WASHINGTON, July 22, 2009
Senate Rejects Concealed Weapons Provision
Amendment Would Have Made It Legal To Carry Concealed Weapons Across State Lines
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Play CBS Video Video Carrying Concealed Guns A new, pro-gun amendment, tacked onto a critical defense-funding bill, would allow gun owners to carry concealed weapons across state lines. Bob Orr reports.
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The Senate rejected an amendment to the defense spending bill that would have allowed gun-owners to carry concealed weapons across state lines, July 22, 2009. (CBS)
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Interactive 111th Congress With Democrats in control in both chambers AND the White House, latest session convenes.
The vote was 58-39 in favor of the provision establishing concealed carry permit reciprocity in the 48 states that have concealed weapons laws. That fell two votes short of the 60 needed to approve the measure, offered as an amendment to a defense spending bill.
Opponents prevailed in their argument that the measure violated states rights by forcing states with stringent requirements for permits to recognize concealed weapons carriers from states that give out permits to almost any gun owner.
"This is no minor shift in policy," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a Democrat whose state of California requires people to be fingerprinted, get gun training and to undergo a federal background check before issuing permits. "It in fact would be a sweeping change and I think with some deadly consequences."
The vote reversed recent trends where Republicans and gun rights Democrats from rural states joined to push pro-gun rights issues and block gun control legislation.
Congress this year voted to restore the rights of people to carry loaded weapons into national parks and the Senate moved to effectively eviscerate the tough gun control laws of the city of Washington.
Congress has also ignored urgings from President Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder to revive a ban on military-style weapons that expired in 2004.
The concealed weapons measure, promoted by the National Rifle Association and Gun Owners of America, would have made a concealed weapon permit from one state valid in the 47 other states with permit laws. Only Wisconsin and Illinois have no carry permit laws.
Sen. John Thune, a Republican from South Dakota, the sponsor, said it would not provide for a national carry permit, and that a visitor to another state would have to obey the limitations of that state, such as bans on concealed weapons in restaurants or other places.
"Law-abiding individuals have the right to self-defense," even when they cross state lines, Thune said, citing the example of truck drivers who need to protect themselves as they travel.
Opponents, however, said the 48 states with permits have a broad range of conditions for obtaining those permits: some such as Alaska and Vermont, give permits to almost all gun owners. Others, such as New York, have firearm training requirements and exclude people with drinking problems or criminal records.
Among the opponents were 450 U.S. mayors who signed a full-page add in USA Today, say the bill, if passed, will put police and citizens in greater danger, reports CBS News correspondent Bob Orr.
"This is about as anti-police, pro-gun trafficker piece of legislation that has ever come before the United States Senate," said New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg Tuesday.
Sen. David Vitter, a Republican and another sponsor, reminded his colleagues that the NRA and Gun Owners of America were scoring the vote, meaning it would be considered in their election evaluation of lawmakers.
NRA chief lobbyist Chris W. Cox said the last two decades have shown a strong shift toward gun rights laws. "We believe it's time for Congress to acknowledge these changes and respect the right of self-defense, and the right of self-defense does not stop at state lines," he said.
Gun control groups were strongly in opposition.
The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said Mississippi residents can get a permit without any training, including ever shooting a pistol on a range. These permit holders could carry firearms in New York City, where police have broad discretion to deny permits, or Dallas, where permit applicants must undergo at least 10 hours of training.
© MMIX, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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- I can drive with my Dl in another state but cant carry in another state? Compair car accidents to gun accidents, doent make much sence.
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- First of all this is a response to all the stupid comments on here about Keeping the guns away from rednecks and insecure men. How many times have you watched the first 48 Fool? How many of the criminals on that program do you think had the CHL? I am not a man nor am i insecure. It is my right to carry. Theer are two kinds of people in this world, the ones who do and the ones who dont. I refuse to be a helpless victim to some blood sucking criminal just because it makes a few hippies nervouse. Wake up and smell the coffee this isnt the sixties. Its a dangerous and scarry world out there today and i have every right to protect myself and my children. Not to mention going shooting is good clean fun..
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- This seems simple enough, because of this the law breakers continue to carry weapons to prey on the law-abiding given the inability of our legal and law enforcement system to stop them and those of us who have gone through extensive background reviews to make sure we are no threat cannot. That makes sense. I would feel better if they passed a law that required manditory jail and caning for anyone caught with an illegal weapon... at least give some hope of meaningful penalty to those who we need to protect ourselves from.
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- This thing was never going to pass-more dog & pony show by the republicrats.
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- by OregonJames July 23, 2009 8:53 AM EDT
I am willing to stand up and protect myself and my community while you cower behind laws that will never protect you or your community, so which of us is really the coward? It isn't me. I am willing to break (stupid) laws in order to protect those I love and care for, yet you appear to cower in fear at the very thought of danger. No, I am not the coward.
I go everywhere and anywhere I want, and DO NOT need the protection of a gun to do it. I travel internationally, and domestically, and have NEVER needed a gun when I've traveled anywhere.
Do you know why?
Because I can defend myself, and am man enough to do it without the aid of a gun.
You on the other hand MUST have a gun on you at ALL TIMES, to "keep you safe", because you're afraid of every little shadow on the wall.
Who is the coward?
Please...... - Reply to this comment
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- You are lucky to have been safe all your life. I have not always been that lucky, nor do I believe for a moment that you are as tough and secure as you believe. Victims come in all sizes, shapes, and colors. I admire your view that you can handle yourself, but I think you are wrong. You may be unstoppable in some venue, but against a weapon you are just flesh.
I make no claim to strength, speed, or toughness. As a matter of fact I can say I am not tough at all. I am getting old and I am partially disabled by back issues. I couldn't defend myself in a fight with most people, nor am I fast enough to run away, and I refuse to cower in a corner or hide in my home. It is my world too, and I am free to get out into it without fear of muggers, buggers, killers, and thieves. I carry guns and I am sorry if that scares you, but your fear won't change a thing. Fear won't keep you safe...
- You are lucky to have been safe all your life. I have not always been that lucky, nor do I believe for a moment that you are as tough and secure as you believe. Victims come in all sizes, shapes, and colors. I admire your view that you can handle yourself, but I think you are wrong. You may be unstoppable in some venue, but against a weapon you are just flesh.
- by OregonJames July 23, 2009 8:34 AM EDT
I am not exempt from your state laws, but right to defend myself does not end at your state border. If your state law would prevent me from protecting myself, there is a flaw in your law.
You absolutely have the right to defend yourself.
Take a karate class.
I have the right to defend myself, so I vote for politicians that restrict stupid ideas - like carrying concealed weapons across state lines - that pass laws to keep me safe. My RIGHT to safety, trumps your RIGHT to carry a weapon.
If you're such a coward that you can't travel without a weapon, then just stay home. - Reply to this comment
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- I am willing to stand up and protect myself and my community while you cower behind laws that will never protect you or your community, so which of us is really the coward? It isn't me. I am willing to break (stupid) laws in order to protect those I love and care for, yet you appear to cower in fear at the very thought of danger. No, I am not the coward.
- by OregonJames July 23, 2009 8:26 AM EDT
Why would you assume that defending my family would trump any of your rights or make you any less safe? In some forty years of carrying a weapon I have never been a threat to anyone, nor has my weapon made anyone less safe. Instead it has made everyone around me MORE safe.
And what about those that "lose" their weapons, or have them stolen, or sell them to someone they hardly know?
Are you claiming that doesn't jeopardize MY safety?
Why do you believe, that YOU are exempt from MY STATE'S gun laws? - Reply to this comment
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- I am not exempt from your state laws, but right to defend myself does not end at your state border. If your state law would prevent me from protecting myself, there is a flaw in your law.
- You will never be safe from stolen or lost weapons, or from those that violate any laws. That is exactly why the right to bear arms is so important, and why I carry a concealed weapon. We are not safe and the police cannot protect us. It is the duty of each and every adult to protect ourselves and our communities from those that would threaten our safety.
- by OregonJames July 23, 2009 7:39 AM EDT
I have the right to defend myself and my family, and nobody can take that away. This right does not disappear if I travel to another state or even another country.
You're absolutely right - you DO have the right to defend yourself and your family.
But you DO NOT have the right to carry concealed weapons into MY STATE, jeopardizing MY SAFETY, and the safety of my fellow state citizens.
Why do you gun nuts always think that YOUR rights, trump EVERYONE ELSE'S rights? - Reply to this comment
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- Why would you assume that defending my family would trump any of your rights or make you any less safe? In some forty years of carrying a weapon I have never been a threat to anyone, nor has my weapon made anyone less safe. Instead it has made everyone around me MORE safe.
- by didserve July 23, 2009 6:32 AM EDT
Democrats keep messing with gun rights and they will be swept from office
"Messing with gun rights"?
Since when is carrying a concealed weapon across state lines, considered to be a "right"? - Reply to this comment
- Speaking only for myself, this makes no difference to me. When I go out I carry a concealed weapon. I have done this since I was a young man, long before I obtained a permit, and will as long as I live whether a permit is available or not. I have the right to defend myself and my family, and nobody can take that away. This right does not disappear if I travel to another state or even another country.
It would be nice if my permit made this legal everywhere, but it is foolish to believe I would give up my right to protect myself and my family because some politicians passed (or failed to pass) another stupid law.
Like the Constitution says, it is a RIGHT to speak freely, to associate with anyone you choose, to choose your own religion, and the RIGHT to bear arms. We do not need the permission of others. - Reply to this comment
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- abbe91, I admit that I must check in my concealed weapon when I fly, but it greets me at the baggage claim area when I arrive at my destination and assumes its concealed position when I have left the airport. Usually I just drive when I travel, so airport security isn't an issue.
- There is a simple way to preserve state rights and have people be allowed to cross state lines with a concealed weapon. It is to create a FEDERAL permit with requirements matching the most strict you can find. It would be equivalent to have a permit for each state and would avoid constitutional problems.
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- Democrats keep messing with gun rights and they will be swept from office
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- Good move by the Senate. CCW laws are STATE laws.
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- Mortarman29,
Forgot one word.
"Are you for real? Really?"
You said: "I guess our Founders were wingnuts too, because all of them were packing!"
If you're right about this, then, WHEN they didn't have their flintlock rifles with them, "all" the founding fathers were carrying their flintlock pistols in place of the rifles. Otherwise, they couldn't always be packing. Do you have any evidence that they were all packing since you said: "...because all of them were packing."? Or, do you just make things up you can't defend? - Reply to this comment
- Mortarman29,
"Are you for real? Really?"
You said: "I guess our Founders were wingnuts too, because all of them were packing!"
If you're right about this, then, they didn't have their flintlock rifles with them, "all" the founding fathers were carrying their flintlock pistols in place of the rifles. Otherwise, they couldn't always be packing. Do you have any evidence that they were all packing since you said: "...because all of them were packing."? Or, do you just make things up you can't defend? - Reply to this comment
- Mortarman29,
"Does that mean they were packing in the bath tub? Please dont be so silly!"
I'm sure you wish that painting was of the founding fathers taking a group bath. But, they weren't in a bath tub so don't be silly. They were signing the Declaration of Independence. If they always were packing, they'd have their big flintlock pistols with them during the signing. I don't see any. Not one in the painting. I don't think they were always packing and I think you made that up. - Reply to this comment
- Mortarman29,
Specifically, what kind of gun did Benjamin Franklin carry? Was it concealed or unconcealed? Remember, you said ALL of them were packing.
Also, go look at this famous painting of the signing of the declaration of independence.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Declaration_independence.jpg
Point out the guns in that picture. I don't see any. You should see at least a few of the founding fathers carrying a weapon if what you say is true. It's not like many had sub compacts back then. :) - Reply to this comment
- It's time for Republicans to get serious and prove they truly are against gun control. Republicans should advocate legal concealed carry on all commercial aircraft by anyone with a CCL. That would be a laugher.
They also should quit checking for weapons whenever a major Republican speaks before large gatherings. That's gun control too and I want to see top Republican leaders really walking the walk they talk. I want them out mingling with large groups of wingnuts with full knowledge that any of given wingnut could be packing. - Reply to this comment
- Mortarman29,
It looks to me as if states with less gun regulation have higher death rates from guns than states with more regulation. If you're not one of those top twenty states, you probably don't want people coming from those gun-happy states and carrying concealed handguns in your state. - Reply to this comment
- Well Mortar, it's almost been entertaining educating you again.
Maybe one day you can return the favor.
(I doubt it, but you never know. I might need information on how to "guess what's in the constitution", or "make information up as I go". I'll definitely come to you for that info, since you are certainly the expert.)
Have a good night. - Reply to this comment
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