Gun Sales: Will The "Loophole" Close?

60 Minutes: Fear Of Tighter Gun Control May Be Contributing To Big Rise In Gun Sales

(CBS)  This story was first published on April 12, 2009. It was updated on July 16, 2009.

In the national debate over the right to bear arms, the election of Barack Obama was seen as a victory for those who want stricter gun controls.

But so far, things haven't worked out that way. The president recently signed a law allowing people to carry loaded guns in national parks.

Membership in the National Rifle Association, the NRA, has been rising and, as 60 Minutes and correspondent Lesley Stahl first reported in April, the financial crisis is having its own rather surprising effect: in past downturns people stocked up on things like canned soups, but this time it's guns. And even as the stock market was plummeting, shares in Smith and Wesson were going through the roof.

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When Stahl showed up at the weekend gun show in Richmond, Va., the line to get in went around the building.

"How many guns will be sold at a show like this over a weekend like this?" Stahl asked Philip Van Cleave, the president of Virginia's largest gun-rights group.

"Probably thousands," he estimated.

Van Cleave took 60 Minutes on a tour inside a world that's part arms bazaar, part "Antiques Road Show." And while the memorabilia may not be to everyone's liking - when it came to firearms - there was a perfect gun for every taste.

"They actually made guns in colors. Lot of women like pink guns," Van Cleave told Stahl. "The good thing about a pink gun is a man will never steal it from you."

You could tell gun sales are up because all around the 60 Minutes team, dealers and customers at the show were busy filling out the paperwork needed for FBI background checks. Since November, the number of background checks nationally has jumped over 30 percent compared to last year.

Asked if prices are going up, Van Cleave said, "Yeah, the prices have gone up. In fact a rifle like this, which is $700, probably a year ago would have been about half of that."

One reason, he says, people are willing to dole out the cash during this financial meltdown - is the financial meltdown.

"We're being told all the time that, 'Oh, boy. The economy could just collapse. And we could fall into chaos.' Well, chaos is a good reason to be able to protect yourself," Van Cleave said.

"And this is what are in people's minds and driving them into these shows and gun stores?" Stahl asked.

"It's a form of insurance policy," Van Cleave said. "You could imagine if we truly had a collapse of the economy and it was hard to find food, those that did manage to hang onto food might find themselves in a precarious position."

But the bigger reason for this gun rush is best summed up by one gun show commercial: "Buy! Sell! Trade up and cash in! Celebrate the Second Amendment and get your guns while you still can!"

"While you still can" is code for "Barack Obama wants to take your guns away and re-impose the ban on assault weapons."

"President Obama, when he was a senator in Illinois, pushed for every gun ban he could," Van Cleave claimed.

"I actually heard that ammo was going quickly because people are afraid he's gonna increase taxes on ammunition," Stahl said.

"That's another possibility," Van Cleave said. "Certainly, a gun wouldn't be any good without ammunition."

People are stockpiling bullets. Three hours into the show, empty stock trays piled several feet high. Fear of Obama has actually created a national ammo shortage.

Asked if the gun lobby is whipping up these fears, Van Cleave told Stahl, "I don't know. I don't think so. I think the elections took care of that themselves."

The number of FBI background checks does not reflect all the gun sales, because of something called "the loophole." In Virginia and more than 30 other states, people who aren't gun dealers can sell firearms at gun shows without conducting background checks.

Actually, these private sellers can peddle their guns anywhere: at shows, in their private homes, or out of their cars.

Stahl met Gerald Massengill, the former police superintendent of Virginia, in the parking lot of the gun show. He showed her license plates from up and down the East Coast.

He told Stahl that people come to shows like the one in Virginia because that's where guns are easier to buy.

[lithvak]

Feinstein will eventually be in prison or hang from the end of a rope for her crimes against humanity! It's only a matter of time, if she lives that long.

[jhenry3107]

I beleive this new legislation is a big win for consumers who is ready to buy a new car with fuel efficient models

Jhenry
Blogger
www.cashforclunkersfacts.info
http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.info

[Left-neck]

Right-wing gun owners are going to vote Pepublican anyway. The real swing vote is "Left-Necks, defined by Joe Bageant as "Progressive gun owners who change their own oil". I doubt that Nancy Pelosi changes her own oil.

[gunownerdan]

"How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual ... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised, and taken care of."
- Dr. Suzanna Gratia Hupp, Killeen Texas Luby's massacre survivor

www.A-HUMAN-RIGHT.com

[Wolf1944]

Over and over on this thread, I have seen the Internet myth about how Australia banned guns 12 months ago and saw a big increase in gun murders.

Australia instituted a buy-back program for certain types of guns 13 years ago, and it has seen a decline in murders of all kinds over that period. In 2007 the Aussies posted a record low number of murders.

See http://www.wesh.com/news/20017057/detail.html

[BuickCJ1]

If law-abiding citizens who have been backgrounded for carry permits have successfully passed the check, then they should be permitted to do so. There are not as many police around in some sectors of the nation and local law enforcement expects solid citizens to help when needed.

There are too many illegal gun toting bad guys around. These are the ones who tend to make the news and reality shows. The good folks generally act as a preventive measure in some communities which see little or no crime as the word is out to the bad guys.

Just remember why the Japanese dropped their plans to invade the U.S. in 1942. Admiral Yamamoto (who lived in the U.S. and attended Harvard) knew that many Americans were armed and would not stand for a foreign invasion. An armed society is a polite society. Sadly the bad guys mess it up for everyone else.

[Wolf1944]

The story about Admiral Yamamoto is only a rumor. It's discussed at http://www.wesh.com/news/20017057/detail.html

[joewger]

Law Abiding Gun owners dont commit crimes with any kind of assault weapon, its innercity criminals that do. Punish all criminals severely! Gun owners want you to. But that would be discrimination, so slap them on the wrist and put them back on the street to commit more crime and eventually kill someone. Then blame the Gun Owners and punish them by banning guns when you socialists and 60 minute pansies know you are the problem with this country and your biased stories.

[joewger]

All I can say to Antigun people is this. Gun owners want you to give anyone a death sentence who commits murder with a gun. The fact is that inner cities commit the most crime in this country and the criminals that possess these guns are given a slap on the wrist by a corrupt legal system and corrupt judges and lawyers out to make money. So criminals will always obtain guns no matter how strict or what kind are out there. Punishing legal gun owners is the norm and punishing criminals is discrimination. People with safes that are law abiding wont worry about their illegitmate kids killing someone over a pair of sneakers or robbing someone of their social security check. Legal Gun owners dont kill people, remember that. They protect their families from illegal ones with any weapon they choose to under the freedom to do so by the constitution of the United States.

[gastonlaw]

I wonder where Ms. Stahl's fact checker was when she spoke this line:

"AKs [rifles] and other firearms, once forbidden under the ban, now fill entire tables at gun shows; you can buy them from private sellers without a background check."

AK's, AR's, SKS's and the like (with some cosmetic modifications) *were* available for sale during the Clinton-era ban. It's an historical fact.

Automatic firearms (machine guns) have been regulated since the Firearms Act of 1934. It is that class of firearms that the "Drug Cartels" use in their trade. Police officers also have those weapons at their disposal -- check with your local SWAT team.

I understand and accept that the producers of this piece have a policy objective to pursue but please, please get your facts right.

After all, what would Uncle Walter say?

[Tvelong]

I served my country from 1964-1969 and only spent 2.5 of those years in American..the rest of the time I was on foreign soil defending our rights. Our country was built on violence..like it or not. But the other countries I served in had the violence and no way to defend themselves. I came home and then served 40 years as a police officer. I would like to think I have seen enough to tell you that if men and women do not stand up for what is right they will lose thier right to stand up. I'll keep my freedom peacefuly or...whatever it takes. God Bless America

[bodlin]

Parents: Before your kids go off to play at a friend's house, instead of asking the person in charge there if they'll be supervised, etc., ask if there are guns in the home. If the answer is yes, just say no. These yahoos who are so big into protection have their guns locked and loaded, waiting to be attacked. What's the purpose of having a weapon if the ammo is in one place and the gun in another?

[agsforever]

good point bodlin. I teach anyone whom I invite into my house that all my guns are loaded. all the time. I teach and warn them that they are not to handle any firearm thinking that it is not loaded. that they should assume every firearm they touch is loaded. that they should never let the muzzle of the firearm cover anything they don't want to destroy. and that they are to KEEP their finger off the trigger until they are ready to destroy that object. if there are very young (pre-school) kids involved, I teach them, if you see a gun, please get your parent or an adult before touching it. I teach them that no gun is a toy and is never to be treated as such. including BB guns and paintball guns. (water pistols, i don't know about). if you have young kids that visit other kids houses where the parents may have firearms, ask those kids and the parents whether they teach the same rules. if they don't, don't let the kids go there.

an "unloaded" firearm is one of the most dangerous objects on earth. similarly a dull knife, or an improperly maintained screwdriver or other tool.

[jwicked6]

If all these guns are so bad, How come the Department of Justice says less than 1 percent of legally purchased firearms are used in crimes.
What is an Assault Weapon? Can't someone assault you with a car?, hammer? knife? How many people are killed every year by cars? Why aren't we trying to ban them?
Oh, and by the way, what does "Shall not be infringed" mean?

John W.

[sentel]

Whenever the issue of gun control (or lack of it) comes up in the media, the ensuing comments are essentially a chorus of voices shouting: "keep your hands of my guns, I need them to protect myself" or something in that flavor.

What strikes me as the biggest paradox here is that the gunnies (gun right advocates) are mostly responsible for the very problem that they want to be able to defend themselves from, an armed attacker.

Do ask yourself: Who allows criminals and crazies get their guns?

The simple answer is YOU!

If you supprt NRA and other gun industry political power machines, it's you who's allowing the criminals to get guns. It's the gun lobby and all the people supporting them with money, votes and words who are the criminals' best friend.

I have absolutely no problem with guns in hands of responsible people, but the operating principle here is the word "responsible".

If you're claiming the right to have deadly force at your disposal, you need to prove to the society or your community that you are not a deranged maniac or otherwise a dangerous person. Yet, the gunnies are all about their rigths and none of the responsibilty. To me, that's a definition of insanity.

It is utterly selfish and immoral to clamor and agitate for guns anytime, anywhere and forget that these actions have devastating consequences for thousands of innocent people every year.

The 60 minutes piece is just one more reminder that there really is no such thing as "gun control" if anyone can just buy a trunkful of weapons as easy as one would buy a toaster.

[Ragnar58]

If what you wrote was the truth, then Great Britain and Australia would have no gun crime. The truth, however, is that since these two countries implemented some of the most draconian firearms laws in existence, their gun crimes have skyrocketed. You should check your facts before publishing them. Otherwise, you simply come across as a shill for the gun-banners.

[Wolf1944]

Once again, I see the bogus story about Australia's gun crimes "skyrocketing." Australia instituted a buy-back program for certain kinds of guns 13 years ago (not 12 months as the gunnies always say). Since then murders of all kinds have declined. In 2007 Australia had an all-time low number of murders. You can see facts and figures and a nice graph at http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_gun_control_in_australia_lead_to.html

[Ragnar58]

"...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which part of infringed has you confused? Would 60 Minutes be in favor of a law to limit bloggers access to the internet?
The U.S. Constitution and it's Bill of Rights is a contract our forefathers made between the government and U.S. citizens. We seem to have lost sight of this simple fact. I suppose civics is no longer taught.
Leslie, why didn't you ask Diane if she has bodyguards who carry firearms?

[chickentied]

What a biased piece of fear mongering. You'd hope their journalistic integrity would make them be a little more balanced. They put the virginia tech massacre at the forefront. Look at the poor girl who's disfigured for life. How outrageous, the law they were fighting to get passed in virginia didn't get through. Never mind that the gunman actually went through a background check and passed. Sure they mention that tidbit briefly in between pictures of bloody bodies and the the girl's disfigured face. What happened at Virginia Tech had nothing to do with private citizens buying guns from each other without a background check. Is trying to make a connection between the two? Is that honest journalism?

[CraigBerkeley]

See what Gun Controller California and a lying California attorney, Gun Controller Steven T. Schoonover, and flip flopper James K. Olson did here to a Nevada citizen?s right to have a gun to protect herself after James K. Olson had broken into this Nevada citizen?s home! Gun Controllers Among Us, Marin County California Courts

Most liberal Gun Controller Marin County California has repeatedly thumbed their nose at the US Constitution, then imposed their illegal Gun Controller actions onto a Nevada citizen. What's next?

Lying California attorney, Steven T. Schoonover had the Nevada citizen served at 7:30 Thursday evening in Nevada for a 9 am the following Monday court in California and the California incompetent Gun Controller judge allowed that 1 day notice although illegal as have to be served more than 10 days before a hearing and furthermore it was to a Nevada citizen!

Three strikes you?re out lying California attorney, Gun Controller Steven T. Schoonover

http://reno.broowaha.com/article.php?id=3749
http://www.babelation.com/?q=node/1833
http://reno.broowaha.com/article.php?id=3630

[Wtally]

As a gun owner and lover I support closing the Gun Show Loophole. In my experience it's mostly crazies who patronize these shows. I buy all my guns over the internet.

[agsforever]

wtally, there ain't no gun show loophole. there isn't any gun show loophole. there can't be any gun show loophole.

your comment that "it's mostly crazies who patronize these shows." is an insult and a slur. I doubt your statement that you are a gun owner and a gun lover. You state you buy all your guns over the internet. don't think so. unless you have a federal firearms license. and comply with all requirements of federal law. if you are getting them without compliance with these unconstitutional laws, you, sir or madam, are one of the worst offenders.

[sam-kiley]

bonjour,
la question que je me pose, est la suivante..
pourquoi est ce que le citoyen américain se sentirait-il constamment menacé, plus qu'un autre..sur cette planéte.....et éprouver le besoin de posséder une arme pour se défendre...
autre chose toutes les lois sont en pertuel changement....amélioration..
qu'en est-il de la loi sur la vente d'armes aux états unis...cette loi qui endeuille des familles....au quotidien...(facilité d'obtention d'armes) merci

[agsforever]

huh? comment appears to be in French. Please provide translation.

[xj2k1]

What I have not heard about the "Gun Show Loophole" is this. The background check option is NOT available to private sellers of firearms. I have sold guns at gun shows. And, I have attempted to do background checks. I called the Arizona Dept. of Public Safety (State Police), and was told (somewhat rudely) by a supervisor. That it was not his job. The owner of a local gun shop, told me that private individuals are not allowed to use the system. If you want to close the "loophole". ALLOW us to do background checks. I would be glad to. I'm as concerned as anyone about guns in the hands knuckleheads. And. I'm a life member of the NRA.

[Wolf1944]

Maybe private sellers could be required/allowed to sell using a gun shop as a broker. Then the gun shop could run the background check.

[agsforever]

wolf, why should private citizens be forced to get police permission to exercise a constitutional right? this is like being forced to get police permission to vote for a particular candidate. no difference.

Xj2k1, best thing to do is not sell to anyone you don't know personally. and I mean know. their character, their police record. everything.

[darknessesedge]

wonder how many guns the hosts of 60 minutes own?
or what kind of state of the art security systems they have that the avg American cant afford?