Peru Fights Yale To Reclaim Artifacts

CBS Evening News: Yale Locked In Dispute With Andean Nation Over Incan Artifacts

(CBS)  More than half-a-millennium old, some ancient Incan artifacts from the Machu Picchu ruins in Peru have sparked quite the present day international dispute, reports CBS News correspondent Jim Axelrod.

Yale University has them. Peru wants them back.

"Right now Yale believes that it has clear title to them," says Barbara Shailor, deputy provost for the arts at Yale.

"Why do the artifacts belong back here in Peru?" asks historian Mariana Mould de Pease. "Because they were made here."

When Yale professor Hiram Bingham rediscovered Machu Picchu early last century, he carted thousands of pieces of pottery, jewelry, even bone fragments, back to Yale's campus in New Haven, Conn. Peru says it was a temporary arrangement for 18 months.

"The Peruvian government said, you take these artifacts because you want to do research," de Pease said. "The understanding was you give them back. That was in 1916."

As with any dispute, both sides are looking at the same set of events and drawing two very different pictures. But here's what's not in dispute, not here in Peru nor on the Yale campus. When it comes to the bulk of the artifacts, Yale doesn't want to give them back. When the Peruvian government asked for the artifacts back, de Pease said Yale's response was "arrogant."

"They tried to convince Peru that we were not able to conduct serious research, that we were not able to take care of those artifacts," she said.

"We believe we've been good stewards for the last almost 100 years and that we want to see that stewardship continue for the next 100 years and beyond," Shailor said.

As often happens, Axelrod reports, the strong feelings are leading to strong words, like looting.

"Because looting is not only taking away and hiding the objects you are taking with you, looting is saying you can't take care of the things, that's why I keep them," de Pease says.

"This is not loot," Shailor says. "It was not the spoils of war. And the conditions under which they were brought to New Haven, I believe, were legitimate ones."

Yale has offered to return some of the artifacts. But not nearly enough for the Peruvian government, which wants them all back in time for Machu Picchu's centenary in 2011. If not, it has threatened a modern day remedy - a lawsuit.

[frankfurt200]

Posted by galloglaigh at 11:01 PM

The Smithsonian continues to keep the heads of four Modoc Indian leaders whose bodies are remain buried in Oregon. The Tribe has requested they be returned several times, and Smithsonian continues to hold them. After these leaders were executed, circuses took their heads and paraded them around the country for the public''s amusement.

[galloglaigh]

Machu Pichu was discovered by Hiram Bingham in 1911. Bingham was an American academic, explorer and politician.
I think considering this fact andf that the artifacts are probably safer in the USa than in Peru, Yale should keep the artifacts.
Posted by presjfk at 05:35 PM : Nov 24, 2008
- - - - - - - - - -

Wrong on both counts!!

Most of the locals living in the area knew about Machu Picchu and it was one of those locals who led Bingham to the ancient city ruins. In addition, two local missionaries had already climbed to the ruins in 1906, five years before Bingham arrived in the area.

The only credit Bingham (and Yale) should be given is for bringing world attention to Machu Picchu, and the National Geographic Society should be given most of that credit.

Who says the artifacts are safer in the U.S. than in Peru? The ONLY way valuables can be kept safe in this country is to LOCK them up. When is the last time Yale offered these artifacts for public viewing?

In September 2007, Yale agreed to give the artifacts back.

So, why doesn''t Yale live up to their agreement and give them back?

[anillafield]

My apologies to mzwild. I''ve incorrectly attached your posting identification to the comments by presjfk.

In my previous posting the quoted comments were made by:

- Posted by presjfk at 05:35 PM : Nov 24, 2008

Machu Pichu was discovered by Hiram Bingham in 1911. Bingham was an American academic, explorer and politician.

I think considering this fact andf that the artifacts are probably safer in the USa than in Peru, Yale should keep the artifacts.


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Posted by presjfk: Machu Picchu was built by the Peruvians long before America existed. Hiram Bingham no more "discovered" it than the Beatles discovered the US on their first visit. The artifacts belong to Peru. Yale stole them. Being an American institution doesn''t give them special privileges.

What I don''''t understand is why this is suddenly an issue after almost 100 years. If the Peruvians really cared about the antiquities, why did it take until now for them to speak up?

If they really have a legitimate case, let them show some kind of evidence for it. Is there a contract that indicates the possession was temporary? If not, they''''re pretty much SOL.


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Posted by bread57: Wrong. Let''s see the letter from Peru authorizing Yale to remove thousands of priceless artifacts from a Peruvian archaeological site.

[anillafield]

%u201CMachu Pichu was discovered by Hiram Bingham in 1911. Bingham was an American academic, explorer and politician.%u201D

%u201CI think considering this fact andf that the artifacts are probably safer in the USa than in Peru, Yale should keep the artifacts.%u201D

- Posted by mzwild at 07:12 PM : Nov 24, 2008

The comments above reveal the basic flaw of the Yale argument. The underlying principle here is exactly the same as the %u201CColumbus discovered America%u201D idea. The %u201Cwhite%u201D people in America and Europe do NOT consider anything to be %u201Cdiscovered%u201D until the %u201Cwhite%u201D people find out about it. Obviously the Peruvian people knew about their own history and culture just as the Native Americans knew about the existence of America, but any knowledge held by the %u201Cnon-white%u201D people is PRESUMED to be irrelevant and incorrect. The sheer magnitude of arrogance and ignorance involved in this bigotry is staggering especially when the bigots presume themselves to know and understand more about the Peruvian history and culture than the Peruvian people. Yet that%u2019s exactly what we have here; a handful of Yale academics are claiming to know more about Peruvian culture and history than the entire population of the Native Peruvians. This is equivalent to some two-bit museum curators claiming ownership to the stolen Van Gogh paintings because they consider themselves to know more about Van Gogh than Van Gogh himself.

[evian_ycnan]

An American university laying claim to stolen artifacts?

Whoa. Next thing you know, some jerkwad in the Oval Office might even claim that America has the right to attack some country on the pretense of a preemptive strike.

Well, it could happen.

[smurfcrusher]

Yale asserts they should keep the artifacts since they are qualified to preserve them.

Hello??

1. Since when does that dictate ownership
2. I would remind Yale that these items were sitting on a mountaintop for hundreds of years and didn''t require specialized "care".

Yale is grasping at straws for reasons to keep their plunder. SHAME ON YOU!

[mzwild]

The sheer arrogant assumptions made by Yale sicken me. The artifacts are the proptery of the people of Peru and their historic legacy. And-you cannot tell me that no one in Peru is not qualified to curate that collection. For once do the right thing. I also think that colonized countries like the United States have their own specific organization like NAGPRA, the Native American Graves Repatriation Act. This countrie''s so-called scientists are ghoulish grave-robbers. Hah!

[presjfk]

Machu Pichu was discovered by Hiram Bingham in 1911. Bingham was an American academic, explorer and politician.

I think considering this fact andf that the artifacts are probably safer in the USa than in Peru, Yale should keep the artifacts.

[toolmangler-2009]

I have got the perfect solution. Yale should break the artifacts into itsy bitsy pieces and put them in a large cardboard box and ship it back to them.
Posted by Lady_Organs at 02:01 PM : Nov 24, 2008



A ''real'' Lady would never have such a thought, let alone make such a statement.
So what should we call someone that ''would''??????

[summarex]

That Yale guy didn''t rediscover anything. The local Peruvians always knew about Macchu Picchu and would have documented what they knew eventually.

If they don''t return those artifacts the Peruvians should round up that provost and start cutting off body parts on video until they return the things.

Them archaeological widgets are worth money!

[imotorist]

According to Yale officials, I can take what I want as long as I don''t plan on giving it back.

[godseyesore-2009]

Is is property of Peru, pure and simple. They have every right for its full return, regardless of ANY political or economic circumstances. Yale is the criminal culprit here (which doesn''t surprise me given they graduated georgie bush).

[anillafield]

%u201CWhat I don''''t understand is why this is suddenly an issue after almost 100 years. If the Peruvians really cared about the antiquities, why did it take until now for them to speak up?%u201D

%u201CIf they really have a legitimate case, let them show some kind of evidence for it. Is there a contract that indicates the possession was temporary? If not, they''''re pretty much SOL.%u201D

- Posted by bread57 at 02:13 PM : Nov 24, 2008

See what I mean? More self-righteous comments about the behavior of the Peruvian people made with complete lack of knowledge about them or the issue at hand. The artifacts belong to them; we know that because Yale has the cumulative research material that clearly proves that they are Peruvian.

This attitude is very much like the G.W. Bush%u2019s attitude toward the international diplomacy. With extreme self-righteousness backed by great ignorance, the Bush administration attacked the %u201Cwrong country%u201D with the view to %u201Cspread democracy%u201D as if Americans were in the position to dictate to the world how they should behave. And we now have disastrous wars, destroyed economy and loss of international respect.

[bread57]

What I don''t understand is why this is suddenly an issue after almost 100 years. If the Peruvians really cared about the antiquities, why did it take until now for them to speak up?

If they really have a legitimate case, let them show some kind of evidence for it. Is there a contract that indicates the possession was temporary? If not, they''re pretty much SOL.

[anillafield]

Even in this thread the self-righteous and arrogant mentality that has infected our American minds for centuries is clearly evident. Simply examining the condescending comments made about the people of Peru in here reveal the following:

1) The bigotry. All of the comments about the %u201Cinability%u201D of the Peruvian people to research their own history and culture expose the raw prejudice about them. They are just as offensive as the KKK comments made about the black peoples%u2019 inabilities.

2) The ignorance. Despite the pretense of academic superiority, it%u2019s quite clear that the negative comments made about Peru are not based on any knowledge or analysis. The statements that express what the Peruvian people would do with their own cultural artifacts are presented as if they were facts or common knowledge, but it%u2019s obvious from the depth of intellectual content that the person who%u2019s made the comments know nothing about Peru or Peruvian people.

3) The arrogance. The very idea that the Yale researchers, under the pretentious cover of academic accolades, presume to be in the position to judge, predict and even dictate what the Peruvian people should or would do with their own properties reveals the sheer arrogance that could only come from the centuries of self-righteous ignorance. The American %u201Ccivilization%u201D was built with the slave labor. We are not, and should not pretend to be, in the position to judge the world.

[lady_organs]

I have got the perfect solution. Yale should break the artifacts into itsy bitsy pieces and put them in a large cardboard box and ship it back to them.

[clathrate]

Bottom line here is that possession if 90% of the law. Unless Peru can produce a written document showing that a representative of Yale promised to return the items, they do not have a case.


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Posted by redbds

You obviously have little understanding of the law.

Spain has sucessfully reclaimed a considerable amount of antiquities discovered by treasure hunters. There need not exist a specific written document; there need only be a provision in the nation''s constitution affirming sovereignty to national treasures.

Peru is the rightful owner here and they need to quit wasting so much time and legal expense fighting this. In the end, they will lose a lot more than just the artifacts in their museum; they are punishing their own scholars with this dispute.

[redbds]

Bottom line here is that possession if 90% of the law. Unless Peru can produce a written document showing that a representative of Yale promised to return the items, they do not have a case.