Late-Night Stimulus Talks On Capitol Hill

Final Negotiations Commence After Senate Passes Bill; In Deference To GOP, Total Should Be Around $800 Billion, Dems Say

(CBS/AP)  Senate passage of an $838 billion stimulus bill triggered an intense round of late-night bargaining on Tuesday, with the White House and key congressional Democrats seeking agreement on a final compromise aimed at combating the worst economic crisis in decades.

Democratic lawmakers said that in deference to Senate Republican moderates, it appeared the bill that eventually goes to President Barack Obama would be in the range of $800 billion - less than the Senate measure or a different bill that cleared the House several days ago.

"That's in the ball park," Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., said of the $800 billion figure Tuesday night.

Baucus had said earlier that $35.5 billion to provide a $15,000 homebuyer tax credit, approved in the Senate last week, would be cut back. There was also pressure to reduce a Senate-passed tax break for new car buyers, according to Democratic officials, while a $40 billion reduction in aid to states appeared likely to stick.

A provision limiting compensation for top executives of companies receiving federal bailout assistance appeared likely to be dropped altogether because of an unanticipated $11 billion budget cost. The officials who disclosed details of the talks did so on condition of anonymity, saying they were not authorized to discuss them.

The White House weighed in strongly to try to resurrect funding for school construction eliminated during Senate dealmaking last week, a Democratic official said, but seemed resigned to limiting aid to the states for local school budgets to the $39 billion approved by the Senate on Tuesday by a 61-37 vote.

Differences have to be worked out but both bills include tax cuts for almost all working Americans, vast new spending on building new roads and bridges, investing in new energy projects and clean fuels, aid to financially strapped states and help for the unemployed including higher benefits and help in paying premiums to keep their health insurance, reports CBS News correspondent Bob Fuss.

The late-night negotiations reflected an urgency on the part of the White House and the Democratic-controlled Congress to move quickly against a recession that has sent joblessness soaring. The officials added that bargainers hoped for an agreement as early as Wednesday.

Earlier, the Senate sailed to approval of its $838 billion economic stimulus bill with only three Republicans in favor, Sens. Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania.

Within hours of the Senate vote, White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and other top aides to Obama had made the trip to the Capitol for series of meetings that stretched well into the evening.

Snowe, Collins and Specter are demanding that the final bill resemble the Senate measure, which devotes about 42 percent of its $838 billion in debt-financed costs to tax cuts, including Obama's signature $500 tax credit for 95 percent of workers, with $1,000 going to couples.

The $820 billion House measure is about one-third tax cuts.

The GOP moderates also want the final bill to retain a $70 billion Senate plan to "patch" the alternative minimum tax, or AMT, for one year. The provision would make sure 24 million families won't get socked with unexpected tax bills more than a year from now during the 2010 filing season.

The AMT was designed 40 years ago to make sure wealthy people pay at least some tax, but is updated for inflation each year to avoid tax increases averaging $2,300 a year. Fixing the annual problems now allows lawmakers to avoid difficult battles down the road, but economists say the move won't do much to lift the economy.

Obama and his Democratic allies go into final negotiations on the economic rescue package with limited ability to make it more to their liking after the moderate Republicans - with support from Democrats such as Ben Nelson of Nebraska - wrung savings totaling $108 billion in spending from the measure.

The Senate moderates are essential if the final plan is going to pass and get to Obama's desk, so they're playing hardball.

"My support for the conference report on the stimulus package will require that the Senate compromise bill come back virtually intact," Specter warned in a statement.

The Senate has a well-earned reputation for emerging the winner in most House-Senate negotiations, since its rules make passing bills more difficult and typically require bipartisan votes. Senators tell the House that it's difficult for them to pass anything that departs from carefully wrought agreements.

Hence the likelihood the final measure will greatly resemble the Senate bill.

"I think they've got a lot of influence on the outcome," said Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D. "It has to do with the simple reality of getting the votes to pass. And whether somebody likes it or doesn't like it, there's a thing called reality."

House leaders are tempering expectations that they'll restore many of the cuts.

"You cannot allow the perfect to be the enemy of the effective and of the necessary, and we will not," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said.

At the same time, Specter is fighting to preserve an enormous $10 billion increase for the National Institutes of Health, while Collins obtained $870 million for community health centers in talks last week.

Reid promised great progress during just the first 24 hours of talks, and the hope is to reach a deal quickly in order to get the plan to the White House within days.

The competing House and Senate plans have the same basic components designed to ease the worsening recession: hundreds of billions of dollars in government money to boost consumption and tax cuts designed to increase consumer spending and prod business investment.

Obama's allies recognize some of his priorities will be shaved. But they're not happy about the strong hand being played by the three Senate GOP moderates.

"It is so difficult talking with a body that is controlled by three people," said Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., a lead House negotiator. "You have no idea."

[rplat]

You''d better keep a very close eye on the health care provisions of the bill because "big brother" is about to take control of how you live and when you die.

[mwhc1]

If you out source all the high paying jobs... I dont think any stimulus bill is going to work. It will just make the top few % even richer. That''s how we got into this mess... the top few % have already made enough money by hiring people on the other side of the planet and paying them a box of rocks each day. The contractors living within the US save everything they make and take it back home with them. If there are no jobs here just what is this bill really going to stimulate?? i''ll tell you what, it''s going to stimulate some fat cats pockets. Time for a new senate and house - where I work, if we screwed things up this bad for the last 8 years... we would be gone (if not already out sourced!).

[endurorob]

ugly rob you want to fartt on the job while uncle lou dobbs give you those hand jobs....why are you such a slob.....you mad pakistani dog....lololololololololol


Posted by shazmichamps at 10:41 AM : Feb 11, 2009

I hear your goat harem calling from the pen out back. I think they need you to service them again.

[endurorob]

''''More of the same'''' will mean Obama needs another Trillion in 4 years - maybe even sooner!!!

Every President outspends the last two combined.

Obama is no exception, He''''s just doing it ASAP and all at once!!!


Posted by Deletedid at 10:30 AM : Feb 11, 2009

Try another tillion in six months.

[endurorob]

Posted by Minuteman-9 at 10:19 AM : Feb 11, 2009


Just curious and I am sure you have heard this before but is that the nickname your wife gave you?

[endurorob]

That would certainly seem to be the case on the surface but self described "think tanks" such as Heritage, CATO and AEI have been pushing the argument that tax cuts result in revenue growth for years.

Posted by jon_mccain at 09:56 AM : Feb 11, 2009

Don''t quote me on this but I believe the theory is, and I agree with it, that if you cut taxes, both business and income then you have people with more expendable income that they spend and the more they spend the more business increases so businesses need to hire more. With tax cuts for business that gives businesses more money to invest and when they invest and grow rheir business then they need to hire more people. The key here is that more people have jobs so more people can pay taxes so individual taxes can be lower and still bring in plenty of tax revenue. My theory on this is that the tax cuts need to be taargetd mostly to middle class and lower wage earners (I think $200K and below) and small businesses because the rich have a lot of money so they are going to spend no matter what and large corporations have a lot of money and will generally continue to invest. The only other thing I would say is to add tax incentive to businesses that keep manufacturing on shore.

[jon_mccain]

I don''''t know, but tax cuts do not pay for themselves. I may be wrong but tax cuts = less revenue

Posted by wvu74621

That would certainly seem to be the case on the surface but self described "think tanks" such as Heritage, CATO and AEI have been pushing the argument that tax cuts result in revenue growth for years.

[endurorob]

I see none of the libs out there want to defend their saviors pork filled bill and explain what is in it that is so crucial we pass it.


Posted by mccain08nc at 09:38 AM : Feb 11, 2009

Some try and are sincere in their efforts. Most just bring up Bush, McCain, Cheney, Limbaugh, or Hannety. Or they call you a nazi or racist. They believe that will shut you up.

Posted by endurorob at 09:41 AM : Feb 11, 2009

I almost forgot. Some also pull the old Bushie trick of calling you Un-American because you disagree with the president.

[endurorob]

I see none of the libs out there want to defend their saviors pork filled bill and explain what is in it that is so crucial we pass it.


Posted by mccain08nc at 09:38 AM : Feb 11, 2009

Some try and are sincere in their efforts. Most just bring up Bush, McCain, Cheney, Limbaugh, or Hannety. Or they call you a nazi or racist. They believe that will shut you up.

[endurorob]

"Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the US economy by spending your stimulus check wisely:

If you spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China .
If you spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.
If you purchase a computer it will go to India .
If you purchase fruit and vegetables it will go to Mexico , Honduras , and Guatemala (unless you buy organic).
If you buy a car it will go to Japan .
If you purchase useless *** it will go to Taiwan .


And none of it will help the American economy.

We need to keep that money here in America . You can keep the money in America by spending it at yard sales, going to a baseball game, or spend it on prostitutes, beer and wine (domestic ONLY), or tattoos, since those are the only businesses left in the US."


Posted by oleander8 at 09:25 AM : Feb 11, 2009

Actually a large part of the fruits and beggies we buy are grown in california. But on the other hand the criminal growers use criminal immigrants to harvest the stuff and they just send the money back south of the border soyou are correct. I will just put mine in the bank because I will need it to buy raman when the bill on all this comes due and taxes skyrocket.

[endurorob]

As I said Infrastructure is 5-10% of the bill and tax cuts are 40%. Where is the other 50% going? Does anyone know


Posted by mccain08nc at 09:22 AM : Feb 11, 2009

The other 50% is pork (not earmarks according to Obama and i don''t know what the difference is other than semantics) and according to one dem senetor yesterday we, the people, do not care that this thing is loaded with pork we just want them, the politicians, to spend the money.

[endurorob]

As I said Infrastructure is 5-10% of the bill and tax cuts are 40%. Where is the other 50% going? Does anyone know


Posted by mccain08nc at 09:22 AM : Feb 11, 2009

Saying tax cuts are 40% is somewhat deceitful. They are calling the "Tax Rebates"art of the tax cuts. Unfortunately a lot of the people elidgeable for rebates do not pay income tax. Yes they pay SS and Medicare but since the funding for these will not be cut, and the bill actually contains billions for Medicare, you really can''t call these tax cuts just handouts. People gotta quit listening to these politicians without doing fact checkson them.

[endurorob]

How do you propose that we pay for the republicans "national debt"?

Posted by hungry686 at 09:20 AM : Feb 11, 2009

It''s not the republicans national debt it is our national debt. If you cut all the pork out of our gonernmental spending and have limited tax cuts for the middle class I am sure we could cut spending. I an sure we have people in this country smart enough to figure it out it''s just that they are not politicians.

[oleander8]

"Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the US economy by spending your stimulus check wisely:

If you spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China .
If you spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.
If you purchase a computer it will go to India .
If you purchase fruit and vegetables it will go to Mexico , Honduras , and Guatemala (unless you buy organic).
If you buy a car it will go to Japan .
If you purchase useless *** it will go to Taiwan .


And none of it will help the American economy.

We need to keep that money here in America . You can keep the money in America by spending it at yard sales, going to a baseball game, or spend it on prostitutes, beer and wine (domestic ONLY), or tattoos, since those are the only businesses left in the US."

[wvu74621]

Hey endurorob I gotta go talk with you tomorrow.

[wvu74621]

How about cut government spending and cut taxes.


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Posted by endurorob at 09:14 AM : Feb 11, 2009
+ report abuse


I beleive that would work, but they would have to do away with the current stimulus package and write one that focuses on programs that create job growth which fuels economic growth. most of the spendin in this plan only fixes short term problema and Obama even admitted that. This plan will lead to future stimulus plans just like this one.

[endurorob]

I don''''t know, but tax cuts do not pay for themselves. I may be wrong but tax cuts = less revenue= inability to pay for the stiumulus package.

Posted by wvu74621 at 09:12 AM : Feb 11, 2009

How about cut government spending and cut taxes.

[wvu74621]

Whatever happened to the grand Republican claim that tax cuts pay for themselves?


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Posted by jon_mccain at 08:58 AM : Feb 11, 2009
+ report abuse

I don''t know, but tax cuts do not pay for themselves. I may be wrong but tax cuts = less revenue= inability to pay for the stiumulus package.

[jon_mccain]

Tax cuts for one thing. These tax cut will put money in consumers pockets who will purchase things, meaning that companies will hire more workers to produce these things and sell these things. Economics 101.

Posted by mt1233

Tax cuts....cut taxes now and raise them in the future when it will really hurt. This funds for this stimulus packet is''''nt falling out of the sky. It has to be paid for. Tax cuts sound nice now but wait 2-3 years and taxes will be through the roof all one step closer to socialism.

Posted by wvu74621

Whatever happened to the grand Republican claim that tax cuts pay for themselves?

[wvu74621]

Tax cuts for one thing. These tax cut will put money in consumers pockets who will purchase things, meaning that companies will hire more workers to produce these things and sell these things. Economics 101.

Posted by mt1233

Tax cuts....cut taxes now and raise them in the future when it will really hurt. This funds for this stimulus packet is''nt falling out of the sky. It has to be paid for. Tax cuts sound nice now but wait 2-3 years and taxes will be through the roof all one step closer to socialism.