Sweat Lodge Guru "Abandoned" Participants

Dr. Who Participated in Arizona Spiritual Retreat, Says James Arthur Ray Wouldn't Let People Leave

(CBS)  Last week, nearly two dozen people were hospitalized after participating in a retreat at a Sedona, Ariz., sweat lodge, and three people died.

The sweat lodge ceremony was part of a $9,000 per person retreat run by spiritual guru James Arthur Ray.

Dr. Beverley Bunn, an orthodontist from Texas, was one of the participants at the retreat. She spoke with "The Early Show"'s Harry Smith this morning, telling him that Ray had "abandoned" them, refusing to let anyone leave the sweat lodge while the door was closed.

"If the door was closed, you couldn't leave," she said. "If the door was open, you could leave. But the fifth round, a woman passed out and she was taken out. At the sixth round, they'd said that she passed out, she isn't breathing, but they yelled it out and stuff and by the time that they had actually said that and announced it, the door was closed. No one can leave when the door is closed," Bunn said on The Early Show.

Bunn said that when she finally left the sweat lodge she could see several people lying unconscious on the ground outside. Some had mucus coming out of their noses and mouths; their eyes were rolled back in their heads.

Sweat Lodge Families Speak
Sweat Lodge Horror Eyewitness

Bunn began putting people into teams to take care of one another. Her roommate at the retreat, Kirby Brown, was getting chest compressions. She later died.

Since the horrific events last week, they have heard little from James Arthur Ray.

"We never saw James Ray ever again and he's never contacted any one of us," Bunn said. "He doesn't know what some of us are going through."

[KateH1]

James A Ray is a coward, lacking in the basics of human compassion! Who leaves the scene of such devistation?

The family of Kirby Brown was on Larry King tonight. After hearing what they had to say, I hope that Ray is prosecuted to the full extent of the law! Ray called the family of Kirby Brown, through his tears he talked about his loss, his pain. How selfish and self centered can he be!! How dare he! He also lied to the family telling them that he is working with the authorities to help them resolve how this happened. So far, Ray has refused to talk to authorities, yet he continues his seminars! He also told the family that he has sent a donation to a surfer charity in Kirby's name....to date, there is no record of Ray doing this.

Last but not least, Ray sent the family "A Gift" of $5,000. Half of what Kirby paid Ray to die in his hands! Ultimate greed! A slap in the face to this family!

Anyone who pays to listen to this guy is a fool! I hope that he is sued by everyone that attended this event, all were harmed! I also hope that he is prosecuted to the full extent of the law!

[missme4]

If you allow yourself to be steamed alive like a lobster, you deserve it. When will america stop trying to protect the stupid?

[MarkNS]

Darwin award contenders; the lot of them.

[karmabites]

Keep in mind these people were also deprived of food and water for 36 hours prior to going into the sweat lodge. They were weak and dehydrated even after their breakfast. I think J Ray get's off watching how far people will go for him.

[missme4]

Keep in mind those people were not held in cells preventing them from leaving. In fact, they each paid $9000 to be treated like that. I would be more than happy to starve and bake any dumb american for $8500. That's a $500 savings!

[Goog123]

Wow...tough crowd here! You guys, try to have SOME compassion! This is HELL on earth for these people. Yes, they were probably a little "lost" and unfortunately they put all their trust in another human being...who is just human. However, he betrayed them by brainwashing them, starving them, then basically trying to get them to hallucinate so they thought they had an "experience" so they would come back for more. He just wants their money and he's probably an egotistical narcissist who feels like their God. But, when someone so captivating and persuasive brainwashes you...its hard take a step back to see what's happening! These poor people were not in their right minds to begin with after being starved and dehydrated for days. And, that's exactly where he wanted them...compromised so he could take control of them!! This guy WILL go to prison. He directed these people to stay in the tent and stopped medical personnel from saving lives. Have any of you seen the laws in Arizona...not a place I'd want this to go down. What makes him worse...a self-help guru that doesn't offer emotional support?

[missme4]

There should be no compassion for stupid people paying large sums to do stupid stuff. Let the stupid die.

[yerhumps]

James Arthur Ray is the leader of a destructive "self improvement" cult. There are a LOT of similar self help "gurus" out there and this is the way they behave. They are selfish ego maniacs. They insist on abject obedience from their followers. They are indifferent to the care and dignity of their followers. They enjoy having the power of life and death. They are almost always frauds. They are the worst examples of self improvement you could possibly find. I am so sorry for his victims. They obviously wanted nothing but the best for themselves and the world. I can only hope that Ray does some prison time and that he and his criminally abusive "workshops" are put permanently out of business.

[saddened56]

Courageous of you, Dr., to come forward. Looks like you are understandably still in shock. Hope you will be able to put this awful tragedy, including the rape of your trust in the man with big promises, behind you with time; that you will come to know that what Mr. Ray claimed he had to offer was inside of you all along. I am certain you did your best and made a difference in these harrowing circumstances. God bless you in your journey.

As to those who feed on the dark energy of judgment and would stone the doctor with their words, the words of a real master apply: He/she who has never trusted another who have betrayed them; he/she who has never been beset by tragedy; he/she who has never been in an emergency yet not recognized it until it was upon them; he/she who has never been human; let him/her cast the first stone.

[rstew4724]

I wont say that I began to know what they went through at the Sweat Lodge,but I am going to say that I saw Dr. Bunn on The Early Show this morning and I just do not feel that she was as broken up as she would have us believe. It seems more staged than real.

[brin366]

Discouraging to see so many nasty and ignorant comments from people who don't have a clue about at the very least how a sweat lodge works, and more importantly the value or difficult process of achieving awareness, understanding in this very complicated world. I suppose the critics answer to happiness is - just buy more stuff!

[wertsad]

The thing is that all these poor lost sheep were there to learn how to take life by the horns and mold it to their will, overcome obstacles and become spiritually enhanced (and wealthy) in the process.

Since they couldn?t even muster the gumption to open the door and leave while they were dying, I guess they all flunked eh?

[get_down]

"The sweat lodge ceremony was part of a $9,000 per person retreat run by spiritual guru James Arthur Ray." Soooo in the current economic woes, there actually existed folks who're whole-heartedly willing to pay 9K to experience this "Spiritual Experience" and now they are having their 15 minutes of limelight? Hummmm - ain't got absolutely no sympathy from me! As far as I'm concerned every one of them paid 9K received their SE from the guru James Arthur Ray! They got what they paid for.

[rondivoo]

only thing missing was the kool-aid

[rondivoo]

These people were probably thinking, "I paid $9,000 for this and I'm gonna stay in here and get my money's worth even it kills me."

[Hosheen]

James Ray is, and always has been, a phony, con man, and scam artist. Why he is not in prison is a mystery to me. Why someone he has taken for so much money hasn't hunted him down and beaten him into a bloody bag of broken bones is a bigger mystery.

But, if you're stupid enough to be taken in by such an obvious charlatan, you're probably too stupid to know that you've been taken. One of the first rules of these fakers is "the mark has to keep his con," at least until it's too late for them to do anything about it.

[Skruffy1]

Hmmm... 300 people at $9,000 each comes to $2.7 million. This "guru" is obviously a master at getting rich, but it appears he knows squat about sweat lodges, human physiology, etc. This whack-job is going to be soooooooo sued.

[excoachken]

Agreed, the Loony Neo-cons were already in a crazy Church/Cult of their own with Pat Robertson and Ted Haggerd.

[massey24]

I gaurantee you there were no conservatives in that tent. All LOONEY LIBERALS. All trusting the "expert". When are people going to realize that most PHD's don't have enough sense to come in out of the rain. (or in this case, leave a burning building)

[excoachken]

CULT........CULT......CULT......CULT

[dr_kharrell]

Victim blaming is common after tragic events. It is a way for people to feel safe. If you can find something about the vitim that you feel "caused" their tragedy, then you think, "if I just avoid doing that I'll be safe". Unfortunately, victim blaming causes the people involved more harm. I caution everyone to think about what they say and write about the people involved in this tragedy. Is your intention to hurt them more? Do you really want to be cruel? If not, please refrain from judging the participants in this awful experience. If your intention is to hurt them, then perhaps it is time to work on your self rather than focusing on other people so much.

My understanding is that the participants trusted Mr. Ray and went to the retreat in an attempt to better themselves and enhance their spirituality. Hardly, a goal to be criticized. Who among us has not put our trust in someone only later to have that trust betrayed? Unfortunately, things went very wrong and resulted in the death of 3, many still suffering physically, and I would imagine mental/emotional truama for all. Unless you were there, it is not fair to judge the folks who participated. We have no idea how strong the "hold" that Mr. Ray had on the people involved. A charismatic leader can greatly influence people. If this is not kept in check, the influence can be dangerous.

My suggestion is that we all find some compassion for the victims in this event and hold thoughts/prayers for their healing. Instead of blaming the victims, let's work together and learn from this event so that perhaps we can all be safer in the future.

Kirsten Harrell, Psy.D.
Psychologist

[CompletelyFrustrated]

I have a real hard time finding compassion when a doctor albeit and orthodontist did not have the guts to do something about what was happening.

Enhancing spirituality does not include baking a human being alive! Work together and learn? You're kidding right?? Exposing the human body to excessive heat causes dehydration (there are a lot of related symptoms and illnesses affiliated with this) and possibly (in this case definitely) death! This information is publicly disseminated every summer, this fact does not change just because it is October - heat is heat, dehydration is still life threatening!!

[rondivoo]

how nice you are....

but,

we are supposed to rave and rant on these blogs! that's why we get on here... no fun being 'nice'

[jamesrandydov]

your comment is a breath of fresh air in this hideaous media pigpile.

[rondivoo]

There is no one else to blame but the "victims" .... these people are terribly weak-minded individuals with absolutely NO initiative to think for themselves. That is why they were looking for a "savior" in the first place.

[MarkNS]

Umm...they did cause their tragedy. They believed a bunch of woo-woo from a charlatan then sat around a sweat lodge and essentially dehydrated to death when all they had to do was open the door and leave. Of course, it's their own fault. Anyone who can get $9000 together for this type of hokum should have enough smarts not to fall for this crap. They probably believe in angels too. I bet most of them watch Oprah.

[be_fair]

Thank you Dr. H for sharing your smart, insightful comment.

Surprised by the comments I've seen, I've been searching for some "reasonable" remarks. There are so few. I'm shocked at the number of hateful, hurtful -- and completely ignorant -- comments people have to share about this situation.

Is it so terribly hard for others to have enough empathy to try to imagine that these people -- while it's true they did not verify the man's credentials, but perhaps trusted him by reputation, his success and his positive media attention -- felt an implied sense of safety in this environment based on (if nothing else) that Mr. Ray has been hosting this very same event every year for many years and no one had ever died from it?

This event was known to be very difficult -- and was well promoted as such -- so proper judgement in measuring 'just how difficult is the appropriate amount,' would have been impossible for people in such an overheated state. Add to that, being coached and "encouraged" to continue [any kind of exercise or training]; thus it would also be quite natural to trust your coach and his process (a leader in whom you assume has some form of training, valid experience and history of success with this very same event). I don't imagine the victims believed they were attending a true, proper Native ceremony (which we all know it was not). The retreat was not marketed as such. If the victims wanted a true Native experience, they were all likely savvy enough to know how to seek out that kind of experience. They thought they were attending a James Ray event - his own take on this tradition - one in which he'd had positive, tried-and-true experience and much success. They believed they were safe.

If you try just a little, you might also imagine that while being led [in any kind of guided event - by anyone] where you become overheated like these people did, it would be impossible to think clearly. Your mind would drift, you lose reason, become very lethargic. While you may want to run for the door, physically you can't quite sit up, think straight or roll yourself outta there before it was too late for some. Period. Not in your right mind under these conditions. None of us would be. We'd all be disoriented to some extent.

It is not fair to presume these people should have been able to reason and function properly. All the while being verbally challenged (not forced) to remain -- from a man who has survived this same event many times. Perhaps you'd figure you're so exhausted, you might just pass out for a little while, too tired to get up right now in the heat... you'll just wait awhile like he tells you to do. Our mind plays tricks under such conditions. Haven't you ever heard how people who get lost or trapped outdoors in freezing temperatures often decide they want to lay down in a snowdrift for just a short nap? When you want that nap and you're not feeling so cold anymore - it means you're freezing to death! Does this make you a stupid idiot? Of course not. Honestly! How can people be so cruel? Have the people [who are so angry at these victims] never been guilty of ever attending any kind of function or sport challenge event in which included physical or strenuous exercise -- without personally checking that event host's credentials before attending?

I once casually took a guided group hike/trek with my mother and our friends on an island led by a friendly native and could certainly have wound up in much danger in the jungle. We experienced unbelievable narrow cliff ledges and many dangers of which we had no idea we signed up for. We all returned safely, but it's true - we did not have a report on the outcome experience of this hike from those who'd completed it, nor details of Moko our host's personal background, before we agreed to go on a guided walking jungle trek. Haven't we all done something in our lives where we could've been killed, didn't realize the dangers, and are just lucky we ended up safely? We should be thankful we're safe, and sad for those who aren't in this situation.

If we don't have natural empathy we should make an effort to get some for these people. These victims are not idiots. It is truly unfair to treat them as such.

KKS

[docpeter1953]

Just so as I understand this. These "free-thinking", "mind expanding" adults couldn't leave the sweat lodge if the door was closed, no matter whether they felt sick or not. Was the door locked and secured from the outside so it couldn't be opened?

And now these "free-thinking" adults are saying, "We never saw James Ray ever again and he's never contacted any one of us," Bunn said. "He doesn't know what some of us are going through."

"Dr. Beverley Bunn, an orthodontist from Texas, was one of the participants at the retreat." This a supposedly educated woman, she had at least 3 - 4 years of premedical training prior to going to dental school and then on to specialize in orthodontics. Certainly this free-thinking adult should understand how I, as a juror, would not question the actions of Mr. Ray as much as I would question the actions of the participants.

These folks were adults and were supposedly able to free think, I would have freely thought I am opening that GD door because I am ill, just try to stop me.

[CompletelyFrustrated]

I would definite cancel all future appointments with this wacko!

Just what we need a so-called Doctor thinking dehydration is healthy!

[dblbar1]

"We never saw James Ray ever again and he's never contacted any one of us," Bunn said. "He doesn't know what some of us are going through."

They haven't seen or been contacted by him because he's probably sitting on a deserted beach somewhere, sipping on a mint julip, thanks to their $$ Do they really expect to hear from him? C'mon!

[April_402]

Actually, he has probably been instructed by his attorneys not to contact them because any contact or apology would be presented by opposing attorneys as an admission of guilt.

Kinda like how insurance companies tell you that if you ever get in a car accident, don't say anything other than exchanging contact information. Jumping out of your car and saying "OMG I'm so sorry!" is considered an acceptance of fault.