October 16, 2009 7:52 AM

Patients Fret over Proposed Tylenol Limits

(AP)  Proposed limits on Tylenol, a painkiller as common as pain itself, have left many consumers fearful, confused and wondering where to turn for relief.

The potential government crackdown on acetaminophen, Tylenol's main ingredient, would affect everyone from occasional pill poppers to chronic pain sufferers who rely on daily doses to make their lives more bearable.

If adopted by the Food and Drug Administration, the changes would lower the maximum over-the-counter Tylenol dose and would ban two narcotic painkillers, Vicodin and Percocet, which also contain acetaminophen.

Yet another painkiller, propoxyphene, was the target of FDA action on Tuesday. Also sold as Darvon and in an acetaminophen combination called Darvocet, it has been linked to accidental overdoses and suicides. The prescription medication will now come with a pamphlet describing the risk.

Sharon Waldrop, a mother of two young boys in Royal Oak, Mich., takes Tylenol regularly for severe muscle pain. She knows about liver damage risks but says she "could not get by" with the proposed lower doses.

Karen Palmer of Cincinnati takes Percocet for debilitating rheumatoid arthritis and says it took five years to find medicine that really helps. "I don't want to have to go through that all over again," said the 46-year-old hotel worker, on disability because of the disease.

Dr. Ronnie Mandal, an internist at Chicago's Swedish Covenant Hospital, says he's gotten calls from worried elderly patients who saw the news on TV last week.

"Most of them are wondering, is it safe for me to use," he said.

For those on Tylenol, the short answer - from Mandal and other physicians - is yes, if used judiciously. Doctors say there's no reason to switch to other pain relievers, which can cause different problems.

But avoiding an acetaminophen overdose requires reading medicine bottles scrupulously and doing a little math because acetaminophen is often a hidden ingredient. Popping a few extra pills or mixing Tylenol with other medicines can quickly add up to too much. So can taking any of these drugs while drinking alcohol, which aggravates effects on the liver.

For users of the proposed banned narcotic drugs, which one liver expert likened to candy mixed with poison, options would be more limited, particularly given other recent clampdowns on narcotic painkillers.

"If these drugs were not available to our patients, there would be a stampede toward the doctor to try to figure out an alternative treatment for them because they're such widely used drugs," said Dr. Gil Fanciullo of the American Pain Society.

The results could be undertreatment of pain, or putting patients on even stronger narcotics. Better labeling of medicines that have acetaminophen is the answer, rather than making them less available, said Fanciullo, a pain management specialist at Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center in Lebanon, N.H.

Dave Duhrkoop, a retired marketing manager in Troutdale, Ore., has taken Vicodin and Percocet for severe back pain. He's now on a different drug but thinks banning the other two would be overkill. It could lead chronic pain sufferers to turn to street drugs "because people don't want to hurt."

According to the FDA, prescription acetaminophen combination drugs were prescribed 200 million times last year. Tylenol's maker says nearly 50 million U.S. adults and children take acetaminophen in any given week.

The panel's proposals, announced June 30, were prompted by concerns over acetaminophen overdoses, which are the leading cause of liver failure. They sicken more than 50,000 people and cause at least 200 deaths each year nationwide.

Poisoning is not believed to be a risk for long-term users of recommended Tylenol doses, and they do not need liver tests, said Dr. William M. Lee, a liver disease specialist at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas.

Liver problems associated with excessive use of Tylenol and other forms of the drug tend to occur suddenly. They typically show up within about three days of taking extra doses, Lee said, and even a few extra pills over a few days can cause problems.

That's why the FDA panel recommended making the current maximum single dose of Tylenol, 1,000 milligrams, available by prescription only. The new maximum single dose would be 650 mgs. The total daily limit would be cut from 4 grams, about 12 regular-strength Tylenol pills, to an unspecified lower dose.

Symptoms of liver problems include nausea, vomiting, upper abdominal pain and jaundice. With immediate treatment, permanent liver damage can be prevented.

The recommendations led Tylenol's manufacturer to run full-page ads in major newspapers Friday declaring the medicine is safe when used as directed. The ads also say never take more than recommend doses, and don't use two products containing acetaminophen at the same time. That includes over-the-counter cold medicines such as Nyquil and Theraflu, and prescription medicines also containing the drug.

The Arthritis Foundation issued a statement supporting the limits, saying that arthritis patients "must be made aware of potential side effects of drugs so they can decide about the level of risk they are willing to accept."

Lee, the Dallas liver specialist, also supports the proposed limits. He provided data on acetaminophen poisoning to the FDA advisory panel.

The full FDA is considering the recommendations, but any final decisions are months away.

The proposed ban on Vicodin and Percocet is justified because they're so easy to abuse, Lee said. The narcotics in these drugs are addictive and can lead users to take increasingly higher doses - but that also means increasingly higher amounts of acetaminophen.

Quoting a colleague, Lee said it makes no sense to combine a highly addictive drug with a "dose-related poison. It's like putting poison and candy together."

Oxycodone, the narcotic in Percocet, can be prescribed separately. But Vicodin's narcotic ingredient is hydrocodone, which isn't available alone.

The risks for liver failure justify the restrictions, Lee said.

© 2009 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Add a Comment See all 21 Comments
by PENWEL July 10, 2009 4:45 PM EDT
WE AMERICANS OVER-DOSE ON EVERYTHING. I'M NEVER SATIFIED WITH ONE PEANUT-BUTTER SANDWICHE, I HAVE TO EAT THE WHOLE JAR. I LIKE TYLENOL PAIN KILLERS. BUT THE NARCS ARE GOING TO KILL ME WITH AN UNDER-DOSE BEFORE I EVEN GET AN OVER-DOSE. IT'S GOING TO COST ME A WING/PRAYER TO EVEN GET A GOOD NIGHTS SLEEP WITHOUT PAIN. I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DOLLARS TO BUY STRONGER TYLENOL TO OVER-DOSE. I'LL KEEP UNDER-DOSING UNTIL MY DOLLARS RUN OUT AND I START USING PENNIES I WAS TOLD TO SAVE. I CAN'T SAVE ANYTHING TODAY. THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY EVEN MY PENNIES. WASHINGTON D.C. IS SHORT TRILLIONS OF MY TAX DOLLARS WITH THEIR HAPPY-HOUR SPENDING, AND MAKING ME UN-HAPPY. I HEAR THEY'RE ABOUT TO MUG ME IN D.C.(SHORT FOR DEAD CORPORAL) IF THEY TAKE AWAY MY SS/MEDCARE, I'M GOING TO START MY OWN TYLENOL FACTORY AND GIVE TYLENOL OVER-DOSES FREE TO ALL GRAVE-ROBBERS IN WASHINGTOM D.C. BING...
Reply to this comment
by HGOODGUY July 10, 2009 12:35 PM EDT
HEY RANTERS!!!

TRY CHECKING EMERGENCY ROOM STATISTICS FOR MAJOR STOMACH PROBLEMS DUE TO TYLENOL OVERDOSE!!!
Reply to this comment
by PENWEL July 10, 2009 12:21 AM EDT
PAIN IS HEAVENS E-MAIL TO ME THAT MY MOTOR NEEDS HELP. I DON'T NEED CHEAPER GAS TO KEEP MY MOTOR GOING, NOR DO I NEED CHEAPER PAIN KILLERS TO RELIEVE MY PAIN, WHICH WOULD ONLY COST ME MORE FINANCIALLY TO BUY MORE TYLENOL TO KEEP MY PAIN AWAY LIKE THE TYLENOL I USE REGULAR STRENGTH EVERY DAY, AND NIGHT. NOW CUT IN STRENGTH TO MAKE ME PURCHASE MORE TYLENOL TO STOP MY PAIN AS MY REGULAR STENGTH TYLENOL HAS BEEN RELIEVING MY PAIN FOR MANY YEARS. IF THE NARC. BOYS/GIRLS NEED MORE MOOLA. RAISE THE PRICE A PENNY, BUT NO MORE! A WEEKS SUPPLY OF PAIN-KILLER TYLENOL COSTS US OLD FOLK A WHOLE SS CHECK NOW. GOOD HEAVENS, DON'T SEND US OLD FOLK TO A FIRING SQUAD NEXT. THE BEST GENERATION HAS SEEN TOO MANY FIRING SQADS IN ONE LIFE-TIME -- BING...
Reply to this comment
by PENWEL July 9, 2009 5:38 PM EDT
IF THE SMALL RATION OF RUM IS TAKEN FROM A SAILOR. IT WILL SINK HIS SHIP. THE SAME APPLIES TO PERSONS IN PAIN. IF I WERE IN PHYSICAL, OR MENTAL UN-CONTROLLABLE PAIN. IT IS BETTER I SLEEP WITHOUT PAIN THAN HAVE SEVERE PAIN OF ANY KIND WITHOUT PAIN-KILLER MEDICENES TO AT LEAST EASE MY PAIN. IF I SHOULD BE IN SUCH PAIN WITHOUT PAIN-KILLER MEDICINES. IT IS ONLY MYSELF WHO SHOULD DECIDE IF I WISH TO CONTINUE USING ANY PAIN-KILLER MEDICINE WEAK/STRONG. PAIN ALONE IS THE DECIDER. I FEEL MY OWN PAIN/NO OTHERS FEEL MY PAIN. SYMPATHY PERHAPS. BUT THAT WON'T EASE MY PAIN. COULD MAKE MY PAIN WORSE. I WISH NO OTHERS TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR ME. I ENTERED THIS WORLD IN PAIN. I WILL LEAVE IT IN PAIN. ALL I WISH IS HELP TO CONTROL MY PAIN. NOT MY DIRECTION IN LIFE. I WISH TO DECIDE MYSELF HOW STRONG MY TYLENOL OR ANY PAIN MEDICINE THAT RELIEVES MY OWN PAIN. IT IS MY OWN DECISION ON HOW STRONG A PAIN-KILLER MEDICINE I NEED, TO RELIEAVE MY OWN PAIN. BING...
Reply to this comment
by purpleenergy July 9, 2009 12:04 PM EDT
Linda Goodman?s, Tesla Purple Positive Energy Plates are now available in INDIA For $8.00 only + FREE SHIPPING [upto 30th june 2009]
Processed & Developed by VEDIC RESEARCH & INNOVATIONS, Uttranchal, these plates are designed for LIFE LONG USE on Human Animals & Plants. These are UNIVERSAL FREE ENERGY PRODUCTS [Pran] & are the only Natural Tools to provide protection from ELECTRO MAGNETIC RADIATION which results in all kinds of COMPUTER RELATED INJURIES, ie- Pain, Stress, Fatigue, Depression, Suicidal Tendencies, etc, etc.
It is a Multiutility product, which PROVIDES RELIEF WITHIN 20 MINUTES in MIGRAINE, BACK PAIN, SPONDALITIES, NAUSEA & VOMITING ,Cuts, Burns etc, etc .No body contact is necessary. It?s a perfect Pain Reliever & u wouldn?t have to rush to HOSPITAL for a sudden Spondalities attack or a SUDDEN TOOTHACHE, Migraine or whatever, if u have a purple plate with u.
For $8.00 only + FREE SHIPPING[upto 30th june 2009]
Linda Goodman In her book, STAR SIGNS, write about the purple energy plates & how it can really change anybody?s life & why Pregnant Mothers treat these plates as a precious jewel & how one can use these ESOTERIC plates to influence others.
For !!! INSOMNIA,EPILEPSY & OTHER MENTAL DISORDERS, place the Tesla Plate beneath the pillow & Experience the blissful SLEEP & improvement in EPILEPSY from day one.
Keeps flowers & food enerzised
Web:purpleenergyproducts.com
Please visit for catalogue!!!! http://s642.photobucket.com/albums/uu148/teslaindia_photos/
Linda Goodman?s Superb Tesla Purple Positive Energy Plates may be the RIGHT GIFT for someone near & dear, who wants to relax, sleep better, meditate, block out unwanted noises, enhance concentration, or feel more alert, comfortable & ENERGISED.
1-Credit Card Size -------$5.00 {Rs 250.00]
2-Post Card Size --------$14.00 [Rs 700.00]
3-Small Plate ----------- -$8.00 {Rs 350.00 IN INDIA[2.75 by 4.5 inches]
4-Large Plate ----------- $36.00 [Rs 1800.00] 12 by 12 inches
5-Holy Disc[Ganesh]----$6.00 [Rs 299.00][radius 2 in.]
6-Pets Disc----------------$4.00 [Rs 199.00][radius 1 in.]
7-Cell Guard----------$4.00 [Rs 199.00][radius 1 in.]
Minimum order $ 50.00 to avail free shipping

For Vedic Research & Innovations
Krisshan Kant Sundriyal
20/1 Rajinder Nagar Industrial Area
Sahibabad: GBD; UP
INDIA
Email & Messenger : teslaindia@gmail.com
# 09873287974
Skype: purpleenergy: +9101204563658
Reply to this comment
by iowa0319 July 8, 2009 4:24 PM EDT
If they lowered the dose, wouldn't people just take more quantity of pills to get up to their usual dose? If they want to really control vicoden and percocet deal with the doctors who prescribe it too freely.
Reply to this comment
by mandylou4u July 8, 2009 10:39 AM EDT
Instead of trying to find a drug to make pain go away, change your diet, get more sleep, exercise, get off your butt and do something! Pain releavers are there for things like having a baby or surgery, something major that you can't hardly fight off with the strength of your mind. Stop being lazy America! Take care of yourselves and stop depending on drugs to make you feel better. I'm done, sorry for the rant.
Reply to this comment
by Sloughfoot July 9, 2009 11:39 AM EDT
Women have been having babies without drugs for longer than they have. Give it a try.
by whatsup49 July 8, 2009 10:28 AM EDT
we, as patients and consumers, have an obilgation to ourselves and our families, to know what we're putting into our bodies, and how much is safe, and how much is too much. i used darvocet for years to control my chronic pain, and it worked well, until recently, when additional back surgery went wrong. i'm now taking a much stronger drug that, according to my pain management doctor, killed 4,000 people last year simply because they took one or two pills too many.
we read labels on our food, we should be reading them on our meds. and those people who abuse otc and RX drugs simply because they like the high or believe that more is better, are stupid.

Better labeling and patient education are the answer. cut off those patients who can't or won't follow directions.
Reply to this comment
by docpeter1953 July 8, 2009 8:03 AM EDT
From the above article, "Better labeling of medicines that have acetaminophen is the answer, rather than making them less available, said Fanciullo, a pain management specialist..."
_____________________________

And there you have it folks, the best and most reasonable answer to the whole situation!. While acetaminophen is catching the most of the blame here; the real blame should go to the doctors and pharmacists who fail to inform the patient that while they are on Darvocet, Percocet, or Vicodin not to take additional acetaminophen for their pain or drink any alcoholic beverages as this WILL lead to liver damage.

The acetaminophen isn't the problem, it has been around for 40+ years, it has only become a problem recently due to over use/prescribing with the other combinations of narcotics. Now the entire medical community is doing a "knee jerk" reaction trying to get another doctor visit out of you to get a prescription for acetaminophen, and they will likely be successful since they have the help of the FDA.
Reply to this comment
by Sloughfoot July 8, 2009 10:02 AM EDT
Good insight and additions to the article. Combing acetaminophen with other ingredients and renaming it Nyquil and Theraflu or whatever could add to the problem. However, most likely it is consumer-one is good so two have to be better and I don't think we will change that.
by rf35 July 8, 2009 7:08 AM EDT
This is a terrible idea. Reducing the doses will just cause people to take extra pills to get the same effect and will wind up causing MORE overdose issues because many will not know how much extra to take and err on the high side.
As for Vicodin and Percocet, maybe the focus should be on punishing those few who abuse it or allow it to be abused rather than punishing all those who use it as directed under supervision of a doctor. Vicodin is the only thing that seems to work for my wifes occasional bouts of severe IBS pain. Taking it off the market would sentence her to periods of intolerable pain when the IBS flares up. Thanks FDA...you've really been screwing the pooch lately. I think it might be time to totally cut the agency and start over from scratch.
Reply to this comment
by dirtbikegrl July 9, 2009 11:54 AM EDT
I have to agree, you sound like a complete idiot!!! This isn't about politics so why do you need to make it political???? So many people are too quick to blame others when they don't properly use medications, cars, guns, & so forth & so on. It seems to me that idiots really are everywhere.
See all 21 Comments
.
Scroll Left
Scroll Right More »
Better Information. Better Health.
CBS News on Facebook