Sweat Lodge Victims "Definitely Murdered"

(CBS)  Two weeks ago, around 60 people sat in a packed sweat lodge in Arizona when tragedy struck.

The participants were on a so-called spiritual retreat organized by self-help guru James Arthur Ray. Each had paid $9,000 to attend.

However, something went wrong in the sweat lodge, leaving three people dead.

Relatives of Kirby Brown, who lost her life on the retreat, spoke out on "The Early Show" about the sweat lodge and Ray's alleged involvement in the tragedy.

Robert Brown, Kirby's brother, said his sister didn't know what she was getting herself into.

"I think that she went there with all the right ideas and purposes in mind to better her life, to better herself. She had big plans," he said.

And while Kirby had attended Ray's seminars previously, Robert said, they were in classroom-like settings for information and networking -- not the physical kind of retreat she attended this time.

Tom McFeeley, her cousin and family spokesperson, said something went "horribly wrong" in the sweat lodge.

McFeeley said, "We've talked to many people in the lodge. And what we found out is that it was a very confusing scene because people were passing out and coming to. There were a lot of people who wanted to leave the tent, wanted to leave the lodge, but when people could leave was controlled by James Ray."

Ray, McFeeley said, was at the door.

"You could you only leave after each session, this was about 15 minutes, and he controlled when the session was over and how long that door stayed open, so we believe there were very dangerous decisions made by him about when people were allowed to exit, re-enter to help other people out," McFeeley said. "We have very serious concerns about those questions."

McFeeley added that Ray was inadequate to do the things he did on the retreat.

"I think when you see someone who writes books and has CDs and has been on 'Oprah,' I think you make an assumption about their qualifications," he said.

McFeeley said he believes three people who died in the sweat lodge were "definitely murdered."

"There's no question they were murdered," he said. "We think it's lucky that 52 other people survived. What they did to them through sleep deprivation and a 36 hour fast, and they came off the fast with a breakfast buffet like it was the Holiday Inn. This is not the way do you these physical things."

McFeeley said Ray was playing "very dangerous and trying physical games."

"He was literally putting people's lives at risk and he should have seen signs," McFeeley said. "There were other people who got sick at other events in previous years."

Robert saud remembering his sister and never having this happen again is what's on his mind now.

"I want people to know my sister, you know, the truly beautiful, inspirational, unbelievable woman that she was. She was everybody's best friend," Robert said. " ... Nobody should be going through what we're going through right now. She was taken from us. I want her back."

However, though his family knows Kirby isn't coming back, he said, they're hoping now that the other victims get the professional counseling they need to get through this "traumatic experience."

[savarese12]

You NEVER use any non-breathable tarp on a lodge as it does not allow oxygen in and allow CO2 to leave. You always assess ans d check in on the group with questions such as: "How is everybody doing?" When I run lodge and it gets too hot I open the door to "let the prayers out". I have been doing Native American ceremonies for 30 years and over the past 10 years I have noticed some new lodge leaders do things which in my view are not safe or healthy. Obviously people who pay $9000 for 5 days...well these folks must have really beleived in this Ray. He had a tremendous responsibility to assure their saftey and well-being. Anyone who has been trained properly or has any common sense would know that you always use non-chemically treated cloth tarps and blankets for a lodge and you always should create an envirnoment where people know it is ok to ask for the door if you are getting too hot. When sweat ceremonies are done right they can be very healing and gratifying on many levels...this Ray was definetely not qualified to hold the lives of these people in his care and should be held accountable....especially if he demands money for his services. I use a donation basket only when I do a big ceremony when I need a little help with fuel....otherwise just helping out is good.

[jende555]

I am amazed at how many people are defending this creep and even his so called 'intelligence'? This wasn't a sweat tent - it was an oven and these people were essentially being cooked! How 'intelligent' can this be?

Are you really that brainwashed? At what point do you begin to question false teachers? After 100 deaths, 1000 deaths? Three are just not enough? Witnesses have said he shut the door and coaxed people to stay. He was trying to kill them!

[agalie]

I actually sat next to this charlatan on a two hour flight not long ago. As a psychologist, I was shocked at his ignorance of even the basic clinical principles. Whenever I would ask him a question, he would spout some meaningless platitude that was suppossed to answer the question but in fact was essentially gibberish. I knew nothing of him or what he did but I do remember saying to myself "this guy is dangerous". When I saw his picture in the paper and how many people he had hurt I couldn't help but wonder when people will learn. There are no instant answers out there.

[bambino999]

maybe you should have jumped off the plane if it was that bad just because you could not understand his intelligence dosent make him a murderer,,wake up!

[bambino999]

once more he had no intention of killing anyone,if he did that would be murder,you are judging his comments,who knows how one might act after being pinned as a murderer,he feels horrible asbout what happened according to the comments i saw he made,is is very concerned about what went wrong,i dont see that as arrogance but only true concern and distraughtness.....

[bambino999]

my response is to those whom have already hung this man calling it murder, it is not murder in any circumstance,if they find him negligent then manslaughter would be the case not murder so check your own ignorance before getting personal,and remember the next time you do something BY ACCIDENT with no intention of outward harm are you going to think the same way when they want to hang the word murder on you....come on get smart and stop calling everyone witches.....got it!

[seeker108]

bambino999 - there are no "ACCIDENTS" in mysticism. Mr. Ray's comments are sooo self-centered. He forgot that this is not about him. To be a leader / a teacher is to be a servant to those who entrust in you. Mysticism is not forgiving of self-agendas, negligence or overconfidence.

[bambino999]

still just an accident! purging is part of the process,if james ray thought they would die he would have released them immediately murder is if there is intention only, if not then every doctor that has ever given a patient prescription drugs or operated on a patient whom died and there are millions should by right be prosecuted for murder,every judge whom put a person in jail who died there should be tried for murder and we should then remove the word ACCIDENT from the dictionary.....

[justicewillprevail]

bambino999, are you really that ignorant? It's called negligent homicide and it happens all the time and people go to jail for it all the time. There are degrees of responsibility to consider in a court case, and to all appearances, a very great deal of responsibility for these deaths lay at JR's feet. Just read ANY accounts by health professionals and actual native american leaders of sweats and they all say the physical circumstances were outrageously dangerous.

[bambino999]

i believe james ray had no intention of ever harming anyone,
this was a complete accident,how much money he charges is irrelevant
an accident is not murder,he was offering enlightenment and challenge
the protocol in a sweat lodge is to try to stay and pray but by no means if these people wanted to really leave all they had to do was go and no one would stop them,an being an indian dosent make one a sweat lodge professional,and a white boy whom studies the red road can be a great sweatlodge leader..if you want to try this man for murder then lets bring down the promoters of the marathon two days later in which three people died!! should'nt the promoters of that makeshift sporto event be watching and monitoring each runner to make sure they are safe and carried across the finish line? according to your way of thinking these people should be charged with murder for sponsoing this event also, forcing people to run 26 miles if they quit early there is no prize!!isnt this just as much enticement as asking people to try and stay in!!

[Kronos262]

James Ray is reported to have closed the tent's door on people attempting to leave. Even when people were reportedly passed out and puking. James Ray reportedly told attendees they were purging and that they should be left alone.

If a marathon event promoter ran their event in such a way as James Ray appeared top hold this death tent ceremony, it would be nearly akin to Stephen King / Richard Bachman's the long run, just with a different motivator for people to stay on the road! And yes by that trail of thought, they should be investigated and probably tried for murder as well IMNSHO.

[justicewillprevail]

And who told you that purging is part of the process---James Ray (noted physician--NOT)? Actually vomiting is a sign (in overheated situations) that your body is becoming severely dehydrated and you need to take immediate action. Heat stroke is highly dangerous and can result in death--as demonstrated.

[credibility2]

Spirituality isn't necessarily a religious experience. Sadly, these lost seekers of substance, who sought to find the me that probably never existed, paid the price by dying because of a quack and charlatan and because they were weak-willed, weak-minded and gullible. What were his credentials anyway for something like this? I hope he's charged with murder and sued by the families of those he killed and left to rot in concrete, penniless and in search of himself.

[Zen2012]

With the emotional upheavals this event is producing it is a challenge to be clear and just, but the responsibility of these deaths sets squarely on the shoulders of James Ray. I'm sure it wasn't his intention (law of attraction) to cause these deaths, but his lack of preparation and understanding of the sweat lodge integrity allowed it to happen.

As humans we are quick to point fingers, even when we may have supported the focus of our finger-pointing. My father taught me that to point a finger meant that you have three pointing back at you, so be prepared with solutions to offer rather than criticism, condemnation or judgment.

Whether this event and exposure is due to the Cycle of Ethics (Mayan Calendar Time Cycle) or just a terrible accident, the result is the same. We see a man whose priorities are questionable making a killing financially (pun intended). If you've experienced his 'Harmonic Wealth' intro... he's closing from the first words out of his mouth. That, in my opinion, is a huge red flag that plays on the insecurity of others.

My concern would be that if this overt manipulation is being gobbled up by an unsuspecting public, then what else is happening in the assumption of intelligence and good will from these folks? Are people really that ignorant and trusting so that they follow like sheeple?

What happened to discernment and responsibility? This was the ultimate sales pitch... your money or your life? Turned out to be both.

[cathy8808]

Read this

http://twsp.bravejournal.com/

[Kronos262]

Ms_enza... It has been reported from attendees in the lodge that James Ray was seated by the only door to the lodge and controlling access to it. He was likely in the best position for relief from the conditions, especially when he opened the door. Obviously it worked very well for him, since he wasn't one of the lot who required a trip to the hospital. ;)

[gramto8]

by Ms_enza October 20, 2009 2:00 PM EDT
So... if the people in the lodge were confused, dehydrated, and not thinking clearly
AND
if those who were running the fiasco were IN THE LODGE then how is anyone to blame?
___________________________
If James Arthur Ray was standing by the door as noted above, he got fresh air every time the door opened. Therefore he was probably not overheated, nor was he hypoxic. He had the mental capacity to know what he was doing to these people and was using his power over them. He is guilty of murder.