The "Detroit's A Loser" Myth

CNET: Despite Citizens' Complaints About The Bailout, The Big Three Build Really Good Cars And We Buy A Lot Of Them

(CNET)  This story was written by Brian Cooley, Editor at large, CNET.com

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"We shouldn’t bail out companies that build cars nobody wants." You hear that one a lot when it comes to floating the Detroit 3. Now that the initial $17 billion bailout is done, a lot of folks are making a face like they just ate a lemon. To them, the White House has acted as a Kremlin bailing out a Trabant. But the inconvenient truth is GM, Ford and Chrysler build a lot of really good - and often great - cars and we buy a lot of them.

The Detroit 3 sold 8.45 million consumer vehicles in North America in 2007 (the latest year we can reliably benchmark much about the U.S. economy) which is about 52 percent of the total market. Yes, those numbers will be well down in 2008 but so will Toyota’s. But conventional wisdom would have you guess Detroit’s market share is more like 5 percent. In fact, GM outsold Honda in cars alone almost two-to-one in 2007. Add in trucks and it’s even more of a rout. Is Honda building cars nobody wants?

Around the urban United States you find hostility toward Detroit because it makes so many trucks and large SUVs - 5.35 million in 2007. But they didn’t just make that many, they sold that many. We snapped them up. Should we have bought all of those? Probably not, but these are Wall Street-driven companies and the margins on trucks & SUVs were great business. For the consumer populace to wash its hands of any involvement in Detroit’s product plans is disingenuous.

The “Detroit’s a loser” myth is also perpetuated by a black and white presentation of ratings. Consumer Reports holds huge sway with car buyers, and their 2008 top car picks were all import models except for one pickup truck. That’s the sound bite radio and TV stations go with. But look down the list and you’ll find plenty of Detroit cars with the coveted “Recommended” check mark by their name.

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Click here for details of the auto bailout.
Click here to read the full text of President Bush's announcement
Click here to see details of General Motor's bailout terms.
Click here to see details of Chrysler's bailout terms.

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J.D. Power 2008 Initial Quality ratings show that Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevy, Pontiac, Lincoln and Buick all rank above the industry average for initial quality - Acura, Nissan, BMW, Mazda and Volvo all rank below.

At CNET.com we review over 100 cars a year with a focus on technology, the attribute everyone thinks the imports own. Yet in 2008 we came away with kudos for the Cadillac CTS, Chevy Cobalt and Corvette, Ford Mustang, Flex and Fusion, Dodge Challenger and Durango, Lincoln MKS and MKZ, Pontiac Solstice, Saturn VUE and Mercury Mariner. CNET’s editors will tell you SYNC from Ford and Microsoft is a high-tech home run and that Chrysler’s uConnect in-dash systems are an absolute winner.

Kicking Detroit in the ass has been fashionable since the first OAPEC oil embargo of 1973, when we discovered the economical and hardy little cars of Toyota, Datsun and Honda. They were a come down in many ways, but m.p.g. was king, and as the years passed word got out they were really well built. Meanwhile, the media was filled with stories of sparkling, precise Japanese assembly lines compared to sloppy, inefficient UAW teams turning out cars with ill-fitting parts and empty beer cans inside the doors. Uh oh, Detroit suddenly had an image problem.

The auto industry had very long lead times then, so Detroit went into an extended winter during most of the '70s and '80s, ate plenty of humble pie, sent teams to learn from the Japanese (and Germans) and generally played catch up. That’s a long time to be the butt of late night TV jokes and editorial cartoons. By the time great cars started flowing Detroit again it was too late. The glue was dry on the label that read “junk.” You bragged when you brought home your new import, defended yourself when you brought home a new domestic.

Americans have had this bad case of automotive self-loathing ever since. Too many of us see the struggle, too few that we are building our best cars in decades. Our cars still sell in great numbers, but the market share slip leaves us feeling like losers.

If you resent the $17 billion bailout as throwing money down a hole, the best way to counter that is to take a fresh and honest look at the cars of Detroit. It won’t be charity.

[grayfrier]

What gets me is everyone and i mean everyone is blaming our home grown car makers for listening to us and then we inturn stab them in the back.
ok so they need to bring there benifits more in line but guess what the forigan car makers still get over on us why because their Goverments pick up the cost of their Health care who do we blame for that our own goverment thats who for falling for the last 30 years in setting up Globel Medical.
How do i know its so good because a United states citizen was treated in a Canada Hospital when she had a Heart Attack and was never charged for any services given.
I even contacted this hospital and offerd to reinburse then if there were cost not covered why because the person was my own Mother.
Care to guess what i was told.
Come on guess!
I was told there are no further charges as they have been picked up under there Public HealthCare.
Not a dime was asked of me then or now and that was 10 years ago.

[dburfears]

If you listen to the GOP TRAITORS, they will tell you that AMERICAN COMPANIES can''t sell their cars. The LYING GOP says that the FOREIGN COMPANIES (THAT PAY OFF THE SOUTHERN GOP POLITICIANS) sell almost all of the cars in the US.

So why do AMERICANS buy MORE AMERICAN CARS THAN JAPANESE CARS? Why does the GOP LIE?

GM STILL IS THE LARGEST SELLER IN THE US. Why does the GOP LIE?

THE GOP in the SOUTH is all about protecting their MASSIVE FOREIGN AUTO CONSTITUENCY. That is why they have arranged BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN TAX CREDITS FOR THE FOREIGN AUTO COMPANIES IN THE SOUTH.

$BILLIONS FOR TOYOTA

$BILLIONS FOR NISSAN

$BILLIONS FOR HONDA

$BILLIONS for the JAPANESE

U.S. Market Share by Manufacturer
GM 19.3%
Toyota 18.4
Ford 15.4
Chrysler 10.7
Honda 12.0
Nissan 7.2
Hyundai 5.6
BMW (includes Mini) 2.3
Volkswagen (includes Audi) 2.2
Mercedes (includes Smart) 1.8

Summary:
US Auto Companies- 45.4%
Japanese - 37.6
Other countries- 11.9%

[dburfears]

The other component of the "BIG LIE" from the GOP is that the GOPS''s FOREIGN AUTO COMPANY CONTRIBUTORS do not pay much in retirements YET. The FOREGIN AUTO COMPANIES have not been in the US for even 20 years (on average), so the FOREIGN AUTO COMPANIES have LITTLE RETIREMENT OBLIGATIONS. In a few years the FOREIGNERS will have to start paying retirement, and their total manufacturing costs will GO UP to match the current UAW worker costs.

Of course, until then, the GOP TRAITORS will continue to try to kill the US AUTO COMPANIES so that the FOREIGN companies in THEIR SOUTHERN STATES can PROSPER and continue to PAY OFF THE GOP in the South.

When the LYING GOP TRAITORS say the UAW workers are getting too many benefits, they CONVENIENTLY LIE about the fact that the US Auto Companies have RETIREES and the GOP''s FOREIGN MASTERS have few retirees.


The SOUTHERN GOP has SOLD OUT AMERICA for a few PIECES OF GOLD.
This is just more of the BIG LIE from the TRAITORS in the SOUTHERN GOP.

[dburfears]

The other component of the "BIG LIE" from the GOP is that the GOPS''s FOREIGN AUTO COMPANY CONTRIBUTORS do not pay much in retirements YET. The FOREGIN AUTO COMPANIES have not been in the US for even 20 years (on average), so the FOREIGN AUTO COMPANIES have LITTLE RETIREMENT OBLIGATIONS. In a few years the FOREIGNERS will have to start paying retirement, and their total manufacturing costs will GO UP to match the current UAW worker costs.

Of course, until then, the GOP TRAITORS will continue to try to kill the US AUTO COMPANIES so that the FOREIGN companies in THEIR SOUTHERN STATES can PROSPER and continue to PAY OFF THE GOP in the South.

When the LYING GOP TRAITORS say the UAW workers are getting too many benefits, they CONVENIENTLY LIE about the fact that the US Auto Companies have RETIREES and the GOP''s FOREIGN MASTERS have few retirees.


The SOUTHERN GOP has SOLD OUT AMERICA for a few PIECES OF GOLD.
This is just more of the BIG LIE from the TRAITORS in the SOUTHERN GOP.

[dburfears]

The other component of the "BIG LIE" from the GOP is that the GOPS''s FOREIGN AUTO COMPANY CONTRIBUTORS do not pay much in retirements YET. The FOREGIN AUTO COMPANIES have not been in the US for even 20 years (on average), so the FOREIGN AUTO COMPANIES have LITTLE RETIREMENT OBLIGATIONS. In a few years the FOREIGNERS will have to start paying retirement, and their total manufacturing costs will GO UP to match the current UAW worker costs.

Of course, until then, the GOP TRAITORS will continue to try to kill the US AUTO COMPANIES so that the FOREIGN companies in THEIR SOUTHERN STATES can PROSPER and continue to PAY OFF THE GOP in the South.

When the LYING GOP TRAITORS say the UAW workers are getting too many benefits, they CONVENIENTLY LIE about the fact that the US Auto Companies have RETIREES and the GOP''s FOREIGN MASTERS have few retirees.


The SOUTHERN GOP has SOLD OUT AMERICA for a few PIECES OF GOLD.
This is just more of the BIG LIE from the TRAITORS in the SOUTHERN GOP.

[cmalone24]

First of all when they say 70 an hour they are talking about the cost of benefits AND wages for an employee making 28-30 an hour. So compared to the foreign workers that equal to around 50 they are saying it costs more for each domestic worker because the company pays more for benefits out of their pocket.
People seem to get confused with this and think they mean the actual workers is bringing home 70 an hour.

[whitemale08]

It''s not UAW''s fault or Detroit''s fault, it''s ''globalization''.

Globalization has been discredited.

And the same idiots who told us for years that ''globalization'' was good for us are now telling us that it''s ''globalization'' that will rescue us from the financial crisis it caused.

[rev_miesse]

-$50 is a LIE. $70 is a LIE. $28 is CORRECT.

Posted by dburfears at 07:37 PM : Dec 20, 2008

You''re damned right its a lie. Check this out...

http://buelahman.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/tax-incentives-for-tennessee-vw-plant-total-577-million/

From the article- n continuing coverage from previous editions of Daily Executive Briefing, the AP (8/30, Poovey) reported that that %u201CTennessee%u2019s financial incentives for Volkswagen (VW) to pick Chattanooga total $577.4 million, apparently the largest such offer to an automaker joining the South%u2019s lineup of assembly plants.%u201D Tennessee Economic and Community Development Commissioner Matt Kisber announced the incentives package last week, and said that %u201Che does not know if the total is a record offer to an automaker.%u201D The AP noted that a %u201Cstate report shows the German automaker%u2019s July selection of Chattanooga for the $1 billion plant that will have 2,000 employees..

A whopping $577.4 million for 2000 employees? Jumpin'' Jesus on pogo stick, that''s $288,700.00 per employee. In a regular work year that''s $138.80 per hour per employee. And the UAW folks make too much?
I say BS.

[dburfears]

This is the "big lie" spread by Fox News and the lunatic GOP Right- "$70 and hour" or $50 an hour". It''s a LIE. An independent automobile MANUFACTURERS group, Center for Automotive Research, study shows that Auto workers average $28 an hour. TWENTY EIGHT. That''s TWENTY EIGHT DOLLARS. Can you idiots spell that?

Toyota workers in Kentucky make $27 an hour. Honda workers in Ohio make $30 an hour. The GOP is LYING.

The higher hourly numbers are fabrications (LIES) made up by the GOP and their anti-union business interests. Their real goal is to break unions, return to the 1920''s where people were paid slave wages to work 12 hour shifts in dangerous jobs, and get everyone else working for MINIMUM WAGE. All so they can make more money.

$50 is a LIE. $70 is a LIE. $28 is CORRECT.


The GOP in the South is in the pocket of FOREIGN AUTO COMPANIES who are being bailed out by their own governments while they get HUGE TAX SUBSIDIES from the southern US states.

The GOP in the South is full of traitors who are CASHING IN from foreign auto companies while advocating the destruction of American industry.

The GOP in the south will not be happy until American workers make minimum wage or less in foreign auto manufacturing sweat shops. Once they kill the unions, the foreign auto companies will no longer have to hold up their wages to keep the unions out. Wages will drop everywhere and the GOP in the South will get more "donations" from their FOREIGN MASTERS. Traitors.

[cmalone24]

This is for Cathrate!!! So youre telling me your crappy rice burner at 320 horsepower can match a Corvette Z06 500 HP HA HA bring it on.

Here is the info on the 94 stock Supras

For the export model (America/Europe) Toyota upgraded the Supra turbo''s engine (smaller, steel wheeled turbochargers, bigger fuel injectors, etc.). This increased the power output to 320 hp (240 kW/320 PS) at 5600 rpm and 315 ft7lb (427 N7m) at 4000 rpm. The turbocharged variant could achieve 0%u201360 mph in as low as 4.6 seconds and 1/4 mile (402 m) in 13.1 seconds at 109 mph (175 km/h)

[tbbaot]

The government should have insisted that Gm file chapter 11 bankruptcy so they can get the union monkey off their backs. As far as people not wanting to buy a car from a bankrupt company that could have been easily solved by the government. They only had to back up the warranty. Now GM will still have the union leaches to deal with.

[jsd330]

FloyZeppd $60 for running an air tool, I''ll bet you and a lot of other people would like to be making that to. If you could keep up with the line speed, standing the whole shift, 30 min for lunch and 2 12 min breaks, and should you have to go to the restroom, you have to wait for someone to take your place and you only get about 10 min for that, depending on how far away the restroom is.
As for you calling workers drunks, which it seems like you bring up in all your posts, one plant you saw on tv doesn''t mean all plants are the same. The plant I worked in if you came to work and you had been drinking , your forman sent you to the nurse for a breathilizer and if you were above the limit and it was lower then the DUI limit, you were immediatly sent home without pay. If it continued you were fired.And I guarentee you after that clip on tv heads rolled at plant. The big 3 nor the UAW condone drinking on the job.

[chicotrainguy]

Nowhere in the hullabaloo over the Detroit bailout has anyone offered anything close to an historical perspective. Read David Halberstam''s book "The Reckoning" (1986), especially starting page 311, re: W. Edwards Deming, the legendary American quality control and management genius whom Detroit ignored and summarily dismissed after WWII. He went over to Japan and taught them how to manage car companies and build quality cars!!!Halberstam goes into depth on complete US and Japanese auto industry history. Detroit''s attitude over MANY DECADES (and CURRENTLY) can be summarized in one word: ARROGANCE! ...plus, TOTAL lack of foresight for years! Henry Ford I deteriorated in old age to a senile nut case. He destroyed his son Edsel. Henry Ford II was a certifiable multi-millionaire ***. I''m 75 yrs old, with a LONG memory; bought/drove/put up with Detroit *** for DECADES. FORD for years meant "Fix-Or-Repair-Daily". ...or "Found-On-Road-Dead". Common advice was, "Never buy a vehicle made on Monday or Friday". Now I wouldn''t touch a Detroit product! Our family has FOUR Toyota''s. Next is a Prius. These moron CEO''s from the Big Three and the UAW in Congressional hearings are paying through the nose for decades of gross stupidity and DO NOT deserve any BAIL-OUT!!! Chapter 11 for all of them will result in somebody with brains (Toyota?) buying Big Three assets and converting their assembly lines, tooling, QC, labor, AND corporate culture into a whole new world of viability.

[chicotrainguy]

Nowhere in the hullabaloo over the Detroit bailout has anyone offered anything close to an historical perspective. Read David Halberstam''s book "The Reckoning" (1986), especially starting page 311, re: W. Edwards Deming, the legendary American quality control and management genius whom Detroit ignored and summarily dismissed after WWII. He went over to Japan and taught them how to manage car companies and build quality cars!!!Halberstam goes into depth on complete US and Japanese auto industry history. Detroit''s attitude over MANY DECADES (and CURRENTLY) can be summarized in one word: ARROGANCE! ...plus, TOTAL lack of foresight for years! Henry Ford I deteriorated in old age to a senile nut case. He destroyed his son Edsel. Henry Ford II was a certifiable multi-millionaire ***. I''m 75 yrs old, with a LONG memory; bought/drove/put up with Detroit *** for DECADES. FORD for years meant "Fix-Or-Repair-Daily". ...or "Found-On-Road-Dead". Common advice was, "Never buy a vehicle made on Monday or Friday". Now I wouldn''t touch a Detroit product! Our family has FOUR Toyota''s. Next is a Prius. These moron CEO''s from the Big Three and the UAW in Congressional hearings are paying through the nose for decades of gross stupidity and DO NOT deserve any BAIL-OUT!!! Chapter 11 for all of them will result in somebody with brains (Toyota?) buying Big Three assets and converting their assembly lines, tooling, QC, labor, AND corporate culture into a whole new world of viability.

[chicotrainguy]

Nowhere in the hullabaloo over the Detroit bailout has anyone offered anything close to an historical perspective. Read David Halberstam''s book "The Reckoning" (1986), especially starting page 311, re: W. Edwards Deming, the legendary American quality control and management genius whom Detroit ignored and summarily dismissed after WWII. He went over to Japan and taught them how to manage car companies and build quality cars!!!Halberstam goes into depth on complete US and Japanese auto industry history. Detroit''s attitude over MANY DECADES (and CURRENTLY) can be summarized in one word: ARROGANCE! ...plus, TOTAL lack of foresight for years! Henry Ford I deteriorated in old age to a senile nut case. He destroyed his son Edsel. Henry Ford II was a certifiable multi-millionaire ***. I''m 75 yrs old, with a LONG memory; bought/drove/put up with Detroit *** for DECADES. FORD for years meant "Fix-Or-Repair-Daily". ...or "Found-On-Road-Dead". Common advice was, "Never buy a vehicle made on Monday or Friday". Now I wouldn''t touch a Detroit product! Our family has FOUR Toyota''s. Next is a Prius. These moron CEO''s from the Big Three and the UAW in Congressional hearings are paying through the nose for decades of gross stupidity and DO NOT deserve any BAIL-OUT!!! Chapter 11 for all of them will result in somebody with brains (Toyota?) buying Big Three assets and converting their assembly lines, tooling, QC, labor, AND corporate culture into a whole new world of viability.

[stan821]

Clathrate, maybe you drive "extremely aggressively", but that''s not such a good idea for the average American. Do we need to feel like each trip somewhere is a virtual NASCAR event?

[hunterdon6]

I agree on the brake comment, American cars don''t have all that good brakes. But I had a VW once that had terrible brakes. I have a 94 Saturn with 215,000 miles and it just keeps going. If you do regular maintenance on a vehicle, it will last.

[clathrate]

travel a lot for my work so I drive a lot of rentals. The differences in the way american and foreign cars drive and feel is at the most minimul but generally not noticeable. Theonly real differences are in the trim level.


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Posted by endurorob

You must not be pushing your vehicle very hard. I drive extremely aggressively, and I quickly find the liitations of most vehicles. American cars in general have undersized brakes (or drum rears), and have soft, wimpy handling.

So sure, Buicks are comfy grandma-mobiles...but they aren''t good for much more than hauling groceries at 30 mph.

My ''Ru on the other hand handled like it was glued to the pavement, got great gas mileage, and was an absolute gem on snow and ice. I''ve towed an 87'' Chevy Caprice with it...yeah I burned some clutch but it had torque to spare, and stiff unibody frame.

I love American trucks but American cars? Get outta here!

[clathrate]

Most just do it to defend there poor purchase of a import.

Again 2008 not 1908 or 1980


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Posted by steve4422

My ''94 Supra will destroy ANY stock Detroit made car in a roadrace (well, maybe a Shelby Cobra could, but that''s from the era when Ford actually made good stuff). A real street racer comes with 6 speed manual, rear wheel drive, and turbos that don''t *** out at 50k miles (hello Thunderbird).

And I''ve never had anything other than minor issues with Subarus or Hondas.

American cars and watercooled VW''s are junk.

[clathrate]

I still see a bunch of older Domestics driving around Michigan.

AGAIN 2008 not 1908 or 1980


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Posted by steve4422

I think that''s the point. You won''t see that phenomenon much anywhere else in America, because Detroit long ago decided to stop building timeless classics and instead shifted to building classless timebombs.