Bodies Suggest Plane Broke Up In Air

Experts: Multiple Fractures In Recovered Bodies From Air France Flight 447 Point To Midflight Break-Up

(AP)  Bodies recovered in the Air France disaster show multiple fractures in the legs, hips and arms, a Brazilian official said Wednesday. Experts said such injuries suggest the plane broke up in the air.

A spokesman for Brazilian medical examiners told The Associated Press that autopsies on an undisclosed number of the 50 bodies recovered so far showed the fractures. The official spoke on condition he not be named due to department rules.

The description of the bodies and large pieces of the plane recovered point to the jet breaking apart in the air, said Frank Ciacco, a former forensic expert at the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board.

"Typically, if you see intact bodies and multiple fractures - arm, leg, hip fractures - it's a good indicator of a midflight break up," Ciacco said. "Especially if you're seeing large pieces of aircraft as well."

On Wednesday, the O Estado de S. Paulo newspaper - citing unamed investigators - reported the pattern of fractures and said some of the victims were found with little or no clothing. The newspaper earlier reported the bodies also showed no signs of burns.

Jack Casey, an aviation safety consultant in Washington, D.C., who is a former accident investigator, said the lack of clothing could be significant: "In an in-air break up like we are supposing here, the clothes are just torn away."

He also said multiple fractures are consistent with a midair breakup of the plane.

"Getting ejected into that kind of windstream is like hitting a brick wall - even if they stay in their seats, it is a crushing effect," Casey said. "Most of them were long dead before they hit the water would be my guess."

When a jet crashes into water mostly intact - such as the Egypt Air plane that hit the Atlantic Ocean after taking off from New York in 1999 - the debris and bodies are broken into small pieces, Ciacco said.

"When you've had impact in the water, there is a lot more fragmentation of the bodies. They hit the water with a higher force," he said.

Lack of burn evidence would not necessarily rule out an explosion somewhere outside the passenger cabin, said John Goglia, a former member of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board.

If something caused the lower fuselage to burn or explode, "passengers would not be exposed to any blast damage" and the plane would still disintegrate in flight," he said. "These are scenarios that cannot be ruled out."

[Gpawilli]

I too received the two photos mentioned above. I received them from my brother who works for an airline. I am not sure how he got but I doubted their validity immediately because of the daylight.

Turns out they were from the series "LOST"

Dont always beleive what you see or read...... I plan to post the photos and the debunking of them on my blog... www.2288beckleyrd.blogspot.com

[erasmus111]

by goeswest June 18, 2009 6:04 AM PDT

I really do truly feel sorry for you and the millions of others who are afficted with this phobia.


Hey, you don't need to feel sorry for me. I'm happy driving wherever I need to go, in my car.: )

The people I feel sorry for are the ones that are in the next plane crash.

It's actually a miracle that there isn't more. I know people that work at the airport. They say that there are "incidents" and near misses everyday that the public doesn't hear about. Also, one works on the planes, and he says that if we knew how badly they are maintained, none of us would fly.

[goeswest]

erasmus

So unfortunate that you have such a stong case of flying phobia for you show the classic sign.As you said YOU WANT TO BE IN CONTROL
I was once that way too,had a terrible flying phobia,but overcame
that in 2005 and flew for the first time in my life and since then now I've flown to Europe and to Australia and many other places that you will probably never see for your irrational fear keeps you firmly planted on the ground.One more thing even when you drive,you are not really in full control.You still have to be aware of the idiots on the road in their cars.Yes another plane could hit my plane but the chances of that happening are just SO REMOTE,yes my plane could crash but it takes multiple failures to bring down an aircraft,while it takes just one drunk driver in another car to kill you.

I know that my words here will not persuade you.I really do truly feel sorry for you and the millions of others who are afficted with this phobia.

Best wishes

[mick7744]

On the day following the crash of Flight 477, right after watching news coverage of the disaster, I happened to watch a broadcast on the National Geographic Channel of 'Earth Investigated' dealing with the rapid loss of the planet's magnetic field. They seemed to be using the same maps that were being used on the news broadcasts to provide crash coverage.

It was mainly concerning an area east of Brazil in the South Atlantic known as the 'South Atlantic Anomaly' that covers 2 million square miles where the magnetic field is much weaker. An area that is growing rapidly.

The report said that satellites like the Hubble Space Telescope are powered down when orbiting over that area so as not to sustain damage to their delicate instrumentation and even went on to comment that commercial aircraft might be the first to suffer the effects of this bombardment of the solar winds without adequate protection from the magnetic field. The report mentioned instrument failure and possible structural damage.

This would seem to indicate that at least NASA was aware of the potential danger.

Is this possibility being investigated, or is everyone too worried about the loss of passenger revenue? Perhaps the various powers-that-be made the same callous, greed-inspired decision that Ford made when confronted with the Pinto?s penchant for bursting into flames when rear ended. It was decided that it would be cheaper to settle the resulting lawsuits for death and injury than to make the vehicle safer.

The well publicized phrase that was attributed to Ford when the scandal broke was, ?Let `em burn? or in this case, ?let `em suffer sudden, fatal lung decompression in -50 C temperatures a few miles up over an icy ocean.?

Maybe the plane and the crew were OK and it was the area they were flying in that was at fault.

I really hope that this posting doesn?t disappear from the CBS forum as quickly as my last one did.

[erasmus111]

by goeswest June 17, 2009 7:42 PM PDT
You wont fly but yet you will risk your life by driving.
That sure make a lot of sense.


Well, it makes sense to me. I don't give a rat's ass whether it's a big plane or little plane. All I know is that there have been MANY plane crashes lately.

And when I am driving, I AM IN CONTROL. Not some drunken pilot or some freaking computer.

AND when you are in a car accident, you really don't have time to think about it. Whereas in a plane, you have a LOT of time to think about it. It's a long ways down.

[erasmus111]

by charlie877 June 17, 2009 6:42 PM PDT
People trying to get money for phoney pictures maybe


No one asked for money.

[goeswest]

That is why I dont fly,there are just too many crashes lately.
posted by erasmus

Here is something for you.How many other commercial airline accidents has there been since the Air France crash

ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


How many car accidents have there been with loss of life since
the Air France crash

HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You wont fly but yet you will risk your life by driving.

That sure make a lot of sense.

[cattlekate1]

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/unusual-attitude/2009/06/af447---the-air-caraibes-story.html

[timbby]

It's hard to believe anyone would believe those pictures are real. They are from the TV show LOST. Geeeeez, c'mon use your brain!

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/brazil737.asp

[cattlekate1]

Pics are probably as phoney as the first reports in a UK Tabloid of cell messages such as "I am so scared!" Fake. No cell coverage.

But the awful facts are leading to Pitot/static tubes plugging from ice (WHY DID THE HEATERS FAIL?), and resultant incorrect (THREE PITOTS?) air speed, verticle speed, and altimeter messages. And auto pilot disengages, then pilots are dealing with mach buffeting because they are going too fast, but possibly thinking the clogged Pitot tube "slow air speed" messages are correct. They add engine thrust which matters worse and subsonic aircraft annot operate like supersonic plane. Torque from wind? or too much yaw tail wagging and composite materials cause vertical stabilizer (and tail?) to shear off.

We shall find out soon - the seat assignments of the bodies found will tell alot.

The poor people who were victims of the initial depresurrization were probably asleep, and then instantly had their lungs lungs decompress, and, with the -50 degrees farenheight, plus the lung-sucking winds of 120 mph (or whatever they were in the turbulence), did not know what hit them. I am still concerned about the 170-plus people in the main, forward, and cockpit cabins. Where are they?

[erasmus111]

by James_for_Today June 17, 2009 5:38 PM PDT

"And there's a difference between being potentially stupid and taking photos of a tornado and standing up in a plane that selectively chooses not to suck you out..."

Yes, and I did say to my brother when I was looking at them, that it was funny how that guy was getting sucked out the back, but no one else looked like they were being "sucked" at all. :) Their bodies or hair didn't not look like they were being "pulled" back.

I'm not normally one that gets SUCKED IN easily. But this time, I did. I must have had other things on my mind. : )


"...and taking two photos instead of thinking or/preparing for your imminent death."

On this though, I do think that there are people that would do this. My nephew would be one. He would do anything. If you are going to die, there's nothing to prepare for. A person that could accept the reality of it, could do it.

[erasmus111]

by James_for_Today June 17, 2009 5:38 PM PDT

Erasmus... I believe you received that email. Is it from anyone you know? Did they ask for money? I respectfully suggest you've been duped. It is a good story, but why is some ordinary person privileged to have the photos? How did he/she get the memory stick? And there's a difference between being potentially stupid and taking photos of a tornado and standing up in a plane that selectively chooses not to suck you out and taking two photos instead of thinking or/preparing for your imminent death. This is a hoax.


I got it from my brother. And he got it from someone he knew, so who knows where it started. I did think that it was funny that I hadn't heard anything about it on the news first. I know when I read it, it didn't sound right to me, seeing as how the plane crashed in the water, I thought it was funny that they found the camera and the memory stick. The camera was damaged, but not the memory stick. I also forgot that it was at night.

[James_for_Today]

Erasmus... I believe you received that email. Is it from anyone you know? Did they ask for money? I respectfully suggest you've been duped. It is a good story, but why is some ordinary person privileged to have the photos? How did he/she get the memory stick? And there's a difference between being potentially stupid and taking photos of a tornado and standing up in a plane that selectively chooses not to suck you out and taking two photos instead of thinking or/preparing for your imminent death. This is a hoax.

[erasmus111]

by James_for_Today June 17, 2009 4:55 PM PDT
The concept that there are pictures sounds phony! Especially the clouds and blue sky. Give us a web site to view the pics... bet you can't. Two things: This happened at night and in a rain/thunder/lightning storm... so no blue skies. And who would be taking photos at a moment like this?!


I said that someone sent them to me in my email. I don't have a website. I have no idea whether they are phony or not. And as for who would take photos at a moment like this? It happens all the time. People standing out in hurricanes, tornaldoes, earthquakes.....

Below is what came with the pictures.


"Feel so sad for all the passengers including the extraordinary
photographer, who kept his cool even in his last moments of life and took
this photo. Hats off to him!!!
The world saw the disappearance of an A330 Air Frane during a trans
Atlantic
flight between Rio to Paris . Two shots taken inside the plane before it
crashed. Unbelievable! Photos taken inside the aircraft..... The two photos
attached were apparently taken by one of the passengers before the aircraft
crashed. The photos were retrieved from the camera's memory stick. You will
never get to see photos like this. In the first photo, there is a gaping
hole in the fuselage through which you can see the tailplane and vertical
fin of the aircraft. In the second photo, one of the passengers is being
sucked out of the gaping hole. These photos were found in a digital Casio
Z750, amidst the remains. Although the camera was destroyed, the Memory
Stick was recovered. Investigating the serial number of the camera, the
owner was identified as Paulo G. Muller, an actor of a theatre for children
known in the outskirts of Porto Alegre . It can be imagined that he was
standing during the turbulence, he managed to take these photos, just
seconds after the tail loss the aircraft plunged. The structural stress
probably ripped the engines away, diminishing the falling speed, protecting
the electronic equipment but not unfortunately the victims. Paulo Muller
leaves behind two daughters, Bruna and
Beatriz ."

[timbby]

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/brazil737.asp

[Thalia-9]

by James_for_Today June 17, 2009 4:55 PM PDT
The concept that there are pictures sounds phony! Especially the clouds and blue sky. Give us a web site to view the pics... bet you can't. Two things: This happened at night and in a rain/thunder/lightning storm... so no blue skies. And who would be taking photos at a moment like this?!

Right...it was at night and during some dangerous storm cycle they experience during this time of year in that area...they lost contact at what 10:00ish didn't they? I'm thinking someone sent hoax pics which is cruel and twisted - even if anyone on board did take pics, there wouldn't be blue sky and the force would be too great to get a shot of someone 'flying out' the planes tail, not to mentions, there were no survivors - the phone would be at the bottom of the ocean, and to actually text an address in that chaos would be impossible.

[Thalia-9]

by erasmus111 June 17, 2009 3:56 PM PDT
by charlie877 June 17, 2009 3:40 PM PDT
maybe it was shot down


Well, I don't think it was hit my lightening, because it looked like fluffy white clouds and blue sky.

But that was during the day erasmus...they said they hit some wild thunderstorm in the eve...however I agree - even seasoned pilots said you'd have to be insane to try and fly through them, there was no way a good pilot would even consider it and planes get hit by lightning all the time and passengers don't even know it due to the state of the art ability to repel on all planes (commercial...dunno about smaller private aircraft)unless their aircraft instruments were that far outta whack, as reported...then maybe they weren't reading the storm right?? Dunno - could be.

[James_for_Today]

The concept that there are pictures sounds phony! Especially the clouds and blue sky. Give us a web site to view the pics... bet you can't. Two things: This happened at night and in a rain/thunder/lightning storm... so no blue skies. And who would be taking photos at a moment like this?!

[woeisme1]

These RepukeliCON's trying to con america again. Geeeesh.....they can't even see how dumb they are!

[timbby]

they're not real, they are pics from Lost. took me about five seconds to find this

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/brazil737.asp

[Thalia-9]

by debinok1 June 17, 2009 4:19 PM PDT
You know, that has bothered me since this whole mess started, everyone even the US keeps saying this was NOT a terrorist attack, even before they found the plane or knew for sure where it went down. Without the flight recorder and the plane, how can they be SO sure that it was not a terrorist attack, especially now that it seems the plane did break up in the air. A terrorist attack should not be dismissed until they now for sure what happened.

I'm w/you - they even stated that there were 2 islamic passengers on board who had been viewd as potential terrorists against France in previous articles - but you're right - even the initial reports of the plane gone missing stated they didn't suspect terrorism...which is scary...if it was terrorism, and the 'this was not terrorism' reports were generated to not alarm the public from flying again...which is even scarier!

[debinok1]

Strangely, I don't think it is to keep people flying. I think someone has possibly taken credit and they are possibly trying to keep it quiet. I think that if someone has and they are then whomever it was would cause a worldwide uproar. Not to sound like the tinfoil hat brigade here but there is always the possibility that it was intentional by one of the governments involved, perhaps trying to get rid of someone specific without it raising all sorts of questions.

[woeisme1]

Cheney did it. Wants to start another war.

[debinok1]

You know, that has bothered me since this whole mess started, everyone even the US keeps saying this was NOT a terrorist attack, even before they found the plane or knew for sure where it went down. Without the flight recorder and the plane, how can they be SO sure that it was not a terrorist attack, especially now that it seems the plane did break up in the air. A terrorist attack should not be dismissed until they now for sure what happened.