Waterboarding More Frequent, Memos Suggest

Alleged Sept. 11 Mastermind Waterboarded 183 Times; Obama To Speak At CIA

(CBS/AP)  The U.S. waterboarded suspected terrorists far more than previously acknowledged, including a total of 266 times for two al Qaeda operatives, according to recently released CIA memos.

The memos, issued in 2005 and made public by the Obama administration last week, detail Central Intelligence Agency officials using the controversial interrogation technique 183 times on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the self-described 9/11 mastermind, according to aNew York Times report.

CIA agents also used the simulated drowning technique on suspected terrorist Abu Zubaydah 83 times in August 2002, though CIA officer John Kiriakou, in a 2007 interview with ABC News, said Zubaydah was waterboarded for just 35 seconds before telling agents all he knew. (You can read the memos here)

The discrepancy between the CIA's former claims and the memo's revelations has prompted questions about the technique's efficacy.

Several bloggers have noted the memo detailing the interrogations of Mohammed and Zubaydah. "That doesn't sound very effective to me," wrote Marcy Wheeler of the Emptywheel blog.

President Barack Obama heads to CIA headquarters Monday, a visit clearly designed to reassure the leadership and rank-and-file at the spy agency of his confidence despite the release of the torture memos written and acted upon under his Republican predecessor.

Mr. Obama has repeatedly rejected policies approved by former President George W. Bush, whose administration engaged in what it termed enhanced interrogation of terrorism suspects. Those actions were carried out on legal advice from the Bush Justice Department.

Mr. Obama's visit to the spy agency was timed to buck up the agency after the memo release, which he accompanied with the message that "it is our intention to assure those who carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from the Department of Justice, that they will not be subject to prosecution." He did not specifically address the policymakers.

White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel said in a Sunday television interview that Mr. Obama does not intend to seek prosecution of Bush administration officials who devised the policies that led to the harsh interrogation of suspected terrorists.

Emanuel said that the president believes they "should not be prosecuted either and that's not the place that we go."

The decision not to seek charges against the interrogators has been criticized by the American Civil Liberties Union and called a violation of international law by the U.N.'s top torture investigator.

In his statement last week, the president said: "This is a time for reflection, not retribution. I respect the strong views and emotions that these issues evoke. We have been through a dark and painful chapter in our history. But at a time of great challenges and disturbing disunity, nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past."

Republican lawmakers and others contend that national security was undermined by the release of the memos. On Sunday, Obama administration officials pushed back vigorously against that claim.

"We are absolutely confident that we have the tools necessary to get the information we need to keep this country safe," senior presidential adviser David Axelrod said. "And we don't believe and the president of the United States does not believe that this is a contest between our values and our security. He thinks we can honor both and execute both. And that's what he's going to do."

Michael Hayden, who led the CIA under Bush, said the public release of the memos will make it harder to get useful information from suspected terrorists being detained by the United States.

"I think that teaching our enemies our outer limits, by taking techniques off the table, we have made it more difficult in a whole host of circumstances I can imagine, more difficult for CIA officers to defend the nation," Hayden said.

Administration officials said information in the memos already was in the public realm and that releasing details about interrogation techniques gave no new edge to al Qaeda and other terrorist groups.

Before heading to the CIA, Mr. Obama convenes his first formal Cabinet meeting and will ask department and agency chiefs to look for ways over the next 90 days to cut $100 million out of the federal budget, a senior administration official said.

Back from his fence-mending trip to Latin America and the Caribbean, Mr. Obama will be reminding the panel that American families are having to make tough financial decisions and need to know the government is spending their money wisely, too.

The first Cabinet meeting is being held just days after a series of "Tea Party" demonstrations across the country in which protesters challenged the administration over it's massive spending to help pull the country and its financial system out of an economic nose dive unseen in decades.

Mr. Obama's nominee to be health secretary, Democratic Gov. Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas, still has not been confirmed by the Senate and will not be present, nor will there be a designee.

[EJStnns]

ST: sorry that you do not believe who I am. I wanted to continue a discussion with you but now I feel there is no need to do so.

[abbe91]

"CIA agents also used the simulated drowning technique on suspected terrorist Abu Zubaydah 83 times in August 2002, though CIA officer John Kiriakou, in a 2007 interview with ABC News, said Zubaydah was waterboarded for just 35 seconds before telling agents all he knew.
The discrepancy between the CIA's former claims and the memo's revelations has prompted questions about the technique's efficacy."

There is no discrepancy there: He was waterboarded for 35 seconds, told akk he knew and they kept waterboarding for fun afterwards.

[searingtruth]

"Over a million humans are dead, Mr President, because Bush and Cheney lied us into a needless war.

My geuss is they'd really appreciate someone seeking justice for them."
nofoolling


Indeed fellow citizen.
ST


"We expect monsters to torture and murder, for that is their nature.

We expect Americans to be just and humane, for that is our nature."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[nofoolling]

Over a million humans are dead, Mr President, because Bush and Cheney lied us into a needless war.

My geuss is they'd really appreciate someone seeking justice for them.

[searingtruth]

So now their is no question.

The Bush administration engaged in illegal torture, in the name of the American people.

So the only legal course of action now is to prosecute all those involved, from all parties, from the highest level to the lowest level politician, CIA, FBI, NSA or military citizen involved.

And for all those who say "they don't want to look back, only forward", I have but one question.

If your child was tortured and/or murdered by someone, would you simply let them go, proclaiming you didn't want to look back, or would you demand just trials, and if found guilty, just punishment?

And let this be a wake up call for Obama and his administration. For in court Obama has continued to defend Bush's crimes, using Bush's same "state secrets" arguments, and Obama has even attempted to expand unconstitutional claims by asserting that under "state sovereignty" he has the right to spy on any American he wishes, even if they are not traveling or communicating outside of our nation.

And contrary to his statements that he would end secret prisons, and the torture and murder within them, in court he has claimed the right to do so, to the shock and dismay of Amnesty International, the ACLU, and civil liberties advocates throughout our nation and the world.

Fellow citizens, it is time for justice, for all.

As demanded by our Constitution, the wishes of our beloved founding fathers, and in the greatest tradition of America.
ST

"I writhed in anguish for years. Always knowing pain was coming, but never knowing what I should attempt to say next, or how I should appear so that my American torturers would believe me.

The problem was that I was innocent."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[searingtruth]

"A brutal hand is despised by all it touches."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[searingtruth]

"ST: you shouldn't be in doubt about who I am. I am advised to seek out possible avenues of communication if the navy deems it important to their global message. The only reason I said I was on the west coast is the computer communication goes thru a server in San Diego. No secret, it's a clearing house for western pacific news and information. ( see the Navy Dispatch.com)"
EJStnns


EJ, I'm now sure that you're not who you claimed to be.

I'm disappointed, but in the end really don't care.

I don't need to misrepresent myself to advance my American beliefs.

I let my words stand on there own. As do yours.
ST


"I writhed in anguish for years. Always knowing pain was coming, but never knowing what I should attempt to say next, or how I should appear so that my American torturers would believe me.

The problem was that I was innocent."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[EJStnns]

That's naive. the U.S. has spied on it's people since the 50's. The NRO keeps watch and alerts the government of any plots or pending misdeeds.

[searingtruth]

"THE RULE OF LAW?

CBs/AP reports, "Mr. Obama's visit to the spy agency was timed to buck up the agency after the memo release, which he accompanied with the message that "it is our intention to assure those who carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from the Department of Justice, that they will not be subject to prosecution."
---

Two Questions for Mr. Obama--

1. The NSA spied on Americans without warrant, and illegally. Who will protect us from abuse of our civil rights by intelligence agencies which are told the rule of law no longer applies?

2. Please explain how such lawbreakers "protect our security", if that security is ultimately founded on the rule of law?....
Rule of law is an essential trait of a civilized and democratic society. Anything less cannot endure, and history is littered with states which attempted rule by power, alone."
alphaa10000


Indeed. Thank you fellow patriot alphaa10000.
ST


"And so together we shared the fate of all the failed democracies before us, joining those pitiful beings who had held the light of freedom in one hand, and put it out with the other."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[EJStnns]

ST: you shouldn't be in doubt about who I am. I am advised to seek out possible avenues of communication if the navy deems it important to their global message. The only reason I said I was on the west coast is the computer communication goes thru a server in San Diego. No secret, it's a clearing house for western pacific news and information. ( see the Navy Dispatch.com)

[searingtruth]

"ST: great to see that you are still up at this hour. I lied, I'm actually at sasebo naval base in japan and have a few more minutes to talk. I'm an ensign in the navy and am authorized to tell you so. That's all the info I can say...."
EJStnns


Well EJ, I really don't care where you are, although I am now in doubt whether you are a military service member or not.

In any case, you don't need to lie about anything, just being an American, or a foreign citizen concerned about America, is fine. Just tell the truth, and we will all have a common point of reference.
ST


"Never be ashamed to be a human being. Even more importantly, never pretend you're not one."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[EJStnns]

ST; right now, I think you're the greatest. believe me. I am talking to many people around the globe. Al Jazzera on a regular basis and your ability to communicate without the usual gutter langauge that follows after a few posts is most welcome.

[EJStnns]

ST: great to see that you are still up at this hour. I lied, I'm actually at sasebo naval base in japan and have a few more minutes to talk. I'm an ensign in the navy and am authorized to tell you so. That's all the info I can say. the U.S. military right now is engaged at educating some that do not fully understand our mission. Your words are true. We want our prisoners to be treated as we would treat others as in accordance with the geneva convention. But that article is old. it still expects enemy combatants to come from "proper" states of warfare. not terrorists that make war from ones garage making bombs. the article needs to be ammended, just like the constitution, to coincide with present times.

Going back to our mission. other than warfare, the U.S. navy since the war on terror began has spent 70% of it's time in humanitarian deeds. stories that NEVER reach the newspapers. each carrier.( One that I am assigned to) provides hospital care to ones in need, emergency relief, we have water purifiers that are used in cases of hurricane/ typhoon or tsunami relief. the navy since 2001 has affectively helped over 10 million people with these carrier assests. that is one reason we are still seen as saviours to the 3rd world and are respected STILL, around the globe as bringers of relief and do it without charging the host country 1 dime. Yes ST. we are still renouned thru out the world as the most "giving" country on earth.

[searingtruth]

"Reading about the excessive number of times that water-boarding was used against JUST two men, it makes me wonder how many times to was used in total against the THOUSANDS of prisoners taken over the last several years?!

It also brings to mind the denials by Bush administration officials who claimed it WASN'T going on! ...At the rate he's offending his political base, President Obama won't have to worry about a second term!"
stn_sage


Indeed fellow patriot.

He has already lost me.
ST


"And so, just as Hitler and Stalin before them, Bush and his henchmen recruited brutal sociopaths to torture and murder, accounting only to their personal will. Lending them, wholeheartedly and enthusiastically, all necessary moral and legal blessing.

I have always been curious, and wondered, who the American people thought were torturing and murdering in our name."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[searingtruth]

"ST: are you there? I wanted to hear back from you before the night is over. I'm on the west coast."
EJStnns


As you can see EJ, I'm still here. I apologize for the delay, but when I'm posting I usually am engaged in multiple threads, and in fact have five going tonight. As I said before, I don't usually engage others personally, and if I do, it is usually only for a short while.

But I sensed your sincerity early on, and if you had let me know of your service I would have given you even more priority.

But it seems that our communication has nevertheless worked well, for ourselves, and our great nation.
ST


"A whisper of horror.
That's all we could hear."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[stn_sage]

Reading about the excessive number of times that water-boarding was used against JUST two men, it makes me wonder how many times to was used in total against the THOUSANDS of prisoners taken over the last several years?!

It also brings to mind the denials by Bush administration officials who claimed it WASN'T going on! I seem to recall Donald Rumsfeld and Condoleeza Rice---among others--- claiming during televised interviews, that the U.S. wasn't doing that! Apparently, it was!

Now, Rahm Emanuel says President Obama is NOT going to seek prosecution against
those responsible for implementing and carrying out these policies?! Do you hear that
'sucking' sound?! That's President Obama's credibility going down the drain!

At the rate he's offending his political base, President Obama won't have to worry about
a second term!

[searingtruth]

"ST: just carry on with your mission and you will succeed in a way most americans would not dream of. I am a member of the U.S. military and will defend this nation to my death, but it's always good to question. I wish members of the military would have questioned the orders of Lt. Calley."
EJStnns


Fellow citizen, Son My was indeed a test of soldiers on a battlefield, faced with an evil enemy while simultaneously receiving evil orders.

As for my mission, it is the same as yours. To uphold and defend The Constitution of the United States of America, at all cost.

But so far you are the only one, according to your posts, who has laid their life on the line to do so. And at this point I have no reason to doubt your words.

So I hope we can agree that the torture and murder of prisoners is wrong.

If for no reason other than that you and your fellow brothers in arms will be subject to the same treatment that America advocates for others.

And for an even deeper reason, the cause and continuance of American compassion.

For I still believe that we are the light of humanity.
ST


"My responsibility to humankind is no different than that of any other.
To uphold, uplift, and defend it."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

[EJStnns]

ST: are you there? I wanted to hear back from you before the night is over. I'm on the west coast.

[EJStnns]

ST: By the way, don't say fellow citizen anymore. call me EJ, if you please.

[EJStnns]

ST: You always follow up your posts with quotations from history. I would like to leave you one from who I think came from Julius Ceaser. ( I could be wrong but have always liked this one) and has to do with doing what is necessary now!

"Upon the plains of hesitation
bleach the bones of countless millions
who, upon the thresh hold of their victory
sat down to wait, and waiting they died".