KABUL, Oct. 26, 2009
Taliban: We Shot Down U.S. Chopper
14 Americans Die in 2 Afghan Helicopter Crashes; U.S. Military Denies Hostile Fire but Evidence May Back Taliban Claim
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Play CBS Video Video Fourteen Americans Killed In Afghanistan Monday was the deadliest day for American forces in Afghanistan in nearly over years. "Up to the Minute" Military Analyst Col. Mitch Mitchell (Ret.) discusses the situation overseas and whether or not to send more troops.
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File photo of a U.S. Army CH-47 Chinook helicopter. At least 14 Americans died Oct. 26, 2009 when three unknown types of U.S. military helicopters crashed in Afghanistan. (AP)
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Special Report Afghanistan The latest news and analysis on the war in Afghanistan and the debate in Washington over its future.
A U.S. military helicopter crashed Monday while returning from the scene of a firefight with suspected Taliban drug traffickers in western Afghanistan, killing 10 Americans including three DEA agents in a not-so-noticed war within a war.
Four more troops were killed when two helicopters collided over southern Afghanistan, making it the deadliest day for U.S. forces in this country in more than four years.
U.S. military officials insisted neither crash was believed a result of hostile fire, although the Taliban claimed they shot down a U.S. helicopter in the western province of Badghis.
"We don't believe that either one of them were due to enemy fire or hostile intent we are still investigating the cause of it," Col. Wayne Shanks told CBS News correspondent Mandy Clark.
However, the Taliban commander's claim that the helicopter was hit with heavy machine gun fire and a rocket propelled grenade while it was low to the ground seems to be consistent with what happened, says CBS News chief foreign affairs correspondent Lara Logan.
"There were a number of survivors," Logan said. "When a helicopter is hit high up in the air and has a catastrophic crash to the ground, usually there are no survivors. Here there were a significant number of survivors, 12 Afghans and a number of Americans as well."
The U.S. did not say where in western Afghanistan its helicopter went down, and no other aircraft were reported missing.
The survivors were rescued by a second Chinook on the same mission. CBS News has been told that an operation has been mounted to reclaim the bodies of the dead and secure the wreckage.
The second crash took place when two U.S. Marine helicopters - a UH-1 and an AH-1 Cobra - collided in flight before sunrise over the southern province of Helmand, killing four American troops and wounding two more, Marine spokesman Maj. Bill Pelletier said.
One of the dead was Marine pilot Captain Kyle VanDeGiesen, a 29-year-old based at Camp Pendleton in San Diego, reports Clark. A family spokesman said he and his wife were expecting their second child.
The casualties marked the Drug Enforcement Administration's first deaths since it began operations here in 2005. Afghanistan is the world's largest producer of opium - the raw ingredient in heroin - and the illicit drug trade is a major source of funding for insurgent groups.
CBSNews.com Special Report: Afghanistan
The U.S. has decided to target production and distribution networks after programs to destroy poppy fields did little except turn farmers against the American-led NATO mission.
NATO said the helicopter containing the DEA agents was returning from a joint operation that targeted a compound used by insurgents involved in "narcotics trafficking in western Afghanistan."
"During the operation, insurgent forces engaged the joint force and more than a dozen enemy fighters were killed in the ensuing firefight," a NATO statement said.
Eleven Americans, including another DEA agent, and 14 Afghan security troops were wounded in the crash, NATO said.
Military spokeswoman Elizabeth Mathias said hostile fire was unlikely because the troops were not receiving fire when the helicopter took off. She said troops had been rushed to the crash site to determine the cause.
The crash came less than a week after a U.N. report found that the drug trade is enabling the Taliban to make more money now than when they ruled Afghanistan before the U.S. invasion in 2001. The DEA sent more agents to Afghanistan this year to take part in military operations against insurgents who use drug smuggling to raise funds for their war against NATO and its Afghan allies.
It was the heaviest single-day loss of life since June 28, 2005, when 19 U.S. troops died, 16 of them aboard a Special Forces MH-47 Chinook helicopter that was shot down by insurgents.
U.S. forces also reported the deaths of two other American service members Sunday: one in a bomb attack in the east, and another who died of wounds sustained in an insurgent attack in the same region. The deaths bring to at least 47 the number of U.S. service members who have been killed in October.
This has been the deadliest year for international and U.S. forces since the 2001 invasion to oust the Taliban. Fighting spiked around the presidential vote in August, when 51 U.S. soldiers died that month - the deadliest for American forces in the eight-year war.
Afghanistan is a punishing environment for helicopters - this month alone the U.S. Army says it has lost six other helicopters - five to crashes, one to enemy fire, Clark reports.
All of this comes as U.S. forces battle a steady erosion of Afghan public support, Clark reports. For the past two days, nationwide protests have been held against U.S. troops accused of burning the Koran. It's an accusation U.S. forces deny and blame the Taliban for whipping up anti-American sentiment.
President Barack Obama mourned 14 Americans killed Monday and told a military audience he will not be hurried as he evaluates whether to alter U.S. strategy in the war.
"I will never rush the solemn decision of sending you into harm's way. I won't risk your lives unless it is absolutely necessary," Obama said during a visit to Naval Air Station Jacksonville in Florida.
Mr. Obama is debating whether to send tens of thousands more troops to the country to curb the burgeoning Taliban-led insurgency. Doubts about bolstering the U.S. force grew after widespread fraud marred the Aug. 20 presidential election, raising doubt whether the U.S. and its NATO allies had a reliable partner in the fight against the militants.
Afghan officials scheduled a runoff election Nov. 7 between President Hamid Karzai and challenger Abdullah Abdullah after U.N.-backed auditors threw out nearly a third of the incumbent's votes, dropping him below the 50 percent threshold required for a first-round win in the 36-candidate field.
Abdullah complained Monday that there were no assurances that the November vote would be fairer than the first balloting. He called for the head of the government's Karzai-appointed election commission chairman, Azizullah Lodin, to be replaced within five days, saying he has "no credibility."
Lodin has denied allegations of bias in favor of Karzai, and the election commission's spokesman has already said Lodin cannot be replaced by either side.
Another flawed election would cast doubt on the wisdom of sending in more U.S. troops.
With less than two weeks to go until the vote, disagreements have emerged between the U.N. and the Afghans on how to conduct the balloting.
Lodin said the commission hopes to open all 23,960 polling stations from the first round. The U.N. wants to open only 16,000 stations to cut down on the number of "ghost polling stations" that never opened but were used to stuff ballot boxes.
Meanwhile, security forces in Kabul fired automatic rifles into the air for a second day Monday to contain hundreds of stone-throwing university students angered over the alleged desecration of Islam's holy book, the Quran, by U.S. troops during an operation two weeks ago in Wardak province. Fire trucks were also brought in to push back protesters with water cannons. Police said several officers were injured in the mayhem.
U.S. and Afghan authorities have denied any such desecration and insist that the Taliban are spreading the rumor to stir up public anger. The rumor has sparked similar protests in Wardak and Khost provinces.
© MMIX, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Add a Comment See all 89 Comments
- Human Nature, very simple, yet amazing. We construct these 'high-pholutin' social systems and judicial structures as if to bestow nobility upon our politicians and leaders. Yet their behaviours are always purely motivated by simple human nature.
Think about it, rogues, terrorists, badmen have ruined countless human lives in Darfur, Kosovo, etc. How many U.S and/or NATO troops you see over there fighting for Democracy & human Rights ?
It's all about the O.I.L.
Dont worry though, when Obama's energy plan comes into fruition you will be hard pressed to find any American civilian in IRAN/IRAQ/AFGHANISTAN et. al.
The U.S wont need them anymore and they can fight and kill each other as much as they want then.
Obama is'nt a military man so don't expect a 'military' solution from him. He is though a tactician and highly intelligent. - Reply to this comment
- Taliban: We Shot Down U.S. Chopper,With the 600 stinger missiles you gave us 30 yrs ago....GOTCHA....
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- AOCGUY - Oh really? So when you attacked Afghanistan illegally and for no good reason, it was THEIR fault was it?
If there was an offer by Afghanistan to turn Bin Laden over to a country where he would get a fair trial (which we now know wouldn't have happened in the USA), why was it refused and a massive invasion was launched instead?
...... and Bin Laden didn't claim responsibility for 9/11 until 2004, so evidence of his guilt WAS required. I think you knew that very well, but just like jefleshman you are a liar.
You need to come to terms with reality and stop repeating the same lies and excuses the Bush administration gave you. - Reply to this comment
- off course they shut the helicopter down. The US always downplays their enemies as much as they can.
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- Think of all great training our pilots are getting over there. I mean this is actual combat training that we can't duplicate anywhere. It's a little dangerous but hey, that's what war is all about. You can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs.
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- This story can't be true. After all, Bush Jr. told us all that the Taliban has ceased to exist.
"And as a result of the United States military, Taliban no longer is in existence. And the people of Afghanistan are now free."
George Bush
Sept. 2004
http://web.archive.org/web/20040927-re_/http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/09/20040927-4.html - Reply to this comment
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- vietnamwar,
If the Taliban had ceased to exist, they wouldn't be in Afghanistan right now. Think about it. The passenger pigeon ceased to exist. How many are out there flying today?
- by salmoc44 October 26,
Taliban is there that why our general request more troops but Obma saidno...Thnink about it, remember your commander and chief have no experience what so ever think about it.
- vietnamwar,
- <<<I forget Mr Obama just win a Nobel Peace Prize so he can't do any thing ....heh heheh ehehehehehehheh>>>>
So you think the deaths of our troops is something funny? - Reply to this comment
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- So you think the deaths of our troops is something funny?
under Obama watch there more to come ....heheh heheheh
- So you think the deaths of our troops is something funny?
- Note the drug companies depend on Afghanistan for cheap ingredients for their "opium pills" like Oxycontin (the pill pop of choice by right wing radio hosts and the wealthy).
Almost all of the ingredients come from that part of the world. - Reply to this comment
- I forget Mr Obama just win a Nobel Peace Prize so he can't do any thing ....heh heheh ehehehehehehheh
- Reply to this comment
- Taliban: We Shot Down U.S. Chopper
So what are we waiting for Mr Obama, I said send in 20 Predators and B52's for carpet bomb eh...... - Reply to this comment
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- [So what are we waiting for Mr Obama, I said send in 20 Predators and B52's for carpet bomb eh...... ]
how about we bomb kabul and defoliate the mountains with agent orange ... wasn't it this that won the vietnam war?
- [So what are we waiting for Mr Obama, I said send in 20 Predators and B52's for carpet bomb eh...... ]
- [The U.S. has decided to target production and distribution networks after programs to destroy poppy fields did little except turn farmers against the American-led NATO mission.]
pay them twice as much to grow corn ... or soybeans ... or aparagus ... or banannas ... or string beans ... or nothing at all.
it would be cheaper in the long run. - Reply to this comment
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- Your idea sounds reasonable until one realizes the Taliban are acting like a Mexican mafia and have a gun to the heads of the farmer's family if he does not cooperate.
The Taliban is acting as both a criminal and a terrorist element in this country.
What is curious is why is the DEA involved? Was the DEA working undercover as drug lords trying to understand the distribution network?
- Excellent questions about a heart-breaking story. Or why not just get US Big Pharma in there to pay the indigent farmers for the opiate crops? And was the missle what we sold under Reagan?
- [Your idea sounds reasonable until one realizes the Taliban are acting like a Mexican mafia and have a gun to the heads of the farmer's family if he does not cooperate.
The Taliban is acting as both a criminal and a terrorist element in this country.]
the 'taliban' are inidginous afghanis who are excercising dominance to control a black market. if wasn't the 'taliban' it would be someone else ... this is the nature of a black market ... wherever they exist.
replace the black market with a legitimate one. offer more for a legitimate crop than that for the illegitmate one. until this is done you're not going to stop it ... unless of course the dea applies their hugely successful stategy on drugs they've used in the us.
- Your idea sounds reasonable until one realizes the Taliban are acting like a Mexican mafia and have a gun to the heads of the farmer's family if he does not cooperate.
- When we "win" what will we actually "win"?
by liberalme October 26, 2009 4:18 PM EDT
All the heroin that you can snort, shoot & smoke. Spoils of war!!!
Too bad we didn't invade France. At least we would have gotten some good wine & cheese. - Reply to this comment
- How many more Iraqis, Afghanis, and Pakistanis will die at the hands of these insidious simeons? Barack Obama should face reality. Baghdad, Kabul, and Islamabad will secure this region with technology, not sacrificed Americans. Children by the thousands were murdered there. Obama cares more about his OPEC politics than justice.
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- you are a liar and most probably a republican, I have never met an honest one.
NOW, please count all the children and the unborn ones, and their mothers killed by american bombs,
how many villages do you think you have napalmed out of existence???
You are a clown and a fool if you believe any of the US propaganda.
- you are a liar and most probably a republican, I have never met an honest one.
- Some people blame Obama for not stopping the war.It is entirely out of target.He himself cannot do much.Just go back and see his reaction on Israelis' bombing in Gaza,you can see that he disagrees with the genocide there,but he is forcing himself to say what is good for Israel.Or his AIPAC appearence,he simply mustn't say anything against Israel.And you guys call yourselves free?
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- Regardless of the bad strategy for the past 9 years now...and who is to blame, the WINNING strategy involves not only removing the threat, but increasing the strength of the Afghan government to exert control.
THAT is not necessarily democracy or nation-building, and while we may want some semblance of a democratic process for the people, it may not exist for the diversity and conflicting expectations of the Afghan ethnic groups that are simply trying to exist and survive both political upheavals and military incursions into their living space. - Reply to this comment
- Newsflash- Afghanistan is not Vietnam. We need to get over that mindset that every battle is a repeat of Vietnam. If Taliban take control, it will be another well established training camp. They don't train in Saudi Arabia. They'll train in Afghanistan where there is a well established money source-poppies. Yes without Afghanistan they'll train somewhere else. That will eventually need to be minimized. This is not a war that has a finite end game. As long as these people plot to destroy us, we cannot allow them to train anywhere. It is the nature of the enemy. Fanatics who will destroy anyone to die as mayrtrs need to be stopped at every turn. THe US has a short attention span And minimizing the danger is a bad habit we have which can lead to dropping out guard. Remember just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
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- Clearly they were shot down.
If not, wow, total incompetence by our pilots. - Reply to this comment
- We need to get out of the business of fighting other people's wars. Our military should exist for the sole purpose of protecting the United States of America from within, and our borders. We wind up killing and maiming thousands of American men and women for...what? I was a medic in Vietnam and saw hundreds maimed and die for nothing!
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- What I can't understand is thinking that by being in Afghanistan we are somehow preventing another 9/11. This makes no sense, the 9/11 attackers were Saudis, with no connection to Afghanistan. A 9/11 operation can be planned anywhere, at any time. We might as well occupy Afghanistan to cure cancer. For every "insurgent" we kill, his brothers, uncles, nephews, etc. will join some 9/11 style plot for revenge. It makes no sense at all. We're just getting Americans killed for nothing.
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- If you will think back to the autumn of 2001, the USG requested the Afghan Govt (re Taliban) arrest and turn over for prosecution, Bin Laden and his cronies. The Taliban repeatedly refused. It was only then that the USG opted to enter Afghanistan univited in, what has turned out to be, a failed attempt to capture Bin Laden. Now I will agree our mission has evolved into something no one ever envisioned, the reason for going in was valid.
- AOCGUY - I've pointed out to you before that you are wrong about that. The Taliban in Kabul tried to negotiate but Rumsfeld refused to do so. You know about the PNAC and you know why.
The reason for going in was NOT valid or legal, because it was regime change and so did not have UN support.
- And the Saudis have been educating, training and funding the Taliban for decades. That is why al Qaeda was making Afghanistan their little country getaway.
- The UN and 99% of the world's governments did not recognize the Taliban as the legitimate governing body of Afghanistan.
Still to this day the Taliban does not bat an eye at their murdering of little girls trying to go to school.
- finkfust - Mullah Omar only offered to discuss the "possibility" of turning Bin Laden over to a neutral country that would not in-turn extradite him to the US, after OEF had already started, and that offer was contingent upon the US stopping the attack and then providing proof of Bin Laden's guilt - even though Bin Laden himself claimed resposnibility. Bush's resposnse was turn over Bin Laden and we will discuss the possibility of ceasing combat operations.
Omar could have saved himself and his country alot of grief had he not refused the US' request prior to the onset of hostilities.
- 14 U.S. Dead in Afghan Chopper Crashes .......11 U.S. Troops, 3 Civilians Die in Separate Incidents; Victims Reportedly Include DEA Agents.
Some people on the Forum don't seem to understand that Our President (BO) wants to make it perfectly clear that he is furious, appalled, and angry that something like this has happened. That should just about do it. - Reply to this comment
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- [Some people on the Forum don't seem to understand that Our President (BO) wants to make it perfectly clear that he is furious, appalled, and angry that something like this has happened. That should just about do it. ]
this is all true ... but at least he didn't say this from his fake ranch just after 'clearing some brush' while on vacation for a month.
- [Some people on the Forum don't seem to understand that Our President (BO) wants to make it perfectly clear that he is furious, appalled, and angry that something like this has happened. That should just about do it. ]
The road ahead in Afghanistan, and the crucial decision Obama faces.
