Brazil Confirms Finding Jet's Wreckage

No Bodies Found From Sunday Air France Crash, In Which All 228 Passengers Are Believed To Have Died

(CBS/AP)  Last Updated 6:33 p.m. ET

Brazilian military planes found a 3-mile path of wreckage in the Atlantic Ocean, confirming that an Air France jet carrying 228 people crashed in the sea, Defense Minister Nelson Jobim said Tuesday.

Jobim told reporters in Rio de Janeiro that the discovery "confirms that the plane went down in that area," hundreds of miles from the Brazilian archipelago of Fernando de Noronha.

"There isn't the slightest doubt that the debris is from the Air France plane," Jobim said.

He said the strip of wreckage included metallic and nonmetallic pieces, but did not describe them in detail. No bodies were spotted in the crash of the Airbus A330 in which all aboard are believed to have died.

The discovery came just hours after authorities announced they had found an airplane seat, an orange buoy and signs of fuel in a part of the Atlantic Ocean where ocean depths range from less than one mile to more than three miles.

The search planes have been hampered by the same rough weather suspected of having a bearing on the crash, reports CBS News correspondent Mark Phillips.

Jobim said recovery of the plane's cockpit voice and data recorders and other wreckage could be difficult because much of the wreckage sank.

"It's going to be very hard to search for it because it could be at a depth of 2,000 meters or 3,000 meters (1.2 miles to 1.8 miles) in that area of the ocean," Jobim said.

The initial discovery of wreckage announced before Jobim spoke came about 36 hours after the jet went missing as it flew from Rio de Janeiro toward Paris.

A Brazilian air force spokesman said the two spots where debris was located suggested the pilots may have tried to turn the plane around to return to Fernando de Noronha.

"The locations where the objects were found are toward the right of the point where the last signal of the plane was emitted," said the spokesman, Col. Jorge Amaral. "That suggests that it might have tried to make a turn, maybe to return to Fernando de Noronha, but that is just a hypothesis."

Amaral said some of the debris was white and small, but did not describe it in more detail.

Jobim made the announcement after two commercial ships that joined the search late Tuesday morning reached sites where the debris was found, a Navy spokeswoman said.

"Once they come across the objects, they will be analyzed to determine if they are parts of the plane or just junk," she said.

A U.S. Navy P-3C Orion surveillance plane and 21 crew members arrived in Brazil on Tuesday morning from El Salvador and was to begin overflying the zone in the afternoon, U.S. officials said in a statement. The plane can fly low over the ocean for about 12 hours at a time and has radar and sonar designed to track submarines underwater.

The French dispatched a research ship equipped with unmanned submarines to the debris site. The subs can explore depths of up to 19,600 feet. The U.S. was considering contributing unmanned underwater vehicles in the search as well, according to a defense source who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record.

The 4-year-old plane was last heard from at 0214 GMT Monday (10:14 p.m. EDT Sunday) about four hours after it left Rio.

If no survivors are found, it would be the world's worst civil aviation disaster since the November 2001 crash of an American Airlines jetliner in the New York City borough of Queens that killed 265 people.

Investigators on both sides of the ocean are trying to determine what brought the plane down, with few clues to go on. Potential causes include violently shifting winds and hail from towering thunderheads, lightning or some combination of other factors.

Whatever happened, it happened in the zone of extreme weather known as the Inter-tropical Convergence Zone, reports Phillips. That is where prevailing winds from the north and south hemisphere's meet, causing violent thunderheads that can reach up beyond 50,000 feet - higher than commercial planes can fly.

No explanation, though, will give solace to the relatives and friends of the victims - like Patricia Coakley, left, whose husband Arthur was on the flight, reports Phillips.

"I'm realizing he might not come back," she said. "But I kept phoning him on his mobile."

The crew made no distress call before the crash, but the plane's system sent an automatic message just before it disappeared, reporting lost cabin pressure and electrical failure. The plane's cockpit and "black box" recorders could be thousands of feet (meters) below the surface.

Brazil's military says the night the plane went missing, commercial pilots in the area reported what could have been a trail of fire on the water, reports CBS News correspondent Charlie D'Agata.

French Prime Minister Francois Fillon said that if the debris is confirmed to be part of Flight 447, "This will allow us to better determine the search zone."

"We are in a race against the clock in extremely difficult weather conditions and in a zone where depths reach up to 7,000 meters (22,966 feet)," he told lawmakers in the lower house of French parliament Tuesday. Black box recorders can emit signals for up to 30 days.

The chance of finding survivors now "is very, very small, even nonexistent," said Jean-Louis Borloo, the French minister overseeing transportation.

The Airbus A330-200 was cruising normally at 35,000 feet (10,670 meters) and 522 mph (840 kph) just before it disappeared.

But just north of the equator, a line of towering thunderstorms loomed. Bands of extremely turbulent weather stretched across the Atlantic toward Africa.

Borloo called the A330 "one of the most reliable planes in the world" and said lightning alone, even from a fierce tropical storm, probably couldn't have brought down the plane.

"There really had to be a succession of extraordinary events to be able to explain this situation," Borloo said on RTL radio Tuesday.

France's junior minister for transport, Dominique Bussereau, said the plane sent "a kind of outburst" of automated messages just before it disappeared, "which means something serious happened, as eventually the circuits switched off."

French military spokesman Christophe Prazuck said France has three military patrol aircraft flying over the central Atlantic, but could shift its search operations closer to the site of the Brazilian discovery. He said an AWACS radar plane also had been dispatched and should join the operation on Wednesday.

French police were studying passenger lists and maintenance records, and preparing to take DNA from passengers' relatives to help identify any bodies.

French Defense Minister Herve Morin said "we have no signs so far" of terrorism, but all hypotheses must be studied.

Alain Bouillard, who led the probe into the crash of the Concorde in July 2000, was put in charge of France's accident investigation team.

President Barack Obama told French television stations the United States is ready to do everything necessary to find out what happened.

On board the flight were 61 French citizens, 58 Brazilians, 26 Germans, nine Chinese and nine Italians. A lesser number of citizens from 27 other countries also were on the passenger list.

Two Americans living in Rio de Janeiro were on board. Michael Harris, 60, a geologist, and his wife Anne, 54, were headed to Europe for work and vacation. They lived previously in Lafayette, Louisiana.

Among the passengers were three young Irish doctors, returning from a two-week vacation in Brazil. Aisling Butler's father John paid tribute to his 26-year-old daughter, from Roscrea, County Tipperary.

"She was a truly wonderful, exciting girl. She never flunked an exam in her life - nailed every one of them - and took it all in her stride," he said.

[craigbennie]

Both pilots of the Air Comet flight from Lima to Lisbon sent a written report to aviation authorities, i.e, Air France, Airbus, describing what they saw. They reported that "Suddenly, we saw a bright flash....an intense flash of white light, ....in a descending and vertical trajectory....." in the area of Flight 447.

Recalling the January 7, 1948 incident of Kentucky Air National Guard Captain Thomas Mantell, Jr., who was ordered to intercept a UFO sited over Mansville, Kentucky, one notices a strange similarity in eyewitness testimony. Witness farmer Glen Mays of Franklin, KY. He said he saw Mantell's plane "enveloped by a brilliant white flash of light...so bright....it was like looking at the sun". Captain Mantell's aircraft then "appeared to fall out of this light and pancake into the ground" Mays said.

There's a commonality between the Air France Flight 447 tragedy and Captain Mantell's crash---- reports of a mysterious intense flash of white light preceding the doomed aircraft. Just coincidence?... or something more frightening?

[mahdeealoo]

Hope they've taken into account "drift" in locating other sunken parts of the plane. I would think that would be routine. But you never know...

[prandy45]

I think you have the best page every .I love watching your show at the Early show please tell them that they are so GREAT in the work that they Do i wish i had i there e-mail so i would be able to ttell them how i feel about there work.I live in northern Californnia- Shasta Lake and my name is Randy. Have a great and wonderful day!!!

[wordsurf_08]

yeah. these kinds of things happen, when you have cyber militant terrorist groups, operating out of places like germany (where al qaida had one of their most important bases), where foreign radicals (turks, muslims and india british in england for example) are free to operate under protected laws instituted by the governments, and so, can attack cyber air fields, and bring planes down over oceans. these groups operate by interfering with signals, which can lead to a pilot losing control over an aircraft. radicals like that, have the technology to monitor previously studied targets, so as to attack them when they find a convenient moment.

[dragyn30]

I wish peace to all of these families affected by this catastrophe.

[casionova]

All you Boeing employees should stop banging on the Airbus.

Even in the examples you cite a chain of errors by the flight crew led to those accidents, the computer didnt "take over" it was told to by the crews mistaken actions and did what it was programmed to do.

[WayAround]

Now, if a group of Michelin executives got together and said, "We're sick of what's happening in the auto industry. We will contact law enforcement authorities en masse."...

Given what I know about the International Mafia, those executives would soon find themselves on a flight from Rio to Paris.

...and NO, the Mafia does **NOT** care about the number of innocents who get caught in the crossfire.

[ubrew12]

bothR2blame31 said: "In the other crash, the computer succeeded in crashing the plane, killing everybody on board. But the flight data recorder told the tale of the pilot struggling desperately to counteract the computer, and making the correct control responses all the way down. The computer overruled the pilot every step of the way, until the plane impacted the ground.

I would never fly on an Airbus by choice."

Good post. I've heard too many troubling things about the Airbus airplanes. I believe they weren't properly 'vetted' before being allowed to flight. Most people think this crash shouldn't have happened, given the circumstances. I hope they do a complete investigation. Airbus has a positive future, but it needs to come clean and find out what is going on.

[cattiej]

To the families of the people killed on AF-447 may God hold you in his arms and give you peace.

[erasmus111]

The computer had more control than the pilot. so the computer overruled the pilot and crashed the plane while the pilot was doing his best to save it.
Posted by bothR2blame31 at 2:24 PM : Jun 2, 2009

That's why you would never get me on a plane. There ain't no way I am going to fly in something that is controlled by a freaking computer.

I saw a show one time where a train was controlled by a computer and when it started to malfunction, it wouldn't let anyone take over.

[cbsblogger]

Why aren't the black boxes setup with redundant backup power and also the ability to automatically do an immediate burst transmission to pre-established international monitoring stations of all current internal data when certain catastrophic situations are present such as loss of air frame integrity or systems, rapid decline in altitude, extreme yaw or pitch, decompression, velocity and anything that would indicate loss of control? It would eliminate the need and delay in finding black boxes especially over the oceans.

[cattlekate1]

Other forums indicate, within 2:11z and 2:13z: messages in this order, ADIRU, then ISIS:

ADIRU (from Wikipedia)
The Air Data Inertial Reference Unit (ADIRU) is a key component of the integrated Air Data Inertial Reference System (ADIRS), which supplies air data (air speed and altitude) and inertial reference (position and attitude) information to the pilots' Electronic Flight Instrument System displays as well as other systems on the aircraft such as the engines, autopilot, flight control and landing gear systems.[1] An ADIRU acts as a single, fault tolerant source of navigational data for both pilots of an aircraft

(note there are 3 ADIRUs on the A330 for redundancy - loss of 1 should not bring down an aircraft)

ISIS - Integrated Standby Intrument System - separate basic 'artificial horizon and airspeed' indicator for cases where normal flight instruments become unavailable.

....All ADRIU fail? Did the 2 Quantas have this happen too?

[HiTor15]

truth is a lot of things can bring an airplane down in a real hurry including a bomb. But Turbulence can also bring a plane down and people are told that it cant but there have been many instances of turbulence smashing planes into pieces. Think of it this way, a plane dropping from a ten story building will get smashed, well it falling from a two thousand foot air pocket will also do the same, and in a thunderhead you will get that.

[breadline1]

YOUR ALL WRONG ! BUSH AND CHENEY ARE BEHIND THIS !! CHENEY WAS HUNTING IN BRAZIL , HE TURNED AND FIRED AND THERE WAS THE PLANE. HE CALLED HIS BOSS, THE BUSHWACKER AND SAID "WHAT SHOULD I DO" ? BUSHMAN SAID, " I'LL CALL THE SHERIFF AND WILL TRY TO COVER THIS UP"! BUT NOW THE'RE BUSTED 'CAUSE I'VE JUST SPILLED THE BEANS !!

[davelangton]

""Brousse said "it is possible" the plane was hit by lightning""

Dave says "it is possible the aircraft was downed by a bomb"
Two debris fields, 35 miles apart. It came down in roughly 2 large sections (smaller sections are inversely more difficult to spot).
If it was in fact downed by a lightning strike (and certified to withstand such), then we should take a hard look at certification standards. It's been a long time since lightning has taken down a Part 25 certificated Boeing.
I won't even rant about the flight control design, where the a/c can override the pilots' control inputs. Or how your rudder can fall off when you press a pedal.
Airbus still hasn't gotten it right.

[spiritwalk]

A terrorist attack is a possibility, but what has occurred with this model aircraft has a striking similarity to the de Havilland Comet situation, with this being mot similar to 1954 ?disintegration? of a Comet as it flew into turbulence off Italy.

In the case of the Comet it was a matter of design flaws that only became critical after a period of time in the air where the effects of stress had been greatly underestimated. Like the Airbus A330, there had been earlier less severe failures that were pointing to a potential design problem, but until two actually broke up they were not addressed.

With a history of serious structural failures when encountering turbulence already known the prudent course now would be to think about mandatory grounding and inspection of the planes checking for signs of stress damage and not moving to enhance security as a knee jerk reaction.

[swami545]

I'm thankful we have all these FAA investigators registered here who know what happened in detail just by reading the limited information given to the news media.

[geminispyder-2009]

This airplane probably broke up so suddenly that most on board were knocked senseless or dead instantly. But even if the crew was struggling in the final moments, they probably didn't say much that would be comprehensible.
Posted by bothR2blame31 at 2:29 PM : Jun 2, 2009

Yeah. The structural failure bit I came up with was just another possibility on top of the fly-by-wire theories that have been showing up.

But I'll admit, my theory is just that... only a theory.

[geminispyder-2009]

So geminispyder 2009 - you're saying the plane broke in half during all this turbulence? You may prove to be right, cause they're saying (aviation experts) that whatever caused this was sudden and catastrophic, it had to be if the pilots couldn't get off a mayday distress call.
Posted by stickdog3 at 2:05 PM : Jun 2, 2009

Yeah, under the assumption that the reports are true; that the sudden loss of cabin pressure, loss of electrical power, and no reports of a distress call. I was thinking of a lightning strike compromising the fly-by-wire controls.

However, the reports started coming out of a sudden loss of cabin pressure. Let's say that all of the safety locks, such as the ones that safely lock the cabin doors and luggage compartment, were functional at the time of take off. Which means the sudden loss of cabin pressure would've occured in-flight (however, I am not sure if this warning would also come on if the cabin was fully pressurized at sea level); this would probably mean a catastrophic failure of the fuselage as there was no distress call. I would think in a situation of sudden structural failure and loss of cabin pressure, but the plane were still intact and flyable for a certain amount of time (such as JAL flight 123 where it lost its stabilizer and cabin pressure, but flew for 1/2 an hour before it crashed), the pilots would've been able to send out some sort of call for help.

But the loss of both cabin pressure AND electrical systems, if it had happened when the plane hit the water, the pilots would've sent a call for help before it did so. So I came to the conclusion that the automated warning sent out meant that loss of both cabin pressure and electrical systems happened in-flight. Other than severe turbulence, I do not know of anything that would cause this other than a mid-air collision or a terrorist act.

This is just want I came up with. If there is any error in my reasoning, I'm open to suggestions.

[stickdog3]

So geminispyder 2009 - you're saying the plane broke in half during all this turbulence? You may prove to be right, cause they're saying (aviation experts) that whatever caused this was sudden and catastrophic, it had to be if the pilots couldn't get off a mayday distress call. Thats horrible, and I couldn't possibly comprehend what went thru those people mind if that plane broke in half at that altitude, meaning they had time to think while falling 35,000 feet to that water through all that rain, wind, noise. May God have mercy on their souls.