Researchers Focus On Vaccine Deniers

Many In Small Oregon Town Believe Childhood Vaccinations Do More Harm Than Good

(AP)  There are so many parents in this free-spirited, unconventional small town who won't get their kids vaccinated that federal researchers are paying money just to hear their side of things.

On Saturday, 80 locals will get $50 apiece to talk about their worries over the risks of childhood shots.

"One of the basic tenets of my decision-making is mistrust of the government, a mistrust of the pharmaceutical companies, and mistrust of the big blanket thing that says this is what everybody has to do," says Tracy Harding, an organic farming consultant and mother of two.

"I get the public health standpoint," she said. "I am still questioning (vaccines') safety."

Nationally, there is a budding movement of parents who are getting exemptions from laws requiring children to get vaccinated before attending school. The exemptions are one explanation the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention gives for a spike in measles cases. The government recommends as many as 10 vaccines before a child is 6, plus boosters along the way.

Dr. Ben Schwartz, an adviser to the National Vaccine Program, said the meeting in Ashland is one of three where the government is paying average citizens to give their views to inform officials charting the direction of vaccine research for the next five years. A similar meeting was held in Birmingham, Ala., and another is set for Indianapolis, both sites with more mainstream views about vaccines.

But Ashland stands apart from the mainstream.

The town of 20,000 on the flanks of the Siskiyou Mountains in southwestern Oregon has always been different. In the early 20th century it was on the Chautauqua lecture circuit, and the sulfurous waters of Lithia Springs drew visitors looking for a cure for what ailed them.

Today, it has one of the highest rates in the nation for vaccine exemptions - 28 percent and rising in kindergartens, compared with about 4 percent statewide. One alternative school has 67 percent.

A liberal outpost in a conservative region, Ashland likes to go its own way. The city has its own water and electric utilities, and was a pioneer promoting solar energy, high-speed Internet, and dog parks. It has serious debates about whether to cut down trees to expand the library or whether to allow a woman to ride her bicycle naked in the Fourth of July parade.

For years, Dr. Jim Shames, a physician who prefers a down vest to a lab coat, has argued the benefits of vaccines with Harding, his next-door neighbor.

As Jackson County's chief medical officer, Shames would like every child immunized. Ashland always has some whooping cough around, which can be devastating to babies, but has seen no spike in measles. Still, Shames fears the community is vulnerable because so many international visitors come to the Oregon Shakespeare Festival and Southern Oregon University.

Shames has been working with nursing students from Oregon Health & Science University on a pamphlet that would promote immunization.

While doing interviews for that pamphlet, nursing student Shauna Gargus, who had her own two kids vaccinated, found many parents distrust mainstream medicine. They tend to believe their friends rather than medical research. Their biggest single fear is that the shot for measles, mumps and rubella could cause their children to become autistic, despite solid scientific studies that show no evidence of that.

"The fear is real for parents, and it overshadows the research," she said. "This is my hometown. This is where I grew up. I care about the community here. I just really would like to not make this a browbeating issue."

Harding is suspicious of the need to inject so many vaccines into small children. She stopped vaccinating her son, Frank, after his first shot as a baby triggered hours of crying. Her daughter, Stella, got a tetanus shot, but that is all.

Until now, Tyre Dawn has depended on organic food and plenty of playtime outdoors to keep her 4-year-old son, Lukyan, healthy. But she is planning to open a preschool in the spring, and with so many children around, she is now rethinking her policy.

"It is essential in these times for everyone to look more closely at the choices they are making," she said.

Jennifer Margulis moved here with her husband and three kids from Massachusetts, where her mother is a cellular biologist and member of the National Academy of Sciences. Though she chuckles at some of Ashland's personality quirks, she embraces the city's strong sense of community and many people's distrust of mainstream medicine.

"I never questioned the efficacy or intelligence of doing vaccines until I was in the hospital with my newborn daughter and a doctor tried to get me to give her hepatitis B vaccine," she said. "Hepatitis B is a sexually transmitted disease. I knew I didn't have hepatitis B. I knew my husband didn't have it. I knew there was no way she would come in contact with anyone with hepatitis B.

"You have this tiny, frog-like baby and they want to shoot her up with things."

Afterward, Margulis' pediatrician supported her choice. "I decided it was my responsibility as a parent to research each and every vaccine to make an informed, intelligent decision, not to just follow what doctors told me," she said.

[garbosmed]

Good for the parents; they''ve done more homework than this article. The CDC does not recommend "as many as 10" vaccines before age 6 -- that was back in 1983. Take a look at the current CDC Vaccine Schedule for 2009. The current tally, when you add it up, is 48 vaccines by age 6, for 14 diseases. All but 13 of those are given by age 24 months. That''s 34 vaccines by age 2, starting on the day of birth, many of which still contain "trace" amounts of mercury, or in the case of flu vaccine full amounts, plus aluminum adjuvants that have been implicated in Gulf War Syndrome, MSG, and all kinds of other chemicals. Stop making these parents out to be crazy by calling them "vaccine deniers". They''re the only ones looking out for their kids. If you look at the 2009 schedule, THAT''S what''s crazy.

[my2centss]

How many of the 28% unvaccinated kids in this town have autism compared to the vaccinated kids?

[frankie2fing]

And when polio strikes down 10 or 12 kids or measles kills some older ''deniers'', we will hear that the government should have done more to ensure these people were vaccinated. There has been NO LINK to autism due to vaccines, BUT there has been a possible link to women who smoke (tobacco and/or pot) and other drugs. HMMMM, maybe we should outlaw tobacco.

[notfooled]

I''m thinking folks should be wary of vaccines. I''m thinking American medicine is way more interested in financial success than patient satisfaction.

I''m thinking drug companies want to make money in spite of what is best for the patient, and, quite frankly, don''t trust anyone who feeds on the misery of others like parasites.

Who do you think got all the laws passed having to do with your child being immunized before he/she could attend school?

My best advice is to stay away from folks claiming to want to help you by draining your pocketbook.

[rwsmith29456]

Diptheria, whooping cough, rubella, polio, were major childhood diseases and often caused death or deformation. The list is a lot longer. People think these diseases are eradicated now and that the vaccines are worse than the disease. Evidence shows that diseases do not die out.

[ubrew12]

Ashland, Oregon has the best Shakespearean theatre in this half of planet Earth. It''s awesome, and I would SO love to live even near it!

However, the decision to go against the medical establishment is fraught with risk. Ironically, their brave stance has made them useful to medical statisticians, about subjects for which statistical studies alone can determine some idea of a fuzzy ''right or wrong''. I wish them, and US, luck and love in making these difficult decisions for our children.

"Children wish fathers looked but with their eyes; fathers that children with their judgment looked; and either may be wrong."

[garbosmed]

Nobody''s suggesting doing away with polio or measles vaccines. However, going back to the 1983 schedule (there weren''t any outbreaks of measles or polio back then) might be prudent given the huge increase in autoimmune diseases among children.

The reason for the huge increase in the number of vaccines is money. Congress indemnified the manufacturers of vaccines against liability, and now Pharma sees huge (read: Billions of $$) profits by lobbying FDA and CDC to approve and recommend and add these vaccines to the schedule. At a recent "Vaccine Stakeholders" meeting populated by Pharma researchers, the following quotes: "We don''t really know how adjuvants work." "What we need is a predictable regulatory environment." "We see pregnant women as an untapped market for vaccines."

[doorgunner3]

I live a few miles from Ashlandistan.

They are unique and special.

Just like everyone else.

Grow up, people.

[doorgunner3]

For as unique and special as Ashlandistan is, it sure is overpriced, overprivileged and over full of itself.

Now it appears it will be over-diseased.

Jim Shames used to be my doctor.

I feel sorry for him, trying to educate the uneducatable.

[airport1207]

Well, In other words, Those parents are just putting their kids at risk of getting fatal virus.

[standlee5]

What do they give now, something like 28 vaccines before the age of two. It''s absurd. Then they try to get parents to freak out about the flu and get kids vaccinated for that. How will the kid develop an immune system.

[standlee5]

Lukyan?

[miriambk]

Why all the vaccines? Entirely too many for kids now. I agree with standlee5.....children have to develop an immune system. I hear about these "superbugs" and believe that had children been allowed to become ill, unfortunately, they would have been better off in the long run.

[tmittelstaed]

I live in Oregon and whatever you think, PLEASE don''t think that the attitude in Ashland is any representation of the people in the rest of the state. It is mostly populated by CA immigrants who cashed out the equity in their homes and moved north because they wanted to find a Mecca that was weirder than San Francisco and they could buy a home cheap enough so they would never have to work an honest job the rest of their lives, and could spend their free time growing weed.

[bwright923]

I hear about these "superbugs" and believe that had children been allowed to become ill, unfortunately, they would have been better off in the long run.

Posted by miriambk at 01:33 AM : Jan 10, 2009

Actually, those superbugs are caused by people going against the advice of their mainstream doctors and not taking all their antibiotics. There are some diseases that you don''t get a second chance at. Polio, measles, etc were all scourges of society and killed or crippled children by the thousands. Many people were saved due to the hard work of scientists researching these vaccines. You may say that i know kids that weren''t vaccinated but they are fine. Well, they are protected by all the kids who were vaccinated around them and don''t provide a conduit for disease to reach them.

[whitemale08]

Back when I was growing up there were only 2 vaccination shots to take...Polio and Small Pox.

I got the measels, bronchitis, the chicken pox and naturaly my immune system is super strong.

However nowadays because of ''globalization'', pharmaceutical companies like Merck are creating ''made-up drugs'' that do nothing but make you vulnerable to something else or cause some harmfull side-effect.

Like the papaloma virus vaccinantion now for boys too because according to Merck ''boys can transmit cancer sexually''....lol....What a joke.

Most these so-called scientists nowadays are nothing more then eugenisists.

[bwright923]

Everyone talking about how strong their immune system is needs to think about how vacienes work. They impart the same disease fighting antibodies that you got from the disease you were lucky enough to make it through without actually having to have the disease. Its like wearing a helmet insted of bragging about surving a crash that almost killed you without one. Yes you need to know what you are putting in your or your child''s body but just wholesale saying no to all is foolish.

[alanw1077]

That there are people in this day and age that are so stupid as to believe kids are safer without vaccinations just blows me(and most people) away. My kids are 3 and 2 and I would jump in front of a truck before allowing them to go out in the world without being fully vaccinated. It''s too bad parents this dumb can''t be forced to go visit polio victims in wheelchairs and iron lungs, or even visit the parents of kids who had died because they caught one of these preventable diseases. People who neglect their kids like this should not be allowed to be parents, period.
Just more proof there is way too much freedom in this country, including the freedom to attempt murder on our own kids.

[alanw1077]

bwright923 , thanks for saying what needs to be said. You obviously understand the science and the medical side of this.
It''s sad that so many people who are completely ignorant of human biology and viruses and the way medicines work will impose their fears and ignorance on their kids.
Vaccinations have saved more lives than anything else out there. It''s not even close. What''s really ironic is, while impoverished mothers in third-world countries will routinely walk for miles to take their kids to a doctor to get shots that will prevent horrible diseases, we have privileged "civilized" and educated women in this country who have gotten the wacky idea into their head to stop vaccinating. How bizarre that the savages %u201Cget it%u201D while the spoiled housewives are as dumb as rocks.

[jsilver2th]

Posted by tmittelstaed: "I live in Oregon and whatever you think, PLEASE don''''t think that the attitude in Ashland is any representation of the people in the rest of the state. It is mostly populated by CA immigrants who cashed out the equity in their homes and moved north because they wanted to find a Mecca that was weirder than San Francisco and they could buy a home cheap enough so they would never have to work an honest job the rest of their lives, and could spend their free time growing weed."

Wow - what a concept- thanks for the idea!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[jsilver2th]

Now if the FDA works as good as the SEC...

[spadeisspade]

I understand this mistrust about vaccines. Really, I do. But SAN DIEGO was treated with a lovely outbreak of measles due to an unvaccinated child that caught it on a trip to Switzerland last year. The quarantined literally hundreds of children who may have possibly been exposed.

If you want to opt out of vaccinating your child, fine. But you need to be prepared to alter YOUR lifestyle accordingly, not expect everyone else to alter theirs. Send your kid to a godddamn hippie school where no one vaccinates, so if they get sick, only people with your stupid convictions suffer- NOT everyone else.

All medications, vaccinations, food, even the air we breath comes with a warning label, side effects and risks. You can''t plum pick the ones you feel like you have control over, especially ones that put the public at risk (like children that are too young to be vaccinated- the ones likely to DIE of these illnesses). If you decide to do this, put your kid in a bubble, not everyone else exposed to your idiocy.

[bwright923]

amen alanW!

[jsilver2th]

Posted by jmcgilvray: "Fear and distrust of PROVEN science is a return to the dark ages. Denial of benefits provided by medical science is CHILD ABUSE."

Oh like frontal labotomies, shock therapy, ritalin, Thelidamide, DDT- right proven science- ha ha.

[clew37]

"no way she would come in contact with anyone with hepatitis B". And how do you come by that statement? She''ll never be raped, never have ***, never need a transfusion from someone else who doesn''t need shots? Most people with hepatitis never thought it would happen to them either. Those not getting vaccines are also setting themselves up to be the chemical factories germs parasite off of to create new diseases. Where a germ cannot grow, it cannot mutate. I can''t seem to recall any massive outbreaks of polio, dyptheria, whooping cough, etc. in anyplace that has their children vaccinated either. Several instances in places that didn''t though. Must just be a coincidence. Parents are just too *** irresponsible these days, and couldn''t be bothered to educate themselves about vaccines or take their kids to the MD for the prescribed rounds of shots.

[powmadeak47]

Too bad Americans hadn''t question the ''need'' to lok for water on Mars, support Israel and stop Saddam''s WMd programs, like this people do.

Then again, it sure is strange that no comment on the history of the illness wasn''t mentioned. Death rate? And why do they want to give a baby a hepatitis vaccinations? Who makes it?

Oh CBS. So freaking useless.

[whitewolf60]

Creepers, people, I''ve had every shot known to man and THEN some!

I''m sort of a 50 / 50 opinion.... I agree that the number of shot a child has to have before entering school IS getting a little out of hand, but on the other part I agree with what others are saying - nobody wants THEIR child to come down with something that could have been stopped with a vaccination just because some other idiot parents decided NOT to have their son or Daughter vaccinated. TB, Measles, Whooping cough and so on are making a comeback because of people NOT immunizing their children. I say let''s look at the vaccination system and decide what is REALLY necessary. A little common sense would benefit us ALL.

[kurlikew]

Thank goodness for people who are willing to stand up for their right NOT to have their children vaccinated! The potential benefits do NOT outweigh the risks, and most vaccines are ineffective anyway. Nobody should have the right to tell me I have to inject my child with anything - it''s MY CHOICE! I too, will be getting exemption for my son when he starts school. Maybe we''ll move to Ashland!

[perk235]

Because children who do have vaccinations are protected from these diseases, I think it''s not an issue whether someone wants to opt out of having their children vaccinated.

However, the problem is that if they do start contracting these diseases, the virus can mutate and then vaccinated people may no longer be immune. So opting out is not without public health risks.

I think that by opting out, the CDC should be able to easily quarantine people who have not been vaccinated because they are more likely to carry a mutant strain.

The quote about Hepatitis B is interesting, however. The point about vaccines is that they are effective only if given BEFORE exposure to a disease.

Viruses are also being shown to cause cancer. So some vaccines will protect against probability of certain cancers, such as cervical cancer and many people are carriers of that without symptoms, so you can''t be sure someone isn''t infected with HPV.

[perk235]

How bizarre that the savages %u201Cget it%u201D while the spoiled housewives are as dumb as rocks.
Posted by AlanW1077 at 02:41 AM : Jan 10, 2009
--------------------
The language used here to describe people undercuts any argument made. Savages? Spoiled housewives?

[u-r-right]

It looks like Tyre is trying to turn Lukyan into a cross-dressing, gender-bender as well. These are the modern day version of the type of people who used to run around with Charlie Manson.

[tonic12345]

if most of the people commenting here believe that their child could come down with a disease because someone else did not have a vaccine, then why are these commenting people having their child vaccinated?

[pkessler69]

I have a son who is now 4 years old, up until 21 months of age he was just a healthy boy as documented in his pediatricians file, when after he got a round of shots (that they give to two year olds) he got very sick for 4 days. And one year later they officially diagnosed him with severe autism. Thanks to a great Dan Doctor, with the help of change of diet, and nutritional supplements, our son is now attending an integrated pre-K and generally doing much better, but the autism will be with him all his life.

Just because the government tells you that all vaccines are safe for all children, does not make it so. Remember the last 8 years of the Bush administration, Weapons of Mass Destruction etc?? Parents know best what''s right for their children, and this herd mentality demonstrated on so many comments here is deplorable. Have a nice day!

[xraytwonine]

well good point, but many basic vaccines are centuries old, and someone''s got to profit, its only natural, i mean, this feels like yet another ideal just to further separate the "social classes" those who can afford the difference (regardless of its actual worth) and those who can''t

[pkessler69]

I want to add that just because I don''t believe vaccines are safe for ALL children (only for most), does not mean I don''t think all those comments full of conspiracies with backgrounds of "anti Zion" or "Anti Christian", are utterly ridiculous. Let''s keep it real.

[longtree-2009]

apparently, these people number in a very small minority and if they pose no risk to the majority then simply let them make their choice and die. who needs them?

[erasmus606]

I believe that vaccination should be mandatory, because I do not want my child exposed to tetanus, pertussis, measles, or typhoid carried by the child of a family that is opposed to vaccination.

Vaccination is one of the great medical discoveries of all time. It is NOT a conspiracy.

Posted by jbrown88881 at 09:45 AM : Jan 10, 2009

I agree.

What is going to start happening is that we are going to see a steady increase in all these diseases. We will be right back where we started from. We will start seeing more and more children and adults DYING from these diseases. The number of DEATHS will probably out do the cases of autism.

[sincity_q]

This is just one symptom of a general distrust the public has of nearly everything in their society.

We know we can no longer trust our media so we tend to automatically discount everything we read.

We know our government is corrupt, make law based on which special interests pay the most.

We know that the corporate/business sectors, especially the banks, have taken to feeding upon us like cattle.

We know that healthcare is no longer run by doctors and nurses but bean counters in the insurance industry.

All of this distrust runs so very deep that it is entirely impossible to believe for one second that the government simply can''t understand it. They are one of the reasons we distrust and if they missed that, then they are either as obtuse or as dishonest as we think they are.

[mainecoast25]

AntiZion is a religious extremist, a bigot who is using CBSNEWS forums to foster and spew hate. This is about vaccinations not a place for religious bigotry and personal hatred that seems to engulf ''AntiZion''.

CBSNEWS Moderators of Forums need to remove posts from those like AntiZion, they are in violation of the Rules of Engagement that we all have to accept in order to post on these forums.

[sincity_q]

On anti-zionism... this is just a new set of clothes for the old anti-semitism that has been with us forever. Jew hatters give themselves a new name and then sell their hatred as a new and improved item.

[mainecoast25]

The biggest issues here is choice. Parents should be allowed more flexibility in the vaccination schedule. Children of the 60''s and some in the 70''s had single antigen Measles, Mumps and Rubella shots (shots that stretched out to late childhood, not all given by the time a child is 2) and this is a generation with much less ADHD, and autism. In this generation, hardly anyone can remember encountering ADHD, and autism compared to the volume we have today. It isn''t just about better diagnoses or the ability to diagnose either. There isn''t a conspiracy going on, it''s just that some kids may be more vulnerable than others and we have no way of identifying who they are currently. My very strong belief is that we need to allow parents (who choose) to give the live virus vaccines MMR & Varicella in single antigen shots.

[differnet]

I suggest people take a look at what an epidemic of something like polio or even mumps can do. I spent many years researching historic medicine. When a family of 5 children can be wiped out in a week because of mumps, you should be afraid of it. These people depend upon the herd immunity created by the rest of us to protect their kids. With a town like this in Oregon, they can definately have a major outbreak. Sadly, it''s probably going to take 5 or 6 dead kids to teach them that immunizations have done more with reducing childhood death than all other advanced medical procedures put together. I''ve seen early 20th century photographs of children with secondary measles infections and wards of children being kept alive in iron lungs.

I applause these people for standing up against Big Pharma''s profits. These toxins are all synthetic and foreign to the human body. Big Pharma needs to get in step with the rest of the world. Congress we all know that they(Big Pharma) are in your pocket but sometimes the right thing must be done. 100 years from now this time period will be look back on in amazement of total greed by the health care field.

[barbjc1]

My children were born in the 60''s and 70''s and their vaccination list was very small. Polio, DPT and later MMR. The children of these years as stated before did not have a high rate of ADD/ADHD, autism etc.
Let''s look at multiple possible causes. Too many vaccinations in a very small body. It doesn''t take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. Food shipped from foreign countries, too many preservatives in the food and too many parents so stressed out and worn out from long working hours to keep their jobs not having the energy to cook meals.
I can''t understand why doctors do not take a stand and tell the government that all of those vaccines in such a small body is dangerous.
GOOD FOR THE PARENTS THAT ARE MAKING THE DECISIONS. Also, this business of drugging the so-called ADD/ADHD children is bad news.Are you aware of these so-called psychiatrists and pychologists overdiagnosing bi-polarism and are drugging up our preteen and teenage children. Have you ever met a teenager that is not a pain in the buttocks. They are few and far between. A quote from Hillary Clinton "IF WE DO NOT TAKE CARE OF OUR CHILDREN NOTHING ELSE WE DO MATTERS".
I am also definitely NOT a hard right religious fanatic, but the rise of single parenthood is scary because most of the time the father is nowhere to be found. Plus a high percentage of the time the mother does not have the resources or education to suppport the child in the manner it deserves.

[thee0racle]

Ashland parents: don''t attend; it MUST be a trick. THe gov''t already knows the reasons you are not vaccinating. They just need you to present yourselves so you may all be infected...either as a test or to skew any future statistics that would have otherwise weakened their case.

[sandy19731]

I''ve seen early 20th century photographs of children with secondary measles infections and wards of children being kept alive in iron lungs.
Posted by differnet at 11:01 AM : Jan 10, 2009

How soon we forget, that was a scary and awful time.

[sandy19731]

The best the experts can say is it has some sort of genetic cause. Well that''''s not good enough. Researchers have been looking into this for well over a decade now.
Posted by endrepubs at 10:56 AM : Jan 10, 2009
yep, I say give em two more years and if they don''t find the answer then endrepubs is in charge!

[dkhorse1]

What a crock, these bible thumpers are afraid to get a shot unless God tells them to.

There are kids in the United States, TODAY, with polio

becaus eof fools like these, I bet thay all voted for Bush

________________________________________
Posted by pythoncharly at 12:08 PM : Jan 10, 2009

"One of the basic tenets of my decision-making is mistrust of the government, a mistrust of the pharmaceutical companies, and mistrust of the big blanket thing that says this is what everybody has to do," says Tracy Harding, an organic farming consultant and mother of two.

(Doesn%u2019t sound to conservative to me) plus they live in Oregon, you%u2019re denied residency if your republican there.

[erasmus606]

"One of the basic tenets of my decision-making is mistrust of the government, a mistrust of the pharmaceutical companies, and mistrust of the big blanket thing that says this is what everybody has to do," says Tracy Harding, an organic farming consultant and mother of two."

I understand where the paranoia is coming from. America''s government and pharmaceutical companies have done nothing but take the people of America on a big ride. BUT, that isn''t the case in other countries and we all have vaccines too. So unless America is using a different method in making the vaccines, I think that they should get over the paranoia in this particular case.

[Diamonddavej]

"My children were born in the 60''''s and 70''''s and their vaccination list was very small. Polio, DPT and later MMR. The children of these years as stated before did not have a high rate of ADD/ADHD, autism etc." - BarbJC1

In the 60s-70s, autism was thought to be a form of childhood schizophrenia, only the most extreme and rare cases were diagnosed. Today autism is recognised to be a very broad spectrum from relatively rare severe cases (now called Kanner''s Autism) to the milder and more common Asperger''s syndrome, which merges seamlessly into "normal" eccentricity.

ADHD was not officially recognised until 1987.