Cheney to Obama: "Do What it Takes to Win"

Former VP Accuses Administration of "Dithering" Over Afghanistan War Strategy

(AP)  Former Vice President Dick Cheney on Wednesday night accused the White House of dithering over the strategy for the war in Afghanistan and urged President Barack Obama to "do what it takes to win."

"Make no mistake. Signals of indecision out of Washington hurt our allies and embolden our adversaries," Cheney said while accepting an award from a conservative national security group, the Center for Security Policy.

Cheney disputed remarks by White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel that the Bush administration had been adrift concerning the war in Afghanistan and that the Obama administration had to start from the beginning to develop a strategy for the 8-year-old war.

To the contrary, Cheney said, the Bush administration undertook its own review of the war before leaving office and presented its findings to Obama's transition team.

CBSNews.com Special Report: Afghanistan
CBS Evening News: The Road Ahead

"They asked us not to announce our findings publicly, and we agreed, giving them the benefit of our work and the benefit of the doubt," Cheney said. The strategy Obama announced in March bore a "striking resemblance" to what the Bush administration review had found, the vice president said.

Emanuel told CNN on Sunday that the decision regarding what to do in Afghanistan is more complex than whether to send more troops. The U.S. commander there, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, has reportedly asked for as many as 40,000 additional troops to combat the Taliban insurgency and al Qaeda fighters.

"When you go through all the analysis, it's clear that basically we had a war for eight years that was going on, that's adrift, that we're beginning at scratch, and just from the starting point, after eight years," Emanuel said.

Emanuel on CBS' "Face the Nation"

Cheney said the Obama administration seems to be pulling back and blaming others for its own failure to implement the strategy it had embraced earlier in the year.

"The White House must stop dithering while America's armed forces are in danger," the former vice president said. "It's time for President Obama to do what it takes to win a war he has repeatedly and rightly called a war of necessity."

Cheney criticized Obama's decision to drop plans begun in the Bush administration for missile defense interceptors in Poland and a radar site in the Czech Republic, calling the move "a strategic blunder and a breach of good faith." The administration said it will instead pursue a higher-tech system that is also more cost-effective.

"Our Polish and Czech friends are entitled to wonder how strategic plans and promises years in the making could be dissolved just like that with apparently little if any consultation," he said. "President Obama's cancellation of America's agreements with the Polish and Czech governments is a serious blow to the hopes and aspirations of millions of Europeans."

Cheney said those who try to placate Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and accede to his wishes will get nothing in return but trouble.

[jefleshman]

Fink,

Out of curiosity why did you inquire about my belief in God?

[finkfust]

jefleshman - Are you going to reply, or you going to hide from the real issue YET AGAIN? Why don't you just post a few more propaganda links to promote your immoral wars...... that seems to be all you're good for.

[jefleshman]

Fink,

Sorry didnt see any post, it stayed at 328 for hours, I kept refreashing the screen but nothing showed up. Now we are on page 1, this will help. To catch others up who would like to read the posted I captured the posts below:

-------------------
by finkfust October 25, 2009 1:58 PM EDT

Let's use you personally as the example. Why are you a Christian and not a Muslim (or an atheist, or a Buddhist etc.)?
-----------------------
by jefleshman October 25, 2009 2:11 PM EDT
Fink,

Before we go on a religious discussion where do you stand? Muslim? Christian? etc...so the field is even.
---------------------------
by finkfust October 25, 2009 2:11 PM EDT

I'm an atheist.
---------------------------

Answer: Because I was raised Roman Catholic, not Muslim, Buddist, Shinto, and so on. I have an appreciation of all religions and find them very similiar in nature.

In my adult life I have gone through many phases and now attend a Methodist Church regularly back home (So far going on 8 years now).

This being said, I have not found an "absolute perfect religion for me".

I still believe the relationship... I have with God... is a personal one;"church" allows for believers in God to come together.

Why do you not believe in any God?

[jefleshman]

by finkfust October 25, 2009 12:39 PM EDT

1. I think you're scared to confront the morality of your country's recent actions and your own role in it, aren't you?
2. Are you a mindless drone or a human being?
3. What about your own rules and morality?

4. One last thought - Are the millions of people around the world (including me) who think you and country's recent actions are immoral ALL TOTALLY WRONG? Are they all misinformed or deluded, or perhaps is it you?

-------------------------------------------

Answer 1: Nope not at all. Again, if rules were broken then they should be held accountable; this is not hard to understand.

Answer 2: No, I just understand the complexity of the issues and there is a system in place that if you disagree with something; you have to work in it. (international courts of law are a great example, you may not like it but it is the system in place)

Answer 3: If at anytime as a soldier I believe an order given to me is unlawful(I would not do it - we have that right). If I ever witness unlawful acts I would report it. To date I have not been or witness too anything that I view unlawful

Answer 4: Your not wrong, it is just your point of view. Your point of view seems to be focused on isolated incidents that are already being investigated (thank God we hold ourselves accountable).

You question the use of weapons as we question it, when we employ them. I have no issues with questioning a on scene commanders call. We need to continue to hold ourselves to a higher level of moral code. But leave it to the experts who see all the evidence and do not rely on the media to be an honest source. I trust the investigations. I have faith in the systems in place and know they are not perfect because they are human.

Again, I believe in God, just becuase someone gets away with something on earth does not mean they will fool God. Judgement will be giving, but this judgement is eternal!

[finkfust]

You actually didn't answer any of those questions. You seem to have a severe problem understanding the difference between rules and morals. This is probably because like the people of most countries which started wars throughout history you can't conceive that the people who make the rules might be immoral.

Never mind, you obviously can't understand that concept, so let's get to the core of the whole conflict - religion.

Let's use you personally as the example. Why are you a Christian and not a Muslim (or an atheist, or a Buddhist etc.)?

[finkfust]

By the way, I should just point out that the USA has refused to join or support your "great example" of the International Criminal Court!!!!!

Look here jefleshman, you're not knowledgeable enough to use that kind of argument. Just stick to your own experience and views, and just tell the truth about them!

[jefleshman]

Fink,

Before we go on a religious discussion where do you stand? Muslim? Christian? etc...so the field is even.

[jefleshman]

You dont have to Join it to support it...

Source:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/06/clinton-suggests-us-could_n_252614.html

[jefleshman]

by finkfust October 23, 2009 4:38 PM EDT
AOCGUY - I knew that jefleshman would be too stupid to discuss the Bala Baluk massacre, but I thought you would. Sadly I was wrong. You all stick together, even to hide or defend the most appalling crimes.
---------------------------------------

Fink, I just read your comments above. Please tell the government of Afghanistan and the international community you disagree with their findings when they are released.

Everyone but you can understand the thing called the "Fog of War" and acknowledges this incident as a tragedy of war and that the Taliban (not the ANSF nor ISAF) are using and continue to use the citizens as shields. Why are you not questioning them? Do you post on their internet sites as well?

Fortunately we have people that have firsthand knowledge on the situation and review all the evidence that you cannot view; the citizens envolved directly or indirectly interviewed say things that contradict your point of view; others support your point of view so who is correct? I do not discredit their account for it is their own point of view, for whatever reason. Maybe they were outside the threat of the Taliban at the time of these attack, maybe they were safe in their house as the Taliban busted in and demanded sanctuary, shelter and food from others but not them. I do not know but it is their point of view from what they were witness too from their eyes.

You rely on one source to provide your bias point of view; the media that includes the internet. I hope you know there is more out there on many different levels.

Some of us have the privilege and trust to see information the public is not privy to see. This is a fact.

When you see things firsthand, you have an advantage of providing your experience (but is it correct?). I acknowledged in the past and will acknowledge again, 99 other people can witness the same event and you will get 100 versions from the same event. It is just a fact. People are human and have their own perception of what happened based on many factors.

The media, your only source for information, "loves a good STORY". They purposely interview people (looking for things to support their article they want to write - Positive or Negative) and make it sound however they want it to sound. They will take excerpts of interviewed statements and make and twist them into anything they want them to be. This is so to "sensationalize an event" to garner readers and "sell" a story.

Fink the media is a business and their business is to make money and "sell Stories" not facts. If they were truly media they would present the "facts" as they gathered them and let the audience make an opinion. When was the last time you read a Fact (as they know it) story and no opinion added?

[finkfust]

Yes, I understand that the 'fog of war' is used as an excuse almost every time civilians get killed. That is simply not good enough for a modern, professional armed force. Is that what you claim to be? You have a responsibility to identify EXACTLY what went wrong and then rectify it at EVERY level in the command chain, right up to the commander in chief.

When you just keep on doing the same appalling things wrong year after year, and you keep on trotting out the same old excuses about 'fog of war' and 'a few bad apples', etc., what is the inevitable conclusion? It's that YOU ARE LYING.

[jefleshman]

Fink do you know how much effort goes into trying to mitigate loss of any life? Do you really know how many ROE changes have occured since 2002? Do you really know how much we put our own forces at risk for the sake of others? Do you have a clue?

[jefleshman]

Hold on one sec. We may have a break through.

Fink...

Are you now admitting we (the US) does not deliberatly plans operations to kill civilians?

This is a simple yes or no answer. Should be no dialogue just a simple yes or no.

DO YOU BELIEVE "the US deliberatly plans operations to kill civilians"? YES or NO

[finkfust]

Your question is ambiguous (which means it can be interpreted in more than one way) and I think that's exactly how you intended it to be. It therefore has more than just two answers.

I think the US deliberately plans operations which it KNOWS will kill and injure civilians, but the objective is very seldom solely TO kill and injure civilians (though for some individual members of the US armed forces it clearly is). However, I don't think that's really the problem. The problem is that most of you just see the deaths of foreign civilans, and causing terror to those civilians, as incidental to the political objectives. In that respect what you are doing IS terrorism.

..... and before you start putting words into my mouth yet again, yes I know that many terrorists DO deliberately kill civilians and only civilians, and I condemn that absolutely.

[jefleshman]

Fink, you brought it up...

Can you tell me what members of the armed forces sole objective is to kill civilians. WHere is you proof?
-----------------------------------
Fink your words not mine

"but the objective is very seldom solely TO kill and injure civilians (though for some individual members of the US armed forces it clearly is)"

[jefleshman]

Plus...Fink you used the word "seldom" in the follwoing quote...

"but the objective is very seldom solely TO kill and injure civilians"

This implies that the US does at times have killing and injuring civilians as an objective...

Care to explain this one and prove it?

[finkfust]

I think the intent of Sgt. Paul E. Cortez was pretty clear, don't you?

[jefleshman]

Ok Fink,

There are good and bad people in every walk of life and in every profession.

Are you kidding me. Sgt. Paul E. Cortez (who did a criminal act and does not at all represent the values of the military)

By The Way: he was sentenced to 100 years in prison for his crimes and also was given a dishonorable discharge. (we hold our "criminals" accountable)


Is this your whole point of view to find the ones and twos of bad people?

Who do not reflect the honor and dignity of hundreds of thousands of service men and woman in the US?

Please tell me this is not your intent to try to find the one bad apple in an orchard and say the WHOLE orchard is bad?

[jefleshman]

Plus this was not a planned or Condoned by the military. That was some individual who used the military "as cover" for their criminal acts.

[finkfust]

jefleshman - Until you say exactly where your 'quotes' are taken from, they are meaningless drivel, just as your own comments are.

Besides, it was a question to AOCGUY, as is obvious to anyone with more that 3 brain cells by the word "AOCGUY" at the beginning.

[jefleshman]

SOURCE: http://www.sofmag.com/wp/2009/05/centcom-investigation-team-interim-results-on-farah/

Fink is was a simple cut and paste, and you could not find the article? Wow and you say I am stupid and do not have more than 3 brian cells?

[jefleshman]

Fink,

It is easy to question someone else's actions and decisions taken (Hindsight Bias).

But not so easy to say what you would do in the same case (because you cannot 100% simulate the same stress and actions that were going on - you should know this, didn't you claim to be a scientist or something?).

I say again Fink, what would you have done as the ANSF commander to protect your men or as the ISAF commander to protect your men?

And just think you have the knowledge of after the fact on some of the conflicting results. The commanders or the Soldiers didn't have that luxury.

Go ahead give it your best shot. We are all interested on what you would do. Again, you never answer this question, why Fink? Because there is no RIGHT answer - hence the term "fog of war".

[finkfust]

Soldier of Fortune magazine!!!!!! You mean that well-known source of objective information about suspected crimes committed by American soldiers?

Do you REALLY expect to be taken seriously? Don't you realise what a joke you are?

P.S. I don't waste my time trying to find where you get your ridiculous quotes from.

[jefleshman]

Fink Take your pic of dozens and dozens of UNCLASSIFIED reports, please use what ever one you want to, it really doesnt matter...

-------------------------------------
http://www.blackanthem.com/News/afghanistan/CENTCOM-investigation-team-interim-results-on-Farah_printer.shtml

waronterrornews.typepad.com/.../afg-farah-investigation-60-enemy-kia.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/05/2009516132116859535.html#

http://www.afghanconflictmonitor.org/airstrikes/page/2/#

http://www.afghanemb-canada.net/en/news_bulletin/2009/may/20/index.php

The list goes on and on. The Fog of war is something else.

------------------------------------
But again I ask you.

What what you do? What would Fink do in this "foggy situation" called war and conflict when your men are dieing and you have been pinned down and out numbered during a "7 hour firefight"?

Are you going to answer with the luxury of hindsight bias?

Let me guess...Nope you won't answer.

[jefleshman]

I will leave you with this (I am going to the DFAC to get dinner).

Every single report, every single one of them conflict with one another. Yet they all point to a "troops in contact" situation in which the Taliban were again using the citizens of Afghanistan as their source of money, sanctuary, shelter and shield.

Every report I read (at least 30) stated this was NOT, let me say this again so it goes into your thick skill, NOT...again NOT and once again NOT a deliberate planned operation! Do you understand? Or are you too proud to admit this fact?

So your "the us deliberatly plans operations to kill civilians" is BS.

I hope you go on the Taliban web sites and post your garbage to them and accuse them of what they REALLY do that you accuse us for.

[finkfust]

jefleshman said - So your "the us deliberatly plans operations to kill civilians" is BS.

You know perfectly well that to put something in quote marks means that somebody said exactly those words. Are you claiming that I said exactly what is in the quote marks above, or are you lying again?

Why are you CONSTANTLY trying alter and deceive? Is that how the US trains its soldiers? I suspect it actually is, and this is possibly the root of many problems.

Why don't you have just ONE honest moment in your life and admit that those words in the quote marks were not written by me, but by YOU?

[jefleshman]

Hold on one sec. We may have a break through.

Fink...

Are you now admitting we (the US) does not deliberatly plans operations to kill civilians?

This is a simple yes or no answer. Should be no dialogue just a simple yes or no.

DO YOU BELIEVE "the US deliberatly plans operations to kill civilians"? YES or NO

[finkfust]

>This implies that the US does at times have killing and
>injuring civilians as an objective...

It depends how you define "the US", but clearly the US did so many times in WWII, but I put "seldom" because there isn't (to my knowledge) proof of a recent large-scale case, and if there are/were such objectives then they would be kept very secret. There are of course many smaller cases, but proof of it being done under orders from a senior officer has not yet emerged.

I think the evidence of deliberate, ordered killing of civilians in your 'war on terror' will emerge in time (almost certainly Fallujah will be one case), but we'll have to wait a few years for that. In the mean time, wouldn't you say that the US policy to use torture deliberately caused injuries to people who were civilians? Deaths also resulted, but no doubt you will say they were accidental, though I'm not sure how you can 'accidentally' beat a man to death!

[jefleshman]

Fink,

See I think we are getting there. I like conversations that are thought provoking. And at times we have had these discussions which I do not know how you feel, but I have become a better man because of it. It tests my resolve.

Ok onto your torture question.

I think that one major problem is defining touture. I believe it has been documented that individuals have died under interrogation and if that is the case those responsible should be held liable. There is military rules and regulations that govern the conduct of interrogations, what can and cannot be done. I am not saying I agree with them, but there is rules. If an individual breaks those rules they should be held liable.

MY PERSONAL thoughts on this. We must always take the higher ground. I struggle with trying to define torture since pretty much anything you do counter to a person wanting to do it on their own could be defined as torture. This is a very hard subject for me.

I know I am very vague about this subject, so please follow up with specifics if you would like. I am not an integrator, but do not mind giving my personal thoughts on it.

[finkfust]

OK AOCGUY, I'll re-post this at the top for you......

May 4, 2009 - Bala Baluk. Would you like to discuss that one? There are many, many more.

Hey Flesh - Don't kill anyone.

[jefleshman]

An ongoing U.S. Central Command investigation team briefed interim findings after reviewing information on recent events in Farah province associated with alleged civilian casualties.

Investigators reviewed weapon sight video from the aircraft supporting the coalition rescue of Afghan national security forces in Bala Baluk on May 4 which clearly depicts insurgents entering the buildings which were then targeted in the final strikes of the fight. Combined with audio recordings of the ground commander and air crew conversations the investigators were able to confirm that the insurgents fleeing from the firefight were regrouping in several small rural buildings which were then subsequently destroyed. A review of the physical evidence is inconclusive in determining the exact number of civilian and insurgent casualties. In all, the investigation team estimates that 60-65 Taliban extremists were killed in these engagements, while at least 20-30 civilians may have been killed during the fighting. The investigators continue to attempt to better confirm casualty numbers.

A large number of Taliban fighters, to include non-Afghans, consolidated on Ganj Abad and Grani villages May 3, and demanded payments from villagers. Afghan and coalition troops reported observing at least 300 villagers evacuating the area prior to the fighting. Reports from Afghan officials indicated that the Taliban had executed three former government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan officials. In a joint operation the Afghan national police supported by the Afghan national army went to the village to drive out the Taliban. As the ANP approached the village of Garani they were ambushed by 200-300 Taliban. During the initial ambush two ANP were killed. A total of five ANP officers were killed during the battle. Outmanned and outgunned the Provincial Governor request the coalition Quick Reaction Force.

Once the coalition force arrived, they along with an ANA unit attempted to help the ANP. At this point, the Taliban launched another attack, firing on the ANA and coalition forces. One U.S. Navy Corpsman was shot in the shoulder while attempting to rescue a wounded Afghan soldier and an ANA soldier was shot in the chest as he attempted to charge a Taliban position. In order to rescue the fallen ANA 1st Sergeant who was trapped by heavy Taliban machine gun and RPG fire, the coalition force used close air support by F-18s to suppress the enemy fire from buildings nearby. The coalition Forces and ANA then rushed forward, placed the fallen ANA 1st Sgt. on a stretcher and carried him to safety. The 1st Sgt. was later transported from the battle by medical evacuation helicopter, and due to the bravery of the ANA and coalition soldiers he is expected to make a full recovery. Following this, one B-1 provided fires in coordination with the ground commander on buildings and a tree grove insurgents were firing from or massing in. ANSF and US Forces remained in the area until the next morning and observed the villagers returning after the fighting had ceased.

?We regret the loss of any civilian life,? said Col. Greg Julian, ?and express our condolences to the families who lost loved ones in this fighting with insurgents firing from and regrouping in villagers? homes. We continue to work closely with the Afghan national security forces to bring security and progress to Afghanistan, and to do everything we can to avoid civilian casualties. We strongly condemn the Taliban for their brutality in deliberately targeting and using civilians as human shields.?

[jefleshman]

I guess you want to take your "alleged" misconduct to the Afghan government.

This as they say "is the rest of the story"

Fink get a life!

[jefleshman]

More from later reports from "Bala Baluk" battle.

FINK... this is the fog of war! What would you do? Your an Afghan officer and your men are being slaughtered and are out numbered... everything you had done has failed and the dust storm and night is preventing medevac (this is what happened, not some story!)

What would you do Fink?

-----------------------------------

Malham, was angrier at the Taliban. "I say this to them," he said in a low voice, glancing over to make sure he was not frightening his daughter with the vehemence of his tone. "May God bring their houses down on their heads."

The fighting in Bala Baluk began soon after dawn, after insurgents took over an old fortress in Garani and high ground in another adjoining village, Ganjabad. The entire district has only 140 police officers; the Taliban outnumbered them at least 2 to 1, perhaps 3 to 1.

By midday, the police were taking casualties as they tried to advance through agricultural fields near Garani, maneuvering past walls and culverts that provided abundant cover for enemy. The Taliban fighters, it seemed, were everywhere.

The insurgents captured one officer, torched a police vehicle. The police lines grew shaky.

Still outmatched after reinforcements from the neighboring capital district arrived, commanders called the Afghan army for assistance, said the provincial police chief, Abdul Ghafar Watandar. The first of its arriving soldiers, too, swiftly found themselves pinned down by a fusillade of heavy machine-gun fire and a rain of rockets from Taliban forces.

It was time to call for help again - - this time, from the Americans.

At some point in the late afternoon or early evening, the decision was made to call in airstrikes, a measure most often taken when Western commanders believe an outpost or a field contingent is in danger of being overrun.

"This was not some kind of indiscriminate bomb-the-village kind of thing," Nicholson said.
--------------------------------

Fink, it is sad for any loss of life and may thoughts and prayers are with the families of this travesty as yours should be. War and the fog of war is always there. As I made in the actual scenerio I gave you to make a decision on! Training can only hope to prepair you for the reality of war.

[finkfust]

jefleshman - Until you say exactly where your 'quotes' are taken from, they are meaningless drivel, just as your own comments are.

Besides, it was a question to AOCGUY, as is obvious to anyone with more that 3 brain cells by the word "AOCGUY" at the beginning.

[pleiku1]

Cheney the Draft Dodger. I wonder if he has any family members serving in the military? Maybe they have better things to do such as "other options". Afghanistan War is another Vietnam, same corruption, unwilling local soldiers. Do as I say not as I do. Hey Dick, where were you; we missed you in Nam.

[AOCGUY]

Flesh/Fink - You know I would love to carry on this discussion but with over 18 pages of posts and CBS double posting I'm done searching for previous post references. I think I have answered/commented on everything you have asked - if not try making it an original posts rather than linked to an old one. It's nighttime here - I think I will pour myself a cold one and relax. I'll check back tommorrow or maybe Monday if this thread is still alive. Have a great weekend.

Hey Flesh - Stay safe.

AOCGuy

[jefleshman]

AOC and All,

Thanks for the blessings and wish for safety over here. This is truly the most dangerous time as I am ready to come home.

Sorry had "technical difficulties" over here after I posted, very hard to follow the conversation. I tried to back track as much as I could to see what in the world is going on.

Seems like Fink is trying to use the same old story lines to want to "paint" any airstrike that kills innocents have to be intentional in nature; anyone who has any common sense or understand a grain of tactics can conclude Fink is just trying to "stir" things up and mislead people. Fink will try to use isolated "questionable" incidents (that get investigated) to "prove" a point. It is easy to question things from a computer and use the media as your only source to "know" what really happened. It is easy to be an "Arm Chair" general or commander when you have no clue and any facts on the situation.

Fink has obviously never served and fails to want to understand and improve oneself.

Fink, I hope you question the terrorist about their "direct and planned targets to kill innocents"; Suicide bombers, hasty indirect fire, pressure plate IEDs, kidnappings and murder of civilians and NGOs in Afghanistan and so on. I am proud our forces do not use human shields or put our families at risk. The terrorist will make IEDs in their family's qalat. That is who is as fault Fink. Put the blame where it really lies.

Anyhow, AOC, Joe and many others... I hope we can continue dialogue. I will be checking in quite regularly. It actually makes these last few days go by and I appreciate it.

[airjackie]

Everyone knows Karzai's govenment is corrupt and the Bush
Administration ran the Karzai Govenment. All the secrets and lies have come to light with Vice President Joe Biden visiting that country. The Taliban is upset with the US because Dick Cheney/Halliburton built a pipeline to steal oil. Notice how the Poppy Plants get larger every year with the US saying and doing nothing. Ask any soldier stationed in Afghanistan and you'll hear what I heard. If you want pure drugs you can get it free in Afghanistan. Cheney ran the US for 8 years while Bush was just holding the title and used for photo ops. It's clear who was really President as Bush has no idea what the Foreign Policy was or is.

[Treadlightly2]

Please flip through the comments..It has been a fun ride..
Trophies will be awarded for the most insightful and the furthest off topic so everybody goes home a winner.

[jd2408]

You seem to make light of a war that many of our young men have died in. I feel sorry for you.

[ellensmithee]

Cheney, you have no morals, you creepy, scabby old Darth Vader b@stard.
Go away. Have the decency to shut up and go away.
Show that much moral fiber, you greedy, sadistic, and sick vulture.

[chelokee]

I think Momar Kadafi is a friggin Idiot. I don't think he actually graduated from the University of Libya, and I don't think he recieved a Law degree. He is much too stupid to do this. Not only is he stupid, but I think he is a yellow coward who should be wearing a pretty pink dress.

[noloyalisti]

Iraq and now Afghanistan are just big money laundering operations for the big, rich American corporations. They always win, no matter who dies. The Bush-Cheney Crime Family were the perfect right wing puppets for the corporations. Mission Accomplished!

[run2jazz2]

It is not President Obama who neglected Afghanistan, but the last eight years of incompetence by the previous administration. Chenney sits on a soap box and tries to emulate that he and the President had their eye on the ball, yet they were taking care of no one but themselves and their cronies like Ken Lay and Haliburton. Bush and Chenney will go down as this nations worst Presidential administration.

[doc_holliday76]

by rafaeldrc:

Cheney had his moment in history to prove what kind of intellectual he was and history will record him as an arrogant incompetent. He could push and bully is staff to follow his pathological orders but the Taliban follow their own orders. Cheney had his chance to bring about victory for seven years. Now he wants Obama to "shoot from the hip".

I don't think so.
--------------------------------------------





Yep....cheney and the rest of the delusional PNAC neoCONS will be judged by history as the arrogant incompetents they were, and they should just slither back underneath the rocks they came from since they have proven just how irrelevant they are today!

[Treadlightly2]

This is an example of a non original idea.
From the Wikipedia definition for Pluralism

Martin Luther King Jr., for example, was certainly not a rich person. But by using resources such as his forceful personality, organizational skills, and especially the legitimacy of his cause, he had a greater impact on American politics than most wealthy people.

[doc_holliday76]

TRUTH hurts doesn't it joey, since all those PNAC neoCONS like dirty dickie cheney and his neoCON daughter should be deported for all their treasonous activities the past 8 years!
-----------------------------------------



by N-Y-Joe-11:
"The only truth is your<SIC> a stupid lib, living in the past, desperately holding on to your last ounce of Bush-bashing left."
------------------------------------------







Nah...not at all joey, since the truth of the matter is that at least bush has the decency to keep his mouth shut after all the mistakes the PNAC neoCONS made over the past 8 years, so there is no need to bash the little bush -- only the BIG MOUTH cheneys -- both father and daughter that still live in the 20th century like all you republican't neoCONS still fighting the cold WAR.

[Treadlightly2]

Just occured to me that this is really about COMPETITION as opposed to Co-operation. These gung-ho psychos have to win at ALL COST ignoring the usual constraints a normal human being might have.

That is ELITISM compounded by greed.

I knew they were dangerous but I didn't think they would blindly drive the country into the ground just to stroke their EGOS.

[lmartink]

Odd that Cheney would be telling Obama how to do this. For the last 7 years, Cheney skrewed up repeatedly. Now he's giving advice??? Amazing!

[Treadlightly2]

In its emphasis on developing and deploying ?Global Missile Defenses?, the PNAC renews its call for the United States to abandon the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty between the U.S. and the former Soviet Union, from which the U.S. withdrew in 2002.

Wow Cheney and his Cohorts really were Dr. Strangelove and crew.

I guess I slept through a lot of this. It was so hard to keep up with all the mischief those guys were up to.

[Treadlightly2]

Got any original ideas? N-Y-Shmoe?

[Treadlightly2]

Thanks to the CBS staff for leaving this up for so long..I wish the entire transcript could find it's way into the Washington Post.Hmmm