Torture Ineffective, Agency Warned In '02

Washington Post: Senator Belives Memo From Military Agency Was Deliberately Ignored Or Repressed

(Washingtonpost.com)  This story was written by Peter Finn and Joby Warrick.

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The military agency that provided advice on harsh interrogation techniques for use against terrorism suspects referred to the application of extreme duress as "torture" in a July 2002 document sent to the Pentagon's chief lawyer and warned that it would produce "unreliable information."

"The unintended consequence of a U.S. policy that provides for the torture of prisoners is that it could be used by our adversaries as justification for the torture of captured U.S. personnel," says the document, an unsigned two-page attachment to a memo by the military's Joint Personnel Recovery Agency. Parts of the attachment, obtained in full by The Washington Post, were quoted in a Senate report on harsh interrogation released this week.

It remains unclear whether the attachment reached high-ranking officials in the Bush administration. But the document offers the clearest evidence that has come to light so far that technical advisors on the harsh interrogation methods voiced early concerns about the effectiveness of applying severe physical or psychological pressure.

The document was included among July 2002 memoranda that described severe techniques used against Americans in past conflicts and the psychological effects of such treatment. JPRA ran the military program known as Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE), which trains pilots and others to resist hostile questioning.

The cautionary attachment was forwarded to the Pentagon's Office of the General Counsel as the administration finalized the legal underpinnings of a CIA interrogation program that would sanction the use of 10 forms of coercion, including waterboarding, a technique that simulates drowning. The JPRA material was sent from the Pentagon to the CIA's acting general counsel, John A. Rizzo, and on to the Justice Department, according to testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

A memo dated Aug. 1, 2002, from the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel authorized the use of the 10 methods against Abu Zubaida, the nom de guerre of an al-Qaeda associate captured in Pakistan in March 2002. Former intelligence officials have recently contended that Abu Zubaida provided little useful information about the organization's plans.

Senate investigators were unable to determine whether William J. Haynes II, the Pentagon's general counsel in 2002, passed the cautionary memo to Rizzo or to other Bush administration officials reviewing the CIA's proposed program.

Haynes declined to comment, as did Rizzo and the CIA. Jay S. Bybee, who as an assistant attorney general signed the Aug. 1 memo, did not respond to a request for comment.

Daniel Baumgartner, who was the JPRA's chief of staff in 2002 and transmitted the memos and attachments, said the agency "sent a lot of cautionary notes" regarding harsh techniques. "There is a difference between what we do in training and what the administration wanted the information for," he said a telephone interview yesterday. "What the administration decided to do or not to do was up to the guys dealing with offensive prisoner operations. . . . We train our own people for the worst possible outcome . . . and obviously the United States government does not torture its own people."

Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.), chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said he thinks the attachment was deliberately ignored and perhaps suppressed. Excerpts from the document appeared in a report on the treatment of detainees released this month by Levin's committee. The report says the attachment echoes JPRA warnings issued in late 2001.

"It's part of a pattern of squelching dissent," said Levin, who added that there were other instances in which internal reviews of detainee treatment were halted or undercut. "They didn't want to hear the downside."

A former administration official said the National Security Council, which was briefed repeatedly that summer on the CIA's planned interrogation program by George J. Tenet, then director of central intelligence, and agency lawyers, did not discuss the issues raised in the attachment. Tenet declined comment through a spokesman.

"That information was not brought to the attention of the principals," said the official, who was involved in deliberations on interrogation policy and spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. "That would have been relevant. The CIA did not present with pros and cons, or points of concern. They said this was safe and effective, and there was no alternative."

The Aug. 1 memo on the interrogation of Abu Zubaida draws from the JPRA's memo on psychological effects to conclude that while waterboarding constituted "a threat of imminent death," it did not cause "prolonged mental harm." Therefore, the Aug. 1 memo concluded, waterboarding "would not constitute torture within the meaning of the statute."

But the JPRA's two-page attachment, titled "Operational Issues Pertaining to the Use of Physical/Psychological Coercion in Interrogation," questioned the effectiveness of employing extreme duress to gain intelligence.

"The requirement to obtain information from an uncooperative source as quickly as possible -- in time to prevent, for example, an impending terrorist attack that could result in loss of life -- has been forwarded as a compelling argument for the use of torture," the document said. "In essence, physical and/or psychological duress are viewed as an alternative to the more time-consuming conventional interrogation process. The error inherent in this line of thinking is the assumption that, through torture, the interrogator can extract reliable and accurate information. History and a consideration of human behavior would appear to refute this assumption."

There was no consideration within the National Security Council that the planned techniques stemmed from Chinese communist practices and had been deemed torture when employed against American personnel, the former administration official said. The U.S. military prosecuted its own troops for using waterboarding in the Philippines and tried Japanese officers on war crimes charges for its use against Americans and other allied nationals during World War II.

The reasoning in the JPRA document contrasted sharply with arguments being pressed at the time by current and former military psychologists in the SERE program, including James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, who later formed a company that became a CIA contractor advising on interrogations. Both men declined to comment on their role in formulating interrogation policy.

The JPRA attachment said the key deficiency of physical or psychological duress is the reliability and accuracy of the information gained. "A subject in pain may provide an answer, any answer, or many answers in order to get the pain to stop," it said.

In conclusion, the document said, "the application of extreme physical and/or psychological duress (torture) has some serious operational deficits, most notably the potential to result in unreliable information." The word "extreme" is underlined.

Staff researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.

[kansas1946]

And Americans are starting to see this....he's gone all over the planet with his Dumbama America Sucks Campaign....he's destroying our national security...and he's promoting hatred of this country. If there's retaliation for his lies and his moronic spoiled brat ego sociopathic degenerate actions, there'll be hell to pay for it.
Posted by Rowdy108 at 7:11 PM : Apr 26, 2009
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LOL. This has got to be the funniest post of the day.

[kansas1946]

Washington Post: Senator Belives Memo From Military Agency Was Deliberately Ignored Or Repressed
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Of course it was. Cheney wanted to see folks tortured. The whole Bush administration was packed with evil and evil folks enjoy torture.

[antoniof123]

And Americans are starting to see this....he's gone all over the planet with his Dumbama America Sucks Campaign....he's destroying our national security...and he's promoting hatred of this country. If there's retaliation for his lies and his moronic spoiled brat ego sociopathic degenerate actions, there'll be hell to pay for it.
Posted by Rowdy108 at 7:11 PM : Apr 26, 2009

Rowdy before you post do you ever think about it?

Obama's approval rating is 65 percent and holding, the Democrats approval rating is 52 percent and holding.

The Republicans approval rating is 29 percent. Now let me see that is what Bush's approval rating was and what those that disapproval of Obama is.

The more you rant and rave the more Obama's numbers get better.

Must really **** you off?

[TheMasses02]

The Messiah needs to stick to saying what his teleprompter tells him to say instead of trying to think for himself
Posted by jedi0849
--------------------------------
Hahahahahahahaha!

[abbe91]

The military agency that provided advice on harsh interrogation techniques for use against terrorism suspects referred to the application of extreme duress as "torture" in a July 2002 document sent to the Pentagon's chief lawyer and warned that it would produce "unreliable information."

Unreliable information was just what Bush administration was looking for.

[jedi0849]

I agree with Rowdy on this one. Obamas apologoy campaign to the rest of the world was bad for our country and acomplished nothing.

Now Obama leaving the door open to prosecute Bush and Cheny while releaseing memo's that damage our country is a bone head move.

The Messiah needs to stick to saying what his teleprompter tells him to say instead of trying to think for himself

[realnews12]

Especially since he doctored some of the memo's he released and left parts out!!!

Posted by Rowdy108 at 3:11 PM : Apr 26, 2009

Pathetic and delusional.

[realnews12]

You know, the Dumbama America Sucks Campaign has no idea that Americans see him as promoting hatred for Americans to the rest of the world.

Posted by Rowdy108 at 5:58 PM : Apr 26, 2009

You are a very sick woman, Rowdy. Your pathological lying and your hatred have made you delusional. Please get professional help.

[Right_Wing_Extremist]

Darwin thumpers have one thing that you don't: evidence.
Posted by mcthreeteeth

Evidence that all life came from a puddle of goo, a common ancester of goo? I don't think so pal.

Keep up the false hope, your belief in myths, live, and die, and then stand in front of the Creator, the LORD Jesus, in the end, and try to question His Truth then

It won't work then....so keep it up.

[actornaught]

Posted by formrusmcsgt at 9:19 AM : Apr 26, 2009

Job 1 of any politician is to get elected/reelected. So be it, it's locked into any democracy. But when Job 1 becomes the only job, you get Republicans saying and doing ONLY what gets them elected, all the while cynically manipulating the system for their own good. You can say the dems are almost the same, but at least their voting constituents actually do get some benefit from their actions.

w wanted to be a War President, and he thought Iraq would also provide him with some Oedipal satisfaction.

It's not a war on terror to keep us safe, it's the Legacy Thing. Evil.

[formrusmcsgt]

Isn't it ironic that the party that contends it stands for morals and values is the very party that espouses torture?

Sheesh.

[formrusmcsgt]

Prosecute.
Posted by actornaught at 9:10 AM : Apr 26, 2009


Agreed.

Failing to do so is tacit official sanctioning of illegal acts.
Posted by formrusmcsgt at 9:13 AM : Apr 26, 2009

And I will add as well the officials are the ones responsible for these illegal acts, not their underlings who meeted out the punishment.

Prosecute attorneys who gave opinions tailored to ideology rahter than law and the administration officials who ok's the policy.

[formrusmcsgt]

Prosecute.
Posted by actornaught at 9:10 AM : Apr 26, 2009


Agreed.

Failing to do so is tacit official sanctioning of illegal acts.

[actornaught]

w's torture program was based on the red chinese methods used in Vietnam for the purposes of propaganda,, not Intel, like the anti-american film they forced John McCain to make. w was wheeling about trying to find backup for his invasion of Iraq. War on Terror my buttt, he was doing the Legacy Thing.

Prosecute.

[formrusmcsgt]

Obviously you have been reading my posts - GREATNESS - ha!
Posted by rednomo at 9:01 AM : Apr 26, 2009

Is this supposed to mean anything to someone other than yourself?

[formrusmcsgt]

I "espouse" anybody that litters this board with (Jr.) high empty rhetoric on either side.
Posted by rednomo at 9:00 AM : Apr 26, 2009


Yeah so do we but do you know what the word "espouse" means? I mean cause you used it improperly.
Posted by Stuart2560 at 9:02 AM : Apr 26, 2009

I think the word he wanted was "eschew", but it's obviously not in his lexicon.

[formrusmcsgt]

I "espouse" anybody that litters this board with (Jr.) high empty rhetoric on either side.
Posted by rednomo at 9:00 AM : Apr 26, 2009

May I ask why you would espouse purveyors of high empty rhetoric?

[formrusmcsgt]

Hey Sarge...I gotta go for a bit...see you shortly somewhere in this hole
Posted by Stuart2560 at 9:01 AM : Apr 26, 2009

Roger that, bro.

[rednomo]

Livin' in Vegas is torture.
Posted by rednomo at 8:57 AM : Apr 26, 2009

Must be a Bible thumper.

We allow them no say here whatsoever.

Just how I like it.

In fact, I'd call it "Heaven".
Posted by formrusmcsgt

Obviously you have been reading my posts - GREATNESS - ha!

[rednomo]

Bring it Jr.
Posted by rednomo at 8:50 AM : Apr 26, 2009


Well, I'm 56 years old, so if you're referring to me, you must be around 75 or so, minimum.

So, I'll be gentle old man.

Are you sure that you're a neanderthal who espouses torture or might you just be having a "senior moment"?
Posted by formrusmcsgt

I "espouse" anybody that litters this board with (Jr.) high empty rhetoric on either side.