Vet: U.S. Presence Fuels Afghan Insurgents

State Department Official Resigns in Protest over Afghan "Misadventure"; Calls Justifications for U.S. Bloodshed "Specious"

(CBS)  The White House said Tuesday President Obama is almost finished gathering advice on how to move forward in Afghanistan. A decision is still expected in the coming weeks.

The question is whether to send in thousands of additional troops. But CBS News correspondent David Martin reports one combat veteran and former State Department official says the U.S. should get out of Afghanistan altogether.

Charging that "the United States military presence in Afghanistan greatly contributes to the legitimacy and strategic message of the (Taliban) insurgency," Matthew Hoh became the first U.S. official to resign in protest over the Afghan war.

Read Hoh's resignation letter

"Basically I feel that our strategies in Afghanistan are not pursuing goals that are worthy of sacrificing our young men and women or spending the billions were doing there," Hoh said.

Hoh is a former marine who spent five months working for the State Department in Afghanistan and is by all accounts well respected.

In his letter of resignation, dated Sept. 10, he said, "Our forces, devoted and faithful, have been committed to conflict in an indefinite and unplanned manner that has become a cavalier, politically expedient and pollyannish misadventure."

One of his specific complaints is sending troops to man outposts in the remote valleys of Afghanistan.

"I don't believe we should be conducting combat operations in valleys where the only reason those people are fighting us is because we're occupying them," Hoh said.

Often located on valley floors surrounded by mountains - and able to be resupplied only by helicopter - those outposts are frequently attacked by Taliban from the high ground. Helicopter gun ships have to be called in to repulse the attacks.

This month U.S. troops have pulled out of a half dozen outposts in eastern Afghanistan. The withdrawals were ordered by Maj. Gen. Curtis Scaparotti, who told CBS News it freed up hundreds of soldiers tied down defending terrain where many of the villagers just want to be left alone.

But every time the U.S. abandons an outpost, it's a propaganda victory for the Taliban, who claim they chased the Americans out.

[armyoftwelve]

If we pull out of afghanistan and let it fall to the taliban again we will certainly get attacked again. What then? Are we going to blow them all back to the jurassic age??

The US spent a LOT of maoney there in the 50's, we helped them beat teh soviets.....If this doesn't work out and we get stabbed in the back again maybe it's time to declare war on the pashtun.

[payasyougo]

"Vet: U.S. Presence Fuels Afghan Insurgents"
----

Yeah, well then the L.A. Police presence must fuel local gang violence there.

[AOCGUY]

You got a point there payasyougo. Probably an over simplification but is this analogous to if a murderer flees into a neighborhood and the local gangs don't like the police in their part of town then the police should just stay away? Doesn't make sense on a local level.

[r9119111]

Do yourself a favor and check out the Project for a New American Cenrtury (PNAC) and the Statement of Principles. Notice who signed the Statement of Principles. Again, I say do yourself a favor.

All you have to do is type in PNAC in the address bar, click on the first option and select Statement of Principles.

This is a major reason we are in the mess we are in. We simply have not been minding our own business. There is a better way than the PNAC and that is to learn how to get along with other people and learn to accept their differences. Killing those who do not agree with you is outdated and extremely uncivilized. Time to show our maturity, my friends, childish and uncivilized behavior was the cause of this problem and will create even greater problems if we continue using war as a solution.

[ToolMangler1]

There is no problem with us (the USA) getting along with them, The problem lies with them getting along with us. The only way they will accept that is for 'us' to convert to Islam. If you think I am mistaken, just read their 'Quaran' (Islamic bible)

[r9119111]

Do yourself a favor and check out the Project for a New American Cenrtury (PNAC) and the Statement of Principles. Notice who signed the Statement of Principles. Again, I say do yourself a favor.

All you have to do is type in PNAC in the address bar, click on the first option and select Statement of Principles.

This is a major reason we are in the mess we are in. We simply have not been minding our own business.

[r9119111]

Do yourself a favor and check out the Project for a New American Cenrtury (PNAC) and the Statement of Principles. Notice who signed the Statement of Principles. Again, I say do yourself a favor.

All you have to do is type in PNAC in the address bar, click on the first option and select Statement of Principles.

[thesevenveils]

What Hoh is speaking out against is the polices put in place by Bush and Cheney. But his quitting is no big deal. In the hierarchy of things, this guy is the one who gets coffee and doughnuts, the guy friday.

Knowing that in the Marines the rotation in country is a minimum of 12 months, how, as a Marine was he in Afghanistan for just 5 months. Was he a Fobbit?

[TCMSOLS]

Mexico is not a hornets nest it is a terradactyl's nest, one cannot decamp that AO. As soon as the US place a military foot print inside the country. They will come, it will be a proxy battlefield for all the enemies of America. Talib, al-Qaida, Hizbullah, Iranian irregulars,leftist guerrillas, narco terrorists,corrupt police and military, narco-insurgency so you can include merc's Israeli's, Russians, Americans, Legionnaires etc, not to mention indigenous population that take up arms against a foreign force.. Have to establish three AO's blocking movements, Colombia (bases), Honduras (Coup), Mexico with a buffer zone inside Mexican territory to prevent the borders states from being the primary AO Arizona, California, Texas, New Mexico. With expeditionary operations in the hot spots inside Mexico. It will be a mix of low to mid intensity operations. Because the State Police, ATF, DEA, FBI let things get out of hand if a time comes for sand on the boots their tactical operation para-military groups can be formed into battalions and sent south to bleed with the DOD in combat.

[element51]

Let's assume for a moment that we continue our efforts and things go our way and we are successful in winning the war. Everything looks wonderful and we withdraw our troops. How long would it be before the Taliban would rise again and the bombings would start again? Do any of you actually believe that they will go away for good? Come on, these people what been at each others throats since almost the beginning of time and that will not change. Their thought processes are NOT like ours and we cannot force them to change. They all believe that God wants them to kill in his name and it is impossible to argue logically with that kind of thinking. If we stay they will continue to kill each other and if we leave they will continue to kill each other......so why should we stay?

[rightbehind]

They will hate us no matter if we're there or not. I say stay there and reform that country so the terrorist have no place to hide. As for Iraq we had no business being there to start with.

[element51]

Having lived through the Viet Nam era I can see that the parallels here are amazing. We were led into Viet Nam based on lies and deceptions and while we were told that if we didn't stop the commies there they would take over the whole region the truth was that the big corporations wanted to continue to exploit the natural resources there. Now we are told, "fight them there before we have to fight them here." But again, there is the spectre of big business behind the scenes. We have been there longer than we were in Viet Nam and now there are people wanting to esclate this unnecessary war. The Russians tried for 10 years and ended up going home to a bankrupted country with their tail between their legs. Why should we do a repeat performance? I'm sorry that the Afgan people are living in a country that is so barbaric but killing young Americans will not change that. As I see it we have two options. We can bring our troops home and allow the Afgans to determine their own fate or we can stay and continue to pour billions into a failing effort and keep sending our young men and women to die for nothing other than the greed of big business. There comes a time when common sense must be followed and I think that time is now. Let's bring em home.

[AOCGUY]

element - while I too see parallels with Viet Nam, we started sending advisors to Viet Nam in 1950 although significant escalation didn't occur until 1961 and we didn't leave until around 1975. We have been in Afghanstan for 8 years. Not quite as long as ourr involvement in Viet Nam.

[stn_sage]

Most...if not all...of everything that Mr. Hoh has said...has been said by someone on this site at one time or another!

It was good advice when offered by posters...and it's good advice offered by him!

The points are: will Mr. Obama succumb to this advice...and WHEN?!

Because he's smart enough to know...that it IS the thing to do...so
if he chooses NOT to do it...he reveals to the public who HE really IS!

[Overruled1]

There are several reasons I can come up with to stay in Afghanistan.
1. The Taliban covered for Al Quada.
2. The Taliban kills innocent people if they don't agree with policy of Sharia laws.
3. The Taliban hates all other peoples cultures and will continue to fight and terrorize the nations of the region.
4. The Taliban have influenced Islamic people to hate Americans in other countries.
5. The Taliban policy of keep the women ignorant is inhumane and any attempt to talk them out of this is rejected off hand. They hate smart women.
6. Schools are terrorized by the Taliban.
7. We have a government we back up in Afghanistan who is friendly to us.
8. We need the bases we can get in the area for future conflict resolution.

Can anyone add to the reason list? A Challenge....

How about the reasons to get out? A challenge...

[ToolMangler1]

Going by the "one combat veteran and former State Department officials opinion" we can stop all fighting everywhere in the world simply by going home and comitting suicide. As long as there is a Western ideology anywhere in the world the Taliban and Islamic extremists are 'Honor bound' to eradicate it.
Personally, I will never accept Islam as 'my' religion so that means I must be put to death. Ok!!! Come and get me........

[melchg07]

The Taliban had tried making in roads to destablizing the Pakistani government (who have nukes.)

The Pakistani government only in recent months have actually pushed against the Taliban and such in their own country.....up to this point Pakistan hadn't made much of an effort to pursue the likes of them.

People are calling for us to end the war in Pakistan and Afghanistan when we're finally starting to put our focus there.

For the first 7 years of the war we sent in under 28,000 troops! We sent over 150,000 to IRAQ!~

Finally we've been putting more troops in there. we are now up to nearly half of what we sent to Iraq.

I say send more troops and send more drones and push the Pakitani government to continue to push on their side of the border.....eventually the Taliban will run out of safe areas to run in that part of the world.

[hermitdave]

9---The Taliban is a made up CIA front group as is Al Quada
10--Neither group was even remotely involved in 9/11/01
11--This fake war on terror, is as phony as the fake war on drugs

[stuart-johns2]

12. The Afghani government is less friendly to America than you apparently realize.
13. Karzai's son is on the CIA payroll.
14. How about you think about the totally naieve post you made? A challenge...

[ToolMangler1]

by hermitdave October 27, 2009 9:58 PM EDT
"9---The Taliban is a made up CIA front group as is Al Quada"


TALIBAN ? Its Origin And The Historical Background
By R. Upadhyay

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers32%5Cpaper3136.html

[velma179]

Amen

Bring them HOME!

Let's get our house strong from within.

[Overruled1]

Maybe they should try building the outposts on the tops of hills instead of being targeted from above.

[ToolMangler1]

If we knock the mountains flat, there will be no 'High Ground' to attack us from...

[ToolMangler1]

by finkfust October 28, 2009 5:09 AM EDT
"ToolMangler1 - Level all the mountains in Afghanistan? What a good idea! I wish I was as smart as you."


So do I!!!!!
You can't seem to, recognize sarcasm when you read it.

[hermitdave]

Well Matthew it looks like you were around for not one but both of the illegal Cheney crusades. Moved up to a position where surely you must know that the slaughtering of innocent Afghan women and children was not necessary to capture Osama Bin Laden "DEAD or ALIVE" as the Kenny-Bunk-Port cowboy told the world. In fact just what is your opinion on why Cheney and George lost interest in the Afghan crusade, and decided to help western big oil get back in Iraq? Are you going to write a book? How about calling it American War Criminals I have known and worked for. I wish you luck in any future endeavors and know that you know the limits to which you can go in exposing the criminal activity of the government before and since 9/11/01.

[Solarrays247]

hermitdave October 27, 2009 8:45 PM EDT
Well Matthew it looks like you were around for not one but both of the illegal Cheney crusades. Moved up to a position where surely you must know that the slaughtering of innocent Afghan women and children was not necessary to capture Osama Bin Laden "DEAD or ALIVE" as the Kenny-Bunk-Port cowboy told the world. In fact just what is your opinion on why Cheney and George lost interest in the Afghan crusade, and decided to help western big oil get back in Iraq? Are you going to write a book? How about calling it American War Criminals I have known and worked for. I wish you luck in any future endeavors and know that you know the limits to which you can go in exposing the criminal activity of the government before and since 9/11/01.
********************************************************************
My thoughts exactly, hermitdave! NOW after all this time...Matthew gains "religion"? LOL Good luck Matthew...just wish you would have experienced your insight eight years ago....it would have saved a lot of American and Iraqi lives. But, good luck there, guy.

[faceofus]

I wholeheartedly agree. Bring them home! Our young soldiers have been dying while Obama has been too busy campaigning and playing politics. He has had a request for over two months and now states that he does not want to make a rash decision?! As a democrat I cannot put into words how disturbing this is!

Are we ever going to "win" in Afghanistan?
If so, when are we going to win, and at what cost: people and money?
We're fighting a guerrilla war with regular troops: will this work?

[pleiku1]

"Basically I feel that our strategies in Afghanistan are not pursuing goals that are worthy of sacrificing our young men and women or spending the billions were doing there," Hoh said.

I agree completely with Hoh's statement. This Afghan venture is Vietnam Part II. There are number of very close parallels: corruption; Afghan soldier's unwilling to fight, we being seen as foreign invaders and the list just goes on and on. For those Neocons who will say Afghans wants us to stay because they were told so by the locals, I've heard that, too. When I was in Nam, I heard the same from the Vietnamese - those who made a living working for the US. I suspect as in Nam, US Military can only see the situation from their perspective, more 11Bs, more gunships, more clinics for Afgans. Fighting for "Hearts and Minds"? That was the catch phrase in Nam but in Afghanistan, it wasn't until 8 yrs later that we started saying that. If you are an Afghan Private, combat infantry man, and knew you won't be taken care of if injured or killed and didn't know how your family would fare, would you fight? Taliban knows with absolute certainty, they will be well looked after if killed or injured. Because Allah told him so.

[pleiku1]

"Basically I feel that our strategies in Afghanistan are not pursuing goals that are worthy of sacrificing our young men and women or spending the billions were doing there," Hoh said.

I agree completely with Hoh's statement. This Afghan venture is Vietnam Part II. There are number of very close parallels: corruption; Afghan soldier's unwilling to fight, we being seen as foreign invaders and the list just goes on and on. For those Neocons who will say Afghans wants us to stay because they were told so by the locals, I've heard that, too. When I was in Nam, I heard the same from the Vietnamese - those who made a living working for the US. I suspect as in Nam, US Military can only see the situation from their perspective, more 11Bs, more gunships, more clinics for Afgans. Fighting for "Hearts and Minds"? That was the catch phrase in Nam but in Afghanistan, it wasn't until 8 yrs later that we started saying that. If you are an Afghan Private, combat infantry man, and knew you won't be taken care of if injured or killed and didn't know how your family would fare, would you fight? Taliban knows with absolute certainty, they will be well looked after if killed or injured. Because Allah told him so.

[wdh3007]

He is the first official to resign over Afghanistan but he will not be the last becuase their is no mission for our forces in that country. Why were are forces even there to begin with is the real question perhaps he and many others like him feel the same way.

[tenbobnote]

Thank you Mr. Hoh! Bring them HOME!