Warning Signs Ignored In Va. Tech Shooting

CBS Evening News: Author Of New Book, And Tutor To Killer Seung-Hui Cho, Says She Sought Help For Him

(CBS)  The massacre in Binghamton, N.Y., last week has chilling similarities to the tragic shooting at Virginia Tech that left 33 people dead in 2007.

Both were carried out by a loner, obsessed with guns and bent on revenge.

In a new book, a former Virginia Tech professor writes that she saw warning signs before the attack on campus. She tried to sound the alarm, reports CBS News anchor Katie Couric. But no one listened.

Sirens pierced the air on a cold day. By the end of a murderous shooting spree, 23-year-old Seung-Hui Cho killed 27 students, five teachers, and then himself.

"This is a tragedy that's about a failure of imagination," said Lucinda Roy, the author of No Right To Remain Silent. "I mean, in many ways, people couldn't imagine something really terrible happening on a campus as beautiful and pristine and picturesque as ours."

But Roy could imagine it. In the fall of 2005, when she was chair of the English department, a colleague had alerted her to Cho's disturbing writings and disruptive behavior. Roy writes that Cho's classmates were afraid of him, and that he was taking cell phone pictures of them under his desk.

Concerned, Roy decided to tutor him privately, and found a student wearing dark reflective sunglasses who was almost always unresponsive.

"It's actually a bit terrifying in some ways to be with someone when you realize that all you are getting are things that bounce off them," Roy said.

In Roy's view, this was a very serious situation.

"There are a few times when you get nervous enough that you want to make sure you're really contacting multiple people. And this seemed, to me, to be one of those times," she said.

Roy contacted four different departments on campus, including the counseling center and university police. She was desperate for Cho to get help.

But, "I was told that - that would never happen," Roy said. "Because I was essentially requiring a student to seek counseling."

And that's against Virginia Tech policy as it is at several schools across the country, unless it's an emergency, and administrators claim Roy did not indicate it was an emergency situation.

"She indicated that she had worked out a satisfactory arrangement with him and didn't feel the need for any further involvement," said Ed Spencer, the school's vice president of Student Affairs.

"If I'd only just met with him very quietly and hadn't been campaigning for the entire year, I would say that interpretation was possible," Roy said.

Cho did get psychiatric help at an off-campus facility after he threatened to commit suicide. He was evaluated, but released when he was no longer considered a threat. At the end of that same year, he voluntarily contacted the school's mental health center. Records of any treatment he may have received there are missing.

"I learned that he had gone over and had gone over repeatedly, not just once," Roy said. "But was never really examined."

The university says they also were unaware of his history of mental health problems.

"If a student has been through counseling and maybe even intense counseling in middle school and high school that is protected information," Spencer noted.

And because Cho was over 21 at the time, his parents were never contacted.

A special state panel convened after the shooting concluded the school had misinterpreted privacy laws and had failed to connect the dots.

"If everybody did their job the way they were supposed to, I'm convinced that 33 lives would be with us today," said Joe Samaha, whose 18-year-old daughter Reema was shot and killed in French class.

Other victims' parents agreed.

"Cho was crying out for help," said Lori Haas, whose daughter Emily was wounded by two of Cho's bullets, but survived. "He sent up red flag after red flag after red flag."

Since the shootings, Virginia Tech has made some changes, adding additional counselors and establishing a risk assessment team to handle troubled students. But Lucinda Roy says the tragedy could be repeated - if warning signs continue to be missed in troubled students.

"You get very, very few opportunities to help someone who is mentally disturbed. Very few," Roy said. "And when you get them, you must take them."

[johninpennsyl]

"Cho did get psychiatric help at an off-campus facility after he threatened to commit suicide. He was evaluated, but released when he was no longer considered a threat. At the end of that same year, he voluntarily contacted the school's mental health center. Records of any treatment he may have received there are missing. "

What means "missing"?
If you are a FFL try telling BATF your records are missing.
Tell the IRS your records are missing.
This leads one to wonder who treated and did what to this lunatic-they should hold these shrinks to the standards they hold gun dealers .

[LOL_AT_CBS]

Hypothetical: say I am Seung-Hui Cho, A real nut job, I want to kill myself but I would only be just a blurb in the local obits and no one would ever know my name I would not be anything more than a statistic. BUT WAIT! If I massacre 33 students and go down as a mass murdering syco I will be glorified on all major network news programs and my name will go down in history! CBS and the rest just play into these maniacs scheme and until we stop glorifying these morons we will continue to see these mass shooting until they no longer get all this attention.

[pdbmarchmaddness]

Great job, Katie.

The real problem here is that Virginia Tech is trying to cover up their culpability in this mess. The administration of universities like Virginia Tech are accountable to no one. There is no oversight from the federal and state governments, which just hand colleges money without monitoring their activities. Also, the accreditation agencies are funded by the schools they are supposed to regulate. These universities have large teams of lawyers, funded by student and taxpayer tuition money, and they really want to be sued.

Keep up the good work.

[globalcoolin]

CBS is now CELEBRATING gun violence. This is a discrimination campaign against the law abiding firearms owner and example of activist journalism.
The next terrbile event in our population of 300 million people, may well be triggered it's self from articles and "news" stories inflicted on the public by CBS news.
This is NOT the first time in this nation in recent history we have had killings like this in rapid order!
Pilots need firearms, and it's becoming appearent merchant ship crews should have rudimentry arms with instruction and at least one .50 caliber aboard the ship as Hillary Clinton is laughing at the piracey probelm.
As our Government abdigates responsibilty to counter terror and crime the watch word should be, get a firearm, get instruction. tell a friend to,too.

[claydowner]

Several generations ago the NRA used to be an organization that promoted responsible gun ownership and firearm safety, proper hunting sportsmanship, and conservation of wildlife and respect for the law. Now they have become an extremist single issue organization for right winged zealots with a chip on their shoulder against the rest of society. I believe law abiding people should be allowed to own guns for hunting or home defense. I own firearms but the NRA does not speak for me. Common sense gun control laws are needed in America. All semiautomatic handguns and semiautomatic rifles with 20 round or 30 round ammo magazines need to be outlawed. The NRA creates a political culture that promotes the needless slaughter of Americans. More people die in America from homicides, suicides, and accidents each year from firearms than al Quaida killed on 9-11 and other terrorist attacks both before and after 9-11. There have been about 4,500 American soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan with another 35,000 wounded from 2002 until the present. This is after SEVEN YEARS OF COMBAT OPERATIONS IN TWO COUNTRIES. In 2004 alone there were over 8,000 homicides by handguns in America. In 2004 there were 16,907 suicides by firearms. It was estimated by the Center for Disease Control and Prevention that there were 52,447 deliberate shooting injuries and 23,237 accidental shooting injuries in the year 2000. When looking at the homicide rates from 1976 through 2004 by method, handgun deaths every year in America ranged from a low of 8,000 deaths per year to a peak of over 14,000 homicides in 1994. Handgun deaths are double and triple the rate for all other homicide methods such as knives, blunt trauma, etc. every single year.

Here are the rates of firearm homicides per 100,000 persons followed by the overall homicide rate per 100,000 persons: Australia 0.31 firearm homicides and overall homicide rate 1.57, Canada: 0.54 with firearms and 1.58 overall, England Wales: 0.12 with firearms and 1.45 overall. The United States had 2.97 homicides with firearms per 100,000 persons and an overall homicide rate of 4.55 per 100,000 persons. These statistics are from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 2000, Intentional Homicides by Country. The table also showed that most NATO countries in Europe had similar homicide rates comparable to the United Kingdom with some small variations.

If you read carefully about all of the mass murders committed in the United States in recent years you come across a common thread: semiautomatic pistols with 20 round or 30 round ammo magazines were used in nearly all of them. Look at the Columbine shootings, the Virginia tech incident, and many other smaller multiple homicides around the country like Omaha, Nebraska and Alabama you will notice that semiautomatic pistols with large ammo clips were frequently used by the assailant(s). There were some cases of semiautomatic rifles used in mass homicides but they are much rarer. The killer had hundreds of rounds of ammunition in clips ready to shoot with two or more semiautomatic pistols. The killer also fired many dozens sometimes hundreds of rounds in the first few minutes of the assault. These are all indications of semiautomatic weapons with large ammo clips. There is clear linkage between semiautomatic pistols with large ammo clips and multiple homicides and massacres in America. These are simple facts just look up the AP wire stories or look at local newspaper stories where these tragedies have occurred. Also over 7,000 people in Mexico were killed in 2008 by firearms purchased in the US often at gun shows. The most common type of firearm confiscated were assault rifles like the Chinese SKS, AK-47, or AR-15 semiautomatic rifles with 20 round or 30 round magazines. A skilled gunsmith can very quickly turn a semiautomatic rifle into a fully automatic rifle. Large numbers of semiautomatic pistols capable of using large ammo clips have also been confiscated in Mexico all legally bought in the United States. What a terrible and horrible neighbor we make for Mexico. The US should be ashamed of itself for allowing such carnage from weapons bought within our borders.

The NRA is an extremist political organization that creates a unique culture of death, massacre, and killing American style that is not tolerated in Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom. No law abiding civilian in America needs a fully automatic weapon or a semiautomatic pistol with large ammo clips to go hunting or for home defense. Gun shows should be outlawed. Semiautomatic weapons of any kind need to be outlawed. People who belong to the NRA are insecure right winged zealots whose political actions condone a culture of mass murder and mass killings. Canada, Australia, and England have said NO to carnage caused by semiautomatic firearms. America needs to do the same. The NRA should be destroyed as an organization because they are like the mafia only worse.

[JoeNVirginia]

I need a little help from those who think gun control makes America safer. I carry a gun 24/7: in the house and out of the house. My carry permits provide legal carry in more than half the United States. I once carried a gun while helping save a person?s life. I am very good with a firearm; I practice weekly. If I happen along where another is attempting to murder you or your loved ones, what do you want me to do? Do you want me to use my gun to save lives or should I stand aside and watch? Please answer. I wouldn?t want anyone upset with me for preventing their murder. And remember; those without a gun must just watch murder.

[geena5]

do they go over the warning signs for how to deal with criminal perhaps homicidal students at schools and universities? They should have a meeting at every school for all ages about the warning signs for troubled kids who may be turning criminal. I know at the middle school I went to in Las Vegas was horrible with frequent drive-by shootings and the teachers seemed like it was so common they just ignored it and stayed in their offices as much as possible. kids just being ignored year after year are going to just get more criminal when not stopped at the petty crimes

[payasyougo]

The only people who should be allowed to own a semiautomatic handgun or rifle are law enforcement officials.
----
1.) GENEVA, Alabama (CNN) -- The gunman who authorities said launched a shooting rampage over three south Alabama towns, slaying 10 people in his path before killing himself, was once a police officer in Samson, the small town hit hardest by the deadliest crime in the state's history.

2.)Former Police Officer to Face Murder Charges in BART Shooting
The ex-officer is being held in connection with the shooting of Oscar Grant, a 22-year-old supermarket worker from Hayward who was lying facedown after being pulled off a BART train by police investigating a fight.

3.) Three Former Atlanta Police Officers Sentenced to Prison in Fatal Shooting...
Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:09pm EST

That's right. The world would be safer if only police were allowed guns as seen by these three examples of cops going to jail for killing civilians.
These are three examples of why it is the individual behind the weapon that is the problem.
Based on your logic, cops shouldn't be allowed to carry guns either.

[payasyougo]

"Warning Signs Ignored In Va. Tech Shooting
CBS Evening News: Author Of New Book, And Tutor To Killer Seung-Hui Cho, Says She Sought Help For Him"
-----
No accountability for not dealing w/ all the warning signs. But quick, ban the guns.

[displeased]

Here's a sign: he owned a gun.
Crazy follows.
Posted by jumkey

You're suggesting 80 million gun owners will eventually go on a shooting spree? You're not very logical, are you?

[Aussie1761]

Dear creeper00
In Australia major gun massacres occurred in and up to 1996 . 150 people died in multiple death shootings alone in the decade starting January 1987. Stricter gun laws were introduced in Australia after these massacres. The gun death rate in Australia has noticeably been reduced since 1995.
People of criminal intent will always find ways around laws, because that is their lot in life, that is what criminals do. But for Mr or Mrs ordinary Australian citizen it is now very difficult to purchase or own a gun.

[creeper00]

What is it with you gun-opponents, anyway? Do you think if you took away every weapon in the country that we wouldn't still see incidents like this?

You don't get it, do you? Guns are just the handiest, quickest way to kill someone. When you're flat-out crazy, as these people are, you'll get the job done somehow, even if you have to

stab them to death,
http://www.masslive.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/news-39/1238334848311630.xml&storylist=massnews

burn them alive,
http://kotv.com/news/topstory/?id=130110

poison them,
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/17/world/rat-poison-murder-weapon-of-choice-in-rural-china.html

or blow them up,
http://northloop.14gram.com/british-probe-finds-bomb-killed-bhutto-report-afp

Wake up, people. It isn't the guns. It's us!

[claydowner]

Bottom line up front: No civilian should own a semiautomatic firearm of any kind period. I do not care whether it is a pistol, rifle, or a shotgun. No semiautomatics with long ammunition clips for civilians especially guns like the Glock 9mm with long ammo clips. The only people who should be allowed to own a semiautomatic handgun or rifle are law enforcement officials. Security guards can own a Smith and Wesson .357 magnum or a .38 caliber revolver for security work or perhaps a 12 guage pump shotgun. I am a former avid hunter and a 20 year combat veteran now retired from active duty. I have been around firearms all of my life since childhood. If you want to defend your home get a .38 revolver and a double barrel 12 guage shotgun preferably a shorter but legal "coach gun" then practice with them. The reason for the revolver and the double barrel shotgun is that they are mechanical and will almost never fail to fire. Research from police files say that most home defense situations will end with only a couple of shots fired then one or both parties are dead or permanently wounded. The semiautomatic does not make any difference at all but what matters is how accurately the shooter puts the first round on the intended target. Semiautomatics are really worthless unless you practice with them regularly. They tend to jam and fail to fire unless you are good with them. Semiautomatics also require regular maintenance or else they will jam. A revolver can sit in a drawer for years and still fire. Most of us are amateurs with firearms. Shooting is a perishable skill. Special Forces trainers in the Army regularly shoot many thousands of rounds every year just to maintain proficiency with semiautomatic pistols. They also spend hours cleaning and maintaining them. Most civilians are too busy working to take the time to properly maintain semiautomatics anyway. Hunters need a bolt action rifle with a scope or an over under double barrel 12 gauge shotgun. Again the idea as a sportsman is to make a clean kill using one shot rather than putting lead into the air. Clean kills also give you better quality of meat. A wounded deer that runs for miles will produce good dog food rather than good venison for dinner.

Bottom line up front: Semiautomatic weapons with long ammo clips are weapons of war used to slaughter human beings in a combat zone. American gun laws are very stupid. All that a civilian will ever need is a revolver, a shotgun, or a bolt action rifle. These alone can cause plenty of human tragedy. Anyone that claims they need to own a semiautomatic pistol or AK-47, or an AR-15/M-16 type firearm with a 30 round ammo clip to protect their home is an idiot. The NRA is an organization lead by idiots and followed by right wing morons and sociopaths. Nearly all of these mass shootings are caused by semiautomatic pistols with 20 or 30 round ammo clips. The NRA is an organization that condones legalized mass murder. The NRA is an organization that helps kill more Americans every year than Osama Bin Laden killed on 9-11. Semiautomatic pistols and rifles with huge ammo clips should be banned. Australia and Canada have done so. England has no semiautomatic firearms or handguns and there murder rate is negligible when compared to America's. Look up the numbers you right wingers. England is a much safer place to live than America. I know I lived there for 3 years while on active duty. I could walk in London anywhere at 2:00 AM with my wife and feel safe. Can we do that here in Los Angeles or New York's Central Park? As long as we manufacture semiautomatic firearms with long ammo clips the undertakers in America will do a brisk business and our country will remain a moral cesspool to live in as needless human tragedies repeat themselves continuously. Our politicians do not have the balls to do the right thing and ban all semiautomatics forever. Our politicians are moral cowards when anyone mentions the NRA they cower like a puppy left out in the rain. Osama bin Laden is a murder and terrorist and so is the NRA.

[myrights]

20 things to do with a handgun.

1. Take your kids and their cousins for a fun day of target practice shooting at human silhouettes.
2. Strap it on and go to your neighbor's house to settle neighborhood disagreements. (Excellent way to peacefully end neighborhood disputes, especially if you periodically display the used silhouettes from # 1 in the driveway or on your garage door).
3. Climb on a chair and get it off the top shelf of the closet and show it to your friends whenever your parents leave you alone for a few minutes. (personal favorite)
4. Shoot it at the front door when your parents aren't home to see what will happen. (A childhood friend who fortunately missed his twin sister by at least 3 minutes.)
5. Hide it and take it to school and show your friends.
6. Hide it and take it to school and shoot the other kids.
7. Shoot your parents.
8. Shoot your spouse.
9. Shoot your kids.
10. Shoot yourself.
11. Shoot your coworkers.
12. Shoot your former coworkers.
13. Shoot strangers.
14. Shoot your other family members.
15. Shoot your friends.
16. Shoot your former friends.
17. Shoot intruders or potential intruders.
18. Get shot by an intruder with your own gun.
19. Shoot other gunmen.
20. And the number 20 recommendation. . . . melt it down, sell it as scrap metal and repeat to yourself. . . Thou shalt not kill. Period.

[TryTakingMyMoney]

Listen up America! Do you really believe in gun control? If so, would you be willing to stand behind what you believe and post a sign in your yard saying: "ATTENTION ALL CRIMINALS! WE BELIEVE IN GUN CONTROL! WE OWN NO FIREARMS!" Think gun controls a good idea? Think again!

[notfooldd]

An EXCELLENT EXAMPLE BELOW.....
----------------------------------

Tuesday, March 24, 2009

According to Miami police, a gunman wearing a ski mask entered the Burger King at Northeast 54th Street and Biscayne Boulevard at about 4 p.m. and tried to rob it.

Jeff Giordano of the Miami Police Department said a Good Samaritan with a concealed weapons permit confronted the robber. They exchanged gunfire. The would-be robber was pronounced dead at the scene.

-------------------------

DO NOT BE A VICTIM!

TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN SECURITY AND...

...GET A CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT TODAY!

What a great idea to let the CCLs take care of law and order in this country. Think of the money and lives we could save if we just got rid of our police force, judical court system, and prisons. We could have the CCLers take care of all of it at once. No more wasting time with arrests, going to court, or taking up jail space. Just see a crime..Bam. done. To think of all the years we wasted thinking "innocent until proven guilty". Try to tell us how the tragedy at VT could have never have happened with a CCL. It seems a real Good Samaritan tried to stop this but the system let us down.

[oldpoet-2009]

Here's a sign: he owned a gun.

Crazy follows.
Posted by jumkey at 8:03 PM : Apr 7, 2009
--------------
Excuse me?

What? It's ok to send a young soldier to foreign lands with a rifle to kill someone, but it's not ok for someone here in our own country to own a firearm to protect themself? What hogwash.

The police certainly don't protect anyone, they simply show up after a crime is committed and try to solve it, which they aren't very good at either. I'll keep my legally purchased firearm and my legally obtained concealed weapon carry permit and protect myself when necessary. You don't want to? That's fine and it's your right. But it's MY right to to exercise my 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

And just remember, as soon as you start taking away 1 of my constitutional rights, what's next? No more free speech? No more right to free expression? No more free assembly? No more freedom of religion? Reinstitution of Slavery? No more women's suffrage? You think not? Who decides? The president? Congress? You? THAT is why we HAVE a constitution.

[oldpoet-2009]

'Law Abiding Gun Owners" cause a lot of carnage in this country! Especially, those that value their guns over lives. In my opinion, you are just a bunch of Pu$$ie$!
Posted by MarkS77177 at 7:00 PM : Apr 7, 2009
----------
Not only are you a bozo for using offensive language in your posts, but you know nothing about firearms. Had Cho honestly answered the questions that are required on the federal form to buy firearms he would NEVER have been sold the firearms. Because Virginia refuses to contribute mental health data to the federal database he got away with falsifying information on the form, a FELONY, but the media does not with to talk about that. The university and the police failed to follow up PROPERLY on Professor Roy's concerns, which she voiced repeatedly. The ENTIRE system failed, NOT the "legal" firearms owners. IF the state allowed concealed weapons permit holders to carry their "legal" firearm, perhaps one of them would have stopped Cho before he could get started.

[jumkey]

Here's a sign: he owned a gun.

Crazy follows.

[smendicino]

Good story. I read our mental health system scored a D.
A good psychologist with enough time can tell what is wrong. The problem is that most schools don't put in the time, and don't have enough qualified people. According to another article this boy as a child was dianosed with anxiety disorder and depression. I believe that 20% of school children suffer from mental illness. 40% of Bi-polar children are missed diagnosed. As this boy grew, his doctor could have found that he had a different illness such as Bi-polar or schizophrenia. There is Bi-polar I and Bi-polar II.

Even with healthcare, a psychologist cost a lot of money. How much time did they spent on this boy.
I agree that guns do not kill people.
I firmly believe that our children are endangered because of lack of funds for mental healthcare. I also agree that schools should ask parents for help. The parents should be called if their is a problem. The parents could have told the school that he suffered from mental illness. I don't think any baby comes out wishing to be depressed or to kill. I believe babies come out wanting love and understanding. This mentally ill child fell through the crack and was ignored.
I really feel sorry for all the parents who lost their children that day. Again, good story and never let us forget what was lost that day.