Health Care Battle Pits Fact vs. Fiction

Irate Citizens Confront Lawmakers Nationwide about Contents of Bills - But Which Claims are Accurate?

(CBS)  In Hagerstown, Maryland there were so many, they couldn't all fit inside.

In New Jersey, they had to move to a bigger space to accommodate the unusually large crowd.

Everyone wanted to be heard, reports CBS News correspondent Sharyl Attkisson.

"No one tells me how to run my life, how long I should live or when I should die!" said one attendee, who was cheered.

Some were furious when they weren't called on.

"I am seriously affected by this," said one crying woman. "I guarantee you I will be one of the ones thrown away."

Frustration was evident among Democrats holding the listening sessions.

"There are people putting out information that's just totally false," said Sen. Ben Cardin, D-Md.

To read more:
Who's Behind the Angry Town Halls?
Anger Keeps Coming at Latest Town Halls

But separating fact from fiction isn't always easy in a health care reform bill that's not finished.

In fact four different versions have been approved by Congressional committees. We searched for answers among the three drafts available.

On abortion:

"What is your position on taxpayer-funded abortions which will increase the death of preborn infants by 20 percent?" asked on town hall attendee.

Will the government pay for abortion?

That's unclear. Under one version, abortions would have to be available through at least one insurance plan but Democrats say the abortion would be paid for with the patient's premiums.

On illegal immigrants:

"Illegal aliens will not be in this bill, period, the end," Sen. Cardin replied.

Would millions of illegal immigrants be covered through health care reform?

It's unclear.

The bill does state that only individuals lawfully present in the U.S. can qualify. But Republicans say there's no verification mechanism to ensure that illegal immigrants don't apply. And if one family member is eligible for health care, then every family member might be.

On cost:

"I am not gonna vote for any bill that adds to the national debt," Sen. Cardin said.

Would health care reform pay for itself?

As of now, that's doubtful.

The president says costs will be covered through savings and efficiencies. But the Congressional Budget Office can't quantify those factors and has estimated health care reform would increase the deficit by $239 billion over ten years.

On Congress:

"Are you willing to drop your preferential special healthcare to be stuck with this one?" said one angry town hall attendee.

Would members of Congress participate in the plan?

No. Just 75 Republicans and no Democrats have signed a pledge to participate in any government-run health care plan they pass.

We consulted with a number of political historians today and not one of them could remember an issue that's gotten more people to town hall meetings in modern times.

[ihatesnow]

help find some cures http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/ http://folding.stanford.edu/

[Sloughfoot]

"No. Just 75 Republicans and no Democrats have signed a pledge to participate in any government-run health care plan they pass"

Gives you some real confidence in how great this program really is!!!

[Stevenapoli7]

Some outside the media box facts and myths of health care: http://liberty.pacificresearch.org/docLib/20081020_Top_Ten_Myths.pdf

[american_11-2009]

Our government fails the most basic and primary task & duty of government, to protect this Nation and its Citizens from invasion and enforce its laws.

They refuse to abide by our Constitution, refuse to enforce our Immigration Laws and refuse to honor their Oath of Office!

Our Government, past & present, Republican & Democrat, have allowed the invasion of 20 to 30 million criminals and uneducated peons which is the largest invasion of any Nation, at any time, by any means & in direct violation of Article IV, Section IV of our Constitution.

This refusal to abide by our Constitution or enforce our Immigration Laws should be classified as Treason of the most foul kind, & as grounds for impeachment & trials for Treason!

Not only have they allowed the invasion, they force American tax payers to pay Billions on Billions of dollars to provide Welfare, Prison cells, Educate the invaders numerous children, and free medical care, at the same time the invading horde break numerous laws and massive document fraud, & are destroying our schools, hospitals, communities, culture and standard of living while Robbing, Raping, Killing & Assaulting American Citizens at an rate the terrorist can only dream about.

Recent statements in Mexico from both President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary something needs to be done. "Our inability to prevent weapons from being illegally smuggled across the border to arm these criminals causes the deaths of police officers, soldiers, and civilians," Hillary whined.

But no mention, whines, concern or care that their refusal to stop the Massive Invasion of Illegal Aliens pouring across our borders or enforce our immigration laws that causes an estimated 25 Americans deaths per day and 10,s of thousands victims of Assault, Robberies, Rapes, Identify thief, and other assorted crimes committed by the invading horde of Illegal Aliens from Mexico on American citizens each year!

It is a telling indictment & shows their Empathy & Compassion of our Politicians & their priorities are not for the American citizens when they express more concern over Mexicans deaths mostly connected to the Drug trade, than the murders, havoc & crimes of Illegal Aliens against American Citizens!

The Democrats view the invading horde of Criminals and Uneducated third world rejects as Undocumented Welfare Democrats & the Republicans as Undocumented Slave labor for their Pay Masters in the Chamber of Commerce & Businesses!

Most of our Politicians in Wash. DC are wading knee deep in innocent American blood and suffering because they put Self Interest ahead of the interest of American Citizens & the future of this Nation!

The Citizens of this Nation have not sacrificed with blood, sweat & tears for over 200 years & obeyed the Laws of the land, paid the taxes, and fought the wars & built this Nation to see Corrupt politicians turn this Nation into the United States of Mexico without a shot being fired, to serve their demented, nefarious goals and lust for power!

[robham777]

No. Just 75 Republicans and no Democrats have signed a pledge to participate in any government-run health care plan they pass.


Obviously this is political posturing on the part of those republicans, but I think it should be a prerequisite that any plan passed would apply to our noble congress. I would exempt Obama and family from that criteria based on the fact that if anything happens to him we get Joe.

I also have a suggestion as where to look for the revenue to support the plan. If we could reduce the funds going to the pensions of these elected officials not only would we save money but we would also help them to realize the plight of many of their constituents.

[trapbreaking]

54% Say Passing No Healthcare Reform Better Than Passing Congressional Plan

Saturday, August 15, 2009

Thirty-five percent (35%) of American voters say passage of the bill currently working its way through Congress would be better than not passing any health care reform legislation this year. However, a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that most voters (54%) say no health care reform passed by Congress this year would be the better option. - - Rasmussen

[mrleme]

Actually the 'problem' with the current bill is that it is vague at points that can condone euthanasia, abortion and selective authorized health care procedures. I don't have to read a bill that is full of legal jargon to know that. Also the administration should face that opposition and not squash it. They should answer questions and not do the infamous 'one two step of Washington D.C.' Again I emphasize my words "vague and can condone or give legal precedence" to issues that are very controversial.

[AMSF1]

It's interesting that the right-wingers here are so angry!! Where was the anger when in 2000 a US president was sworn in who was not elected!!! where was the anger when a US president told the public that Saddam Hussein caused 9/11 when he actually did not? where was the anger when the current economic crisis was caused by Bush's lack of control over the banks?
PLEASE remember that it was Bush who started baling out the banks!!!!! he gave billions!! and now people are complaining that that same amount of money can't be given to the poor - SHAME ON THIS COUNTRY .... the rest of the world is already moving away from a morally bankrupt US

[Katie1969]

I SAY NO!!!

Page 16: If you change jobs for career advancement or any other reason, nobody can insure you but the government. The bill prohibits insurance companies from writing new policies.

Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments you get and, unlike a private insurer, there will be no appeals process.

Page 59: The government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer to pay for your healthcare.

Page 145: An employer must enroll employees into the government run, public plan. No other alternatives will be available.

Page 149: Any employer with an annual payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an additional 8% tax on payroll.

Page 150: Any employer with an annual payroll of $250 to $400K, who does not offer the public option, must pay a 2 to 6% tax on payroll.

Page 167: Any individual who does not have acceptable healthcare insurance, according to the government, will be taxed 2.5% of his/her income.

Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as a tax." And yes, it really says that, these are the exact words.

Page 425: Government will instruct and consult you regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. And this will be mandatory. It looks like the government wants to lock in your estate taxes ahead of time, before you can get your estate in order, so you will not be able to leave your children their inheritance ahead of time.

Page 425: The government will provide an approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.

Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment. The government will dictate how, and when, your life ends.

Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patients health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An order from the government telling you when you have to die.

Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.

[ladypirate2]

by AMSF1 August 14, 2009 3:57 AM EDT
i don't agree with you, but why don't you come back with some facts and arguments based on good research? I for one would listen to your argument if based on sound facts that can be easily identified and sourced. If you can't back up your argument with SOUND facts, most people will start to wonder


Obamas lies:

1. It will be devicit neutral. There has been no credible proposal for paying the costs of the program. The CBO forecast significant (up to $1 Trillion) budget impact.

2. We need this to reduce costs. Actually, there has been no explanation of any of the cost reductions forecast by Obama. Only nebulous statements about "effeciency".

3. We can save $250 Billion from Medicare without reducing services. In fact, the last three administrations have struggled with the rising costs of Medicare. Not one of them has been able to find savings any where near this magnitude.

4. AARP endorses our plan. In fact, the AARP has stated publicly they do NOT endorse the current plans. They prefer to wait until more is known.

5. The Mayo clinic agrees with our plan. Maya has publicly denied their agreement. Someone is lying.

6. I will sign no bill with Pork. that is laughable lying when one reads the Stimulus, the omnibus, and the forecast budget.

7. I will proactively seek bipartisan efforts. Fact is that Obama has met with Republicans three times and each time has said "we won, we will do it our way".

8. In 2004, while speaking to a group of liberals who want single payer health system, Obama said: "We cant get there right away but we a public insurance option is the first step." Today, Obama says he does not want a single payer system. Did he lie one of those times, or did he just flip-flop in 4 years?

As you can see, his lie about AARP having endorsed his plan is just the latest among his many lies! Obama lies and thinking Americans have lost faith with him. Trust is a delicate thing and he is losing it.

[AMSF1]

devicit is not a word in the english language!!!!!!!
are you not proud to be an American now that the rest of the world respects this country and its President? The rest of the world despised Bush and the whole USA .... the rest of the world laughed that you had a president who could not speak a sentence in correct grammar!!!!!!!

[AMSF1]

thanks - great to hear your views - where do all these comments come from? sources? websites/ news articles/press releases? just curious!!

[RobertHand121]

We need to start over, lets eliminate Medicare and all government run healthcare. And, while we are at it, Social Security.

[noloyalisti]

You know when these idiot failed conservative teabaggers start talking about socialism and communism, it just shows how stupid and ignorant they are. To them, anything the government does for the people is communist. But big corporations can rape and pillage and institute fascism and they are for.

I hope to God stem cell research is in the new health plan. Then we can grow Republicons, conservatives and libertarians new brains.

[RRBL]

Why don't I call you Republicans names, then you write back and call me, a Democrat a name....my my my. That is the American way. The real problem is we are not talking. We need to lower our voice and talk to each other. We are both "slobs" if we don't...there, we are both the object of bad name calling. Now I am offended and you are offended....lets both get over it and talk.

[usaisajoke]

A view from the free world- I'm sure you won't mind being the land of the free!

For those of you comparing your healthcare system with that of Canada and the UK, they cant really be compared as those countries don't allow there citizens to die because they can't afford treatment. So no they may not be perfect but they are light years ahead of the USA.

This is a huge problem your country faces being so insular and untravled in that you belive everything in your dis-honest media, rather than actually experiencing things for yourselves.

I really don't know why I botheres waisting my time commenting on this as the USA as we all know and dislike is finished, bankrupt, poorly educated, in poor health and still just as ignorrant though!

[Britiannia]

Please take the time to read this comment from a Brit,I am so angry that the right wing of american politic's is using our NHS as a political football and might I add , the informatio thet are putting out is complete rubbish ! I have never heard such a load of old tosh in my life ! Our NHS is not perfect, but everyone in the United Kingdom know's that if they ever need treatment or are involved in accident they will be seen without question, the thought of privatised health care terrifies us, it seems that the American christian right wing have this absurd Idea that our NHS represents a socialist society, this is crazy ! we have had successive right wing governments ( remember Maggie Thatcher ? ) and the NHS has carried on regardless, it is a right of all our citizens to have free health care and if you know our history you will know this was set up in 1948 after the war, in times of terrible poverty, by Nye Bevan a Labour Party Minister who felt it was a basic human right for everyone to have access to health care without having to worry about paying for it , we are immensely proud of our NHS and our nurses and doctor's who work in it, they work extremely hard for very low pay and thier dedication is truly inspiring, if there is one critisism we do have in the UK of the way it is run, it is the Conservatives decision of handing over the running of the NHS to business managers who were more interested in targets, these people had mostly managed big business's and did not understand the way our hospitals are run, however, having said that, for such a huge nationwide service, it works really well and I for one would never allow it to be taken away from us, I would like to bet there would be nothing short of a revolution in this country if any political party tried to take the UK down the private health care route !
Just one more thing, about a month ago I was rushed into hospital with a kidney stone, the treatment I received was thorough and very very good and the after care was excellent and I thought at the time how lucky I was to have access to such a wonderful service, God Bless the NHS and all the medical staff who work in it !

[Britiannia]

Please take the time to read this comment from a Brit,I am so angry that the right wing of american politic's is using our NHS as a political football and might I add , the informatio thet are putting out is complete rubbish ! I have never heard such a load of old tosh in my life ! Our NHS is not perfect, but everyone in the United Kingdom know's that if they ever need treatment or are involved in accident they will be seen without question, the thought of privatised health care terrifies us, it seems that the American christian right wing have this absurd Idea that our NHS represents a socialist society, this is crazy ! we have had successive right wing governments ( remember Maggie Thatcher ? ) and the NHS has carried on regardless, it is a right of all our citizens to have free health care and if you know our history you will know this was set up in 1948 after the war, in times of terrible poverty, by Nye Bevan a Labour Party Minister who felt it was a basic human right for everyone to have access to health care without having to worry about paying for it , we are immensely proud of our NHS and our nurses and doctor's who work in it, they work extremely hard for very low pay and thier dedication is truly inspiring, if there is one critisism we do have in the UK of the way it is run, it is the Conservatives decision of handing over the running of the NHS to business managers who were more interested in targets, these people had mostly managed big business's and did not understand the way our hospitals are run, however, having said that, for such a huge nationwide service, it works really well and I for one would never allow it to be taken away from us, I would like to bet there would be nothing short of a revolution in this country if any political party tried to take the UK down the private health care route !
Just one more thing, about a month ago I was rushed into hospital with a kidney stone, the treatment I received was thorough and very very good and the after care was excellent and I thought at the time how lucky I was to have access to such a wonderful service, God Bless the NHS and all the medical staff who work in it !

[AMSF1]

am a Brit living in this selfish country. i'm amazed at the greed and hate and intolerance in this country. also the lies that our aired on television. i can't watch US TV anymore. I only survive through the BBC which at least shows no bias. Your words are so correct and can be researched to be true. Where does the hate and intolerance in the US come from?

[AMSF1]

It seems to me that a large part of this issue has to do with compassion and care, not greed and self interest. The USA is the ONLY country in the developed world that does not have universal health care. Yet Americans pay about the same tax as many other countries. American taxes go to government bureaucracy and war costs. European taxes go towards more social costs. If you want to pay taxes for war and politicians, then it's OK in USA - if you think, as I do, that the only reason to pay taxes is to help the less fortunate in society, then living in the USA is a miserable experience. American greed has brought the world to it's knees through the greed of bankers. Finally the country has elected sane politicians - let them do their work and change this greed-orientated country.
For the record, the USA has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world and the lowest life expectancy of any developed country. Great health system then!

[ladypirate2]

I wish CBS would finally fix the comment boards on their websites! I'm tired of having everything I type being duplicated! It makes it hard to come back later and check my comments to see if anyone's written a reply! I have to go back through all of the comments and find my original comment to see if anyone has answered it. It also makes these comment boards very confusing!

[AMSF1]

why can't Americans debate in an intelligent way? talk, understand, listen? all this vitriol - do you know what that means? - is counter-productive. This country needs decent news programmes with unbiased tv hosts and good news reporting that represents both sides of an argument. If two people have a totally opposing view, there must be something to listen to in both and there must be a compromise. Otherwise there will be war, which most religions of the world have caused for my reasons above. LISTEN, TALK, TOLERATE AND STOP THE VITRIOL!!! The world will be a better place.

[ladypirate2]

He lies and then turns on the charm and the smile and his followers melt and believe every word he says! They think that no way he could be lying with a smile like that and the high IQ that they think he has and his many law degrees! I think little by little they're finding out about him the hard way though! He's told too many lies especially about this health care reform bill. People are beginning to wake up and see the mistake they made on election day!

[speakinup22]

75 Republicans and no Democrats agreed to live with the Government health care.

Why can't the Democrats get on board with this one ?