Pastor's Wife Forgives Accused Gunman

Tells Julie Chen On "The Early Show" She Doesn't Even Hold Any "Hard Feelings" Against Alleged Murderer

(CBS)  Last Sunday, a gunman walked into the First Baptist Church in Maryville, Ill., near St. Louis, and opened fire, killing pastor Fred Winters. Two congregants were injured as they wrestled him to the ground.

The alleged gunman, Terry Sedlacek, has pleaded not guilty to murder charges.

Now, the pastor's wife says she's praying for Sedlacek.

In an exclusive interview with Early Show co-anchor Julie Chen from inside the church Monday, Cindy Winters said she doesn't even hold any "hard feelings" against Sedlacek.

"I do not have any hatred, or even hard feelings towards him," she told Chen. "We have been praying for him. One of the first things that my daughter said to me after this happened was, 'You know, I hope that he comes to learn to love Jesus through all of this.' We are not angry at all, and we really firmly believe that he can find hope and forgiveness and peace through this, by coming to know Jesus. And we hope that that happens for him."

Asked what she hopes the criminal justice system does with Sedlacek, Winters replied, "I don't have any speculation or any idea about that. But I do hope that he finds peace with God. I hope that he comes to understand that God loves him in spite of his sins and that he can have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ."

[darcygrant32]

Tanana wrote [responding to someone else]: You are obviously a non-believer, so you would never understand that once you become a true born again believer, you forgive as Jesus forgives you. A true believer has a changed heart that the world will never understand unless they become one also.

Tanana, unfortunately "true believers" are not always forgiving and kind. As a matter of fact, a lot of "true believers" are just the opposite. Think of John Calvin and Martin Luther, "true believers" who burned "heretics" at the stake.

Religion people frequently use their religion as a justification for very vile, very hateful behavior. Other religious people use their religion as an "excuse" to treat people with love and kindness, as this family seems to be doing.

One day, you will come to understand that there are kind and loving Christians and there are hateful, abusive Christians. Most Christians can be both (kind and loving in some moment and hateful and abusive in other circumstances.) By the same token, there are kind and loving non-Christians, and there are hateful, abusive non-Christians. And again, there are non-Christians who are kind and loving in some circumstances and hateful and abusive in other circumstances.

In the case of Pastor Winter's wife and children, it seems to me that they are kind, loving, decent people who would be just as kind loving, and decent if they were Buddhists, or Muslims, or agnostics, or atheists. I don't buy it that a person's religion is what dictates that person's character. Rather, I would suggest that a kind and loving person will be kind and loving IN SPITE OF his or her religion or IN SPITE OF his or her lack of religion.

[darcygrant32]

rrozsa wrote: "Maybe she needs to add totall1814 to her prayer list. "

You see, rrozsa, what you and Christians like you don't understand is that you, too often, use the words, "I'll pray for you," as a passive-aggressive insult.

Whenever a Christian flings those words at me (in the manner you just demonstrated), I suggest to the person that his or her prayers are worthless. And in this case, sad as it is, the prayers of Christians who prayed for the safety and well-being of this pastor were prayers that seemed to fall on deaf ears.

I don't mind that people pray. I don't even mind when people say they'll pray for me. I think it's nice when people say that and mean it in a way that is intended to be loving. However, when the words "I'll pray for you" are used as a weapon---then pointing out the worthlessness/ineffectiveness of prayer in that person's life seems to be appropriate.

[darcygrant32]

Kawilik wrote: "It is not necessary to believe in jesus in order to forgive others. Other faiths have taught forgiveness centuries before the advent of christianity -- even without a "personal relationship with jesus or god" -- WoW! "

Well said, Kawilik, and I agree. I am not a Christian. Forgiveness means to abandon hatred and hostility toward the person who wronged you. What's great about it is that you can forgive a person regardless of the person's attitude. Even if the wrongdoer is not sorry and does not want your forgiveness, forgivness is a wise choice because it allows the person who was wronged to have control over his or her own happiness. Hatred and hostility toward the perpetrator, while absolutely understandable in many situations--and certainly in this one, gives the perpetrator or wrongdoer a certain amount of control over the victim's happiness. For that reason alone, forgiveness is a choice that makes a lot of sense regardless of one's religious beliefs (or lack thereof.) The choice to forgive is not really a reflection of a person's "goodness" or "relationship with God." (At least not in my opinion.) Rather, choosing forgiveness instead of hatred is a reflection of a person's determination not to live as a victim and not to allow the perpetrator any further control over his or her life.

[darcygrant32]

This is is such a sad story. I think it's wonderful that the pastor's wife and children are saying that they have no anger or hatred toward Terry Sedlacek and that they forgive him. I am not a Christian, but I do think that forgiveness is something we do for OURSELVES and not for the other person. If they can maintain an attitude of forgiveness toward this man, then I think it will speed their healing.

Having said that, I know from personal experience that grief is not a simple process. A grieving person goes through many different stages. Right now, I think that this woman and her children are in shock. Possibly in denial. That is not to minimize their forgiving attitude in any way. I just think that they are also going to have to "forgive themselves" in a sense when they go through other stages as well. At one point, one or all of them will, more than likely, feel a great deal of anger toward the man who killed their husband and their father. One or all of them will go through a temporary or permanent faith crisis. One or all of them may decide that they do not forgive Terry Sedlacek for what he did, and that, too, is understandable. Eventually, they will settle on an attitude they can adopt that will help them to heal and to go on with their lives. The attitude they have right now, however, may not be the attitude they have in the end.

As far as Terry Sedlacek--I don't know what I think should happen to him. If he really is mentally ill, to the point that he was unable to understand that what he did was wrong,, then I think that he should receive treatment and incarceration in a mental hospital of some kind (so that he cannot kill or hurt anyone else.)

It is odd that police have not yet mentioned a motive. I don't think he was having a gay relationship with the pastor, as others have suggested. However, I do wonder if he had some kind of previous relationship with the pastor or with the church. Did he feel wronged in some way by the pastor's or the church's behavior toward him? If that turns out to be the case, it won't excuse his behavior in any way. However, I think it would at least help to shed some light on the situation.

If there was absolutely no motive in the case--if he had no previous connection with the pastor or the church---and his behavior was completely random, then I'm even more inclined to think that he is mentally ill and that his mental illness will have to be considered when this case goes to trial.

I feel terrible for Pastor Winters' family and also for his congregation. But I also feel badly for the family of Terry Sedlacek. This is a nightmare for everyone involved. How very, very sad.

[baileymalloy]

It saddens me to read through some of these comments...particularly when it involves giving up on being a christian because of extreme practices in a church. I have been a christian all my life and I have never felt confined at all by how our church teaches God's word. I dress normally, wear slacks to church (jeans on Sunday evenings), wear makeup, etc. As a matter of fact, I feel an infinite freedom in my relationship with Christ. Anyone can choose to make the bible fit their individual beliefs and I know there are a lot of pastor's standing in a pulpit on Sunday morning over-writing the bible. I don't know personally what this pastor's wife is feeling. If she can forgive this quickly, then she is a better person than I am. I think anyone can choose to forgive and mean it, but I don't know that you could ever truly forget. Being a christian continues to be a daily struggle but I really do look for the good in everything and everyone and most times I find it, but make no mistake I recognize the worst when I see it and with Christ's help I can get through it.

[cl-mom]

My husband was murdered when I was pregnant with our son. I don't think I'm a bad person because i hate the low life who did this to him. I believe in God but my faith was tested and continues to be tested. i can not imagine being like this woman and a week after my husband is murdered, go on national television with a smile and say I don't have any hard feelings against the killer. This doesn't make her a good christian...it makes her almost psycho. Either she's in shock or crazy. God help her when the shock wears off and the grief really hits. i can tell you from experience that it is hell to lose someone to violence and then sit through a trial and have to look at the scum and try to control your anger. Although with her she'll probably go up and hug him. God gave us the ability to feel and it's OK to feel anger! We don't always have to be forgiving! It's ok to be angry with someone who took away the love of your life and your children's father. Who ever said that anger is a sin? Especially when the anger is understandable? I pray for this lady once the grief comes...

[mwafrika]

...you too Jymac! response to tootall is for you too.

[mwafrika]

To Tootall1014, since I know you will be back to look at this. While I would love to tell you personally, I have to write here. My father was killed in much the same way as Pastor Fred..impact directly to the heart, while I have the capacity to to be a vengeful hateful person, as it sounds like you may too from your words, I forgave the killer even before i met him, before my beloved dad was buried, and THAT, I can assure you was a gift of God because I could not have done that on my own. It has been 15 years and never once have I "reconsidered" my forgiveness. Once again, I invite you to meet the people of that church,even cindy, and watch them for as many years as it takes to willingly admit that the venomous statements you have made here are unfounded and uncalled for. One more thing, whatever hurt you have experienced that drives you to speak hurtfully towards others..I prayyou experience healing. And this is not regurgitated nonsense, this is TRUTH.

[rlratcliff63]

What is wrong with you people? You are attacking an innocent woman and her dead husband . You don't know anything about them and yet because they claim to be christians you want to think the worst. Shame on you! I think we all need to do a little soul searching before we hand out the criticizm.

[ravincraven]

By all accounts, the shooter had tertiary Lyme disease. He had spyrochetes rampaging through his brain. Now, what does this have to do with accepting Jesus Christ as a personal savior? A truly wise person would pray for science to cure terrible diseases such as the one witrh plagues this poor damaged individual.

Of course, the pastor's wife just lost her husband. Anyone could forgive her for not thinking clearly, but not for being ignorant.

[MalloryDavis]

I would be totally forgiving of the killer if there was life insurance. Hmmm yup....If someone had just given me the chance..

[MalloryDavis]

Maybe it's easier to forgive the perpetrator if there's life insurance involved. That would've certainly caused my grief to wane.

[MalloryDavis]

I was married to a preacher. It was one of the most horrible experiences of my life. I have been close to death a couple of times because of stupidity and in a very abusive relationship and still I prefer my ex-con exboyfriend to any christian any day for the rest of my life.

My grandfather was a preacher in RioDell California. The confining lifestyle of christians is unbearable. Their meanness is unbearable.....I found that I became like them because of culture and left. Won't go back....

[jymac]

Keep in mine the jury is still out on this man, what if it turns out they had a gay affair like the many other Christian pastors? We don't know why he did it. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that killing the pastor was justified in any shape form or fashion. The guy killed and he should pay the price.

[jymac]

I seriously hate what religion has done to this world. Wars, witch hunts, segregation Christians praying in the background while slaves were beaten and tortured....not to mention greed and extreme radical belief. You people are seriously sick. you won't even pay attention to the fact that you are a product of your environment. Example where you are born and depending on what family your born in you are trained from a child and given the belief you have. If you were born in a remote African jungle and taught that a tree is God you would defend it to the death like idiots. Your only answer to everything you know is a published book thrown together and edited by man. If that is the basis of your faith then I feel very sad for you all.

[mwafrika]

To tootall1014, It sounds like no amount of discussion could help you truly visualize the type of person Pastor Fred was or Cindy is..maybe you could take a few minutes to look at their church's website to see what kind of REAL memories people have of him, or go visit their church and meet Cindy or folks who knew them both. The truth can stand a critics test. Imagine if someone unconditionally forgave you for ....? I bet you would experience love and acceptance. Welcome! :)

[iisgenius-2009]

This is the kind of Christian that I came to know when I was growing up, unlike the pseudo-christians who are filled with hate, vengeance, and anger. I am a San Francisco Liberal and I denounce the left wing lunatics who ridicule Christians and/or their beliefs; the same way I denounce the ultra right wing self-righteous hypocritical rabid pseudo-lunatic-self-proclaimed-christians.

This woman's beliefs represent the true essence of Christianity. It is unfortunate that the rabid, violent, hypocritical right wing wackos are giving the true christians a bad name.

[kawilik]

It is not necessary to believe in jesus in order to forgive others. Other faiths have taught forgiveness centuries before the advent of christianity -- even without a "personal relationship with jesus or god" -- WoW!

[armbandman]

Wow. That was quite a rant there, tootall1014. Bravo.

Please don't use this discussion to rail against pastors. We all know or have heard of one pastor or another who received an unnecessarily extravagant gift or spent more time making money than ministering.

Pastor Fred was not that guy.

As such, this is not the forum for such hateful speech. I'm not sure where to find an appropriate forum for it, but I'm sure there is one somewhere on the internet.

babooph - How so? That's a very odd connection to draw...

[presjfk]

She is crazy, smiling through the interview, forgiving the murderer of her husband and father of her children. Sheer craziness.