Can Stop-Loss Be Stopped?

Military Returns Troops To War After They've Completed Tours, Even After They've Left Active Duty

(CBS) 

[chad55555]

Being a combat veteran,I feel it not right to keep sending people back and back. This is America it should be fair for everyone. SO START THE DRAFT AGAIN AND MAKE IT FAIR FOR ALL TO SERVE. STOP LOSS JUST MEANS AMERICA STOPPED BEING FAIR TO SOME AMERICANS.I DID NOT AGREE WITH VIETNAM BUT WENT BECAUSE IT WAS MY DUTY AS AN AMERICAN. GET THE DRAFT STARTED FIND OUT WHO THE COWARDS ARE MAKE IT FAIR FOR ALL.

[antizion]

If they want to be slaves let them be slaves. They have guns, if they want to break free let them do that.

It is the chains of the mind that bind, not the chains of the wrist. The draft is unconstitutional, they swore to uphold the constitution against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. So they should.

There is not shortage of stupid people that will join the military and fight for the interests of the United States of Israel.

[sparkbox]

It''s all in the enlistment contract, the part that says, "In the event of war, my enlistment in the armed forces continues until six (6) months after the war ends."

And just how is the end of the war determined?
By official proclamation?
A predetermined death toll?
A certain amount of financial gains made by government contractors?
Or the completion of our government''s agenda to install democratic form of rule in every little oil nation?

[goarmy16]

My Brother joined the Army strictly so he and his wife could go to college, although he has found he loves this job, and that maybe sighning up again is an option, he has a family and a child who he misses very much and he wants to be more involved in his sons life and if they force him to stay that wont be an option, its very uppsetting.

[combatvet03]

So now we recruit mercenaries. I suppose to open the draft would be the last tell that the previous eight years of Bush and the other idiots have been a cancer on our country. I am proud to be a veteran, something else George W. Bush cannot claim as an accomplishment.

[txlakeside]

The Shrub stated on the deck of the Aircraft carrier .... MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Bush and Cheney both need to be tried for War Crimes! They are no better than Nixon and they both lied through their teeth! Many Americans are ashamed of them more than they are Nixon!

[longtree-2009]

bring back the draft if we wish to remain a dominant world power. seems like many americans want the usa to become involved in many situations around the world be it hunger, disease, genocide, and so forth. to be taken seriously, the usa needs a large standing military. if, for example, china and north korea were to invade south korea, our all volunteer military could not defend south korea in a conventional war against china. our military today is made up of mostly mercenaries who are volunteers who were paid a bonus to enlist. that is a mercenary. bring back the draft, with no exemptions, with the draft tour being 4 years active duty right out of high school or any drop outs at age 17. have served twice, never received a bonus and wouldn''t want one if it were offered. it is about duty, honor, country. if no one can roger that, it is the end of the usa.

[watch369]

This is the Republican WAY - Bail out the Richies and let the others Suffer.

They are doing it to the Auto industry Now too.

[rudy6543]

it is about duty, honor, country. if no one can roger that, it is the end of the usa.


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Posted by longtree at 10:26 AM

Then go enlist, sweety.

[rudy6543]

Posted by rangerdahl at 10:34 AM

Whoooooo Careeeeees???????

Now do another rant.

[Meg003]

The stop-loss policy is hurting recruiting whether the military realizes it or not. No one likes uncertainty, and when it is your whole life that is uncertain, people stop and reconsider. How can a young person make any kind of plans when they cannot know when they will be released from service?

[Meg003]

SHUTUP HETUP

[mediawatch50]

Compare the reality of this story with the other stories that tell us that the military consistently meets its'' recruiting goals. Confused? Here is the explanation:

When it becomes apparent that a recruiting goal cannot be met, the goal is changed to the number that allows the goal to be reached. That way, the military never "fails" to meet its'' goal. There are two reasons why this is done: 1. It ensures that the officers and enlisted folks in the recruiting command get good fitness reports/evaluations. 2. It allows for "patriotic" upbeat stories about how fine young people are flocking to the military in droves.

Isn''t living in a country where propaganda is just a routine part of doing business fun?

[babooph]

With the middle class destroyed,there will be no problem getting cannon fodder to protect Israel & war on Islam-the young men will enlist to eat -knowing they are pawns.

[pirmin3]

stop-loss is just a form of the draft using a restricted pool of trained soldiers as the draftees. I think it sucks big time!!

[leftywinger]

,,,...it is about duty, honor, country. if no one can roger that, it is the end of the usa....,,,,

Just as there is "good" and "bad" cholesteral, so too there is good and bad pride. The war in Iraq has never been about duty, honor, country. What it has been about is the collective ego of the Bush administration, and their refusal to admit the war was a mistake from the very start. Unfortunately, our servicemen continue to pay the price as years and years of their lives roll by with no end in sight to this pointless conflict. Nicholas II did the same thing to the Russian military in World War I, --a war the Russians could have easily stayed out of had it not been for ego of the Tsar. We all know what happened next in 1917...

[sincity_q]

''Stop-Loss'' was a betrayal of the American soldier. In another day when there was a draft, it may have found a use but in a modern, professional army where each is a volunteer who signs a contract, it is entirely counterproductive. Moral is damaged and new enlistments drop. To top that off, a badly wounded soldier coming home in pieces is threatened by the DoD to pay for lost or damaged issue. those requiring long term care are run through the VA meatgrinder where benefits are handed out by uncaring beancounters.

Of course, when the economy is bad and jobs are scarce... there''s no shortage of new voluteers.

[walt1944-2009]

Years ago, my daughter was toying with the idea of joining the military because some air-head recruiter told her all the "benefits" she would get if she signed up!

I told her it was a BAD, BAD idea, and she didn''t join!

It may have been unpatriotic of me, but I was a parent FIRST, which is NOT what the federal government is. To the military and the government, our kids are "cannon-fodder" and if they do survive thru their enlistment, they come out either psychotic, losing a limb, or their life!

And those who do make it thru their enlistment, get lousy medical care (if any), are never fully integrated back into civilian life, and get SHAFTED on those "benefits" by both the military and the government.

So for those of you out there thinking about enlisting because you can''t find a job; really do some serious thinking about it!

THINK HARD!!!

SIG HEIL, THINK OF ME AS YOUR "DADDY" INSTEAD OF COMMANDER IN CHIEF!!!, BUSH!!!

[andrew_693]

walt, that was the most patriotic thing you ever did. Why sign up for a war that has nothing to do with our freedoms.

[donevis-2009]

It''s way past time to put a stop to this wasteful war and start bring these people home. We all know we were lied to and mislead so as to provided profits and a looting of our treasury by the hawks. Hopefully our new administration will be able to change the direction of this flow of money to where its really needed. Our Vets care and help should be at the top of the Military spending list, not treated like throw aways. It''s a terrible thing to witness a Vet being ignorned and labled a sacrafice of war insinuating they''re beyond help. "God Speed USA"

[hober_mallow]

Another example of the fine analysis and planning from the imbeciles in the Bush white house.

[McHineguy]

War is H*** especially when the folks back home tell you its worthless or wrong. even when you see the good you are doing, its hard to feel good about it because someone back home says you are doing eveil things. The troops you fight beside become life long friends because they understand what you go through.

Stop loss keeps a team together so its less likely that one of our team will be hurt or killed. So, by staying a few extra months, it makes it more certain that everyone gets to go home.

But for what? The folks back home still talk like they know better than anyone else. They know everything cuase they see it on the evening news.

[earache4]

Pentagon:

"Serve until you die!!! And no, you can''t use the Walter Reed Hospital until you sign a reinlistment...right there on the dotted line....use the hand that isn''t blown off...."

[chadly1044]

I think that stop-loss should be removed from the contract. If they held their commitment then they are done. besides, it states that their enlistment is extended till a time there is no war. If I remember correctly, President Bush declared victory a long time ago. So... Mr. President, they can leave now...right?

[earache4]

Replace every veteran forced to served 4 terms with a congressman that voted for the Iraqi war. That would solve 2 problems, shorter tours and fewer stupid congressmen...

[hermitdave]

Stop Loss for the Bush illegal crusade in Iraq. If you live you should at least get free gas from EXXON for the rest of your life because that is what your buddies died and were maimed for.

[gi_joe_]

My toe is gone as well as my pinky finger. I want to go fight my 6th term in Iraq.

[pvperson]

Bring back the draft and stop making a few pay the price. This war drags on because not enough neo-cons are involved and by involved I mean they don''t have their children in harms way. A draft would put the cost on a more balanced level, no deferments to be used by the rich, everybody''s kid goes.

Want to bet it would end quick?

[pvperson]

There have been many reports on the increase in mental illness from vets, "GI-Joe" may be a perfect example.

[Markus]

Bring the draft back is right on the money.Although I know some of today''s 18,19,20 and 21 year olds I wouldn''t trust driving a lawn tractor.I will never again vote for a republican candidate for any office..................NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

[wba350]

Where were the comments from the troops themselves? Mothers worry and agonize about their sons and daughters in harm''s way and mourn their loss when that occurs, but Mrs. Berlinrut''s son serves under circumstances to which he agreed. Mrs. Castro''s loss is no more or less "just" than the loss sustained by the mother who might have lost her son, instead, without the policy.

Stop-Loss is NOT "fine print.%u201D I can%u2019t imagine anyone signing up without understanding the details. An enlistment contract is a life-and-death matter. As pointed out in the story, Vietnam was the EXCEPTION to the rule. Left unsaid was that personnel replacements in Vietnam seriously reduced combat effectiveness and increased casualties.

Ms Smith notes that conditions (rising enlistments, etc.) may make Stop-Loss "less necessary," meaning that, in spite of the emotional, victim-flavored tone of the segment, the policy is needed.

Veterans will tell you that combat service is more about your comrades than about principle or even country. To support your comrades-in-arms is, ultimately, what makes the sacrifice worthwhile. A flawed policy called Stop-Loss is a way to increase the effectiveness of combat units and, thereby, the survival of its members.

Mrs. Berlinrut, no one who serves in combat is ever "the same person that he was!"

[summarex]

When I was younger I spoke to a recruiter who told me that you signed up and served out your enlistment. Once you left there was a clause in the contract that said you could be reactivated but that was something that wouldn''t happen unless WW3 broke out. All the kids were told the same thing by virtually all the recruiters.

I wonder how many people have been defrauded like this.

[cbsblogger]

We need a military service draft that applies for all Americans, regardless of their social status so as to equalize the current unfair playing field that exists in the USA.

We have a ethnic segment of the USA that represents maybe 2% of the population but holds probably 40-50 percent of the elite positions. This same segment that is so highly OVER-represented in the elite positions coincidentally is highly UNDER-represented in our volunteered military.

In Israel every citizen M/F is required to serve and every citizen is put at risk in times of war. This should be the policy in the USA as well.

[summarex]

I really think it starts with the parents. If your kid joins up at a time like this, you have failed as a parent pure and simple.

[helloall34]

I lost a nephew in this war about 5 years ago. It''s
hard to believe it has been that long. Since day 1
of this "war" I have said victory was impossible
because we did not have a clear goal of what victory
was. This is still true today. Unfortunately, this was has been a complete waste. Even Bush himself now looks back and wishes it never happened. It''s a lesson that we will be paying for for generations to come. This is the second time in our country''s recent history that we entered into a war unprovoked to try a push our way of life on another country. Hopefully there won''t be a third time.

[navyjimfl]

Bring back the draft....every american should participate in our defense

[summarex]

THIS IS NOT A JOKE. IT WORKS

Actually here''s some good advice for parents. If you really want to keep your boy out of the service, tell him they are all homosexuals. It works! No kidding. Of course that might be hard if you were in the service yourself. If that''s the case, tell the kid it was different your day. You might be a little embarrassed if you''re a lefty, but keeping your kid safe is more important, isn''t it.

Keeping girls out is a little more difficult but it revolves around convincing them that they will be used as ****** for the men or some such nonsense.

As with the boys you keep them out long enough to get them established in something else like college or a worthwhile job.

[gi_joe_]

UPDATE: Our efforts to compel Senator Barack Obama to produce a valid birth certificate in order to prove that he is constitutionally eligible to be President of the United States ARE TAKING OFF!

[carp714]

If youre child would like to join the military, and most parents tell their kids they can be anything they want to be, you would tell them that the army is all homosexuals so they wouldnt join? And on top of that if we didnt have an all volunteer army youre kids would be in a draft, or like other countries would be obligated to military service. pathetic!

[toolmangler-2009]

Actually here''''s some good advice for parents. If you really want to keep your boy out of the service, tell him they are all homosexuals. It works! No kidding. Of course that might be hard if you were in the service yourself. If that''''s the case, tell the kid it was different your day. You might be a little embarrassed if you''''re a lefty, but keeping your kid safe is more important, isn''''t it.

Keeping girls out is a little more difficult but it revolves around convincing them that they will be used as ****** for the men or some such nonsense.

As with the boys you keep them out long enough to get them established in something else like college or a worthwhile job.
Posted by summarex at 03:57 PM : Dec 07, 2008




You sell out cheap don''t you? I won''t lie to keep my child from serving. Shouldn''t the choice be theirs anyway? After all they are the ones putting their lives on the line for you, but you are not worthy of it. Truth means nothing to you.....

[carp714]

If you want to know, I have served 21 years for our country and I am no sellout, now youre child has a choice if he or she wants to join do not give them that impression of our soldiers losing their lives over in a foriegn country.

[osiod9]

It''s hard to believe someone would make such a monumental decision as joining the military without reading the fine print and asking lots of questions. I knew several people who joined the National Guard before we invaded Iraq. They all thought they could play soldier on the weekend, get their free college education, and be done with it. Surprise, surprise. Should have read the fine print.

Anna Berlinrut should shut-up and take her signs and go home.

[mary227]

Stop-Loss Story by Tracy Smith.
While I''m glad that you did a story on this subject, presenting the views of the Heritage Foundation as representing the "objective" reasons for stop-loss was basically presenting a spokesman for the administration. The real reasons for continuing to use stop loss is far more complex and would have required much more honesty, financial commitment, and political risk taking than the Bush administration was willing to take on.
Stop loss is one thing in a Crisis situation or a non-voluntary war like the first and second WORLD wars....but for this war, started voluntarily and peremptorily that is beginning it''s 6th yr., it is inexcusable. Like Vietnam, the policy should be much more limited, and then the responsibility for having enough trained soldiers is tranferred off the backs of these few enlistees, to the government who has to increase forces anyway they can.....from increasing pay and benefits to attract more up to and including a draft. This administration could have done this. A story like this is not complete without going to those independent groups to cover the true reasons Why the government did not do so.
My feeling is if the current administration had been more honest with the public and required more from a greater number of its citizens then the issue of the war there would have been an outcry for accountability that this administration wanted to avoid at all cost....and so They and they alone continue to put this cost on the few.

[fredflinsto2]

Another example of: you should have read the fine print. And, never sign anything unless you understand every word of the contract. Their stupidity is not our problem. they signed it, they are stuck with the contract they signed. too bad, so sad.

[tincup356]

Sad thing is these fine young men and women are dieing because we are involved in conflicts we do not belong to be fighting.Both wars are products of lies and deception.The 911 investigation was a sham at best, written like a b movie script.the congressional investigation was very sloppy and only had one focus,what our government wanted the people to believe, so they do do the first "we need to act fast action",since then it has meant trouble when they say , ACT QUICKLY, the lies are rolling.If people haven''t figured it out yet, the only thing our government does is lie , and it comes from both sides of the isle.Most people would respond ...our government could not have been involved ,Americans were killed and NYC damaged badly....people our government in Washington follows the lobby dollar.they are opening up the treasury for billions and stealing it, why would a few American live mean anything to them? Small price to pay to change the wealth of the world and eliminate mouths to feed, and eliminate a whole class of people at the same time. The big question is...when the masses are broke, jobless, and homeless,...will these same young American soldiers fire on them when the masses march on Washington?Will they uphold the constitution and defend the peoples rights..or follow the treasonous government that leads them?

[fredflinsto2]

If you want to know, I have served 21 years for our country and I am no sellout, now youre child has a choice if he or she wants to join do not give them that impression of our soldiers losing their lives over in a foriegn country.


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Posted by carp714 at 05:04 PM : Dec 07, 2008


But they are losing their lives in a foreign country, so not telling them that, would be lying by ommission

[misha128-2009]

UPDATE: Our efforts to compel Senator Barack Obama to produce a valid birth certificate in order to prove that he is constitutionally eligible to be President of the United States ARE TAKING OFF!


Article 2, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States, states, "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Posted by GI_Joe_ at 04:27 PM : Dec 07, 2008

The head of the appropriate office in Hawaii has already publicly confirmed the existence and authenticity of the document -- case closed.

[donbl1]

This concern over stop loss is a red herring for the antiwar group.

In the all volunteer force, recruits understand the possibility of stoploss and what it would mean.

Since Iraq is now basically won, it is up to Obama to lose it...... he won''t touch it.

[misha128-2009]

Only Bush can lose Bush''s war of choice -- took longer than WWII with and incompetent plan that was impossible to achieve. Bush lost the war when he started the war. The soldiers have valiantly delivered the possible -- but Bush''s plan never possible and was always an administrative failure and not a military one.

[lanntair-2009]

Part 1 of 2. I am a former Army officer, so I appreciate the challenge of the Army''s current mission and needs. As much as I respect our army, however, HRC is notorious for making misrepresentations to new recruits, enlisted soldiers, and career officers alike when it comes to personnel. Just one example: not long ago, CBS News published a story on Army recruiters who had been recorded making false statements to high school recruits. After simply making an appointment with one recruiter, these young men were told that they should report for Basic training, and if they didn''t like the Army, then they could just tell their chaplain during Basic, and they''d be sent home. Why would an Army sergeant make such a blatantly untrue representation? Because they''re paid a bonus for each new recruit who simply reports for basic training. The Marines do things differently. Their recruiters are paid a bonus for each recruit who finishes basic training, so that this type of misconduct is not encouraged. So what do you think happened to the recruiter when his gross misconduct was discovered? The Army promoted him, then put him in charge of a whole region of recruiters out west. After the incident became public, the Army was asked whether it would reconsider its recruiter incentives. HRC%u2019s obtuse response: "we have no plans to change our recruiting policy." This is just one example, Osiod9. If you think HRC plays by the rules when it comes to personnel, then my friend, you have no idea.