Fossil Find May Tweak Evolution Debate

47 Million-Year-Old Primate Skeleton Suggests Different Precursor To Monkeys, Apes, Humans

(CBS)  A primate skeleton claimed to be 47 million years old could further amplify the often contentious debate between evolutionists and creationists.

A prominent paleontologist says the discovery of the ancient primate fossil suggests the creature is the common ancestor of monkeys, apes and humans, reports The Wall Street Journal.

The find bolsters the less-popular stance that humans' ape-like ancestor was a precursor to the lemur - the tarsier, a tiny, bug-eyed primate in Asia, is more commonly thought of as the precursor, the Journal reports.

Dr. Philip Gingerich, the president-elect of the Paleontological Society in the U.S., will discuss the findings next week in an online journal. The fossil will be unveiled next week at New York's Museum of Natural History.

"This discovery brings a forgotten group into focus as a possible ancestor of higher primates," Mr. Gingerich, a professor of paleontology at the University of Michigan, told the Journal.

While the fossil doesn't relate to the more heated debate over whether chimpanzees and humans share a common identity - the fossil is not the so-called "missing link" - the two factions will likely pounce on this new find with evolutionists claiming the skeleton adds to the limited fossil record.

[nic1234567-2009]

I don?t subscribe to the Original sin doctrine as proposed by the YEC. Sin first originated in the heaven, it occurred before the fall of man as taught in Ez.28 and Isa.14. The once cherub over God?s throne became a fallen angel-prince. We don?t know exactly when this happened, he may have rebelled against God shortly after his creation, or it could have been millennia.

Also Adam clearly new of death before the fall. Rather than getting into details of it, I?ll simple provide you with a link to it.

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/death.html

I?m leaving this forum now. It was a pleaser debating with you.

I wish you well and God Bless.

[nic1234567-2009]

And I notice you completely ignored the facts I brought up about the Columbine HS killers praising Darwinian evolution and mocking Christians which they did before the massacre. Just as you ignored that Hitler used Darwinian Socialism doctrine for many of his Nazi laws. ---
I choose not to respond to it because I believe that people are responsible for their own actions and choices in life. What the Columbine HS killers did was despicable and I have no intention of minimize their responsibility by invoking the Darwinian made me do it argument.

[nic1234567-2009]

Are the atheists attacking you? Are you standing up for the Bible?
As a matter of fact they have and I do stand up for the bible. But I?m also attack from the other side for example take a look at your own response to my position then tell me you haven?t been attacking it.

[nic1234567-2009]

"Theistic" evolution is merely an attempt to mix Darwinian evolution into the Bible. I've heard all about it before. -- I'm very sorry you feel that way.However thats really not the point. Scientific explanation allows us to see the marvelous way in which God has set up His creation. God can work His will through "natural" processes in ages past and in the present time. The lack of a scientific explanation is certainly a miracle when the Bible says it is; such as the Virgin Birth, or when Jesus turned water into wine. If the Bible is silent on a certain unsolved scientific problem, then the theistic evolutionist has found an interesting puzzle! It might be a divine miracle all right, but this theistic evolutionist does not give Christian witness on the basis of unsolved scientific problems. Not when there's a risen Savior to talk about instead!

[nic1234567-2009]

I forgot, I meant to give you a link to one of the theistic evolution web sites so you have a better understanding of our position.
http://www.theisticevolution.org/

[nic1234567-2009]

Why do you have such a thing against "Creation" ---- What make you think I have anything against Creation? As theistic evolutionists I do believe that God is the creator; we just have a difference as to how he went about it. And yes I?m familiar with JESUS CHRIST references to the CREATION in the bible.
Theistic evolutionists believe that there is a God that God is the creator of the material universe and all life within, and that biological evolution is simply a natural process within that creation.
Buy the way if you think you have it bad as creationists try being theistic evolutionists. I?m get act for my belief from both sides. Just go on the web and search for theistic evolution and see what I mean. I try not to let it get to me though.

[nic1234567-2009]

LOL...no I'm not "confusing" anything. But thank you for exposing the myth that evolution is by ADMITTING in your post above that there are "many hypothesis", not just the "primoridal soup" one. --
Actually you are. Evolution says nothing about how life began. Evolution is about change in the genetic material of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. It doesn?t even preclude the possibility of an original intelligent designer (GOD). However I personally prefer to think of GOD as the guiding hand behind evolution. And just to be clear I?m not mocking or scoffing at "Creationists" I respect their views even if I don?t agree with them. I?m only asking you to try and think outside the box and try to be a little less confrontational. It tends to turn people of to religion and is counterproductive to your own position.

[nic1234567-2009]

Still waiting on one of you evolutionists to explain how the puddle of seething soup of chemicals simply popped into existence on its own and the foundation that it laid upon. -----
Your confusing evolution with abiogenesis, or origin of life, it is the study of how life on Earth could have arisen from inanimate matter. There are many hypothesis not just the Primordial soup one. Wikipedia has a good list and some explanation of a number of them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

[nic1234567-2009]

I don?t believe that God is a deceiver I was referring to the omphalos argument. You really need to read my complete response. If you buy into that argument you really need reconcile scientific observations with GOD word. There?s actually a modified version of the omphalos argument that goes something like the universe was not just created with apparent age it was created with great age. As a creationist you should really ask your self did God create the universe within time or with time. He is capable of both.

[nic1234567-2009]

Creationist will typically tell you that he universe was created mature, with apparent age. Light from the sun and stars fell on the earth from its beginning. This is sometimes called the omphalos argument.
However this argument is not supportable. For example the appearance of age asks us to accept that light from supernovas came from stars that never actually existed. This makes God into a deceiver, since he created an appearance different from reality. Romans 1:20 says that God is to be "understood from what has been made." The apparent age claim says we cannot trust what has been made.

[scyouth]

Question for all you creationists out there. How do youexplaing the size of the universe. You're always going on about evolution being "only" a theory, well it's Hubble's LAW and Doppler's LAW and the universal speed of light which together give the formula to calculate the age of the universe at around 12 billion (that's Billion not Million) years. Is it only our solar system that was born 7000 years ago into an ages old universe or what.

[sam-kiley]

bonj

, d'abord je dis bienvenue a ida dans ce monde quelle a quitté il ya des lustres, encore des théories renforcant celle de darwin quand a l'évolution de la race humainequand a la théorie de darwin, moi je ne suis pas convaincue, ah mais alors pas du
cela dit elle n'engage que lui... notre religion musulmane, est trés claire la dessus, les autres religions monothéiques aussi je suppose....que va-t-on encore nous trouver comme idioties je me le demande...

[nic1234567-2009]

If you are a CHRISTIAN genius, that means you are a FUNDAMENTAL believer in Jesus Christ, in the things He said, and the Things He DID when He was on earth. -- Libs_Will_Never_Learn yes that would be the definition. However I really find it disturbing when others take it upon them self to say who is and is not a Christian. My gut response in this situation is to ask them who made you god. If ibzjem says he is a Christian I?d take him at his word. It?s not for you or me to judge him.
I also consider myself a Christian but also but I?ve been able to reconcile my belief in god and understanding of evolutionary process. I don?t have a problem believing them both to be true. I know you have a problem with that concept but it is true for many of us. As for Ben Stein?s Expelled:No Intelligence Allowed his claims are really not supportable. For example Expelled erroneously implies that the theory of evolution necessarily ?leads to? eugenics. This is false and unsupported by the evidence.
http://www.expelledexposed.com/index.php/the-truth/hitler-eugenics

Also Check out the full site:
http://www.expelledexposed.com/

[ibzjem]

Yawn yawn yawn,

Presupposition all abound. I know the answers before I even ask the questions.

And you think you are scientific? This stuff is seriously debunked already. Condescension and pigeon holing is how they approach the subject. Cherry pick the bible verses you think are "literal" and ignore the others. Translate them into what you want them to say. Well it takes an open mind and some study outside ancient texts written before anyone knew anything to discover what's true and what's fantasy.

[rational_1]

No, what will be pathetic is the sight of YOU begging God for forgiveness while crawling around on the floor like a worm that you think you descended from.
Posted by TheTruthDetective at 8:35 AM : May 20, 2009

You're a funny guy and I wish you a long life, so please be careful when you handle the rattlesnakes on the back 40 with your Appalachian-American brethren.

[barbaram99]

We have a tail bone..Yep. We are part of the animal kingdom. We are mammals.

[ibzjem]

Posted by TheTruthDetective at 9:03 AM : May 20, 2009

LOL!!! I have to laugh. You think you know me from a couple posts? I accept the scientific reality of evolution and you automatically label me liberal and non-christian. Are you the all-mighty judge? FYI I've been Christian for 30 years. I am open minded and a bit skeptical of some of the things fundamentalists come up with. Next you'll be telling me I never had salvation. I have 3 degrees in scientific fields which means I expect a natural explanation for natural phenomena, butI can still accept the reasons people believe in God. But when Christians promote ideas that are not truthful, then I have to call them on it.

And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another. Romans 15:14 (ASV)

[TheTruthDetective]

Is this the kind of witness Christ expects from you? I guess we know you are Christian by your love...
Posted by ibzjem at 8:48 AM : May 20, 2009

Listen Liberal, "feel good" Christianity and tolerance is new. That is why you neo-Christians accept homosexuality and abortion. True Christianity is very forward and very specific.

[ibzjem]

No, what will be pathetic is the sight of YOU begging God for forgiveness while crawling around on the floor like a worm that you think you descended from.
Posted by TheTruthDetective at 8:35 AM : May 20, 2009

Is this the kind of witness Christ expects from you? I guess we know you are Christian by your love...

[ibzjem]

So what is scientifically accurate about these scriptures?

Psalms 93:1 "the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved."
1.Chronicles 16:30 "Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall
be stable, that it be not moved."
Psalms 104:5 "Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be
removed for ever."
Psalms 96:10 "the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved:"
Ecclesiastes 1:5"The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and
hasteth to his place where he arose."

From this we should conclude that the earth does not move. That would mean it doesn't rotate or revolve. So do you think the sun and stars revolve around the earth? If not who has ever "seen" the earth revolve around the sun? No one has ever seen it happen from a third person point of view. We measure effects and have evidence that it happens. As in evolution and other areas of science, there is inference. No one has to be there to "see" things happen. Observation is frequently implied by characterization. Not to mention we do "see" speciation today. Fruit-flies come to mind.