Cheney to Obama: "Do What it Takes to Win"
Former Vice President Dick Cheney on Wednesday night accused the White House of dithering over the strategy for the war in Afghanistan and urged President Barack Obama to "do what it takes to win."
"Make no mistake. Signals of indecision out of Washington hurt our allies and embolden our adversaries," Cheney said while accepting an award from a conservative national security group, the Center for Security Policy.
Cheney disputed remarks by White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel that the Bush administration had been adrift concerning the war in Afghanistan and that the Obama administration had to start from the beginning to develop a strategy for the 8-year-old war.
To the contrary, Cheney said, the Bush administration undertook its own review of the war before leaving office and presented its findings to Obama's transition team.
CBSNews.com Special Report: Afghanistan
CBS Evening News: The Road Ahead
"They asked us not to announce our findings publicly, and we agreed, giving them the benefit of our work and the benefit of the doubt," Cheney said. The strategy Obama announced in March bore a "striking resemblance" to what the Bush administration review had found, the vice president said.
Emanuel told CNN on Sunday that the decision regarding what to do in Afghanistan is more complex than whether to send more troops. The U.S. commander there, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, has reportedly asked for as many as 40,000 additional troops to combat the Taliban insurgency and al Qaeda fighters.
"When you go through all the analysis, it's clear that basically we had a war for eight years that was going on, that's adrift, that we're beginning at scratch, and just from the starting point, after eight years," Emanuel said.
Emanuel on CBS' "Face the Nation"
Cheney said the Obama administration seems to be pulling back and blaming others for its own failure to implement the strategy it had embraced earlier in the year.
"The White House must stop dithering while America's armed forces are in danger," the former vice president said. "It's time for President Obama to do what it takes to win a war he has repeatedly and rightly called a war of necessity."
Cheney criticized Obama's decision to drop plans begun in the Bush administration for missile defense interceptors in Poland and a radar site in the Czech Republic, calling the move "a strategic blunder and a breach of good faith." The administration said it will instead pursue a higher-tech system that is also more cost-effective.
"Our Polish and Czech friends are entitled to wonder how strategic plans and promises years in the making could be dissolved just like that with apparently little if any consultation," he said. "President Obama's cancellation of America's agreements with the Polish and Czech governments is a serious blow to the hopes and aspirations of millions of Europeans."
Cheney said those who try to placate Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and accede to his wishes will get nothing in return but trouble.
AP "Make no mistake. Signals of indecision out of Washington hurt our allies and embolden our adversaries," Cheney said while accepting an award from a conservative national security group, the Center for Security Policy.
Cheney disputed remarks by White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel that the Bush administration had been adrift concerning the war in Afghanistan and that the Obama administration had to start from the beginning to develop a strategy for the 8-year-old war.
To the contrary, Cheney said, the Bush administration undertook its own review of the war before leaving office and presented its findings to Obama's transition team.
CBSNews.com Special Report: Afghanistan
CBS Evening News: The Road Ahead
"They asked us not to announce our findings publicly, and we agreed, giving them the benefit of our work and the benefit of the doubt," Cheney said. The strategy Obama announced in March bore a "striking resemblance" to what the Bush administration review had found, the vice president said.
Emanuel told CNN on Sunday that the decision regarding what to do in Afghanistan is more complex than whether to send more troops. The U.S. commander there, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, has reportedly asked for as many as 40,000 additional troops to combat the Taliban insurgency and al Qaeda fighters.
"When you go through all the analysis, it's clear that basically we had a war for eight years that was going on, that's adrift, that we're beginning at scratch, and just from the starting point, after eight years," Emanuel said.
Emanuel on CBS' "Face the Nation"
Cheney said the Obama administration seems to be pulling back and blaming others for its own failure to implement the strategy it had embraced earlier in the year.
"The White House must stop dithering while America's armed forces are in danger," the former vice president said. "It's time for President Obama to do what it takes to win a war he has repeatedly and rightly called a war of necessity."
Cheney criticized Obama's decision to drop plans begun in the Bush administration for missile defense interceptors in Poland and a radar site in the Czech Republic, calling the move "a strategic blunder and a breach of good faith." The administration said it will instead pursue a higher-tech system that is also more cost-effective.
"Our Polish and Czech friends are entitled to wonder how strategic plans and promises years in the making could be dissolved just like that with apparently little if any consultation," he said. "President Obama's cancellation of America's agreements with the Polish and Czech governments is a serious blow to the hopes and aspirations of millions of Europeans."
Cheney said those who try to placate Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and accede to his wishes will get nothing in return but trouble.
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Out of curiosity why did you inquire about my belief in God?
Sorry didnt see any post, it stayed at 328 for hours, I kept refreashing the screen but nothing showed up. Now we are on page 1, this will help. To catch others up who would like to read the posted I captured the posts below:
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by finkfust October 25, 2009 1:58 PM EDT
Let's use you personally as the example. Why are you a Christian and not a Muslim (or an atheist, or a Buddhist etc.)?
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by jefleshman October 25, 2009 2:11 PM EDT
Fink,
Before we go on a religious discussion where do you stand? Muslim? Christian? etc...so the field is even.
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by finkfust October 25, 2009 2:11 PM EDT
I'm an atheist.
---------------------------
Answer: Because I was raised Roman Catholic, not Muslim, Buddist, Shinto, and so on. I have an appreciation of all religions and find them very similiar in nature.
In my adult life I have gone through many phases and now attend a Methodist Church regularly back home (So far going on 8 years now).
This being said, I have not found an "absolute perfect religion for me".
I still believe the relationship... I have with God... is a personal one;"church" allows for believers in God to come together.
Why do you not believe in any God?
1. I think you're scared to confront the morality of your country's recent actions and your own role in it, aren't you?
2. Are you a mindless drone or a human being?
3. What about your own rules and morality?
4. One last thought - Are the millions of people around the world (including me) who think you and country's recent actions are immoral ALL TOTALLY WRONG? Are they all misinformed or deluded, or perhaps is it you?
-------------------------------------------
Answer 1: Nope not at all. Again, if rules were broken then they should be held accountable; this is not hard to understand.
Answer 2: No, I just understand the complexity of the issues and there is a system in place that if you disagree with something; you have to work in it. (international courts of law are a great example, you may not like it but it is the system in place)
Answer 3: If at anytime as a soldier I believe an order given to me is unlawful(I would not do it - we have that right). If I ever witness unlawful acts I would report it. To date I have not been or witness too anything that I view unlawful
Answer 4: Your not wrong, it is just your point of view. Your point of view seems to be focused on isolated incidents that are already being investigated (thank God we hold ourselves accountable).
You question the use of weapons as we question it, when we employ them. I have no issues with questioning a on scene commanders call. We need to continue to hold ourselves to a higher level of moral code. But leave it to the experts who see all the evidence and do not rely on the media to be an honest source. I trust the investigations. I have faith in the systems in place and know they are not perfect because they are human.
Again, I believe in God, just becuase someone gets away with something on earth does not mean they will fool God. Judgement will be giving, but this judgement is eternal!
Never mind, you obviously can't understand that concept, so let's get to the core of the whole conflict - religion.
Let's use you personally as the example. Why are you a Christian and not a Muslim (or an atheist, or a Buddhist etc.)?
Look here jefleshman, you're not knowledgeable enough to use that kind of argument. Just stick to your own experience and views, and just tell the truth about them!
AOCGUY - I knew that jefleshman would be too stupid to discuss the Bala Baluk massacre, but I thought you would. Sadly I was wrong. You all stick together, even to hide or defend the most appalling crimes.
---------------------------------------
Fink, I just read your comments above. Please tell the government of Afghanistan and the international community you disagree with their findings when they are released.
Everyone but you can understand the thing called the "Fog of War" and acknowledges this incident as a tragedy of war and that the Taliban (not the ANSF nor ISAF) are using and continue to use the citizens as shields. Why are you not questioning them? Do you post on their internet sites as well?
Fortunately we have people that have firsthand knowledge on the situation and review all the evidence that you cannot view; the citizens envolved directly or indirectly interviewed say things that contradict your point of view; others support your point of view so who is correct? I do not discredit their account for it is their own point of view, for whatever reason. Maybe they were outside the threat of the Taliban at the time of these attack, maybe they were safe in their house as the Taliban busted in and demanded sanctuary, shelter and food from others but not them. I do not know but it is their point of view from what they were witness too from their eyes.
You rely on one source to provide your bias point of view; the media that includes the internet. I hope you know there is more out there on many different levels.
Some of us have the privilege and trust to see information the public is not privy to see. This is a fact.
When you see things firsthand, you have an advantage of providing your experience (but is it correct?). I acknowledged in the past and will acknowledge again, 99 other people can witness the same event and you will get 100 versions from the same event. It is just a fact. People are human and have their own perception of what happened based on many factors.
The media, your only source for information, "loves a good STORY". They purposely interview people (looking for things to support their article they want to write - Positive or Negative) and make it sound however they want it to sound. They will take excerpts of interviewed statements and make and twist them into anything they want them to be. This is so to "sensationalize an event" to garner readers and "sell" a story.
Fink the media is a business and their business is to make money and "sell Stories" not facts. If they were truly media they would present the "facts" as they gathered them and let the audience make an opinion. When was the last time you read a Fact (as they know it) story and no opinion added?
When you just keep on doing the same appalling things wrong year after year, and you keep on trotting out the same old excuses about 'fog of war' and 'a few bad apples', etc., what is the inevitable conclusion? It's that YOU ARE LYING.
Besides, it was a question to AOCGUY, as is obvious to anyone with more that 3 brain cells by the word "AOCGUY" at the beginning.
Fink is was a simple cut and paste, and you could not find the article? Wow and you say I am stupid and do not have more than 3 brian cells?
It is easy to question someone else's actions and decisions taken (Hindsight Bias).
But not so easy to say what you would do in the same case (because you cannot 100% simulate the same stress and actions that were going on - you should know this, didn't you claim to be a scientist or something?).
I say again Fink, what would you have done as the ANSF commander to protect your men or as the ISAF commander to protect your men?
And just think you have the knowledge of after the fact on some of the conflicting results. The commanders or the Soldiers didn't have that luxury.
Go ahead give it your best shot. We are all interested on what you would do. Again, you never answer this question, why Fink? Because there is no RIGHT answer - hence the term "fog of war".
May 4, 2009 - Bala Baluk. Would you like to discuss that one? There are many, many more.
Hey Flesh - Don't kill anyone.
Investigators reviewed weapon sight video from the aircraft supporting the coalition rescue of Afghan national security forces in Bala Baluk on May 4 which clearly depicts insurgents entering the buildings which were then targeted in the final strikes of the fight. Combined with audio recordings of the ground commander and air crew conversations the investigators were able to confirm that the insurgents fleeing from the firefight were regrouping in several small rural buildings which were then subsequently destroyed. A review of the physical evidence is inconclusive in determining the exact number of civilian and insurgent casualties. In all, the investigation team estimates that 60-65 Taliban extremists were killed in these engagements, while at least 20-30 civilians may have been killed during the fighting. The investigators continue to attempt to better confirm casualty numbers.
A large number of Taliban fighters, to include non-Afghans, consolidated on Ganj Abad and Grani villages May 3, and demanded payments from villagers. Afghan and coalition troops reported observing at least 300 villagers evacuating the area prior to the fighting. Reports from Afghan officials indicated that the Taliban had executed three former government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan officials. In a joint operation the Afghan national police supported by the Afghan national army went to the village to drive out the Taliban. As the ANP approached the village of Garani they were ambushed by 200-300 Taliban. During the initial ambush two ANP were killed. A total of five ANP officers were killed during the battle. Outmanned and outgunned the Provincial Governor request the coalition Quick Reaction Force.
Once the coalition force arrived, they along with an ANA unit attempted to help the ANP. At this point, the Taliban launched another attack, firing on the ANA and coalition forces. One U.S. Navy Corpsman was shot in the shoulder while attempting to rescue a wounded Afghan soldier and an ANA soldier was shot in the chest as he attempted to charge a Taliban position. In order to rescue the fallen ANA 1st Sergeant who was trapped by heavy Taliban machine gun and RPG fire, the coalition force used close air support by F-18s to suppress the enemy fire from buildings nearby. The coalition Forces and ANA then rushed forward, placed the fallen ANA 1st Sgt. on a stretcher and carried him to safety. The 1st Sgt. was later transported from the battle by medical evacuation helicopter, and due to the bravery of the ANA and coalition soldiers he is expected to make a full recovery. Following this, one B-1 provided fires in coordination with the ground commander on buildings and a tree grove insurgents were firing from or massing in. ANSF and US Forces remained in the area until the next morning and observed the villagers returning after the fighting had ceased.
?We regret the loss of any civilian life,? said Col. Greg Julian, ?and express our condolences to the families who lost loved ones in this fighting with insurgents firing from and regrouping in villagers? homes. We continue to work closely with the Afghan national security forces to bring security and progress to Afghanistan, and to do everything we can to avoid civilian casualties. We strongly condemn the Taliban for their brutality in deliberately targeting and using civilians as human shields.?
This as they say "is the rest of the story"
Fink get a life!
Hey Flesh - Stay safe.
AOCGuy
Thanks for the blessings and wish for safety over here. This is truly the most dangerous time as I am ready to come home.
Sorry had "technical difficulties" over here after I posted, very hard to follow the conversation. I tried to back track as much as I could to see what in the world is going on.
Seems like Fink is trying to use the same old story lines to want to "paint" any airstrike that kills innocents have to be intentional in nature; anyone who has any common sense or understand a grain of tactics can conclude Fink is just trying to "stir" things up and mislead people. Fink will try to use isolated "questionable" incidents (that get investigated) to "prove" a point. It is easy to question things from a computer and use the media as your only source to "know" what really happened. It is easy to be an "Arm Chair" general or commander when you have no clue and any facts on the situation.
Fink has obviously never served and fails to want to understand and improve oneself.
Fink, I hope you question the terrorist about their "direct and planned targets to kill innocents"; Suicide bombers, hasty indirect fire, pressure plate IEDs, kidnappings and murder of civilians and NGOs in Afghanistan and so on. I am proud our forces do not use human shields or put our families at risk. The terrorist will make IEDs in their family's qalat. That is who is as fault Fink. Put the blame where it really lies.
Anyhow, AOC, Joe and many others... I hope we can continue dialogue. I will be checking in quite regularly. It actually makes these last few days go by and I appreciate it.
Administration ran the Karzai Govenment. All the secrets and lies have come to light with Vice President Joe Biden visiting that country. The Taliban is upset with the US because Dick Cheney/Halliburton built a pipeline to steal oil. Notice how the Poppy Plants get larger every year with the US saying and doing nothing. Ask any soldier stationed in Afghanistan and you'll hear what I heard. If you want pure drugs you can get it free in Afghanistan. Cheney ran the US for 8 years while Bush was just holding the title and used for photo ops. It's clear who was really President as Bush has no idea what the Foreign Policy was or is.
Trophies will be awarded for the most insightful and the furthest off topic so everybody goes home a winner.