Guantanamo Detainees In Limbo

Biden Says Prisoners Won't Be Released in U.S., But Uncertainty Colors Prospects For Closure ... or Justice

(CBS)  Andrew Arias is frustrated that the cases against the men allegedly responsible for his brother's death on September 11, 2001, are nowhere near a legal resolution.

"Let's just get it done, get it over with, and move on," Arias tells CBS News. "I'd like to see these guys in solitary confinement for the rest of their natural life."

Arias, a freight train engineer, was three years older than his kid brother Adam, who was a vice president of Eurobrokers, a bond brokerage on the 84th floor of the World Trade Center’s south tower, perilously above where the building was struck by the second al Qaeda-hijacked jet on September 11. Adam led an evacuation of his office right after the first hijacked plane had crashed into the north tower

"He got everybody out down to the ground floor and went back to assist firefighters," Arias said. Adam's body was recovered after the collapse near a number of fallen firefighters.

Last week, Andrew, his brother Don, and his sister Lorraine, traveled with a few other 9/11 family members on a military charter to the U.S. base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to witness the latest hearings of the special military commissions established by Congress and President Bush in 2006 to prosecute detainees.

Five of the detainees, including the alleged operational leader of 9/11, Khalid Shaiykh Mohammed, and his accused chief lieutenant in assisting the hijackers, Ramzi Binalshibh, appeared in a hearing ostensibly to evaluate Binalshibh’s mental competence.

"He said, 'I did 9/11 and I'm proud of it, and I did it for God,'” Arias said of Binalshibh. “They’re self-confessed murderers.”

When President Obama ordered the prison camp at Guantanamo closed within a year, he took a major symbolic step to reduce what many people consider a stain on America’s reputation for justice.

“The maintenance of Guantanamo, its symbol and the consequences of the symbolism around the world, it has grown terrorist organizations, not diminished terrorist organizations,” Vice President Joe Biden said on CBS News' Face The Nation on Sunday.

“In the view of many around the world, Guantanamo represents indefinite detention, torture, and abuse,” concluded a recent report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think-tank. “Guantanamo does serve as a recruitment tool for al Qaeda.”

But the Obama administration’s decision to close the facility leaves many unanswered questions: What will happen to 245 detainees who remain there, most of whom have never been charged with a crime? How will detainees that deserve to be prosecuted be handled? Where will detainees deserving release be sent? And where will those destined for continued detention be held in the future?

"We won't release people inside the United States," Vice President Biden insisted on Face The Nation. "They’re either going to be moved and tried in American courts, tried in military courts, or they’re going to be sent back to their own countries.

"We're going one prisoner at a time," he continued. "We're trying to figure out exactly what we've inherited here.”

At its peak, there were 759 men detained at Guantanamo, but over the past seven years, the Pentagon has freed more than 500 of them. Despite Bush administration assertions that the detainees constituted the “worst of the worst” terrorists, except for 14 well-known “high value” detainees such as the alleged 9/11 conspirators, studies of the Pentagon's own case files by the Seton Hall University Law School tell a different story.

Looking primarily at the Combatant Status Review Tribunal reports for 558 detainees held as of August 2004, Professor Mark Denbeaux and a team of his law students discovered that 55 percent of those detainees had never committed a hostile act, while only eight percent had been labeled al Qaeda fighters.

"They swept up a whole lot of people by mistake without investigation, and they don't know what to do with them," Denbeaux told CBS News. "Only four percent of everyone in Guantanamo was captured by U.S. forces."

The first completed military commission prosecution was brought against Salim Hamdan, alleged to have once been a driver for al Qaeda’s leader, Osama bin Laden. Last August, a military jury found Hamdan guilty of providing material support for terrorism (less than what military prosecutors alleged) and sentenced him to five-and-one-half years, crediting him for five years already served in Guantanamo. In November, the U.S. deported Hamdan to his native Yemen, and he has since been freed.

Men with much less evidence against them continue to languish at Guantanamo, according to the Seton Hall studies.

"The reality was that we had a handful of people in Guantanamo, who the military believed were fighters for al Qaeda, and now we're talking 40 or 50 people total. The rest of them were unrelated to al Qaeda, fighting and combat," said Denbeaux, who is helping defend two detainees from Tunisia.

The Pentagon has already cleared 60 detainees for release, but neither their home countries nor any other nations have agreed to accept them. Of the185 other detainees, about 100 are from Yemen, about 25 are from Afghanistan, with most of the rest from Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Algeria and China.

What worries the Pentagon most are that released detainees might "rejoin the fight" against the U.S. The military claims 61 have done so; however, they have declined to release a complete list of their names.

"It is pure propaganda, and they know it, because they can't even justify or explain their numbers," Denbeaux said. He adds the number includes freed former detainees who’ve done nothing more than denounce their treatment in U.S. custody.

Most troublesome are cases like Abdallah Salih al-Ajmi, a Kuwaiti released in 2005 who two years later killed 13 Iraqi soldiers in a suicide bombing in Mosul; or Ali al-Shihri, a detainee who was deported back to Saudi Arabia in 2007. After the Saudis released him, Al-Shihri emerged as the deputy leader of al Qaeda's branch in bordering Yemen.

“Imprisonment only increased our persistence in our principles for which we went out, did jihad for, and were imprisoned for,” al-Shihri said in a 19-minute video posted Friday on an Islamic militant Web site monitored by SITE Intelligence Group.

With the shutdown of Guantanamo due to become a reality by early next year, the Pentagon is surveying bases on the U.S. mainland that might house the remaining detainees. This includes the Marine base at Camp Pendleton, near San Diego, Calif.; the Navy base at Charleston, S.C.; and the Army’s Fort Leavenworth, which hosts the military’s only maximum security prison, near Kansas City.

But political resistance is brewing. Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., has called the potential transfer to Leavenworth “unwise and unsafe,” while his fellow Republican from Kansas, Sen. Pat Roberts, has vowed, “This is just not going to happen on our watch.”

As for the legal disposition of the detainees, many with experience in prosecuting terrorism cases believe the existing federal criminal courts system is ultimately the preferred venue.

"It's a known system, and it gives people confidence and a certain comfort level," Michael Garcia, who just stepped down as U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, tells CBS News. “Anything else, a commission, a hybrid court that some folks have talked about creating, is going to be challenged.”

Over the past 15 years, Garcia and a series of federal prosecutors in the Southern District demonstrated how to handle such cases, often with classified evidence, convicting more than three dozen men (many with al Qaeda ties) for heinous terrorist acts or providing material support for terrorism.

The list includes the terrorists behind the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, including that plot’s leader, Ramzi Yousef, and the attacks on U.S. embassies in East Africa in 1998.

The list also includes a preventive prosecution of Egyptian Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and nine followers for a thwarted plot to bomb a bridge, tunnels, an FBI building, and the United Nations in New York City.

“The process is going to be one of looking at each case, looking at what the evidence is and how that fits with existing cases or how that would make separate criminal charges,” said Garcia, now with the law firm Kirkland & Ellis. “Some of them are actually charged in federal court already.”

Mohammed is already under indictment in New York for a foiled early-'90s plot, in conjunction with Yousef, to blow up a dozen airliners over the Pacific Ocean. Another Guantanamo detainee, Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, is under indictment for the embassy bombings.

But prosecutors could have significant hurdles to overcome under the rules in federal court. Were confessions coerced or made voluntarily? Is there admissible, corroborating evidence? And will the harsh treatment at Guantanamo, even torture, disqualify cases?

"Particularly when statements have been taken overseas by authorities of a foreign government that we've tried to use, you always have challenges, you always have challenges based on misconduct. You will certainly see that here," Garcia said.

Seven years hasn’t lessened the pain for Andrew Arias and his siblings of losing their brother, Adam, a 37-year-old newlywed who loved to sing ballads.

"It wasn't an Arias wedding unless Adam sang two or three songs," Arias said.

With the fledgling military commissions now on hold, Arias is waiting for the last verse of the Guantanamo saga to be written. He said, "The trials are just getting started, and then they shut 'em down.”

By CBS Producer Phil Hirschkorn.

[mamoore66]

PRESIDENT HUSSEIN OSAMA?

WHO IS NEXT PRESIDENT ADOLPH HITLER?

[mamoore66]

Whay should they get any trial? They did not fight for our Constitution or Freedom.....REMEMBER the Terrorists who blew up the Pentagon and World Trade Center TRAINED IN US FLIGHT SCHOOLS.....WAKE UP AMERICA...THEY ARE IN OUR UNIVERSITIES, OUR BANKS AND HAVE MOVED INTO THE WHITE HOUSE!

[mamoore66]

I THINK THEY ARE MOVING INTO THE WHITE HOUSE!

WAKE UP AMERICA....ATTACK IS IMMINENT!!!

[dimebag5151]

LoL. Let them go Obama, we need more terrorists like these:

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/01/26/monitor/entry4753395.shtml

[notblue]

These militants have been in limbo since they CAPTURED ON THE FORIEGN BATTLE FIELD KILLING AMERICAN SOLDIERS, or PLOTTING AND CARRYING OUT 911. Lets'' just ignore those facts and treat them like American citizens, maybe they could move to halfway houses in the U.S. if they promise ot be good.

[observer2020]

The dictionary is correct. Limbo is exactly where these people have been for 8 years. Limbo: ''any intermediate, indeterminate state; a place or condition of confinement, neglect, or oblivion. Or, a dance in which the dancers bend from the knees as far back as possible to pass beneath a bar that is put lower and lower.'' Although there are some who really belong there or in a real prison under in solitary confinement, the others just got caught up in the initial sweep, which is wrong.

[observer2020]

grumpas: mrs_bun needs to cook them buns just a little more...definitely not completely cooked. Anyway, she reads just the headlines and nothing more. And probably the worst representative of the Christian faith I''ve ever seen.

[crescentgirl]

If you accuse someone off an offense and then lock them up for 8 yrs without a trial or any way of defending themselves....what would you expect?....they are going to have a good impression of the U.S? I would think they would have an axe to grind. Bush brought this on our country...i think he should be tried for treason. He betrayed his own country...what a shame.

[grumpas]

This story is wrong! They are not in Limbo! Limbo is reserved for babies who died before they could be baptised.

Posted by mrs_bun

Only if you are looking at it from the stand point of theology. It''s obvious that''s all the further your mind goes. So spare us a sermon. American Heritage Dictionary defines it among other things as a ''state or place of confinement''. So therefore the article is correct they are in limbo.

[mavnomore]

REPORT ON GUANTANAMO DETAINEES

A Profile of 517 Detainees through Analysis of Department of Defense Data

By Mark Denbeaux

Professor, Seton Hall University School of Law and
Counsel to two Guantanamo detainees

THE GUANTANAMO DETAINEES: THE GOVERNMENT%u2019S STORY
Professor Mark Denbeaux* and Joshua Denbeaux*

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

The media and public fascination with who is detained at Guantanamo and why has been
fueled in large measure by the refusal of the Government, on the grounds of national security, to
provide much information about the individuals and the charges against them. The information
available to date has been anecdotal and erratic, drawn largely from interviews with the few
detainees who have been released or from statements or court filings by their attorneys in the
pending habeas corpus proceedings that the Government has not declared %u201Cclassified.%u201D

cont

[mavnomore]

cont

This Report is the first effort to provide a more detailed picture of who the Guantanamo
detainees are, how they ended up there, and the purported bases for their enemy combatant
designation. The data in this Report is based entirely upon the United States Government%u2019s own
documents.1 This Report provides a window into the Government%u2019s success detaining only those
that the President has called %u201Cthe worst of the worst.%u201D

Among the data revealed by this Report:

1. Fifty-five percent (55%) of the detainees are not determined to have committed any hostile acts against the United States or its coalition allies.

2. Only 8% of the detainees were characterized as al Qaeda fighters. Of the remaining detainees, 40% have no definitive connection with al Qaeda at all and 18% are have no definitive affiliation with either al Qaeda or the Taliban.

cont

[mavnomore]

cont

3. The Government has detained numerous persons based on mere affiliations with a
large number of groups that in fact, are not on the Department of Homeland Security terrorist
watchlist. Moreover, the nexus between such a detainee and such organizations varies considerably.
Eight percent are detained because they are deemed %u201Cfighters for;%u201D 30% considered %u201Cmembers of;%u201D a
large majority %u2013 60% -- are detained merely because they are %u201Cassociated with%u201D a group or groups the
Government asserts are terrorist organizations. For 2% of the prisoners their nexus to any terrorist
group is unidentified.

4. Only 5% of the detainees were captured by United States forces. 86% of the
detainees were arrested by either Pakistan or the Northern Alliance and turned over to United States
custody.
This 86% of the detainees captured by Pakistan or the Northern Alliance were handed over to the
United States at a time in which the United States offered large bounties for capture of suspected
enemies.

5. Finally, the population of persons deemed not to be enemy combatants %u2013 mostly
Uighers %u2013 are in fact accused of more serious allegations than a great many persons still deemed to
be enemy combatants.

[mavnomore]

Gitmo: Where''s the evidence? Cases prove impossible to prosecute

By John Amato Sunday Jan 25, 2009 3:01pm
This latest story on Gitmo is just staggering:

A former military prosecutor said in a declaration filed in federal court yesterday that the system of handling evidence against detainees at Guantanamo Bay is so chaotic that it is impossible to prepare a fair and successful prosecution.

Vandeveld, who has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, was the lead prosecutor against Jawad until he asked to be relieved of his duties last year, citing a crisis of conscience. He said the case has been riddled with problems, including alleged physical and psychological abuse of Jawad by Afghan police and the U.S. military, as well as reliance on evidence that was later found to be missing, false or unreliable.

Do you want more incompetence?

He said the evidence was scattered throughout databases, in desk drawers, in vaguely labeled containers or "simply piled on the tops of desks" of departed prosecutors.

cont

[mavnomore]

cont

"I further discovered that most physical evidence that had been collected had either disappeared" or had been stored in unknown locations, he said.

John Cole says:

Here is what I don%u2019t understand: Why is this repeatedly framed as a problem for Obama, when this really is evidence that the Bush administration accomplished NOTHING with Guantanamo? This is not a problem for Obama. This is proof that the last administration was a group of incompetent hacks. Bush decided that he had the right to detain people forever, do whatever he wanted to them, and they had no rights whatsoever, he ruined our international reputation and most likely violated dozens of laws, yet he let these allegedly dangerous people go. Why? What was the purpose of Gitmo, anyway? Why do all this stuff and STILL let the dangerous guys go free?

[tincup356]

Re-investigate 911 the first investigation was a sham and a cover up.....The people that died that day deserve to have the real truth told ...not the Bushit story we were told.....after all how many things did Bush lie about over the last 7 years?

[dumdnc]

They''d be welcome in murtha''s backyard what with all those "angry white people clinging to guns and religion".
Still think the the lib congress should take them.

[wvu74621]

They swept up a whole lot of people by mistake without investigation, and they don''t know what to do with them.

Professor Mark Denbea

I don''t know, when I was on the battlefield, my unit did''nt stop to investigate wether or not someone shooting at us was just sadly mistaken.

[wvu74621]

Was''nt the GITMO Oversight Committee Chairman Democratic Senator Ben Nelson from Nebraska?

[wvu74621]

You have some kind of fetish for President Obama''''s hands.


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Posted by Jesus_in_pee at 06:37 AM : Jan 26, 2009


OOOOHHH your creepin me out.

[wvu74621]

The kool-aid lemmings believe that all the nations problems will be solved with a wave of Obamas hand. Oh! there is word that Obama made 510 campaign promiises to get your vote.