June 28, 2009
How Online Gamblers Unmasked Cheaters
60 Minutes/Washington Post Joint Investigation Questions Honesty, Security Of Gambling Sites
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Play CBS Video Video The Cheaters 60 Mintes and The Washington Post reveal how online poker players suspecting cheating were forced to successfully ferret out the cheaters themselves. Steve Kroft and Gilbert Gaul report.
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(CBS)
In the wild, wild west, when a poker player was caught cheating it was a capital offense, with the punishment quickly dispensed right across the card table. But today if you're caught cheating in the popular and lucrative world of Internet poker, you may get away scot-free.
At least that's what seems to be happening in the biggest scandal in the history of online gambling.
As 60 Minutes correspondent Steve Kroft first reported last November, a small group of people managed to cheat players out of more than $20 million.
And it would have gone undetected if it hadn't been for the players themselves, who used the Internet to root out the corruption. As a joint investigation by 60 Minutes and The Washington Post revealed, it raises new questions about the integrity and security of the shadowy and highly profitable industry that operates outside U.S. law.
WashingtonPost.com: Click here to learn more about online gambling.
If you had to pick the moment that the poker boom began, it was probably the day an unknown accountant named Chris Moneymaker won $2.5 million at the 2003 World Series of Poker.
Suddenly every amateur with a hat, sunglasses and a stack of chips saw themselves as the next big money maker. Nearly 7,000 competed in last year's tournament for $180 million in prize money. But the fever has spread far beyond Las Vegas.
It is the richest sporting competition in the world. And yet all this pales in comparison to the half million people who are playing on the Internet right now in the unregulated world of online poker.
As we learned in a tutorial, all you have to do to play is log on to the Web, click your way to an online gambling site, open an account with your credit card, choose your game and pull up a seat at a virtual table.
"These people could be playing from anywhere in the world. They could be here in the United States. They could be, you know, in India. They could be in South Africa," Australian computer security expert Michael Josem tells Kroft.
We should tell you that this $18 billion industry is illegal in the U.S., but the ban is almost impossible to enforce since the Internet sites and the computers that randomly deal the cards and keep track of the bets are located offshore, beyond the jurisdiction of U.S. law enforcement.
And unlike land-based casinos, there is almost no official regulation, enforcement or supervision. But it hasn't stopped thousands of mostly young men from making this their livelihood. Todd Witteles, a former computer scientist-turned-poker pro, says you no longer have to go to Vegas to find a high stakes game.
"You could do it from your own living room," he says. "You don't have to get dressed. You don't have to anything. It's right there on your computer."
Witteles says online poker is much different - faster, more aggressive and less personal.
"You're not lookin' at somebody sittin' across the table. You're just playing the cards that tumble out of the computer," Kroft remarks.
"Not only are you not looking at your opponents, you're not looking at the cards being dealt, you're not looking at who's dealing them to you. So, you don't know if the whole thing is legitimate, even if all the players sitting with you are just as legitimate as you are. Maybe the whole game isn't," Witteles says.
And as Witteles found out, it wasn't, at least on a popular Internet site called "Absolute Poker." His suspicions were first aroused in a high stakes game of Texas Hold 'Em, against what he thought was an incompetent, and lucky, amateur using the screen name "Grey Cat."
"This Grey Cat person was new. And at first, he seemed like a live one. He seemed terrible," Witteles remembers. "He seemed to play crazy. It seemed like he was giving his money away. Except the only thing was, he wasn't losing. He was playing in a style that was sure to lose, but he was killing the game day after day."
While Witteles was losing $15,000 to the apparent novice, other high stakes players began to notice improbable and endless winning streaks on Absolute Poker's sister site, "Ultimate Bet."
David Paredes, a Harvard grad who has made enough money playing poker to pay off his law school loan and live in an expensive New York apartment, got fleeced by a player called "Nio Nio."
Asked how much he lost, Paredes tells Kroft, "I'm probably down somewhere in the range of $70,000 to that particular player."
Paredes says there were other players who lost higher sums. "In the range of $250,000, $90,000, $70,000, $210,000."
Produced by Ira Rosen
© MMIX, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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See all 446 CommentsFor full details you can go here: Online poker cheating scandal
Just because some players were caught cheating online does not mean that it still does not happen. This one player, potripper, was incredibly dumb to play it the way he did, by winning so much it became too obvious that there was some sort of cheating going on. Had he not been so greedy and just played slightly above the average, he would most likely still be at it.
And there may be others who can do the same thing, but are smart enough to cover their tracks by smarter play, losing a few now and then, and keeping a low profile.
We see examples everyday of websites being hacked, information being stolen, sites raided and other types of Internet crime. Who is to say that this is not being done now as I write this?
I think there is a lot more cheating online than most players suspect, and collusion is the most rampant. Collusion can occur many ways:
Using an instant messenger service, such as Yahoo, MSN, AIM or others, two players, or even a group of players, can use these services to share hand information during play, from locations across the street, across the city, across the state, even across the country or in a different country. By sharing hand information during play, these players can acheive a significant advantage over the other players.
Next most common is players who use multiple accounts to play on the same site, often through different skins. This makes it possible for the same player to actually have two (or more) seats at the same table, enabing chip dumping in tournaments, whipsawing fo build pots, and
After that comes two accounts from the same IP using two different computers under different names (think husband/wife teams) who can play in the same game, even at the same table.
There will be no final answers until online Poker is regulated legally in the USA. The Poker Players Alliance is trying to do this, for more information, visit their site and join up, it's free!
An employee hacked you haha. Yeah and Phil Ivey tried to hack my account and steal my bankroll because he needed it. Trust me, if what you say is true, you would have no problem proving it. Everyone at twoplustwo forum would help you. No question.
It really amazes me at the lengths people will go to in this country. I know there is corruption but on this level, a card game, is amusing. The NFL should be ashamed of themselves and people like you should be ashamed of yourself. Everything you and others claim is contradicted by the exemption of online fantasy fball, horse betting, and lottery. This isn''t even about online poker, its about constitutional rights and corruption. Also everything you claim even though its false would be fixed by regulation. The point is that you just want online poker gone. That''s fishy to anyone with a brain.
Point proven.
http://www.pocketfives.com/poker-articles/See-Your-Opponents-Hole-Cards--Guaranteed-2426045
-its my passion for the game steel. i imagine its probably the same game you love. whether live players want to believe or not, its to their benifit that online poker stays around and is not smeared. "the poker boom" was started because of online poker. NL was almost a myth before online had their way with it. Without online poker, live games die too all you live players. people will lose interest and wont be so eager to try their skills at the live table they have been brushing up online.
It''s hard to knock someone down who has passion like i do and there are a lot of us.
and like i said, we need regulation. its funny how us online players are begging the gov to tax and regulate us!
what about online fantasy football, online horse betting, online lottery??? tell me that steel???
if you remember, online and land casino''s take RAKE. They do not make money on the outcome of a poker hand. if they are caught cheating, they lose BILLIONS! It is not in the sites interest to cheat! absolute was a F **** and should be shut down imo. they are the exception. and considering its 1 deal, thats pretty *** good considering all the online poker rooms. im sure more scams have been caught in live poker than online poker. thats most likely a fact.
I read books on playing LIVE poker! and you know what?? the same techniques and strategies applied!!
wow what a shock.
why do highstakes players risk millions on them? where is your proof? go ask your boy phil ivey. he plays on tilt and has a stake in the company. would he risk his face on a cheating site?? dont think so!
if its not poker, please sit down and play me. i will take your money whether it be live or online because its the same game. like ive said before, its common for human beings to claim what you claim when they dont understand it. thats just human nature. im sure the stock market is rigged too! pshhh
nothing you say is valid.
you are entitled to believe what you want. shoot, go chase after the loch ness monster for all i care. anyway, the sites need to be regulated like they are in europe. oh i guess those sites are scams too even though they are publicly traded and regulated by more than one entity.
if online poker is rigged than so is live poker.
And put my money on etrade? Are you telling me there aren%u2019t any scams in the stock market? I''m probably more susceptible to scams on eBay and the stock market than I am with online poker. And that just a couple examples.
And sir, we are trying our best to have online poker regulated so individuals like you and me will be safer from crooks. Unfortunately I could go to the store and get robbed by a crook or buy something on Amazon and get robbed by a crook. My point is there are scumbags everywhere.
Hate to break it to you steel, but online poker will never go away whether its legal or illegal. Online poker is legal by the way. It is far too big of business and convenient for people to play the game they love. You sick to your live game and I will stick to my online game and play live when I can take a trip to Vegas.
--there is a chat box that is very lively and if you want the "live trash talking experience" than you have the choice to play live. If I want to play online then you should not worry about that. not all of us are able to go to a casino after work for a few hours.
IT IS NOT POKER FOOLS!!!!
--that''s funny, I played online my entire career. played a live tourney and won 2 live tourneys in the same night. talking 90-150 player field. don''t tell me online poker isn''t real. I would take you down live or online.
BTW I have never lost 1 cent of my money online!!! And never will! BAN THIS TRASH FOR GOOD OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!
--you have the option of playing live or online. you decide. but sir, you will not decide for me.
So i guess this whole potripper story is just a figment of cbs and a few others imagination!!
-nobody said that. it is an isolated incident that affects a small minority of players because the majority of players don''t play on that site.
Tells are not a big part of the game??? Play Phil Ivey in a hand or 2 and say that. His eyes are the biggest part of his game!!!!
--if this is true than why is Phil Ivey still a huge winner online? why has he grossed almost 9 mil since 2007 online? physical tells are not as big of part of the game as you make it. if anything online poker is harder than live.
Considering Party Poker makes a ton of money on a daily basis from rake, your money would not be worth it to them to steal. I don''t know how much your cash out was but mine was for a pretty significant amount of money and I cashed out more than once.
Contact customer service again and tell them your issue. I would be willing to bet if you go about it the correct way, you will get your check.
If you stick to the mainstream sites, online poker is perfectly safe. If it wasn''t safe or rigged/etc.. then why would high stakes players risk millions on them?? They wouldn''t. Let''s ask Phil Ivey or Patrick Antonius if there is a big difference in the actual game of poker.
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