Holder: No Torture Memo "Hide And Seek"

Release Of Interrogation Memos Won't Be Selective, AG Says; Alleged Torture Victim Files Suit

(CBS/AP)  Attorney General Eric Holder told Congress on Thursday he won't play "hide and seek" with secret memos about harsh interrogations of terror suspects and their effectiveness.

In testimony before the House Appropriations Committee, Holder said he's willing to release as much information as possible about the interrogations.

Several members of the committee pressed him about the Justice Department's release last week of four long-secret legal memos detailing the harsh techniques used on some detainees during the Bush administration.

"It is certainly the intention of this administration not to play hide and seek, or not to release certain things," said Holder. "It is not our intention to try to advance a political agenda or to try to hide things from the American people."

Republicans - including former Vice President Dick Cheney - have urged the Obama administration to release other, still-secret documents detailing what intelligence was gained from the controversial interrogation techniques.

"I think you have an obligation to release the rest of the memos," said Rep. Frank Wolf, R-Va.

Still, Jane Mayer, the author of an award-winning book about the CIA's anti-terrorist program, says Americans should weigh what the interrogators did against what they found out.

"Even if you got some information, was it worth it?" she said, speaking to CBS News Radio's Dan Raviv. "We know that pictures of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo became recruiting tools for Al Qaeda. They enraged the Muslim world and made them hate us."

Holder said he wasn't sure exactly which memos Cheney was referring to, because he hasn't seen them. The attorney general suggested such classified documents may exist at other agencies.

"I'm the attorney general and I don't control many of the memos you might be talking about," said Holder.

When the Obama administration released the memos last week, the president declared no CIA operatives who followed the memos' instructions would be prosecuted. The administration has not offered the same assurances to the memo authors or the Bush officials who oversaw the program.

Congressional Democrats have expressed a strong desire to conduct their own investigation of those officials.

At Thursday's hearing, members of both parties asked Holder if he plans to seek charges against those officials.

"I will not permit the criminalization of policy differences. However, it is my responsibility as attorney general to enforce the law. It is my duty to enforce the law. If I see evidence of wrongdoing I will pursue it to the full extent of the law," Holder said.

Officials are still awaiting the results of an internal Justice Department investigation into the actions of the memo-writers.

Separately Thursday, a Tunisian man detained after the Sept. 11 attacks filed a lawsuit in federal court claiming he was tortured at CIA-operated secret prisons in Afghanistan months before a Justice Department memo sanctioned the practices.

The suit, filed in U.S. District Court in Newark, is believed to be the first to allege acts of torture were committed before the secret Aug. 1, 2002, memo that approved waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods. The memo was declassified last week.

"It's impossible to claim that people who perpetrated torture relied on memos that didn't exist," said Josh Denbeaux, a northern New Jersey attorney who represents plaintiff Rafiq Alhami`.

According to the lawsuit, Alhami was arrested in Iran in November 2001 and taken to Afghanistan to three CIA "dark sites" where "his presence and his existence were unknown to everyone except his United States detainers" and his name was not included on any publicly available list of detainees.

Beginning in December 2001, Alhami was tortured repeatedly, the lawsuit claims.

The methods were varied: At different times Alhami was stripped naked, threatened with dogs, shackled in painful "stress" positions for hours, punched, kicked and exposed to extremes of heat and cold. The suit also alleges Alhami's interrogators sprayed pepper spray on his hemorrhoids, causing extreme pain.

The lawsuit doesn't claim Alhami was waterboarded, a technique that simulates drowning.

The torture continued after Alhami was transferred to the U.S. Naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in January 2003, where he currently is held, according to the suit.

The Justice Department didn't immediately return a message seeking comment Thursday.

Alhami has denied being a member of a terrorist group, and claims he was arrested based on information provided to the Iranian government by an Iranian citizen seeking a bounty.

According to the lawsuit, sometime within the last 18 months Alhami was convicted in absentia in Tunisia for violating that country's Patriot Act, despite the act being passed in 2003, two years after he was detained by the U.S.

The suit seeks damages of $10 million and targets dozens of named and unnamed defendants, including former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, former CIA Director George Tenet, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and Navy Rear Adm. Mark Buzby, former commander of the detention center at Guantanamo.

Denbeaux said the allegations in the lawsuit were pieced together from Alhami's recollections, declassified documents and information from human rights organizations.

[afrazier1]

If DickeyChineys Mantra is "Bring it On"
take it to him with 100% of the Federals Governments Capacity!!!
Posted by TeabagBandit
----------------------
Great Post. Telling it like it is! Americans really want to know what this guy was up to. Ask him where he was the day of 9/11. I'm thinking the White House War Room. Doing what? There's the question. I believe he was confusing NORAD.

[afrazier1]

Suppose Hollywood made a movie of a country that routinely uses "enhanced interrogation" (i.e. torture). Would you consider the guys doing it in the movie "bad guys"? Chances are that you would because they would be wearing twisted crosses on their arms. The only way for this country to heal itself is to bring some of these (not all is necessary) high-level perps to trial. Then America can feel the medicine of justice really working and producing the cure that is needed. Otherwise, were just doing like any depressive person and burying the pain of the past 8 years inside. Sooner or later it will explode and probably without the results we want.

[promaclaura]

Then so are the Democrats that "willingly" went along with them, for Iraq and waterboarding. If you give them a pass, it proves how blind you are.
Posted by promaclaura

--------------------------

Hey laurie, a handful of Democrats were merely informed by Bush administration officials and told that legal counsel had advised that it was legal (conveniently omitting the legal opinions that said it wasn't legal.) It was the Bush administration who approved the use of torture, beginning with Rice. Understand the difference?
Posted by raflin1 at 7:50 AM : Apr 24, 2009

You're reaching for straws with this one, they sat through numerous briefings. What were they doing when they were briefed, playing tiddly winks? Come on, then the question that begs to be asked is "how come they didn't put up a stink when "waterboarding" was presented as a method? Who cares if they were told it was "legal", don't they have their own "legal" people to give them advice on whether it was right of wrong? Are you telling me that the Democrat's didn't do THEIR due diligence and present their own findings? Why are they (Pelosi) at that level of government if they are so lame? Why is it so easy for you to believe everything that comes out of a Democrat's mouth, it's glaringly obvious they are trying to play for constituents for fools. Get rid of them all, the very fact that "Bush" who is often called dumb, ignorant, stupid and so on (from Democrats) can pull the wool over the eyes of the whole Democratic Party is just plain lame. Are you saying that all your "smart" representatives were fooled by Bush?

[afrazier1]

What the hell are we doing having this conversation? For God's sake, think just a few years back. All this torture stuff makes us no better than the NAZIS of WWII. I had a guy I work with say he went through the water-boarding thing in the military as training. I asked him how many times? "Oh, just once" he responds. "So you don't see this as torture?" I ask. "NO" he says. "Would you do it again?" I ask? He says "Never again". Okay then, try 183 times in one month or an average of 6 times a day. Would that be torture? C'mon people, stop and use your freaking brain for a change. When people talk that it's okay to use "enhanced interrogation" it makes me sad to be an American. True Americans DO NOT torture anyone!

[promaclaura]

promaclaura , He should submit himself tho the same standards as the "Gitmo Standard" not the Faux News Standard.
Posted by TeabagBandit at 6:34 AM : Apr 24, 2009

Reported demonstrations
Two televised segments, one from Fox News and one from Current TV, demonstrate a waterboarding technique.[22][23] In the videos, each correspondent is held against a board by the interrogators. In the Current TV segment, a rag is then forced into the correspondent's mouth, and several pitchers of water are poured onto the rag. The interrogators periodically remove the rag, and the correspondent is seen to gasp for breath. The Fox News segment mentions five "phases" of which the first three are shown. In the first phase, water is simply poured onto the correspondent's face. The second phase is similar to the Current TV episode. In phase three, plastic wrap is placed over the correspondent's face, and a hole is poked into it over his mouth. Water is poured into his mouth through the hole, causing him to gag. He mentions that it really does cause him to gag; that it could lead to asphyxiation; and that he could stand it for only a few seconds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

Well, there you go. It'll be interesting to see what the media does if Hannity goes through with it, because he'll be able to argue his point and claim personal knowledge (how in the world will Olberman argue after that?).

Also, as soon as Hannity got it out of his mouth, I knew someone would call his bluff.

[promaclaura]

promaclaura ,
the Fact is, SHRUB Co and his gang are war criminals.
liars, and the last hangover from the Nixon era Corrupt Elite.
Posted by TeabagBandit at 6:29 AM : Apr 24, 2009

Then so are the Democrats that "willingly" went along with them, for Iraq and waterboarding. If you give them a pass, it proves how blind you are.

[promaclaura]

promaclaura

Like to watch : Torture and Murder - Do You ?

You seem Excited and Elated to watch : Torture

Looking forward to watching : Torture and Murder ?

You really get off at watching - Torture and Murder

promaclaura
You are : SICK - SICK - SICK - SICK - SICK
Posted by lastdance145 at 6:38 AM : Apr 24, 2009

Oh grow up you hyperventilating idiot, not once have I said I enjoyed watching waterboarding. It's not like I tuned in for the "show", it just happened to be a segment that was included in a news show, there's a big difference. Also, if Hannity does follow through with Olbermans challenge, who the heck am I to tell them what to do. I'd say Keith was the one that was eager beaver to put on a "waterboarding show" don't you?

ps It'll be the hand-wringing left that will tune in and they will pop popcorn for the show, mark my words.

pss Your long posts determining the id changes of other posters shows what a moron you are.

[lastdance145]

vistavermin1
I Remember you : (aka - DaVicar1 (aka - TheGateway1)

Saw their heads off with a knife.
Posted by TheGateway1 at 04:53 PM : Dec 15, 2007
_________
must really turn on the little girls at the park you frequent all the time.
Posted by TheGateway1 at 05:17 PM : Dec 15, 2007
_________
CBS allows little girls and boys on these forums
TheGateway1 -
__________
stay away from the teams shower rooms, and you won''t be an ''ex'' coach again.
Posted by TheGateway1 at 11:28 PM : Dec 28, 2007
____________
TheGateway1
Enjoys the Perverted and Demented.... Delusions of - Sawing off their heads and
Perusing little girls at the park - and now Taking showers Little boys ! !

Topic : Graves Probed At Brutal Fla. Reform School
Governor Opens Investigation Over Decades-Old Charges That Children Were Buried On Grounds
_______

since when is it illegal to bury dead people?
Posted by DaVicar1 at 01:23 PM : Dec 10, 2008
______

vistavermin1 : (aka - DaVicar1 (aka - TheGateway1)
Anyone who Belittles, Detracts from or tries to Minimize
CHILD TORTURE and CHILD MURDER
Also : Has the Emotions and Desires to Carry out those Acts and Deeds

Anyone who approves and talks positive on an issue of :
Sexual Degradation
Child Torture - Torture - Child Rape - Rape
Child Sodomy - Sodomy - Child Murder - Murder
Sexual Degradation, Rape, Sodomy, and Murder

Has the Desires, Passions and Fantasies of doing just that :

vistavermin1 : (aka - DaVicar1 (aka - TheGateway1)
Tell us - How long will continue to have these
Perverted, Degenerate, Desires, Passions and Fantasies of :
Committing : Child Torture - Torture - Child Rape - Rape
Child Sodomy - Sodomy - Child Murder - Murder
Sexual Degradation, Rape, Sodomy, and Murder

vistavermin1 : (aka - DaVicar1 (aka - TheGateway1)
You are : SICK - SICK - SICK - SICK - SICK -

vistavermin1 : (aka - DaVicar1 (aka - TheGateway1)
You don't belong in any type of Civilized Society
You NEED to be taken out of Society
You NEED to be watched Closely

vistavermin1 : (aka - DaVicar1 (aka - TheGateway1)
YOU ARE A THREAT and DANGER
TO ANY CIVILIZED SOCIETY ! ! !

[lastdance145]

promaclaura

Like to watch : Torture and Murder - Do You ?

You seem Excited and Elated to watch : Torture

Looking forward to watching : Torture and Murder ?

You really get off at watching - Torture and Murder

promaclaura
You are : SICK - SICK - SICK - SICK - SICK

[promaclaura]

Olbermann Calls Hannity's Bluff: $1000 For Every Second Of Waterboarding

04/23/09 11:49 PM


MSNBC's Keith Olbermann announced on Thursday that he is willing to pay $1,000 to charity for every second that Fox News anchor Sean Hannity undergoes waterboarding torture.

Hannity was prodded by actor Charles Grodin into agreeing to subject himself to waterboarding to benefit a charity for the families of U.S. soldiers.

On MSNBC tonight, Olbermann called on Hannity to stay true to his word, and argued the benefit of having the arch-conservative pundit tortured would be that he might finally recognize the "deadly seriousness" of the debate over detainee treatment.

"What a breakthrough it would be if, by having reality literally forced upon him, a buffoon like Hannity were to realize the deadly seriousness of this," Olbermann said. "The searing truth: that the moment of torture automatically makes the presumed bad guy recipient the victim, and makes the torturer into the evildoer."

From there, Olbermann laid out his offer: "For every second you last, a thousand dollars -- live or on tape, provided other networks' cameras are there. A thousand dollars a second, Sean, because this is no game. This is serious stuff. Put your money where your mouth is, and your nose. Oh, and I'll double it when you admit you feared for your life, when you admit the horrible truth -- waterboarding, the symbol of the last administration, is torture
Posted by rednomo at 5:58 AM : Apr 24, 2009


Hey I saw Hannity say that, what are you going to say if he follows through? I've already watched one Fox news correspondent volunteer and demonstrate waterboarding on himself, Hannity may very well call Oberrman's bluff and do it too. Boy, that'll be a field day for the Hannity haters, the coverage may surpass the Super Bowl.

[abbe91]

"This best point I saw yesterday is.. Your little girl is be held ransom by people who plan on killing her and you have one of them that you can get the location from what are you going to do???
Posted by vistavermin1 at 6:13 AM : Apr 24, 2009"

Easy : find somebody who has nothing to do with these people and torture him.

[abbe91]

"Alhami has denied being a member of a terrorist group, and claims he was arrested based on information provided to the Iranian government by an Iranian citizen seeking a bounty. "

Probably 9 out of 10 of the detainees have been arrested for the same reason. You don't like your neighbour, wand to get rid of him and get some cash too. A win-win.

[promaclaura]

Posted by promaclaura at 4:55 AM : Apr 24, 2009

You'll believe ANYTHING.

Those polls are not based on the release of the memos. Wait 1 month.
Posted by nancy_naive at 5:26 AM : Apr 24, 2009

No, that's you honey, those polls are not going to change as the majority of American's realize that Obama has too much on his plate to rehash this crap, THE MAJORITY SIMPLY DON'T WANT THIS!

The public is not "fooled" by the Democrat's agenda, and if you think the Democrat's that were FULLY INFORMED ABOUT THE INTERROGATIONS can play ignorance, chalk that up to YOUR believing "anything". You want a "witch hunt"? Then you better release all the info and bring EVERY Democrat that had knowledge and didn't do "squat" to YOUR hangman's noose as well. If you don't, well that's proof this is Democrat bull$hit to fool the public, just like they did with Iraq. "oh, we're soooo stupid, and that big/bad Bush well he fooled us". lol

[lastdance145]

Yep, the full story is coming out little by little. It wound be long until we
hear about the repeated tasaring etc.
Posted by mcthreeteeth at 11:39 AM : Apr 20, 2009
___

It was not : Tasaring

It was : Electro-Shock - Torture
The Same Torture done by : Federal Employees
That were forced upon Children - Incarcerated within :
Designated : State - Juvenile Detention Centers.


Girls aged : 8 thu 10
Boys aged : 10 thu 13

The Monarch Project - MKULTRA

[rednomo]

Olbermann Calls Hannity's Bluff: $1000 For Every Second Of Waterboarding

04/23/09 11:49 PM


MSNBC's Keith Olbermann announced on Thursday that he is willing to pay $1,000 to charity for every second that Fox News anchor Sean Hannity undergoes waterboarding torture.

Hannity was prodded by actor Charles Grodin into agreeing to subject himself to waterboarding to benefit a charity for the families of U.S. soldiers.

On MSNBC tonight, Olbermann called on Hannity to stay true to his word, and argued the benefit of having the arch-conservative pundit tortured would be that he might finally recognize the "deadly seriousness" of the debate over detainee treatment.

"What a breakthrough it would be if, by having reality literally forced upon him, a buffoon like Hannity were to realize the deadly seriousness of this," Olbermann said. "The searing truth: that the moment of torture automatically makes the presumed bad guy recipient the victim, and makes the torturer into the evildoer."

From there, Olbermann laid out his offer: "For every second you last, a thousand dollars -- live or on tape, provided other networks' cameras are there. A thousand dollars a second, Sean, because this is no game. This is serious stuff. Put your money where your mouth is, and your nose. Oh, and I'll double it when you admit you feared for your life, when you admit the horrible truth -- waterboarding, the symbol of the last administration, is torture

[rednomo]

The "torture prevented a west coast 9/11" lie

by Jed Lewison

Thu Apr 23, 2009

First of all, the background: No, Karl Rove, Marc Thiessen, and Fox News are not telling the truth when they claim that U.S. torture techniques prevented a 'west coast 9/11.'

Rove et al. claim that after CIA waterboarding, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed gave authorities information used to foil a plot to hijack an airplane with a shoe bomb and fly it into the tallest building in Los Angeles, the Library Tower (now known as the U.S. Bank Building).

In other words, Rove and his crew say torture saved America from another 9/11.

As Timothy Noah and Daily Kos TV have documented, however, the Rove timetable just doesn't add up. While KSM was arrested in March 2003, the plot was stopped in February 2002 -- more than a year earlier. Rove's tale could not possibly be true.

But like any pathological liar, Rove is pushing a lie containing threads of truth.

Rove (and his associate, former Bush speechwriter Marc A. Thiessen) cite a May 30, 2005 memo from DOJ's OLC to the CIA as their key source.

You have informed us that the interrogation of KSM -- once enhanced techniques were employed -- led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the "Second Wave," "to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into" a building in Los Angeles.

Keep in mind that this is a memo from DOJ to CIA, so "you have informed us" refers to something the CIA told DOJ.

Notice that while the sentence says KSM's torture "led to the discovery of a KSM plot" (the L.A. attack) it doesn't say that the torture led to the prevention of that attack. Why not? Because the attack had already been prevented in 2002.

In other words, torturing KSM may have allowed the CIA to figure out what had been prevented, but it didn't actually prevent anything.

[lastdance145]

Watch the Movie :

"Standard Operating Procedure" (2008)

Interviews with : Interrogators, US Military, Military Police,
Military Intelligence and Private Interrogation Contractors

Describing what they did at Abu Ghraib prison.
Accompanied with privately owned photos and videos.

For those who patronize : Usenet
Download from :
alt.binaries.movies.divx
alt.binaries.movies.xvid

Movie Synopsis :

Is it possible for a photograph to change the world?
Photographs taken by soldiers in Abu Ghraib prison changed the war in Iraq
and changed Americas image of itself.

Yet, a central mystery remains. Did the notorious Abu Ghraib photographs
constitute evidence of systematic abuse by the American military, or were
they documenting the aberrant behavior of a few bad apples?

We talked directly to the soldiers who took the photographs and who were
in the photographs. Who are these people? What were they thinking?

Over two years of investigation, we amassed a million and a half words of
interview transcript, thousands of pages of unredacted reports, and hundreds
of photographs.

The Abu Ghraib photographs serve as both an expose and a coverup.
An expose, because the photographs offer us a glimpse of the horror of
Abu Ghraib; and a coverup because they convinced journalists and readers
they had seen everything, that there was no need to look further.

In recent news reports, we have learned about the destruction of the
Abu Zubaydah interrogation tapes. A coverup. It has been front page news.
But the coverup at Abu Ghraib involved thousands of prisoners and hundreds
of American soldiers.

We are still learning about the extent of it. Many journalists have asked about
the smoking gun of Abu Ghraib. It is the wrong question.
As Philip Gourevitch has commented, Abu Ghraib is the smoking gun.

Four years after the scandal: how could American values become so
compromised that Abu Ghraiband the subsequent coverup could have happened.
__

Enjoy ! ! .... The Movie !

Each Republican NAZI Fascist Party Supporter
Will Truly enjoy the
Sexual Degradation,
Torture - Child Rape - Rape - Murder and
Sexual Degradation,
Discussed in this movie, by the people who actually perpetrated it

Its The Natural behavior of
The Loyal : Republican NAZI Fascist Party Supporter

[HAIRYONETOOOO]

Witch hunt!!

Thirty five years ago a corrupt, venal, president resigned when his own party could not stomach his corruption any longer, however his self-appointed flunky gave him a pardon of any and all crimes ever committed so he walked away clean, however many of his co-conspirators were not pardoned and did serve time, including his very corrupt attorney general, Mr. Mitchell. We need for these people who performed illegal acts to stand up in open court and account for their actions!!!!!!!

If it was ok, for the Republicans to make a sitting president testify about his sexual pecadillioes, it should be no problem to make a former president testify about his corruptness and lying to the American people about carrying us to war in Irag and his conduct.

I personally think Richard Nixon was a piker up side of George Bush when it comes to being corrupt.

[HAIRYONETOOOO]

If the left-wingers in the Democrat Party and their corrupt liberal pals in our MSM wolfpack press want to walk down this path.........go ahead.

If Obama wants to further "divide" this country then roll the dice and take your chances.........
Posted by perceptions5

The only ones who are "dividing" this country are the born-again bigots. Those like Texas Governor Rick Perry who is talking about seceding from the US, he's the kind that would probably invite the Aryan Nations and KKK in to be his secret police and slave catchers!!

[promaclaura]

Well according to the most accurate professional polling firm in America, Ramussen nearly 60% of Ameircans are AGAINST any further witch hunts by the Democrat Party:

"Only 28% of U.S. voters think the Obama administration should do any further investigating of how the Bush administration treated terrorism suspects.

Fifty-eight percent (58%) are opposed. Democrats are evenly divided over whether further investigation is necessary. Seventy-seven percent (77%) of Republicans and 62% of voters not affiliated with either major party are against more investigating."

If the left-wingers in the Democrat Party and their corrupt liberal pals in our MSM wolfpack press want to walk down this path.........go ahead.

If Obama wants to further "divide" this country then roll the dice and take your chances.........
Posted by perceptions5 at 4:40 AM : Apr 24, 2009


Oh, but they are giggling and feeling empowered now. Many of these posters think the "whole" country agrees with them, legends in their own minds. Obama will lose all the independents that have voted for him, ensuring a one term Presidency. Although that sounds enticing to me, I'd still rather he dropped this partisan lead "witch hunt". Heck, the head witch, Nancy Pelosi, is singing like a canary but the song is about her supposed "ignorance".