Italy Fined for Crucifixes in Schools

European Court Sides With Mother of 2 But Doesn't Order Officials to Remove Crucifixes From Public Schools

(AP)  Europe's court of human rights ruled Tuesday the display of crucifixes in Italian public schools violates religious and education freedoms under the continent's rights convention.

The ruling, which could force a Europe-wide review of the use of religious symbols in government-run schools, rejected arguments by Italy's government that the crucifix was a national symbol of culture, history and identity, tolerance and secularism.

A seven-judge panel sided with a complaint filed by Soile Lautsi, a parent of two children, who claimed public schools in her northern Italian town eight years ago refused to remove the Roman Catholic symbols from classrooms.

The ruling awarded euro5,000 ($7,390) in damages to Lautsi, which the Italian government will pay her. The court, however, did not order Italian authorities to remove the crucifixes and the ruling can still be appealed to the European Court of Human Rights' Grand Chamber of 17 judges.

Lautsi says the crucifix violates the secular principles the public schools are supposed to uphold and the right to offer her children a secular education. Crucifixes are very common in Italian public schools.

"The presence of the crucifix ... could easily be interpreted by pupils of all ages as a religious sign and they would feel that they were being educated in a school environment bearing the stamp of a given religion," the court said in a statement on the case, adding the presence of such symbols could be "disturbing for pupils who practiced other religions or were atheists."

The court added that secular, state-run schools must "observe confessional neutrality in the context of public education," where attendance is compulsory.

It further rejected Italian legal arguments that the crucifix was somehow a symbol that promoted pluralism.

Lautsi filed her case with the Strasbourg-based court in July 2006 after Italy's Constitutional Court dismissed her complaint. Her efforts to rid public schools of religious symbols in a country that is predominantly Roman Catholic has not been welcomed.

In Rome, Nicola Lettieri, who represented Italy in the case, said the government would appeal, according to the ANSA news agency.

Education Minister Mariastella Gelmini protested the decision, saying the crucifix is a "symbol of our tradition."

"In our country nobody wants to impose the Catholic religion, let alone with a crucifix," Gelmini said. But she added that "it is not by eliminating the traditions of individual countries that a united Europe is built."

Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said he wanted to see the ruling and the reasons behind it before commenting.

[askagain]

Some of you simply turn this into a religious debate instead of wondering why a group of nations would agree to give up their sovereignty. There are people who feel that there should be a world government and a world court that would control what have traditionally been independent nations. This may be the trend of the future. We should be discussing these things now before our leaders enter into agreements that take away our right to be an independent nation.

[slownewsday-05]

Well, it is partially a religious debate.

We're not in that group of nations. They decided to be governed together.

And if you're scared of that, you're already in such a situation. It's called the United States.

[askagain]

I have been asking myself why European nations would allow themselves to be subject to a government above them by joining the European Community? Besides economic gain and power in numbers, why would a country volunteering give up its autonomy? Now the Italians are being told that they can not have crosses in their public school classrooms. Hopefully, America will never agree to something like this.

[slownewsday-05]

Exactly - I would hope America wouldn't allow such a thing as religious symbols in public classrooms to happen in the first place these days.

[askagain]

slownewsday-0 What a sense of humor. I was referring to joining something like a world government which could exert control over America. The Italian courts decided that the crosses were not a violation of Italian law. Now they at the mercy of the European Community, its rules, and its courts instead of being sovereign

[slownewsday-05]

"God does not force us to worship him or his Son Jesus but when we turn our backs on them and act like they are something to be ashamed of, God lifts his protection and we are vulnerable."


It surely sounds like you think something is forcing you to worship it.

You may think I am an atheist - I am not. I have my beliefs. They just aren't rooted in blind dogma as yours seem to be.

Any "god" which expects you to telepathically tell it you love it or it turns your back on you isn't real.

.

[hungry1968-17]

by ToolMangler1 November 3, 2009 6:24 PM EST
by hungry1968-17 November 3, 2009 4:59 PM EST



If you don't read it, then you won't be offended.. Right!!!!






No. That won't stop you lunatics from forcing your bizarre rituals and ideologies on those of us that want NO PART OF IT.

[ajapierce]

I wish people would stop this non-sense. Religion offers peace and solice that doesn't come from being greedy and stealing everyone money from them, like the wreck of an economy that things are now.

I am not saying that one religion is better then the other, but Catholics are more open minded and nicer, the same goes for jewish as well. Muslims are also the same, but their education is stuck in the 13th century. Buddist are modern as well and have blended religion with the state seamlessly over 1,000's of years. That is where China is at.

If you want to blame anything for war, it's not religion, it's not man, it's greedy individuals manipulting many other people, r*ping them either phyiscally, mentionally or financially (Bernie Madoff comes to mind here).

Stop the religious bashing, Catholics are still strong in the US, i don't care how many people say Aethsists have there way in this country, until "In God We Trust" comes off of money that Religion will always be a ruling factor.

[slownewsday-05]

Religion causes more war than peace.

It's worthless.


.

[cbs_tom]

It is not religion that causes war, it is the indifference of ideas in man. Man causes wars with or without religion.

[slownewsday-05]

"by ToolMangler1 No
It really would pay you to read Tne prophetic and Apocalyptic books of most religions"


Luckily, your insane beliefs only apply to those who share them.


.

[bubbadubba]

The US turned its back to God and the atheists got their wya through the courts and we got the worst attack on US soil in our history (9/11). God does not force us to worship him or his Son Jesus but when we turn our backs on them and act like they are something to be ashamed of, God lifts his protection and we are vulnerable.
As long as the US worshiped God and openly praised Him, we had it real good and always had help when we needed it.
Go ahead Europe, be stupid and start treating God like something to be ashamed of and see what happens to you.
Italy is the home of the Vatican which represents the largest single Religious denomination on the planet (Catholics)so for Italy to turn their backs on Jesus is about the dumbest most stupid thing I have heard of in a long time. It is like Jews banning the public display of the Star of David in Israel.
As for any atheists who will trash me, I really don't care because I know the truth and your opinions mean absolutely nothing to me and never will and all I hear when you atheists express an opinion is blah blah blah blah.

[hungry1968-17]

Nutbag.

If you love your god so much, then why don't you move to the Vatican or Israel, and quit trying to shove that BS down our throats?

[Kanelbullah]

You know the truth? Europe is getting rid of it's dark history, espacially religion. Religion is bad, wars and conflicts has been faught in the name of it.

[alien_view]

And the anit-christ marches on and on and on

[bubbadubba]

Yep, here comes the world leader, world currency, microchips in every human, and the anti-Christ.
We all knew we were warned about the European Union by prophets and those who predicted the future.
It is all coming true.

[slownewsday-05]

"I was born prior to WWII and know that there is a God. "


Again, your beliefs only apply to those who share them.

Read Luke 17:21.