Dating & Dollars: Recession Relationships

Have Rules of Love Have Changed in Down Economy?

(CBS)  The economy has been a mess these last couple of years, forcing many people to rethink the way they deal with money.

It used to be, for instance, that it was OK for women to take men's finances and earning power into account when considering whether to date them. It used to be that the men were always expected to pick up the check. And it used to be that if you met someone who had to move back in with their parents, some would write them off as potentially permanently flawed.

But now, times have changed. Oftentimes women make more than their male counterparts, and the dinner check is now regularly split. Due to layoffs, many have been forced to move home with their parents. And to admit that you are attracted to a man for his money seems a very negative stigma.

So what are the new rules?

Cosmopolitan magazine has written an article about the new rules of love and money in their October issue. In the upcoming article, a featured poll of men and women (over 1000 from the ages of 18 to 34) finds out what they think of the complexities of the economy, dating and love.

The poll finds among women, 59 percent say that if they were on the fence about dating a guy, they would be more likely to go out with him if he made a lot of money. That's a pretty big number, considering that women often say that it doesn't matter. Many professors and statisticians say that this is because women are hard-wired to want a mate who can provide for their offspring. While 74 percent of women still check out what a man as wearing as an indicator of their resources.

And 62 percent of women say they would not tell their friends about a guy's lackluster job status, if they were unemployed or under-employed. So while they might go on dates with men whose status isn't what they wish, they might not be so proud of it. One of the most shocking statistics is that 73 percent of women say they would downplay their accomplishments, if they felt their man was under-employed or unemployed. Experts warn that downplaying may backfire, and leave your man resentful when he learns the truth.

But what about men? Twenty eight percent of men earn less than their girlfriends. Of those men, one-third say they still pay for most things. And 42 percent say that if the women they were dating were unemployed or under-employed, that they wouldn't willingly explain this to their friends and family.

And on "The Early Show" Wednesday, Matt Titus, author of "Why Hasn't He Called?" and Nicole Beland, Cosmo executive editor, shared their opinions on these new relationship rules in a classic he-said/she-said debate:

Is it wrong for women to be attracted to a man with money?

(Titus) HE SAID: Absolutely not, women have historically been attracted to men of money and power. Lets face it, it's a total turn on being in the presence of a man that can buy and sell everyone in the room or restaurant. Women also have a subconscious feeling of security around men of wealth and power just knowing that he could "take care of them" for the rest of their lives at a moment notice if necessary.

(Beland)SHE SAID: No it's not wrong. Maybe it doesn't sound so good if you talk about it exactly that way, but it's only natural. First of all, women are born with an instinct to be attracted to those who can provide for her and her offspring. Also, if a man has money, it's an indication of other good dating qualities-Responsibility, Goal orientation, Detail orientation are all implied in a man who is successful. Don't feel bad, if you let money give a man you are the fence about an extra push. Now that doesn't mean that you should date anyone JUST BECAUSE of money., but it's ok to weigh it in as a factor.

If you are dating a woman that makes more than you do, do you still pay for dates?

HE SAID: I can't that this is even a question!!!! Why should she get penalized because she is more financially successful than you!! of course you pay...MEN ALWAYS PAY! Chivalry lives and it thrives in relationships where the guy is a true gentleman and worth something.

SHE SAID: Due to the traditions of dating, men should probably pay for that all important first date. But if you want a relationship of equality, women should offer to pay. in the Cosmo poll, 50% of women say that they offer to pay. Now it's possible that a man may resent you for paying, which is not a good sign for the future of a relationship. Also, women should not offer to pay if they do not really mean it. Offering to pay and then resenting him when he accepts is a silly way to waste your energy.

How and when should you split the check on dates?

HE SAID: NEVER!!!!!!!!!! What is this world coming to? When a woman allows a man to split the check, she is lowering her position in the relationship by showing him that she is as ordinary as the guys he splits the check with. When a man is not led to believe that he is privileged to be with a woman than he will treat her no better than his male friends.

SHE SAID: Again, men should really pay on the first date, it's a societal tradition. But after that, there is no reason that you can't take turns treating each other, it's easier than constantly splitting the bill. Also, if you are a little strapped one week and it's your week to treat, you can steer the date to a cheaper locale. It's backwards thinking that men should always pay.

Are you more or less willing to go out with someone who has moved back in with their parents now that layoffs are becoming the norm?

HE SAID: Look I don't care how bad off you are financially as a guy but if you have to move in with your parents then you shouldn't be dating during that time.

SHE SAID: It depends on the age. A lot of 20 somethings live with their parents as a way of saving up for the future, it's just smart economics. After college, times are tough, and a lot of people have to pay off loans.

However, if your date is living with their parents and is a little older, it can be a bad sign. There are, however, ways of finding out. Approach the subject with your date...have a sense of humor about it. Instead of asking, so you are living with your parents, what is that about? Try: Living with you parents must be tough. What's your exit strategy? Really listen to the answer, and go from there.

Do you talk about money on dates?

HE SAID: Not if you have a shred of class!!

SHE SAID: It's not a great thing to be blunt about money (i.e.-This is how much I make, how much do you make? Or how much did you house cost?)But the way someone talks about money could be an important indicator of what kind of relationship you will have. So talk more generally about the economy -- what it's doing, what it's done. A great question to pose to men is -- so where do you see yourself in five years? Again, it's a great way of talking about goals and ambition without directly asking about money.

[arty963]

I too lived through all the whining in the 70s about equality and was there in the 80s when for 10 minutes women actually paid their own way. Women found out that work wasn't the privileged sanctum they all fantasize about and then Madonna reminded all women that a little T&A goes a long way. Males stupidly bought into this and let women put themselves back on the princess list. Chivalry my a*s, this is just women wanting to have their lives subsidized and to have things whatever way is the most convenient for themselves. What if the question were, 'should men feel bad that they prefer dating women with nice bodies?' This is just as 'natural' as women wanting to date men who can 'provide for them and their offspring'. Large breasts and wide hips means better child bearing and nursing. This conversation couldn't even take place on TV because women would be enraged (and jealous). Can you say 'double standard'? All this being said, I think we ALL ought to do what comes natural, but well educated to understand that a beautiful body doesn't imply brains or a good personality, and/or that money may simply mean he's hell bent on power and couldn't care less about having a good relationship. However, I think that women look a little beyond the here and now. In New York City a favorite expression among women is, 'the first baby in the insurance policy'. How charming. In essence the modern woman is taught be feminism that 'he is not necessary, but his money is'. Women bring 70% of all divorces cases and get child custody (along with the house, car, etc.) 90% of the time. Men in the US are just seen as sperm banks and walking ATMs, but then again they are stupid enough to hand over their blood and treasure for a what looks like a reliable source of sex--yeh, right. I think women are smarter in most cases, they just go for a long range solution to financial security--and they start with that all important first date. You go girl!

[CharleneGrrl]

Of course the majority of all people want to date someone with money - it's like an alphaero. Money creates attraction because either that person or someone in their gene pool figured out how to get power.

[ms kitty59]

I am a 60 yeart old woman who lived through the "sexual revalution". I think it is a mistake to be too idealistic when dating. A woman needs to remember that she is selecting a mate. I was very idealistic. I dated men that I liked and overlooked the little things like income, warning signs, like still living at home. I also wound up raising his two children by myself. I missed the oportunities of higher education or meeting a suitable mate, while young (who wants a ready made family?). AlthoughI love my children dearly, if I had been a little more practical at that age, my life would have been different.
I also agree with the guy, that during the courtship men need to treat women with respect and when things are too casual they don't have the same level of respect for you. AND, contrary to what we thought during the 70's when we were all screaming for equal rights, that is displayed by the little nicities like opening the door, paying for dates, etc. Remember, ladies, he is a guy and he is telling you that this is how guys minds work. It isn't because they plan it that way, it how it is.I have discovered that there were real reasons for these behaviors. I now value these traits in men and I would not consider a second date with anyone who did not show them. Women don't want to be treated like one of your guy friends, we do like to be shown that we are special.
By the way, guys who are temporarily short of cash, there are plenty of inexpensive places to go like a picnic, that can show off your other great qualities, like ingeuity and creativity, especially if you also have a good sense of humor ( which can be a big help later in life!).

[Perpelexed]

What is your problem!
I have been laidoff for about six months now. But I can still afford to date ladies. Its hard enough already to date in these times, Yet you insist on telling women to go for the monie. Im a hard worker! I'm not ugly!, and I will be called back! I still wont make 100k. I do know how to live though. I just have to be more cerative with less monie. Im the type of man that you guys have to call when something goes wrong! Yes the average blue coller worker from Ohio. I have done so much, with so little, for so long, I can now do anything with nothing.

Women screemed for equal pay for equal work! I do pay for my dates and sometimes they grab the check and won't let me pay ,but I ALWAYS offer! Most of us place women on a pedistol. A good women is hard to find, we dont need this kind backward thinking.
Why cant you tell them all of the good qualities that hard working men who might be down but not out, have.
We need loving too. Man you GUYS pissed me off. The only one that seamed to be on our side was the young ladie.

Think Matt needs to find another line of work. I Think Nicole Beland
needs to run for President. If I didn't have the money to go out with Nicole..I would just look stage couch to rob..hehe!

[Geerace]

Wow what planet did he come from? Though I haven't dated for 11 years now, I don't think it's changed that much. When I was dating, it was no big deal. If I ask you out whether for dinner, a movie or both, I expected to pay, Why? I asked her out duh! If a women asked me out (and yes that does happen) I expected her to pay, she was the one that wanted to out. Never was there a problem.

It would be nice to find all the things he mentioned, but to discount someone for the reasons would make the women sound shallow or a gold digger. That said, they is a difference between being at home where looking for a job or saving money to better your situation then being at not doing anything at all

[rearivett]

I just watched your interview on Dating for Dollars. I must admit, this is the first time I have ever commented on any website with regard to your or any other program. I was very disappointed with both gentleman's choice of words regarding guys with little money. I watch your show every morning and have great admiration for each of you.
I use to have a very good position with one of the worlds largest printing equipment manufactures and gave it up after my divorce to relocate back to my sons hometown to be a part of his life, knowing that it would put me in great financial distress. I chose my son anyway. Ten years later I am still struggling. Does this make me a bad risk for a relationship, is money everything? My son is now 21 and we have just recently been able to afford one semester of college at one of the most affordable institutions in our area. Well, hard times have fallen on me again. I am out of work and my son is working part time just trying to help make ends meet. So once again, his education must be put on hold. After listening to these comments, I now feel by the time I am able to "afford a good woman" it will be too late for me. I'm 51 years old and looking at another 5 years minimum just trying to get my son an education. So I guess true happiness will never happen for me. I realize it's a choice I made and I would do it all over again, because my son is the most important thing I have ever had in my life.

[BRPuffin]

I do not usually get visceral about a discussion but to put it simply Matt is a jerk. He is from a different time and a different place and Nicole is right. Reality is that women need to realize that they will need to be taking care of themselves far longer than there will be a man around to take care of them. Men die earlier so we might as well change the thinking about dating. It means genuine interest in the person and not just what they bring to the economic picture in terms of dollars. Men need to accept that they do not need to be in control to feel good and any long term successful relationship is about a partnership which is what dating entails.

[pattiegardner]

Matt Titus, author of "Why Hasn't He Called?" is obviously not a "MAN" but an ape from prehistoric times filled to the brim with only his image of himself in a mirror - alone!.
He should be taken off the air and submitted to dating the scum of the earth!

Thanks for the sensebilities of a real woman ( Nicole Beland ) who has a sense of herself to offset this ghastly ghoul of a "man".
Hopefully there is not a woman on this earth who would want him to call and put up with that arrogant attitute.
Keep him off your network if you wish to keep viewers who live in the 21st century.