Does God Run Homeland Security?

Atheist Group Sues Kentucky Over Law Saying Safety Cannot Be Achieved Without God

(AP)  A group of atheists filed a lawsuit Tuesday seeking to remove part of a state anti-terrorism law that requires Kentucky's Office of Homeland Security to acknowledge it can't keep the state safe without God's help.

American Atheists Inc. sued in state court over a 2002 law that stresses God's role in Kentucky's homeland security alongside the military, police agencies and health departments.

Of particular concern is a 2006 clause requiring the Office of Homeland Security to post a plaque that says the safety and security of the state "cannot be achieved apart from reliance upon almighty God" and to stress that fact through training and educational materials.

The plaque, posted at the Kentucky Emergency Operations Center in Frankfort, includes the Bible verse: "Except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain."

"It is one of the most egregiously and breathtakingly unconstitutional actions by a state legislature that I've ever seen," said Edwin F. Kagin, national legal director of Parsippany, N.J.-based American Atheists Inc. The group claims the law violates both the state and U.S. constitutions.

But Democratic state Rep. Tom Riner, a Baptist minister from Louisville, said he considers it vitally important to acknowledge God's role in protecting Kentucky and the nation.

"No government by itself can guarantee perfect security," Riner said. "There will always be this opposition to the acknowledgment of divine providence, but this is a foundational understanding of what America is."

Kentucky has been at the center of a series of legal battles involving religious issues in recent years, most involving displays of the Ten Commandments in public buildings. One case went to the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled in 2005 that such displays inside courthouses in two counties were unconstitutional.

Kentucky isn't the only state dealing with religious issues, but Ed Buckner, president of American Atheists, said it's alone in officially enlisting God in homeland security.

"I'm not aware of any other state or commonwealth that is attempting to dump their clear responsibility for protecting their citizens onto God or any other mythological creature," Buckner said.

State Rep. David Floyd, R-Bardstown, said the preamble to the Kentucky constitution references a people "grateful to almighty God," so he said he sees no constitutional violation in enlisting God in the state's homeland security efforts.

"God help us if we don't," he said.

[smurfcrusher]

Perhaps they are SO inept, it WOULD take a miracle to keep them safe.

Personally, I prefer competence.

[earache4]

Does God Run Homeland Security?

AHHH, but WHICH God? The Jewish God? The Muslim God? The Christian God? The Hindu God? The God of thunder? The God of Rock and Roll?

[smurfcrusher]

Nothing like Faith-Based security to keep things exciting in Kentucky.

Methinks they''ve had a bit too much of that burbon whiskey to do their jobs.

If God is responsible, I guess it''s God''s will if terrorists attack. Pretty clever way to pass the buck!

Speaking of which, if they think God is doing security detail, maybe all salaries should be paid to charities.
Preferably, ones that promote the separation of church and state.

[hatesthecolt]

Nothing like Faith-Based security to keep things exciting in Kentucky.

Methinks they''''ve had a bit too much of that burbon whiskey to do their jobs.

If God is responsible, I guess it''''s God''''s will if terrorists attack. Pretty clever way to pass the buck!

Speaking of which, if they think God is doing security detail, maybe all salaries should be paid to charities.
Preferably, ones that promote the separation of church and state.

Posted by smurfcrusher

It is, after all, Kentucky.

[earache4]

So God came up with the color alert system? Green for safe, Yellow for caution, Red for dangerous, and White for hallowed.....

[jmdintpa]

# DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
# DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has *** with someone else''s husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
# MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
# LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman''s period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
# MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.

[cariboubarbi]

Why didn''t God protect us from George Bush?

[centerfall94]

Yea, Kentucky, one of those red states that voted for McSame. Pathetic.

[dburfears]

So all that money we spent on Bush''s defense and security contractor friends to pay them for supposed "Homeland Security" was wasted! God was all we needed!

This fundamentalist BS is enough to turn any SANE Christian atheist.

[barbaram99]

God does not. But people do. True we have sep of church and state. I would rather see the bible verses over the messy tagging every where. Ye don''t have to read it if ye wish not.

[pvperson]

After all, Kentucky IS one of the most backward of the United States, aren''t they known as the "Keep Marriage in the Family" state?

Was it good for you, sistermomma?

[cooked46]

CaribouBarbi: I''m stunned by your comment. In eight words, your question crystallizes an unanswerable refutation of the nonsensical superstition that the right wing christian fanatic hatemonger wackos dish out day after week after month after year after century. But of course they''re not listening, unfortunately. They''re too busy deluding themselves that "god" is their personal property, and his address is the back pocket of the likes of Robertson, Parsley, Hagee, or any number of such life forms.

[truthislife1]

I wonder if the Atheist is gonna pray they win in court.

[truthislife1]

I''m not aware of any other state or commonwealth that is attempting to dump their clear responsibility for protecting their citizens onto God or any other mythological creature.

Ed Buckner, president, American Atheists

God is a myth now. Wow, sure see a lot of water in the oceans still, pretty big flood.

[antizion]

People from that part of the US are pound for pound some of the dumbest people on Earth - bar none.

[thickredhair]

send kentucky a copy of the constitution, drop one off at bush''s ranch too, maybe if he reads it really slowly he''ll figure out why he screwed the country over

[antizion]

Notice how all the rabid magical thinking believers are functionally illiterate, argue utter nonsense devoid of all logic, reason and accountability?

[magoo2u1]

Well, they sure set themselves up for when they fail. Now they can claim they didn''t make any mistakes, if something happens it''s because the people didn''t pray hard enough or the irrefutable "God willed it". Can''t blame me when it was all god''s work. Lord knows the far right wing of the far right wing party believes god is a killer. He caused the Tsunami, Katrina, Mt St Helens and will soon cover Florida in frogs and hail for allowing a gay day at Disney.

[lemonskink]

Yes, according to the wacked-out Republican Extremo Bush Lamic Cult, God does run Homeland Security, as well as protect them from the evils of terrorism. Intelligent people know better though, and often times find them amusing.

[glenn_lewis]

The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

[liberalme]

Does God Run Homeland Security?

Only if he''s talked to the nut job in the White house, but first Bush has to see Putins soul, only then will Bush allow God to run anything, after all, Bush has now surpassed God.

[flexsf]

I don''t subscribe to the Jesus Christ religion, but I hold respect for their beliefs as long as they show respect towards everybody who doesn''t believe the same. With that said, the homeland security plaque stating god as a protector is dumb! It''s also a bit scary that the state is imposing a religious belief into it''s government.

[ausus-2009]

Athiests have their gods, they just don''t call them that. They have the god of global warming, the god of socialism, the god of free universal health care, the god of enforcing various UN mandates, the god of high taxation, the god of government censorship of the media and the god of right to ban somebody from practicing or even mentioning their religion.

They may think my God is a myth and I think most of theirs are.

[susanhelit]

Boy, I want to work there! I can screw up however I like - and point the finger at God messing it up. Can''t keep the place safe without God, so I''m totally off the hook!

Total nonsense - and a nice violation of our Constitution - and a nice intrusion of religion into our government - exactly what the terrorists are looking to do - put religion into all the governments of the world. They differ merely on which God they believe in.

[lemonskink]

Does it really make anyone wonder why the Republican Party is being destroyed and the Democrats scream to landslide victories?

[lemonskink]

Does it really make anyone wonder why the Republican Party is being destroyed and the Democrats scream to landslide victories?

[kansas1946]

Kentucky''s Office of Homeland Security to acknowledge it can''t keep the state safe without God''s help.
**************************
***????

[psk123-2009]

It does not bother me that people practice their faith as they wish to do so. But please, keep it private, between YOURSELF and your God. I do not want someone else''s religious belifes pushed into my secular life. I also do not want someone else''s religious rules made into my secular laws.

[yeswedid]

dltgold: Good post. It is a display of their hypocrisy for sure.

[incog-nito]

"No government by itself can guarantee perfect security," Riner said.

But with God''s self, apparently you CAN have perfect security.

[cyberdjs4]

Guys! It''s Kentucky.
I''d expect nothing less from this Southern state.

[biggestbtc]

This is not what the Founding Fathers meant when they wrote of separation of church and state in the Constitution. They did not intend a complete divorce of religion and government. Washington himself said that the government could not survive without religious principles. What we see here is not a matter of separation of church and state; it is denial of reality.

[element51]

sockpuppet4.....Your claim that all atheists are animals is as absurd as anything I have ever heard. How do you know that we don''t have a soul? Just because we do not believe in a fantasy god that lives up in the sky does not mean that we are soul less. I have been an atheist for over 40 years and in all that time I have never harmed another human being. I have worked and paid my taxes and raised a family and have never asked the government for anything. My kids are normal and have made good lives for themselves. Take a look back at the history of religion and you''ll see enough blood to fill an ocean. Religion was created by ignorant men who wanted a way to control the people and they did a good job of coming up with all kinds of myths to use. If you want to worship an invisable god I have no problem with that. In fact I would fight for your right to do so. But when you turn to me and insult me because I don''t agree with you then I am offended. And think about this....if it weren''t for religion there would be no war and no killing because there wouldn''t be anything to hate each other about.

[yeswedid]

And think about this....if it weren''''t for religion there would be no war and no killing because there wouldn''''t be anything to hate each other about.

Posted by Element51 at 09:43 PM : Dec 02, 2008
------------------------------------------
Right on!!!

[element51]

ausus....Your post made me laugh. All the things you list are things created by man. They are not atheist gods. If you have a problem with the things you listed why don''t you ask your God to make them all go away? If He has the power that you claim he does it should be no problem. You mention universal health care. Wouldn''t it be terrible for little children to be guaranteed health care when they are gravely ill? Much better to just let them die, right? And old people should not be cared for either. After all, they don''t produce wealth for the Corporation God do they? And please tell me, who is trying to take away your right to worship as you please? What you have listed is a litney of things that the right wing whacko extremist have made up to whine about. Did you get all this stuff from Rush Limbaugh or Karl Rove?

[billpl-2009]

"it makes one wonder what the real reason is for publicly displaying this plaque , i mean what is the message they (the religous reich) want to send?"--Posted by dltgold

yup
"stupid is what stupid does"

[zwaggsy]

Religion is usually used as an excuse to commit various crimes/atrocities & justify it! As such even without religion humans would still be killing each other for good old fashioned greed, lust, prejudice etc etc.

[indivthinker]

"Athiest group sues Kentucky over law saying safety cannot be achieved without God"

Maybe they should also take the mention of God out of the Declaration of Independence, the Emancipation Proclamation, our money, our pledge (though that was not found in the original draft), our Presidential Inaugural addresses (swearing on a Bible), pretty much every Presidential letter or speech, and every other important document in the US.

Even the Constitution has Lord in it. It is found in "the year of our Lord" (AD). God is everywhere. It has shaped our society for 2000 years. Everything from literature to art to history has God in it.

Maybe we should also tell our kids that Christmas is about Santa Claus and presents (instead of the celebration of the birth of Jesus), Easter is about getting a day off school (on Good Friday, the memorial death of Jesus'' death), and Thanksgiving is just a day to eat turkey (instead of remembering the blessings that God has given us through community and prosperity).

To every athiest, perhaps you should work not have a "day of rest" on Sunday. Perhaps you should not celebrate any Christian holiday. You should also not be forced to recognize the fact that 95% of the United States Presidents were Christians, Unitarians, Deists, or other God believing fellows.

Perhaps athiests should figure it out: our society is built AROUND God.

[ausus-2009]

dltgold,

If they weren''t Christian, our Founding Fathers were at least Deists. That is, they had a belief in God. It might not have been conventional in every case, but it was there. When they wrote the First Amendment it was about freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.

To say they did not anticipate the diversity of religion is absurd as many of the early European settlers of North America were from non-mainstream religions fleeing persecution from the major religions of Europe.

As to taking the Constitution literally, and the First Amendment in particular, I happen to also believe in freedom of the freedom of the press, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. Do you oppose those?

[ausus-2009]

Element51,

Typical, attack the messenger. I wouldn''t have a clue what Rush Limbaugh or Karl Rove has to say on the subject.

My beliefs are the result of all of the various inputs of my life including education, travel, reading, looking at and listening to the various media, etc.

You missed my point. It goes along the line of "those that believe in nothing believe in everything." I am sure you have heard that quotation before. I could have added to my list of false gods astrology, numerology, palm reading, alternative medicine and mind reading.

[indivthinker]

if it weren''''t for religion there would be no war and no killing because there wouldn''''t be anything to hate each other about.

Posted by Element51 at 09:43 PM : Dec 02, 2008

That is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. Attila the Hun did not kill because of religion. He killed because he wanted power. Hitler (though people will try and connect him with Christianity) was a sworn atheist, yet he killed Jews because he HATED them. The Soviets and Chinese have killed to contain religion, even though they were atheists and FORCED atheism on the population.

I am also 100% sure that crack dealers, serial killers, child pornographers, date rapers, prostitutes, bank robbers, etc are not ALL religious either.

The fact is, though many wars have been caused by religious people, pretty much EVERY great social event has been caused by religious folks too.

Jesus promoted charity and love.
George Washington fought against tyranny.
Abraham Lincoln abolished slavery.
Gandhi pushed for brotherhood and peace.
Martin Luther King Jr fought for civil rights.
Pope John Paul II characterized forgiveness.
Mother Teresa lived a life of humility and service.
Bono is a champion of promoting human rights and ending poverty.

All of these people were religious. Perhaps atheists should look at all of the good that religion has done instead of focusing on the bad.

[krannawitter]

indivthinker -

yes, our country has very strong ties to deism of one sort or form. It is the goal of any atheist to correct those flawed views. Especially in the area of government. God is as outdated as the white wigs worn by early presidents.

To make your case by saying 95% of presidents were diests is flawed. The office of president is hardly indicitive of the nation as a whole. If that were the case this country would be 100% male, 98% white, and 89% dead. Also, 5% of us would be assasinated. Think about that!

As for atheists not stealing your precious holidays, just remember its the christians who stole them from the pagans. Do your research and you will discover its true. I, very agnostic, do not consider myself atheist. I am actually a Buddhist. I find christmas a wonderful time. It captures the spirit of the religion and even depicts a happy, overweight man :)

Now, if you wanna be a christian thats fine. But thats your personal choice, not the country as a whole. Not everyone believes in a diety and we all have a right to equality in this country. I think you would agree that its better to keep all religion out of government as opposed to being all inclusive. ie Having 15 prayers before congress for each religion. Depicting a statue of every religions rules in a courthouse. So on and so forth.

Just accept the fact that people are different and we need a government and a public sphere of influence that is seperate from any religion.

[inventagod2]

Gods keeping a nation safe?

Guess them Kentucky doofuses would not mind asking Horus and Amun to help out... Seems many died in the name of Egyptian gods, yet we would call them ''dead'' this century...
Maybe we could include Jupiter and Hephaistos to help them fight off Allah and Arsan Duolai - oh wait, they are not accepted gods in Kentucky either...

I venture to guess any god named in Kentucky will be laughed off as archaic and silly in a few centuries anyway, so let them choose their superstitions over reality...

[indivthinker]

Posted by jmcgilvray at 10:30 PM : Dec 02, 2008

"It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible."
--George Washington

"Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
--George Washington

"If God is just, I tremble for my country."
--Thomas Jefferson

"Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God''s side, for God is always right."
--Abraham Lincoln

"You can not divorce religious belief and public service. I''ve never detected any conflict between God''s will and my political duty. If you violate one, you violate the other."
--Jimmy Carter

"Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged."
--Ronald Reagan

"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
--Ronald Reagan

[memewolf]

Everyone relax. Kentucky just needs to put the word deity in place of god. Even the atheist can''t object to that as their deity is named No God with a son/daughter named Disbelief

[tincup356]

God doesn''t run homeland security....God doesn''t make mistakes. Homeland security is a joke and we all know it, it is nothing more than another money sucking tentacle of control over the people, created by fear tactics to subdue the people, not protect them.

[edward1975-2009]

If you don''t believe that is your right, but don''t infringe upon my right to believe. This politically correct stuff is getting dumber by the minute. It allows every fringe group with a hair up their butts to try and force their agenda upon the silent majority. Maybe it''s time we stop being so silent.

[tincup356]

Hard to believe George Bush appointed himself Above the law and all , but that is what he has done for eight years now,All with the blessings of Congress.Yall remember congress dont ya? the guys WE elected, who turned traitor and start spilling the treasury to their lobby dollar buddies? I wonder how many of these fine people believe in God ,and believe truly in their hearts they have done no wrong in the eyes of God?It''s sad these same men and women took an oath sworn on a bible to do a job, and they have failed miserably.White collar ,suit and tie terrorists, guilty of treason.

[smurfcrusher]

"...Perhaps athiests should figure it out: our society is built AROUND God."

Posted by indivthinker

Actually, this country was founded on Enlightenment principles, not religious nor Christian ones.

[countslapula]

Yeah. right, indivthinker. Puritans were fleeing the same type of religious hate/dogma that you Christians cherish.