U.S. Cautious on Calling Honduras a "Coup"

Washington Post: Obama Called Military Ouster Illegal, But Clinton Stopped Short of Formally Branding It a Coup

(Washington Post)  This story was written by Mary Beth Sheridan.

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President Obama said yesterday that the military ouster of Honduran President Manuel Zelaya was illegal and could set a "terrible precedent," but Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the United States government was holding off on formally branding it a coup, which would trigger a cutoff of millions of dollars in aid to the impoverished Central American country.

Clinton's statement appeared to reflect the U.S. government's caution amid fast-moving events in Honduras, where Zelaya was detained and expelled by the military on Sunday. The United States has joined other countries throughout the hemisphere in condemning the coup. But leaders face a difficult task in trying to restore Zelaya to office in a nation where the National Congress, military and Supreme Court have accused him of attempting a power grab through a special referendum.

Peter Hakim, president of the Inter-American Dialogue in Washington, said the situation presented a dilemma for the United States and other countries. Zelaya is "fighting with all the institutions in the country," Hakim said. "He's in no condition really to govern. At the same time, to stand by and allow him to be pushed out by the military reverses a course of 20 years."

U.S. officials had tried ahead of time to avert the coup, warning the Honduran military and politicians against suspending democratic order. The U.S. ambassador to Honduras, Hugo Llorens, sheltered one of Zelaya's children to prevent him from being harmed, according to Carlos Sosa, Honduras's ambassador to the Organization of American States.

But the Obama administration has had cool relations with Zelaya, a close ally of Venezuela's anti-American president, Hugo Chávez. While U.S. officials say they continue to recognize Zelaya as president, they have not indicated they are willing to use the enormous U.S. clout in the country to force his return.

Asked whether it was a U.S. priority to see Zelaya reinstalled, Clinton said: "We haven't laid out any demands that we're insisting on, because we're working with others on behalf of our ultimate objectives."

John D. Negroponte, a former senior State Department official and ambassador to Honduras, said Clinton's remarks appeared to reflect U.S. reluctance to see Zelaya returned unconditionally to power.

"I think she wants to preserve some leverage to try and get Zelaya to back down from his insistence on a referendum," he said.

Zelaya clashed with the Honduran Congress, Supreme Court and military in recent weeks, particularly over his promotion of a referendum that might have permitted him to run for another four-year term. The Congress and Supreme Court said the referendum was illegal.

The Congress overwhelmingly voted to depose Zelaya after he had been forcibly removed. Lawmakers then named a new president, Roberto Micheletti, from the same party.

Obama repeated yesterday that the United States viewed Zelaya as Honduras's president and that "the coup was not legal."

"It would be a terrible precedent if we start moving backwards into the era in which we are seeing military coups as a means of political transition, rather than democratic elections," he told reporters after a meeting with Colombian President Álvaro Uribe.

Clinton told reporters that the situation in Honduras had "evolved into a coup" but that the United States was "withholding any formal legal determination" characterizing it that way.

"We're assessing what the final outcome of these actions will be," she said. "Much of our assistance is conditioned on the integrity of the democratic system. But if we were able to get to a status quo that returned to the rule of law and constitutional order within a relatively short period of time, I think that would be a good outcome."

The Obama administration has pledged to work more closely with Latin America and not dictate policy in its traditional back yard. But the United States has several points of leverage: It is Honduras's biggest trading partner, and President Obama has requested $68 million in development and military aid for 2010. Portions of that aid, which are provided directly to the government, would be cut off in the event of a coup. Congressional officials said last night they were not sure exactly how much that amounted to. Honduras also is a recipient of a five-year, $215 million Millennium Challenge grant that is conditioned on the country remaining a democracy.

The United States also has a close military relationship with Honduras. Hundreds of Honduran officers participate in U.S. military training programs each year, more than most other Western Hemisphere countries.

Among those who have attended such training is the senior military officer of Honduras, Gen. Romeo Vasquez, who was dismissed by Zelaya prior to the coup. After that dismissal, other senior Honduran military leaders resigned, including the Air Force commander, Gen. Luis Javier Prince Suazo.

Vasquez attended the Pentagon-run School of the Americas in 1976 and 1984, and Suazo attended in 1996, according to Army records of graduates obtained by a watchdog group. A spokesman for the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation, which replaced the School of the Americas in 2001, said the records of graduates obtained by the group, School of Americas Watch, are accurate.

"We have a strong military relationship with them and in . . . military exchange training that takes place, we emphasize civilian control of the military" as well as human rights and the rule of law, Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said.

A contingent of about 600 U.S. military personnel is based at Soto Cano Air Base in Honduras as part of Joint Task Force Bravo, which mainly supports disaster relief, humanitarian assistance, peacekeeping and counternarcotics activities in Honduras and the region.

The Organization of American States has summoned the hemisphere's foreign ministers to Washington to discuss the crisis. Clinton said the United States is pushing for a delegation to be sent to Honduras after the session.

The United States has been a strong backer of the Inter-American Democratic Charter, a document signed by OAS members in 2001 that commits them to observe the "right to democracy." Violators can be suspended from the organization.

OAS members issued a statement calling for "the immediate, safe and unconditional return" of Zelaya to the presidency.

[Ernesto2009]

After the elections in Honduras, the winner would not have the necessary legitimacy facing the international community because his replacement would come from a government coup.

Well, if we go into that mechanics we should not call legitimite any of the elected governments in Latin America because they were all dictatorships relay, and consequently all following presidents inherited their status as illegitimate for the same reason. Otherwise, we would have to accept that to legitimize these governments, dictatorships have had been legitimate. We could take things even further and consider all the statements of independence were coups but against the European crowns. Because of that principle that there are no ?good? coups.

As I stated in an email I sent to President Obama to the White House, here it?s being defended the legitimacy of a government over democracy, the right of Honduran people to defend themselves. Because if we talk about legitimacy, nothing better than legitimate Absolutism: by blood and by divine right.

I?m South American and in NO other previous coup I?ve witnessed people taking streets with flags to celebrate the new government!!! Never: as we saw them at the main square in Tegucigalpa shortly after the news of the destitution came out. This states a big difference but noone seems to care about what people have to say, only what politicians have to. Then we wonder why the world goes this wrong! What a shame! Defending a president that ignores his own Constitution, he swore to keep????? What a big big shame!!!

"The OAS and the UN are institutions showed more devote to defend legitimacy any costs, over the free will of the people. What a shame! These issues would have to be reviewed after the events in Honduras and the lessons we take from that.

? What democracy is "indeed" in our time.
? Whether it means in cases the simple and crude "legitimacy" for abuse, or a system where people can act, move, speak freely with the only limits of the others' rights and the law.
? If we let the people with their internal problems to implement internal solutions, while respecting their sovereignty every time or apply bulling from the outside in complete violation of the Statement of OAS and UN???. Don?t fool yourselves. Cold War was never over!!! This is the evidence and watch new alliances in South America with Iran, Libya and Palestine!

? if the true role of the OAS and UN is as the one of the Vatican?s when the Absolutism, condemning people to the atrocities of their government at the time "legitimized", in accordance with political pendulum in modern History, with a General Secretary who owes favors in exchange for votes and allows all kind of abuse and bulling, to hasten their statements, and by the way invalidating the mediation role that gives OAS and UN their main reason to exist.

[kastner63]

I am disappointed at this cautious attitude. The putsch was illegal, it was a coup, and one should call the matter as it is, not as one would wish it. Whether Mr. Zelaya was left or right, does not matter, he was legally elected. His attempt to remove the term limits was conducted (at least so far) within the legal institutions of his country. If Obama and Clinton want to be seen as serious about their talk of Democracy that they aim in Cuba's direction, they must break off relations to the military, suspend aid, and get Mr. Zelaya reinstated peacefully with a promise by the military that it will keep out of civilian affairs in the future.

[anelearevir]

Look, he was legally elected, but was not acting legally anymre. We (the honduran people) chose to get him out, becuase he was putting in jeopardy our democracy, he was totally acting out of the Constitution and that is a reason to be suspended from your position as president. We were to supposed to see him be drunk in power just doing the referendum when it was not aprroved by congress. The military are not in power, we chose another president, in the way our constitution dictates it. I think it is time that the people stop the polititians when they are acting out of the limits they should be in. Sure, we chose him but we chose him to guide us well, not ilegaly.

[prometheus21]

I think I'm beginning to see through the contrived murk of ignorance.

First, for people out there who really don't understand the fundamental principles of most democracies, the LEGISLATIVE branch is the ONLY branch that can ammend the constitution.

With that out of the way, the current Honduras constitution does not allow ammendment of certain constitutional provisions. These consist of the amendment process itself, as well as provisions covering the form of government, national territory, and several articles covering the presidency, including term of office and prohibition from reelection.

These are restrictions on AMENDING the Constitution, and as such are restrictions on the National Congress, which is the only body that can AMMEND the Constitution.

There is NO WAY IN HELL that the President of Honduras can AMMEND the Constitution by himself. So it is VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the President of Honduras to be "impeached" (if that word can even be used here, assuming there is some kind of due process for impeachment which includes a list of articles for impeachment) for anything to do with AMENDING the Constitution.

Now, there is something VERY FUNDAMENTAL to democracies that is envisioned as the RIGHT of the people to assemble and petition their government. A proposal for a referendum to establish a constitutionally recognized body that can propose a new constitution without amendment is such a RIGHT. Nobody, including the President of Honduras should be denied the right to assemble and petition for change subsequently through some kind of democratic process recognized by the Constitution. Otherwise, you would force the people into revolution. Nobody is saying that the petition can even succeed or what the terms are for that petition to succeed as recognized by the Constitution, only that it can exist and can succeed, because the government cannot prevent these opportunities (at least in the U.S.). This isn't about amendments to the Constitution.

Is that clear now?

[prometheus21]

correction to above

Nobody is saying that the petition WILL succeed or what the terms are for that petition to succeed as recognized by the Constitution, only that it can exist and can succeed, because the government cannot prevent these opportunities (at least in the U.S.)

[Ceres6]

No one has to be a genius to see that Mr. Manuel Zelaya, an undisputed puppet of Hugo Chavez, had the intention of becoming one more little dictator in Latin America. When Hugo Chavez says play dead, the incompetent and corrupt former president of Manuel Zelaya plays dead, and when Chavez demands a display of affection, Mr. Zelaya salivates and jumps.

Mr. Zelaya was obsessed about changing the Honduran constitution, to open the way for his perpetual reelection, and he was supported by Mr. Chavez. Mr. Zelaya was told by the Honduran Congress, the Supreme Court, and the Military Forces not to mess up with the constitution, and he just went ahead, ignoring all of them. Although the removal of an elected president is a serious business, we don't have to cry for Mr. Zelaya, who was, without a doubt, committing treason against his own people.

Three days ago, Mr. Chavez said to the media that Obama promised him that he was not going to interfere in the Venezuelan affairs. I don't know if that is true, but if it is, I hope Mr. Obama is aware of all the things at stake in the region. I admire Mr. Obama, but I hope he is wise enough to protect the interests of the people that elected him. In Youtube anyone can see a number of political speeches given by Mr. Chavez barely a year ago, in which several times he screamed vulgarities and he said that American people were human excrement.

American people should be made aware that Mr. Chavez is not just an inoffensive clown. Give him an inch, and he will stab you in the back. He has a demented hatred against the United States. It is not just hate against former president Bush. It is hate for everything sacred to the American people.

This is a unique opportunity for the United States to support the people of Honduras. If Mr. Obama allows Mr. Chavez to get away with the bullying of Honduras and the imposition of another dictatorship in Central America, then it is only a matter of time for the reputation and influence of the United States in Latin America to suffer irreversibly, and for other countries to fall and become pawns of the Caribbean Idi Amin of Mr. Chavez.

[pepperwood2]

I think that BO & his super smart SOS should immediately apply UN to Sanction that pitifully small & weak Country. The protocol is all in that clever book that Chavez gave BO to read when BO made friends with him on his visit to Venezuela. The Dynamic Duo - So Sad & disgusting!

[hclinton2012]

President Barack Obama seems to be supporting DICTATORSHIPS? By wanting to re-instate this Mel Zelaya as President, when it is very clear that the country did what is "right" in removing him as the Honduras Constitution allows!

[endurorob]

by Illuminated1 June 30, 2009 9:50 AM PDT
Its fascinating to read some of the desperation in the neocon postings...
At every junction possible the neocons blame Obama for everything that happens in the world.
It is obvious the republicans are in decline and are attacking with the most abusive language and scorn for being losers....
The GOP has been misleading good people for years with preaching from the pulpit and flag waving whenever necessary...
The GOP has moved so far to the right, they are on the verge of falling right off the balancing bar and whenever they even look left....all they see is communism.


We should all strive to reach the leftist idealism of Hugo Chavez and pals.

[Illuminated1]

Its fascinating to read some of the desperation in the neocon postings...
At every junction possible the neocons blame Obama for everything that happens in the world.
It is obvious the republicans are in decline and are attacking with the most abusive language and scorn for being losers....
The GOP has been misleading good people for years with preaching from the pulpit and flag waving whenever necessary...
The GOP has moved so far to the right, they are on the verge of falling right off the balancing bar and whenever they even look left....all they see is communism.

[endurorob]

by prometheus21 June 30, 2009 9:27 AM PDT

And why would anyone assume Negroponte's assessment is accurate, when the Obama administration has already correctly interpeted this as an illegal crime against the Honduras constitution and people who elected Zelaya as their Presidente.



Correctly interpreted? Zelaya was trying to run an illegal referendum and enlisted the assistance of Chavez in this attempt. Both the congress and supreme court declared him to be wrong and ordered the military to legally remove him. How can Obamas assesment be correct?

[hclinton2012]

This LOSER of a President Barack Obama doesn't support Honduras Constitution and their democracy! Re-instating this DICTATOR is wrong and the USA shouldn't support any effort in his returning as President of their country! What a JOKE this LOSER of a President Obama has become?

[prometheus21]

Asked whether it was a U.S. priority to see Zelaya reinstalled, Clinton said: "We haven't laid out any demands that we're insisting on, because we're working with others on behalf of our ultimate objectives."

John D. Negroponte, a former senior State Department official and ambassador to Honduras, said Clinton's remarks appeared to reflect U.S. reluctance to see Zelaya returned unconditionally to power.

"I think she wants to preserve some leverage to try and get Zelaya to back down from his insistence on a referendum," he said.

From wikipedia on Negroponte:

From 1981 to 1985, Negroponte was the U.S. ambassador to Honduras. During this time, military aid to Honduras grew from $4 million to $77.4 million a year, and the US began to maintain a significant military presence there, with the goal of providing a bulwark against the revolutionary Sandinista government of Nicaragua, a Leftist party which had driven out the Somoza dictatorship.

I think Negroponte is a zealot and former ambassador to Honduras under President REAGAN during the height of the Iran-Contra CRIME against the U.S. Constitution and taxpayer in an effort to back DICTATORSHIPS in South and Central America, while trading weapons to IRAN through ISRAEL.

Christ. Does this OPINION MATTER? What's Oliver North's take on this, any other sociopaths from that administration we need to address?

And why would anyone assume Negroponte's assessment is accurate, when the Obama administration has already correctly interpeted this as an illegal crime against the Honduras constitution and people who elected Zelaya as their Presidente.

[prometheus21]

More on Negroponte from wikipedia:

Substantial evidence subsequently emerged to support the contention that Negroponte was aware that serious violations of human rights were carried out by the Honduran government, but despite this did not recommend ending U.S. military aid to the country. Senator Christopher Dodd of Connecticut, on September 14, 2001, as reported in the Congressional Record, aired his suspicions on the occasion of Negroponte's nomination to the position of UN ambassador:

Based upon the Committee's review of State Department and CIA documents, it would seem that Ambassador Negroponte knew far more about government perpetrated human rights abuses than he chose to share with the committee in 1989 or in Embassy contributions at the time to annual State Department Human Rights reports.[4]

Among other evidence, Dodd cited a cable sent by Negroponte, in 1985, that made it clear that Negroponte was aware of the threat of "future human rights abuses" by "secret operating cells" left over by General Gustavo Álvarez Martinez, the chief of the Honduran armed forces, after he was forcibly removed from his post by fellow military commanders in 1984.

Does this sound like someone who's opinion about the Honduras people and constitution matters?

[schotzy81]

I'm embarrassed by this disgraceful "leader" we have in Obama. He takes a week to support liberty in Iran and yet immediately joins in with Chavez and the Castros in supporting the Honduran socialist trying to take over his country. This is in addition to his indecision in the Georgian/Russian conflict during the campaign last year.

3 years, 7 months until we can be rid of this disaster.

[hclinton2012]

After President Obama's second term, he will have the US Constitution changed, so he can be proclaimed "President for Life"! What a JOKE this LOSER this President Barack Obama has become?

[USSAmerikan]

The Honduran Supreme Court, Congress, Military and even Mel Zelaya's own party were in agreement that the man was out to crown himself dictator for life through an illegal and immoral change to the Honduran Constitution. That same document, THEIR constitution, allows for the removal of a president who puts their country in jeopardy... This was a legal removal of a president who had brought "independent" observers from Venezuela and Nicaragua, sent by Chavez and Ortega and who was planning to turn his country into a single-party-rule copy of Venezuela and Nicaragua...

[shawshank22]

Obama,Chavez,Castro............Peas in a pod.Did anyone doubt who the messiah would side with?

[pepperwood2]

U.S. Cautious on Calling Honduras a "Coup" - Washington Post: Obama Called Military Ouster Illegal, But Clinton Stopped Short of Formally Branding It a Coup.

Here we go again with the dynamic duo - BO & SOS - They did such a good job antagonizing & terrorizing N.Korea - European Union - Iran - Afghanistan - Iraq that they think its time to pick on a smaller helpless country. SO Sad! Maybe Chavez will give BO another book to read about how to bully the weaker Countries.

[endurorob]

ereHsdadhgaB-2010 June 30, 2009 8:34 AM PDT
This is far from being considered a "coup". The guy wanted to promote a coup and stay as President forever like his buddy Hugo Chavez.So before he carried out a coup the military removed him.


And the military did this under orders from congress. Sounds democratic to me.

[USSAmerikan]

Spot on, my friend... A traditional coup costs hundreds of lives and the head of the military crowns himself "president". In this case, the Honduran Congress, the Supreme Court and the Military were all against Mel Zelaya's attempt to change their constitution and elect himself to a life term... Congress ordered his ousting and the military executed it. Now the Honduran congress has elected his temporary replacement, who happens to be the head of Congress and not a military gorilla, and who by law will relinquish power and not be eligible to run in November. Zelaya? He should have been jailed and charged with attempting to subvert the constitution rather than sent to Costa Rica in a private jet, but that is just my opinion.

[Norman_Manasa]

What these folks need is the "Bill of Rights," the great gift the Founding Fathers gave to America and to the entire world.

Download free copies of the "Refrigerator Door Bill of Rights" at: www.National-Education-Project.org

Have your kids sign it, add their school picture, and post it on your refrigerator door (hence, the name).

Or send it to anyone you wish, anywhere.

The liberties of the people. That is, all the people of the world.

Free.

Norman Manasa
Director
The National Education Project, Inc.
Washington, D.C. 20002

[prometheus21]

Particularly that first one with regard to being able to limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I'd say the Honduras Congress has pretty much limited that right through referendum or even proposition for referendum in a pretty big way.

Considering that apparently is the CRIME for which they decided to avoid the frivolties of due process for impeachment and go the straight route through bloodless coup.

This act by the Congress of Honduras is probably the most reprehensible one you can do to people in a democracy. That of complete denial to assemble or even protest for change in the constitution.

What freaking amazes me is the number of people commenting in favor of this illegal takeover of the elected President's office who are the VERY SAME individuals supporting a minority opposition in Iran. According to what they're supporting in Honduras, a minority would not even have the remotest chance to petition for any change, least of all through referendum to even consider change to the structure of government or constitution of Iran.

Truly the rotting center of the disease killing American democracy.

[gsoguy]

Lets see. The President of Honduras wants to be like Hugo in Venezuela. So, he wants a constitutional amendment to allow him to run for office again just like Hugo. However, the Honduran constitution says a constitutional type convention can only be called by the Congress and they refused. He says he will do it himself and he orders the military to print ballots for the election. The military asks the Honduran Supreme Court for a ruling since they are caught between Congress and the President. The Honduran Supreme court rules against the President and the President then orders ballots printed in "guess where".. just wait... Hugo land.... So, the military after receiving orders from the Supreme Court and Congress that the President is illegally subverting the Constitution arrests the President and sends him to exile. Meanwhile, the November election goes on as the Constitution calls for without the current leftist running again as the Constitution says.

Now Hugo, the leftist European Union and leftist Obama side with the President and against the legal authority in Honduras. What would happen here if the US Supreme Court handed down a ruling? Would President Obama ignore it and bring about the same crisis in the US. Probably so since he sides with the leftists.

I'll side with the Constitutional authority in Honduras and the US and not the President unlike lefty Obama

[casionova]

I'll side with the majority of voters who elected the president and not the military

[antropologo]

I'll side with the Constitution of Honduras which explicitly states that the Supreme Court can order the Army to enforce their rulings when necessary.

[anelearevir]

I really think you couldn´t have understood the situation any better. I am Honduran, and it is so unbelievable how people side with the ex president. He was warned several times that he was not acting constitutionally but he got so drunk in power, that he just wanted to do things his way, plus he has Chavez that has his back. The military just followed and order and they took him out with no blodd shattered. The military is not in power so they just can´t call it a coup. The new president was elected out of the congress and was unanimously voted by the Congress. I do think they should of just arrrested him but, there was no way things could have benn done internally because there would have been resistance and it could have become messier. At least now, if he does return to the country, he has 18 charges against him. I can´t believe how the ONU is supporting this guy 100% is he has been known for his leftist behavior. They haven´t really been informed or they just don´t wanna see that we needed to get him out before it was to late and luckily we got rid of him but we will be paying the consequences for doing what our constitution says. He was not acting legaly and we only did what we had to do.I do believe that democracy at least for us (third world countries) is a joke because we chose our president in a democratic way, but since the world isn't ok with that, they will force us to accept the ex president. WE DON'T WANT HIM BACK!!!!And we won´t, even if that means loosing all the economic help from the US, and you know what, better, because calling this a coup is showing left tendencies! We want nothing to do with that. We do not wanna go through what Venezuela went through, it is time that we speak up againts the world if necesarry!!

[rocketjl]

Good grief, haven't gotten our noses into enough of other peoples business. The President seems to be sending a message, regardless of what he says, that he is setting the stage for bad guys to be in power everywhere. An ugly picture is starting to develop and as time goes on, we may see the US put in a real bad situation, while Obama returns to Africa.

[vistavermin1]

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 31% of the nation's voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-three percent (33%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -2. That matches the lowest level yet recorded.

The people are waking up and it's a nightmare. Stop Obama Don't buy GM....

[IrishWench01]

""by bannednancy June 30, 2009 7:45 AM PDT
Dream on, little girl. Dream on.""

Perhaps this one works for Chrysler.