DWI Deaths: Is It Murder?

Bob Simon On One Prosecutor's Efforts To Increase Penalties For Drunk Drivers Who Kill

(CBS)  "Is it difficult sometimes to obtain harsh sentences because so many people on the jury have, at one time or another, driven when they shouldn't have?" Simon asks Kathleen Rice.

"I think there is a lot of identification with the drunk driver, almost too much and we need, as a society, to identify first with the possibility that we could be a victim of this crime before we say, 'Wow, I can identify with the drunk driver.' We need that shift to occur," she says.

As for Martin Heidgen, his murder trial began a year after he ran into the Flynns' limousine, and the Flynns made sure they were at the courthouse every day.

"Just like some families decide they wanna forgive and ask for leniency, we were there for the opposite. I wanted that courthouse on top of him. I wanted him buried under the jail. I want him dead," Katie's father Neil says.

The trial took six weeks; Heidgen was convicted of second degree murder and sentenced to 18 years to life. The verdict sealed Rice's reputation as a leader in campaign against drunk driving. She has continued on the warpath: she pushed for and got new legislation passed in New York making it easier to get long sentences for drunk drivers who kill.

Kathleen Rice broadcasts her message wherever she thinks it will be heard. She regularly goes to high schools in her county and talks tough to students.

Her message to them is the same as it is to everyone in Nassau County and to everyone in the country: "And I can guarantee you one thing, that if you make the decision to drink and drive one of two things are going to happen. You're either going to end up dead or you're going to end up going to prison for a long, long time."

---

Martin Heidgen is filing an appeal, which he says is why he declined to talk to 60 Minutes. Meanwhile, District Attorney Rice prosecuted the case of another drunk driver who killed someone. He was also convicted of depraved indifference murder and got 25 years to life.

[dtrains]

In addition, anyone that kills someone by running a red light at 50+mph to get somewhere 1 minute faster, text messaging while driving, or excessively speeding should be tried for murder.

Few people realize that a minority of traffic fatalities are caused by drunk driving. I agree that there is no excuse for drunk driving and it should be punished severely. I just think that there is mentalitly that if a traffic fatality does not involve alcohol, it was just a terrible "accident". They are no better or worse than DUI fatalities in my opinion.

[cototita]

My son, a senior in high school dream was to play college football, serve his country and became a military man... About a year ago he was struck by Drunk Driver who was fleeing the scene of another crime about 70 mph, leaving my son severely injured and handicap for the rest of his life, the Drunk Driver had a choice, my son didn't and his dreams fade away.It is been a year of physical and emotional agony, the Drunk Drivers has not pay any penalty so far, I wish we have a Kathleen Rice in Westchester County to.

[arleaning]

All the banter over the years about tough talk and tough laws. Perhaps what should be looked into is Japan's "Social Responsibility" Laws regarding alcohol and motor vehicles. Everyone needs to get involved and take a stand. The life spared may be someone you love.

[blondelady]

Oh Yes it is Murder!!! These individuals choose to drink and drive, knowing the consequences...they made a choice to be irresponsible ...if they kill under the influence...they should be charged with murder. It was no accident, they drank on purpose...
All states should put laws to the Legislature making tough sentences for murder under the influence. Linda ...In Texas...where we are #1 in DWI deaths...something to be really proud of....sad but true....

[chrishazzoo]

No one should operate a vehicle (boats included) after drinking too much. They should also be punished if they take a life as a result of their drinking and driving. However, I would be pissed off if the penalties in these cases are greater than the penalties given to people who intentionally kill another person. Also, penalizing a first time offender as harsh as a person with a DUI history wouldn't seem appropriate. The level of intoxication should also be a factor. I have heard of ambitious prosecuters attempting to severely punish drivers who have been at .079, just below the limit. That would mean anyone who had 1 drink at dinner and was involved in an accident could be penalized severely when more than likely the drink didn't cause the accident. Lastly, what about people who drive when they have had little to no sleep in 30 hours? Stats show they are just as bad or worse at driving than those intoxicated. Intent is huge in my book when it comes to punishing someone...someone who has been in trouble time and time again for driving while intoxicated starts to form intent when getting behind the wheel. They KNOW since they have been in trouble that they could kill someone, but yet they still do it. This issue is huge and cannot be addressed simply by throwing these people in jail for life with hardened criminals, child rapists, child killers etc.

[emald]

Imo, people who make a habit of DUI may have a false sense of confidence, i.e., if they've avoided accidents before, they assume they can avoid them again and again. I think that's also true of drivers who are sleepy, use cell phones, or text messages. It's risky, but there's a difference between false confidence and depraved indifference.

[chrishazzoo]

What is the difference between false confidence and depraved indifference? The guy who killed Angels pitcher Adenhart, I am assuming he would fall under depraved indifference. He had many warnings, and was even warned by his partner of the day not to drive. He didn't leave the bar thinking "I am going to run in to a car full of passengers and leave them dead, instead he left the bar thinking "i just hope I can get home without the cops pulling me over" or, he was so blasted he thought "I am just fine to drive, I feel just fine".So many warnings and the kid would not take preventative measures. He didn't even ponder the though that he may kill someone. His sentence should be harsh. Yes he made a mistake, but he had many serious warning demanding he change his behaviour. He chose to keep drinking, then driving. He needs years in prison to think through this one.

[mahdui]

When someone chooses to drink they need to choose NOT to drive. It's a choice that is made and a bad one if they choose to drink and drive. It's no different than buying a gun and shooting it in the air and having the bullet fall to the earth and kill someone. It's Russian Roulette with an automobile. As much as we hear about DUI, everyone who drives should know that drinking and driving kills. If they choose to drink and drive then they know they will go to jail for the rest of their lives if they kill someone, then just maybe it will deter the crime. I applaud Kathleen Rice. I am so angry that there are repeat, chronic, habitual drunk drivers that time and time again get arrested for it and get off with a slap on the hand that I could just scream. Look into the eyes of a mother who has lost her child due to someone's irresponsible actions, feelings of entitlement, and feelings of invincibility to drink and drive and tell me they shouldn't be prosecuted. I say put them under the jail and make it safer for the rest of us on the roads.

[gilio76]

Besides being Albany Family Court Judge, Maney has also been acting Supreme Court Justice since 1991, Judge of Family Treatment Court since 2002 and Judge of Juvenile Drug Court since 2006.

Maney was the focus of national attention in 2000 when Jill and Michael Carroll of Berne took their son off of Ritalin and were charged with neglect. The Carroll's had become concerned about the side effects of the drug prescribed for their son who had ADHD. Judge Maney sided with Child Protective Services, without hold a fact finding hearing according to the New York State law journal.

A September 29, 2006 Times-Union article claimed that Judge Maney had seen 23 men and women successfully complete drug and alcohol treatment in his court.

In 2001, the Third Division of the New York State Appellate Court overturned a ruling of Judge Maney's that had terminated a father's visiting rights. According to the New York Law Journal, the court ruled that Maney had expressed hostility toward the father and his attorney and thwarted the father's efforts to visit his son. The case was then turned over to a different judge.

There are currently no plans to remove Judge Gerard E. Maney from the bench while he awaits the outcome of the charges against him.

Where is the justice for our tax payers DWI is a felony

[The_Christian_Prophet]

This case, however tragic, and the prosecuter Kathleen Rice, only serve to illustrate the bankruptcy of our nation's criminal justice system. Not that the system was ever perfect, but where were the 'Judge' and jury during this fiasco - were they too asleep at the wheel of justice?

This case is hardly unique, but this arbitrary sentence is. This case is a moral outrage. One can only fear for a country who's people are blind to such madness.

To compare an automobile fatality, whether the result of driver fatigue, a mother looking over the back of her shoulder at her children while driving, or a driver playing with the radio, a cell-phone, a text-message, a computer, or as in this case the decision made by a young man to drive after he was too impaired to make rational decision can only be compared to murder in the land of Oz.

[billb3672]

I live in Arizona and as a former police officer I wish we had a Prosecutor like Kathleen Rice! With her and Sheriff Joe Arpio working together in our county we would have less issues with Drunk Drivers. I am sure the ovrall crime rate would drop even more.
Kathleen- Thanks for standing up for the victims of these drunks that seem to stay in the system and are only slapped on the wrist when arrested for DUI and when they kill someone they get off with probation.
Keep up the good work and hopefully we will se you in Arizona

[airports]

hello the TSA was created right afetr 9/11---and thats when the TSA took over the airports in secracy the way they did it ---- think a minute-- there were already screening companies in place right?? so that did not stop the TSA and going to airports except for SFO and getting rid of most people that were there doing a great job-and replacing screeners with experience--They came up with a test an apptitude test from a company --the name escapes me right now--- that could not even correct high scholl papers correctly--what happened a year or 2 before 9/11 high school kids took a test to pass but failed -the parants sued and won the company used the wrong test answer sheet--but theTSA used this company to screen new employees!!!! TSA govenment should never have been alowed to take over poples jobs the way they did

[emald]

As horrible as it is, drunk driving is not murder. It's not inevitable drunk drivers will injure themselves or others. How does Rice get away with making such an illogical statement? We need stiffer penalties, much more than a year in jail or community service, but it's a mistake to reinvent the meaning of murder.

[jtull2009]

Why not require a breatherlizer on all new cars?

Maybe in few years we could expand it to include used cars.

To me it is like not putting regulaters on cars. \

It is just another way for police to make money off people and totally preventable. Sad, but true.

Build cars that can't go faster than 55 and must be driven by a sober person and police revenue goes way down.

Truth hurts.

[saycapt]

yes, its horrible shame we have drunk drivers getting into accidents and killing innocent people

it is approximately 42000 a year hold a person in jail.I bet it would cost society less to have hired taxi drivers / services through out cities and when someone needed a ride home, give them one..even pick up their car in the morning.

42000 x the number of people in jail for drunk driving add up quick


putting people in jail will not stop other people from driving drunk

if a person does get a drunk driving ticket then make him or her pay
take it out of their paycheck and make some kind of restitution

we never weigh societal cost...why?

[RandyInEugene]

YES, DUI is MURDER! Amen to that and kudos to Kathleen Rice for taking a tough stand. The good ol' boys who drink and drive will excuse the behavior by saying he didn't MEAN to kill anyone, but his victims are just as DEAD. For those who say we don't have enough jail room for them, I say shoot drunk drivers on sight. That probably won't sit well with the all the drinkers in this country. Speaking of drinkers, maybe Barack "Bud Light" Obama should invite Kathleen Rice and drunk driver/murderer Martin Heidgen to the White House for a beer. I'm sure that would be as productive as the last Beer Summit meeting. Wasn't that meeting a wonderful way to show how they deal with problems in Washington?

[grandmajeannie]

This story was absolutely heart breaking. However, Kathleen Rice either chooses to disregard or is not aware of the study released recently which indicates that driving while using a cell phone kills as many or more people than drunk drivers. Does Kathleen Rice use her cell phone while driving? If so, she is "acting so wrecklessly so that others were likely to die"..."deaths of others inevitable" so that if Ms. Rice causes a death on the highway while using her cell phone (as it did just a mile from my home), then Ms. Rice must also be charged with "murder by depraved indifference". Where is her warning and campaign against using a cell phone while driving, including using a hands free cell phone, let alone texting while driving? This study was completed several years ago. How many more deaths have happened since that study was completed? How many more must die before someone finally does something about this dangereous and fast growing problem? How many teenagers are 'addicted to texting' before they are old enough to drive? I employ Ms. Rice to get on this issue, ASAP.

[guest173]

it is a deterrent to give them long sentences, then they will be in jail and can't do it again. a lot of people drink and drive several times and even get caught more than once. the sentences should be very long if they kill someone, everyone in society is taught not to drink and drive, they shouldn't get off like they are innocent for killing someone when drinking and driving

[AleQC]

Thank God me or my family have never sufer a tragedy like this, but I think a person who chose to drive after been drinking have to be resposible for their acts. Bravo Mrs. Rice, sometimes this is the only way for people to understand the severity of this problem.

[demoty74]

It is murder! Good for you DA Rice. It is about time that someone put their foot down and stand up for the people that lost their lives by the irresponsible citizens of our society. Let this harsh punishment apply to the rich and famous as well! No one should be above the law when they have taken an innocent life!

[dfigtreeee]

It's not so hard to seriously reduce the number of drunk driving accidents. For people who get drunk at a restaurant, sporting event or any mode of transportation, the business that sold the booze that got the patron drunk is responsible. These businesses already check ID when a drinker arrives. Then they can easily serve up a Breathalyzer test when they leave. If they are over the limit, serve coffee until the police arrive. After a while, this safety measure will take hold.

[RichardRoche]

MS Rice is a jerk pandering to the weak. I think 60 min. should check this holier then thou DA for her skeltons in her closet. Everyone dies and has a time. The great thing about life is her day will come and I hope she gets the mercy she gives!
I hate Madd !
Peace

[ss282]

You, are the Jerk, also an idiot that doesen't even spell check. Rave on