8-Year-Old's Confession Draws Fire

Taped Interrogation Of Child Accused Of Killing Dad "Absurd," Says CBS News Legal Analyst

(CBS/AP)  The 8-year-old boy accused of killing his father and another man in Eastern Arizona was subjected to an "absurd" police interrogation, a legal analyst told CBS' The Early Show Thursday.

"What we know is that children under 12 are especially susceptible to questioning by an adult," legal analyst Lisa Bloom said.

The roughly 12-minute video posted Monday night on Phoenix television station KTVK's Web site shows what police say is a confession to the Nov. 5 shooting deaths. The station said it got the video from the prosecutor's office in Apache County, where the shootings occurred.

"I think I shot my dad because he was suffering, I think," the boy said toward the end of the hour-long interrogation, though Bloom notes that the admission comes only after repeated officer questioning.

"Children tell authority figures what they think the authority figure wants to hear," said Bloom. "This child was not Mirandized; there was no attorney for him in that room; there was no parent or legal guardian. He was simply answering questions by two police officers in uniforms with guns."

On Wednesday, a judge ruled that the boy will be allowed to spend the Thanksgiving holiday next week with his mother, a move that drew criticism from the family of the second victim.

The boy and his mother, Eryn Thomas, sat beside each other in court Wednesday in St. Johns, often leaning over and whispering into one another's ear. The boy, wearing a navy blue shirt and pants, was free from the cuffs he wore in a previous hearing.

Judge Michael Roca agreed to allow the boy to leave juvenile detention from noon on Nov. 26 until noon on Nov. 28. Prosecutor Brad Carlyon objected, citing concerns about the safety of the public.

Defense attorney Ronald Wood said the boy is not doing well and has trouble sleeping in detention. He said it was important that the boy "have somebody to talk to."

Although the boy is allowed time to visit with his mother, stepmother, a grandmother and an aunt, Wood said that time is limited.

The judge said that if the boy doesn't return to detention on time, arrest warrants will be issued for him and his mother. Roca ordered that there be no guns or knives in the home while the boy is free and that the boy not be allowed to play video games or watch TV.

"Let's see how it works," Roca said.

The boy has been charged in juvenile court with two counts of murder in the Nov. 5 shootings of his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39, a co-worker who was renting a room.

St. Johns police Chief Roy Melnick has said he would push for the boy to be tried as an adult, though some analysts think even a juvenile court trial would be too much.

"Children this age believe in the tooth fairy, they believe in magic … it's absurd," said Bloom. "This child should not be in juvenile court or adult court, in my opinion. He should be a ward of the family court and get some social service attention."

Prosecutors have 15 days to decide if that's the route they want to take.

Roca also granted a defense motion to provide counseling services for the boy. Anything discussed between the boy and the counselor would not be admissible in court, the judge said.

Thomas left the courthouse without commenting to reporters. She lives in Mississippi but said Wednesday in court that she is staying in St. Johns.

Until his arrest, the boy was living with his father and stepmother, who were married in September. Romero had primary custody of the 8-year-old.

A friend of Romans', John Andreas, said outside court that Romans' wife, Tanya, and her family were upset that the boy will be let out for Thanksgiving.

"The family is very distressed. They don't get Tim back, they don't get Vinnie back. But this boy gets to go home, as their lawyers put it, get to have gravy, turkey, and do whatnot," Andreas said.

Police have said the boy confessed and a police video released Tuesday shows the boy telling two investigators that he fired at least two shots at each of the men. But he also gave conflicting reports of his actions that day.

A defense attorney, Benjamin Brewer, has said police overreached in their questioning of the boy, who was not represented by a family member or lawyer during the interview.

Authorities and the defense attorneys have been unable to answer questions about the case since the court issued a gag order. Attorneys for the media argued Wednesday that the gag order is overly broad and asked that it be lifted. Roca denied that request and placed limits on some public records, ordering that written transcripts be substituted for audio and video recordings.

A status conference in the case has been scheduled for Dec. 8.

[paganmama]

If an adult had not been marandized, wouldn''t the confession be inadmissiable? Isn''t any confession by a child under the age of 16, who does not have parent or legal representation inadmissible? How did this case even get this far?

[psk123-2009]

Why do I get the feeling this little boy is completely innocent? There seems to be no actual evidence that the boy killed his father or the other man. No one bothered to give this boy his rights, a lawyer or a parent/guardian while he was being questioned. The little boy''s so called confession does not even sound plausible.

[docadams3]

I''ve listened to the recording several times. I have a son a little older and it doesn''t sound like he really knows what happened. He certainly doesn''t seem to grasp the horror of it.

[evian_ycnan]

It`s a podunk town in the middle of bumfvck Az. The town`s Barney Phife probably screwed up the crime scene and now any evidence is gone. So they pull shenanigans with an 8-year old.

[evian_ycnan]

The good news... this`ll be a career-ender for Barney Phife when the the defense lawyers and the judge gets through with him...

[dangyankee69]

Nancy Naive, and other Armchair Attorneys, You have to realize that this crime occurred in a close-knit, rural community. If it was more like Mayberry that would suit most of the residents just fine. Facts are Facts and even in Mayberry the fact is that a confession is a pretty weak piece of evidence. All by itself it doesn''t prove anything, and in this case it would be very easy to point out to a jury that the statements made by this child don''t prove a thing. If the Judge doesn''t throw out the confession that decision will be cause for an appeal. If he does the fact that the prosecutors office released the tape of the confession to the media provides grounds for an appeal. Ironically, most people who have viewed the video seem to be coming away doubting the childs guilt. Was this what the prosecutor''s office was hoping for? Or were they just responding to pressure from the unscrupulous media? Either way they made a big mistake. Big surprise the Apache County Attorney lost the fall election.

Is the way this case is being handled the result of political motives? Is the current attorney trying to give the incoming one a black eye in the hope that by the time of the next election voters won''t remember that it was he who released the video?

[agidoi]

i think the stepmom did it

[hamiltongrad]

We need to be sensitive to this boy and ask (if he did this ) what made him do it ? Was there some type of school hazing, and "mean" teacher or other kids, or even a neighbor leaving bad language internet notes on myspace for example. All of society is to blame in such cases, by definition, when a child or a woman is tragically drawn into violence. Was the TV to blame ?
What about video games. Were they violent, pooluting his mind ?
Surely we need to ask why, rather than to blame and I hope not, forget that this is only an innocent child.

[hamiltongrad]

Children who are drawn to video games of violence need to be helped, not punished.
Eventually all visions of violent acts have to be banned from TV, video games, and movies, that way we as a society can bring such "bad turns" into hope and sunshine. As a Feminist College Professor I am truly sure and certain that we must form community groups to stop the free ourselves from the need to blame others. We ARE ALL TO BLAME !

[dangyankee69]

If the graduates of Eastern Liberal Arts Colleges would stop watching violent Television and buying violent Video Games producers would stop producing them. As long as there is a market there will be people there to feed it and make a living off it.

[dangyankee69]

Beyond that - If the kid came home loaded a rifle and shot his father, and then called the renter in so he could give him the same brutal treatment then the adjective "innocent" doesn''t really fit.

[dangyankee69]

The Court entered into a contract with the Mother. The court set conditions on the release - No guns, knives, Television or video games. The Mother was free to refuse to agree to these requirements. She chose to agree. If she violates the agreement she can be found in contempt of court. Is it really that complicated?

[connapa]

Not just the tooth fairy and magic, lets not forget Santa Claus. If forensics can "prove" that he did it, he doesn''t need prison, but some type of treatment. As they say on CSI- follow the evidence.

[p0ntific8r]

That was not an interrogaton, it was an inquisition. They seem to be focused only on terrorizing this child. It is extremely obvious that his statements which were clear and consise indicating he was not involved went to the hypothetical "might have happened" to give the interrogating officers the murky answers they wanted.

I have been a police officer and involved in law enforcement for many years - this interrogation is totally bogus and will not hold any legal integrity.

[blogthis1]

Give me a break. This little monster did not think he was playing make believe. He knew he was shooting and killing them. Let this kid off and watch.... he''ll be back in the news in a few years after killing someone else.

[mellie1957]

I don''t believe the kid did it. Two things trouble me... If he shot one of the men why was the other man not able to overtake him? Second, it doesn''t sound like they are looking for any other suspects; the true killer is probably very close by. Maybe "agidoi" has it right. Where was the step-mom when this transpired?

[dangyankee69]

The fallacy of retrospective determinism is almost as big a problem as the fact that a confession only is useful if the person confessing is guilty.

"If he shot one of the men why was the other man not able to overtake him? "

Maybe because Tim would never in his wildest dreams think that what he heard could be the sounds of the boy killing his father? If he assumed it was something else his actions make perfect sense.

Lesson: Don''t go to sleep in a house with kids and guns present. It''s too doggone tempting.

[susanhelit]

This case is starting to stink. That''s not a confession - that''s a kid telling an adult what they want to hear. IIRC, this kid wasn''t a problem before - why would he suddenly shoot his dad and someone else? It makes no sense.

We had a case like this in San Diego - an older kid, but the same scenario - the police convinced him that he had to say he killed his sister - they told him they had his blood and fingerprints on the knife, he accepted they were telling the truth (they weren''t), and said that if that were true, he must have done it and not remembered - they took that as a confession - after many hours of interrogation without his parents nor any attorney present to protect him.

He recanted, the prosecutor tried to charge him for a few years - all the while, in the evidence locker, was sitting a sweatshirt from the real killer, with the little girl''s blood on it - the police had picked him up that night trying to get into houses - but were so sure it was the brother that they took the sweatshirt to prove he didn''t do it, never tested it, and let him go. It took almost a decade to get the real killer brought up on charges.

[evian_ycnan]

Posted by DangYankee69 at 10:47 AM : Nov 20, 2008

See Peter Reilly, small towns, Barney Phife.

http://www.truthinjustice.org/reilly.htm

What''s the motive here? CYA Same as the motive in Falls Village (even smaller than Mayberry RFD)

[hitoyou1]

This is what the police do. They don''t care about the law. This is why most people wont talk to the police, they know the police are CROOKS. They do this type of thing all the time. Some of the biggest crooks in the U.S.A. are cops.

[credibility2]

Let''s get over this false mentality that because this is an eight year old kid that he couldn''t possibly have premeditated the murders and pulled the triggers killing two adults. Evil criminality comes in all ages, shapes and sizes. The kids of today are much more evil and vicious than they were a few decades ago. The system doesn''t care at all about the victims and their families, only the evil criminal kid and his so-called rights. You murder, you shouldn''t have any rights.

[cricketbeers]

Are the police even looking for other suspects? Or are they pinning their entire theory on this little boy?

If an adult were questioned and a confession was received without miranda rights or a lawyer present, this would be tossed out so quick it would make your head spin. WHY is he even in a detention facility based on this supposed confession?

Sure some kids are evil, just like some adults are evil. But when the authorities aren''t exploring any other scenarios, it smells more than a little fishy to me. Does he have a history of violence? Mental illness?

I highly doubt that he just one day picked up a gun and shot each person twice just for the heck of it. And with pinpoint accuracy - so that the other man wasn''t able to overtake the gun. Premeditated? Hardly. 8 year olds don''t PLAN to do much of anything...

[bacallabah]

what kind of gun was this cause anything above lets say a 22 depending on the size of the boy would have knocked him on his u know what from what i can think i remember being that age and shooting (trained by responsible adults in use) and having to actually sit on the ground to shoot due to the kick backs.and the confession was ilegally taken with no counsel of a minor so i do believe that will be tossed as well and we all know about how cops coerce for confessions.second question would be IF he did do it WHY perhaps molestation is an issue perhaps abuse of some kind for that kind of anger perhaps bad parenting on not educating the child on how fake games and TV shows are i personally have educated my son how hollywood works and he is 8 now also

[farremoved]

.......I''''d be willing to bet that public executions and hangings could easily become one of America''''s favorite pastimes.

Posted by IrishWench

I''d hope that they would become our pastime! There''s no place in a civilized society for violent, thoughtless murderer''s and putting the fear of god in them with the threat of immediate and public death might serve as a deterrent.......if not, the numbers of such heinous crimes will decrease with each passing execution!

[cricketbeers]

I''''d hope that they would become our pastime! There''''s no place in a civilized society for violent, thoughtless murderer''''s and putting the fear of god in them with the threat of immediate and public death might serve as a deterrent.......if not, the numbers of such heinous crimes will decrease with each passing execution!---------------

WOW -- "putting the fear of God into them..." Do you really believe God condones execution? Not to mention, what if someone is found guilty but is truly innocent? What does God say to the punishers when this happens? "Oh, minor glitch! We''ll dock you a few months from paradise."

[bacallabah]

when it comes to that my belief IS put them to death publicly BUT through a PPV TV satt system and use that cash to bail out the ecomony and poof the deficit goes bye bye just ask vince mcmahon about PPV proceeds.when would be criminals see what the deal is they wont wanna try it themselves

[bacallabah]

it was prolly an ilegall mexican after all they now ovwerwhelm american citizens numbers nationwide and the govt does NOTHING jobs are lost homes forclosed banking issues this all due to the invasion and people cannot work anymore

[cricketbeers]

when it comes to that my belief IS put them to death publicly BUT through a PPV TV satt system and use that cash to bail out the ecomony and poof the deficit goes bye bye just ask vince mcmahon about PPV proceeds.when would be criminals see what the deal is they wont wanna try it themselves ---------------------------

And how would we be assured that it would be a "real" execution and not just public entertainment.

[bacallabah]

ok now go watch more x files

[evian_ycnan]

I don`t think there is anyone who honestly believe that an 8-year cannot kill someone; the issue is can an innocent 8-year old be easily coerced into a confession for a crime they did not commit?

And the answer is a clear, YES.

Is this kid innocent or guilty? Don`t know, can`t tell. If the only evidence is this confession, or that he had blood on his clothes, then they can never tell.

The confession is worthless, and the kid was the first to discover the bodies.

These cops are the epitome of Barney Phifes

[dangyankee69]

Naive Nancy - How would the cops in your town have handled it differently? You criticize what you know nothing about. Is the confession useful? Nope, and it shouldn''t have provided an end to the investigation. But for police once they have the answer to the riddle they are done. That''s not Barney Fife, that''s just cops. Solve one case and move on to the next. That''s what they are trained to do.

[random_radar]

Something is very wrong with this case. If the boy actually did pull the trigger, then do they have his fingerprints on the gun? If they do, then why do they need to extract a confession?

If the fingerprints are not on the gun, and there is no clear evidence of culpability, then the question is who did commit the murders?

Why don''t the police talk about the clear physical evidence? Why is the only thing we hear a confession? Why do I have doubts about this and every other police investigation?

Something is wrong here.

[cricketbeers]

They are trained to do that -- but it really sucks that nobody is crying out on this child''s behalf.

Casey Anthony got national attention -- I think this little boy deserves a public outcry. The attitude that "he''s the killer" without entertaining any other suspects is ridiculous.

[evian_ycnan]

What? Did I say the cops in my podunk police department would be better? Doubtful.

But these actions by the Barney Phifes almost guarantee that this case is FUBAR.

The Reilly case is a class example of stupid police and it goes clear up the chain to the State.

You don`t get geniuses for $40,000/year. Look at how many Miranda cases pop up year after year because they are too stupid to recite the lines, "You have a right..."

Until we force the police to act like professionals then this kind of *** will continue.

[susieq_13]

I feel so bad for this 8 yr old boy. He is just a baby. Being the mother of an 8 yr old boy myself, I just do not see this boy killing anyone, let alone his dad! These cops had to of coerced him. I think he told those cops what THEY wanted to hear. If he was being interrogated for an hour, he probably told them what they wanted to he could get out of there. It''s hard for an 8 yr old to sit still for that long. I feel so sorry for this boy. May God be with him through this terrible terrible ordeal. Are the cops not investigating this crime or do they just assume it was the boy?

[cricketbeers]

If the confession has been released than why not other pertinent supporting evidence. They''''ve already tainted the jury pool, why stop now? --- posted by IrishWench

And with a GAG order to boot. This case is FUBAR for sure!

[susieq_13]

I feel so bad for this 8 yr old boy. He is just a baby. Being the mother of an 8 yr old boy myself, I just do not see this boy killing anyone, let alone his dad! These cops had to of coerced him. I think he told those cops what THEY wanted to hear. If he was being interrogated for an hour, he probably told them what they wanted to he could get out of there. It''s hard for an 8 yr old to sit still for that long. I feel so sorry for this boy. May God be with him through this terrible terrible ordeal. Are the cops not investigating this crime or do they just assume it was the boy?

[voidmaster-2009]

FROM THE STORY:
"This child was not Mirandized; there was no attorney for him in that room; there was no parent or legal guardian. He was simply answering questions by two police officers in uniforms with guns."
***
Based on this, his confession will be ruled inadmissible.

[bks59]

apparentlty the keystone cops don''t want to do a real investigation. the kid did it!!!!!

Yes it is absurd, several years back there was a murdered child in Chicago, initially two young boys, ages about 8-10 were accused, but as the nvestigation continued it was determined that these two children at this age did not have the mental/emotional capacity to follow through with such a crime, i doubt this 8 YO is any different.

[bacallabah]

yup u all got it this case is done b4 it starts that confession could also cause a legal suit for defamation and mental anguish false imprisonment per day suits merely due to the fact it was in ANY state ilegally obtained.there have been many cases tossed for this same thing and i truly do not think he did do it but if he did there would have to be some mitigating circumstances such as sexual abuse or abuse of some kind in my opinion for a child to do that which would basically drop him off the hook anyways,and yes a gag order at this point is useless the cofession is seen the public knows and will support this kid obviously the DA might as well give it up and walk b4 he cost`s his state even more money

[bacallabah]

this guys family could be crying over some kid having dinner there relative molested at some point id say not being molested by him is a reason to celebrate and be thankful

[missy126]

My heart goes out to this child! Please, someone, step in and get this child a VERY good defense attorney. This is ridiculous! I don''t believe those tapes at all. Something is not right with this whole thing. 8 year old boys don''t just up and decide one day, "hum, guess I''ll go home and kill my Dad". It makes NO SENSE!

[richardking3]

This child could have killed these people but what drove him to take such a drastic move?{sexual abuse?] I personally don''t believe he killed anyone! I used to live in Apache junction,Az. and I know how persuasive those police officers can be.They sit you in a little room and keep questioning you until they get the answers they want to hear! I f the judge actually thought this CHILD was capable of killing anyone would he release him to his mother , I think NOT! Let The EVIDENCE prove the police officers claims. Not a coerced confession!

[kabaam1]

Someone correct me if I''m wrong, but even if they DID Mirandize him, he would still have to answer "yes" at the end of the recital of his rights when asked if he understood those rights. No way an eight year old understands any of the concepts of those rights, let alone the consequences of waiving those rights.
These officers were waaaaaay out of line. And as paid professionals, they knew it. Ridiculous and outrageous!

[ccdsswrkr08]

I feel so bad for this 8 yr old boy. He is just a baby. Being the mother of an 8 yr old boy myself, I just do not see this boy killing anyone, let alone his dad! These cops had to of coerced him. I think he told those cops what THEY wanted to hear. If he was being interrogated for an hour, he probably told them what they wanted to he could get out of there. It''''s hard for an 8 yr old to sit still for that long. I feel so sorry for this boy. May God be with him through this terrible terrible ordeal. Are the cops not investigating this crime or do they just assume it was the boy?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by susieq_13 at 12:51 PM : Nov 20, 2008


And for the rest of you who do not think an 8 year old is capable of such a thing, think again. I used to work in a residential treatment facility for emotionaly disturbed youth, a 6 through 9 year old is perfectly capable of doing serious damage, and even killing, and knowing exactly what they''re doing. Not that the child should be held accountable, as there is more than likely far more to this story, but he is capable. (I eventually had to quit because I was stabbed by a 7 year old)

[oldguy4truth]

There are no winners in this one. Too many questions, and not enough answers. I can not comprehend.

[dangyankee69]

this guys family could be crying over some kid having dinner there relative molested at some point id say not being molested by him is a reason to celebrate and be thankful Posted by bacallabah

Where do you get the idea that this child was molested? What evidence is there to suggest it? Sounds like you''ve got some personal baggage you need to unload. I''d suggest therapy.

[missouri-dad]

The DA already knew the confession would not be admissible evidence. That''s why it was leaked to media. Dirty pool if you ask me.

[dangyankee69]

Ok - The case is FUBAR. The reason? The DA handling the case just lost an ugly reelection campaign. His release of the interview footage has made it impossible for his successor to win this case. The way the police handled the case is being portrayed in the media (Don''t believe the hype, it''s a sequel) as inept and ineffective. If you believe everything you read in the paper, you deserve what you get.