Will Bad Economy Lead To A New Outlook?

CBS Evening News: Some Believe Recession Will Cause Americans To Reassess Their Values

(CBS)  Spring may be here, but everywhere are signs that this is the winter of our economic discontent.

"What I'm learning is not to spend, spend, spend, you kind of need to save a little,” one woman from Atlanta told CBS News correspondent Jeff Greenfield.

But more than that, there’s a sense that the lean times will not ease anytime soon.

"Our children are going to be stuck with this bill for years and years and years to come,” surmised one man.

If that's true, it will surely define this era, and change those who will live through it. But how? And might it even change us for the better?

The Great Depression lasted for more than a decade. Most Americans who lived through it felt firsthand the reality - or threat of - real suffering. Historian Morris Dickstein said it made some values supreme.

"Security, caution, stability,” he said. “Civil service jobs, low paying, but steady - that was very important to the Depression generation."

And they took their values with them through the rest of their lives - for instance, embracing the post-war comforts of suburban life and consumer pleasures.

“They were reacting to all the depredation that they had experienced, or that their parents had experienced," Dickstein said.

Today's generation didn't stand on breadlines - they stood on line to buy iPhones, spent half a billion a year on ringtones. We have just passed through a time when those at the top earned kings' ransoms, when credit cards and the housing bubble led millions to acquire as if there were no tomorrow.

“We have been through a 26-year-long cycle or so that is all about individual ambition, individual getting, individual spending," said author and essayist Kurt Anderson.

Anderson argues in Time this week that the end of the age of excess may prove the proverbial blessing in disguise. For instance, he says, even when conditions get better, we'll ask ourselves, "Do I really need the fifth television, the third car, the slightly cooler laptop computer?"

More significantly, the next generation may choose radically different career paths.

“In terms of what will make them happy rather than be seduced by what looks like the easy road to wealth, " Anderson said.

We could, of course, emerge from these times a less confident, more cautious people, without the traditional American belief that things will always be better tomorrow. What we do know is that the conditions that surround us when we're young never really leave us. And this generation will carry with them conditions unlike any we have seen in a very, very long time.

[prohb]

As POGO said - "We have met the enemy, and he is us." It is ludicrous to point fingers and blame at this point at the past and the present president. It was spending money we didn't have that was promoted by money lenders with imaginary money they didn't have. It was inevitable this house af cards would tumble some day. As to how we get out of this mess, I stand by my original post on this article: WE MUST BECOME A RESILIENT PEOPLE! Let's pull up our bootstraps and get to work.

[sndkzyaa]

Suck it up pal, the Reagan Revolution is dead and who was the straw that broke the camels back, Clinton.
Posted by curse914 at 8:51 PM : Mar 28, 2009

OK, then it sounds like your point is that you're glad the "Reagan Revolution" is over, and you're amused that Clinton is the one who ended it by wrecking our economy when he "adopted" Reagan's ideas that you find so flawed.

So, faced with the biggest economic crisis since the Depression, all you want to do is spew hate for an economic idea from 20 years ago that you disagreed with. And you feel joy that our economy was destroyed by a member of the opposite political party, because you enjoy the irony of the way your hate was fulfilled.

I'm starting to understand why you post don't make any sense. You're driven purely by hate.

Why do you hate the USA so much?

And in case anybody is confused, I find your point totally illogical, and I don't agree with any part of what you said.

[luke_4u]

I think what they say in the article is mostly correct. But not completely, with some, as soon as things get a little better they'll just go right back to their old ways. You know, easy come easy go. We all need to hang onto our money better, and not buy everything we see. Buy the things you really "need", and very little of the junk that you just "want". And we need to get away from the idea of greed and getting something for nothing, as the Madoff investors did. Now that it's over, everyone should be able to see how much better off those people would be, if they would have just hung onto their money. There's an old saying, a fool and his money are soon parted. It's true, so don't waste or gamble away your money, hang onto as much of it as you can. Rainy day, and all that.

[2catnight]

I certainly hope it leads to a new outlook...especially for all you pessimists who just sit there and spew hate and discontent. If this doesn't change some lives, nothing will.

[harpoot]

Change outlook?? No way. Most of the population are as dumb as a post and go back to their old ways as soon as things improve a bit. Just like they did as soon as gas prices came back down. A nation of obese cretins.

[gce651]

New outlook? Rememebr the movie Groundhog Day? "You want a forcast? I'll give you a forecast. It's gonna be cold and grey and it's gonna last you the rest of your life!"

[philabias]

i cant help but to laugh at those who think we won because i sure dont
I would have been happy to bomb them day and night until the only way in or out of iraq
is on a camel. destroy everything and let them clean up the mess there own selves. just like gaza. they show me pictures of dead children, but i seem to remember the same children dressed as suicide bombers. I guess the only thing they are upset about is that they got killed befor they got to be martyrs.....nice!

[philabias]

no it wont chage anything or anybody.Americans arent smart enough anymore to see whats happening. I guess it goes to show that adding sodium floride to the water sure does stupify the population. and they still think it stops tooth decay. WAKE AMERCA FLORIDOSES DESTROYS TEETH. HINT prozac is made from a floride compound..............think it over then do some research ( YOU KNOW READ )

[curse914]

So before you start blasting away, first please clarify what you meant to say by identifying deregulation as a purely GOP idea (which is total nonsense anyway, but be that as it may...).

Posted by sndkzyaa at 6:00 PM : Mar 28, 2009

You are the one tap dancing. Suck it up pal, the Reagan Revolution is dead and who was the straw that broke the camels back, Clinton. It is as ironic as Carter and Clinton being more fiscally conservative than Reagan, Bush I and Bush II.

I do not have Party affiliation. This is a Class struggle, and partisan hacks, such as yourself serve only as foils.

"Utah Republican Party State Party Platform
(as ratified at the 2004 State Convention)

REGULATION
We recognize that government regulation can be a major impediment to productivity and to competition. We must rely more on market forces and less on government. Regulatory power now exercised by the federal government must be eliminated or returned to state and local governments."

"In the United States, the Old Right was a faction of American conservatism that opposed both New Deal domestic programs and also the entry of the U.S. into World War II. Many members of this faction were associated with the Republicans of the interwar years led by Robert Taft, but some were Democrats. They were called the "Old Right" to distinguish them from their anti-communist New Right successors, such as Barry Goldwater, who were interventionist in foreign policy, although a great majority of Old Right intellectuals were passionately opposed to communism and socialism. Many members of the Old Right were laissez-faire classical liberals, some were business-oriented conservatives like Herbert Hoover; others were ex-radicals who moved sharply to the right, like John Dos Passos; others, like the Southern Agrarians, dreamed of restoring a premodern communal society."

[mecanik-2009]

Yes it has, I'm out looking for a new job.

[billpl-2009]

"And it's me I'll work the mill just as long as I am able
But may I never meet the man whose name is on the label

And it's me and my machine
For the rest of the morning
The rest of the afternoon gone
For the rest of my life "
- Mill Worker
- James Taylor
Posted by veteran71

(More Like)

My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT.
I may make you feel but I can't make you think.
Your sperm's in the gutter -- your love's in the sink.
So you ride yourselves over the fields and
You make all your animal deals and
Your wise men don't know how it feels to be....
Thick as a brick.

--Ian Anderson

[cattiej]

Bad economy just means that we are going into another Depression. One that wil make 1929-1930 look like a church picnic. Obama said it was going to get worse before it gets better,,,he was speaking of the next 4 years, it's going to get worse. The Military Draft will be started again, so be sure your son registers for the draft.

[sndkzyaa]

What does Madoff have to do with the current economic condition of our country?

And how was the Clinton administration supposed to catch the "cooked books" at Arthur Anderson and Enron, when the "cooking of the books" was designed to prevent investigation from the governmental authorities?
Posted by hungry1968-15 at 5:54 PM : Mar 28, 2009

LOL! You love to throw the wild pitch.

You can't see any economic harm in one man being able to steal $50 billion???

You can't see any red flag in the regulatory system when he gets reported, and the report is ignored?

You obviously aren't very sophisticated about how the modern financial system works. It works based on trust. It has for centuries. If you study past economic failures, at their core it was a crisis of trust. People stopped trusting financial institutions, and they panicked and took out all their money at once. That caused a collapse because financial systems are built around typical behavior of depositors and investors. When atypical behavior occurs, as in a crisis of trust, the institution suffers a catastrophic faillure.

And you'd have to be totally naiive to think nobody knew about the rampant accounting fraud that was so widespread across the entire country. Everybody in the accounting industry knew it was going on. There's no doubt that it was reported to the Clinton administration.

But just like the report of Madoff - it got ignored.

And the same thing happened to the 9/11 pilots. The FBI sent undercover agents to check reports of suspicious activity at flying schools. But they found nothing.

The Clinton administration was characterized by a consistent pattern of non-enforcement.

That can't happen by accident.

[sndkzyaa]

I am letting you know that the ideology that put us into this situation has been at the core of the GOP since its inception; 100 years.
Posted by curse914 at 4:29 PM : Mar 28, 2009

Yah, yah, I heard. And what I'm trying to figure out is: what's your point?

Stop tap dancing around with your innuendo and sly winks. Say it out plain. What do you mean to say by it?

Because it sounds to me like you want to defend Clinton by blaming the source of ideas that he chose to adopt.

Then you did it again on the WMD issue.

It doesn't matter who wrote the book. It matters who read it, and then who CHOSE to adopt the ideas that were presesnted.

There are thousands of books presenting thousands of different opinions. Clinton had to choose which book to believe. Clinton had to form his own opinions and draw his own conclusions.

The fact is, Clinton decided what conclusions he drew. So he is responsible for the outcome.

If Clinton adopted Reagan's idea, then Clinton is to blame if it turned out wrong.

If Clinton adopted the ideas in some book, then Clinton is to blame for believing there were WMD when there was no actual evidence of WMD to support the theories presented in the book.

So why do you blame Bush for ideas Clinton wrongly adopted from some bogus book about WMD in Iraq? We now know the book was bogus, because no WMD were found.

How is that Bush's fault if it isn't also Clinton's fault?

Once again, I'm just taking blind guesses at your meaning, because you refuse to say clearly what your meaning is.

So before you start blasting away, first please clarify what you meant to say by identifying deregulation as a purely GOP idea (which is total nonsense anyway, but be that as it may...).

[hungry1968-15]

All I'm saying is, why is everyone so determined to overlook the faillure of the Clinton administration when Madoff was served up on a sliver platter to them in 2000.

And it's also telling that Madoff fits the consistent pattern of non-enforcement that has emerged as a salient characteristic of the Clinton administration.

When you consider all the other financial fraud that was going on - Enron, Worldcomm, Andersen Accounting - it is truly amazing that not even one got caught in all that time.

It appears that Madoff was the great grandaddy of all the scams of the Clinton years.

Just imagine how it would feel if you were the one who reported the biggest financial scam in history, with mathematical proof and all, and you walked into the office of the government agency that is specifically responsible for regulating this sepecific activity - and they just ignore you.

That is just such a huge failure of a regulatory system, and it's totally inexcusable.

Bush - he's just a moron, what do you expect. There's plenty of people calling him what he is.

But it really irritates me to hear people still talking about Clinton like he was so great.

Call it just another chip out of his super-thick coat of Teflon. But someday people will see Clinton for the dirty crook he is.
Posted by sndkzyaa at 5:45 PM : Mar 28, 2009






What does Madoff have to do with the current economic condition of our country?

And how was the Clinton administration supposed to catch the "cooked books" at Arthur Anderson and Enron, when the "cooking of the books" was designed to prevent investigation from the governmental authorities?

[sndkzyaa]

There should be a heavy inheritance tax as a way to combat the concentration of wealth that inevitably occurs in a private property based economic system. If the rich don't want to give their money to the government, then they can give it to charities instead.
Posted by ontheleft at 4:51 PM : Mar 28, 2009

In case you hadn't heard - Congress just passed legislation to freeze the inheritance tax system where it is. A $3.5 million exemption per individual, with a maximum 45% tax rate for anything above that.

The inheritance tax will not be eliminated in 2010 as legislated by the Bush admin. And it will not revert back to the "old" system (whatever that was) in 2011 either.

It will just stay where it is this year, for the indefinite future. Which means, until the next time Congress decides to change it.

This legislation was passed without fanfare or mainstream news coverage. I saw it in the financial news on Friday.

[sndkzyaa]

Someone missed a fire starting, and you want to excuse the one who missed the whole house being on fire.

How does that make sense?
Posted by slownewsday02 at 4:19 PM : Mar 28, 2009

If you've ever actually worked as a firefighter, you'd realize what a silly question that is.

Of course, the best time to fight a fire is when it's still small. If you wait until the whole house is engulfed in flames, it's too late.

But that's not the point.

All I'm saying is, why is everyone so determined to overlook the faillure of the Clinton administration when Madoff was served up on a sliver platter to them in 2000.

And it's also telling that Madoff fits the consistent pattern of non-enforcement that has emerged as a salient characteristic of the Clinton administration.

When you consider all the other financial fraud that was going on - Enron, Worldcomm, Andersen Accounting - it is truly amazing that not even one got caught in all that time.

It appears that Madoff was the great grandaddy of all the scams of the Clinton years.

Just imagine how it would feel if you were the one who reported the biggest financial scam in history, with mathematical proof and all, and you walked into the office of the government agency that is specifically responsible for regulating this sepecific activity - and they just ignore you.

That is just such a huge failure of a regulatory system, and it's totally inexcusable.

Bush - he's just a moron, what do you expect. There's plenty of people calling him what he is.

But it really irritates me to hear people still talking about Clinton like he was so great.

Call it just another chip out of his super-thick coat of Teflon. But someday people will see Clinton for the dirty crook he is.

[hungry1968-15]

Are you upset that we won the war in Iraq ? I mean all these years, you have been railing against the war, it must kill you that we won, that the operation is wrapping up, and America is victorious, despite the loss of life.

I guess you're party's attempts to undermine the war and hope we lose, so they can get elected worked in some respects, it got your party elected, but failed to cause America to lose the war.......Mission Accomplished.....friendly government in place, terrorists gone, Iraq back to normal.....sorry, you lost
Posted by Joe-NY-4 at 3:53 PM : Mar 28, 2009





We "won"?

What exactly did we accomplish with this great military victory?

Better yet, define "victory" as it pertains to Iraq for me.

[ubrew12]

ontheleft said: "There should be a heavy inheritance tax as a way to combat the concentration of wealth that inevitably occurs in a private property based economic system. If the rich don't want to give their money to the government, then they can give it to charities instead. "

Agreed. We should return to the progressive taxation America had between 1930 and 1980, when we were the greatest nation on earth and paid our bills. The Gates family has said repeatedly that they think the taxes they're paying are outrageously low. I disagree about Spears. There's a tendency to think that because some people are talented, they are worth millions of dollars. Fine. But tax them appropriately. The analogy I like to use is this: would you go to a football game if the teams got to keep their points between games? They even the playing field because it increases the competition. What makes capitalism great is competition, not 'private ownership'. A bunch of landed gentry sipping long island ice-teas and tut-tutting about the gardeners is not a vibrant capitalism.

[ontheleft]

' But, you know, thats OK by me cuz Bill Gates and Britney Spears are worth it (/sarcasm).'
Posted by ubrew12 at 4:36 PM

I'd actually defend the wealth of Britney Spears and other music stars since they derive their wealth from fans willingly parting with their money. But Bill Gates? He got his money from a well run monopoly. The bright side is he's giving most of it to charity. It doesn't always work that way however.

There should be a heavy inheritance tax as a way to combat the concentration of wealth that inevitably occurs in a private property based economic system. If the rich don't want to give their money to the government, then they can give it to charities instead.