8-Year-Old In Cuffs At Murder Hearing

Arizona Boy Charged With Shooting Dad, 2nd Man; Abuse Charges Fly

(CBS/AP)  An 8-year-old boy charged in the shooting deaths of his father and another man appeared in handcuffs at a court hearing, drawing tears from some in the audience. The judge slapped a gag order on the shocking case.

While friends and neighbors disputed a suggestion that the boy had been abused, the judge on Monday proclaimed the gag order necessary to prevent "loose-cannon pronouncements."

The boy - who has been charged as a juvenile with two counts of murder - sat restlessly next to his mother, fidgeting, tapping his fingers on the table, and swiveling and rocking in his chair. His mother declined to comment as she left the courthouse.

Much of the hearing focused on court-ordered mental health and competency evaluations of the boy. Judge Michael Roca gave defense attorneys until Friday to either find an expert to evaluate the boy's competency or to agree to one suggested by the prosecutors.

Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer also asked for access to the crime scene - a two-story home where police say the boy's father, Vincent Romero, a 29-year-old employee of a construction company, and his co-worker and roommate, Timothy Romans, 39, were shot with a .22-caliber rifle on Wednesday.

Brewer complained that police questioned the third-grader without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.

Hundreds of mourners packed a funeral Mass on Monday for Romero at St. John the Baptist Catholic Church. Romans' funeral was scheduled for later in the week.

Relatives and friends painted a picture of Romero as a caring father who seemed to be doing all he could to raise a polite and respectful boy.

"They were always together doing things as a family, fishing, hunting," said Carlos Diaz, a cousin of Romero's current wife.

About 600 mourners filled the church in this rural town of about 4,000 people 170 miles northeast of Phoenix. Those who could not get in crowded around an open door or sat on chairs set up outside. Romero, an avid hunter, was in a casket with a camouflage lid.

Police said Romero's son planned and methodically carried out the killings, and confessed. Authorities would not discuss specifics of the confession.

Police Chief Roy Melnick said over the weekend that police were looking into whether the boy might have been abused. He would not say who might be under scrutiny. The gag order was issued just before Melnick was to hold a news conference to discuss the case.

Prosecutors said there was no record of any complaints filed about the boy with Arizona Child Protective Services and that the youngster had no disciplinary record at school.

Former prosecutor Wendy Murphy said there is not enough evidence known yet to tell whether this murder fits the profile of an abuse victim who snaps.

"It's an incredibly unusual case," Murphy told Early Show anchor Maggie Rodriguez. "We hear about 8-year-olds accidentally shooting a gun. This was execution style. So I think it's fair to say there was something pretty awful going on behind closed doors. Police have already talked about the investigation of this child being an abuse victim. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that this child was suffering terribly horrible things behind closed doors."

Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's mother lives in Mississippi, according to officials. Police said the boy's stepmother was not home at the time of the shooting.

[rixmix98]

This is just downright sad. I''m at such a loss on this, I don''t even know what I think.

[a-ji]

Sad story. Can the court atleast order not to use handcuffs to the boy.

[missybelle-2009]

Weird story, and right now very few people really know what happened, besides the father being shot by the boy.

[hatemorons]

Only in a backwater, geriatric, right-wing, seceded "state" such as Arizona or Florida could something this appalling occur. Hey all you 90 year old double-widers out there, let''s export your ancient ***** for Soylent Green!

[MIpapaof4]

Maybe, and just maybe, it was a murder/suicide. Can not believe an eight year old boy is even capable of such a thing. I just hope smarter people get involved here. He is in my prayers.

[maedean]

Excuse me but the kid should be in hand cuffs. He killed 2 people. Do you think they should treat him like a boy scout who just earned a badge? He kills not one but 2 and people feel sorry for the kid. Get real.......

[slim1h2o]

Posted by hatemorons at 10:51 AM : Nov 11, 2008

What are you talking about???

And most likely they have the kid handcuffed, so doesn''t end up hurting himself.

I guess? It''s the only thing I could think of, I''m sure they''re not really worried that somehow he would be able to escape..

[navyjimfl]

.....maybe the kid didn''t do it? we don''t know the whole story yet...

[petro49l]

Why did the State tolerate sexual abuse of a small Child? Vincent probably threatened and raped the boy while in the woods. Self-defense is a good plea. He meant to avoid the sexual assaults of Vincent and Timothy. How many people were attacked by the two who refuse to testify?

[earache4]

Time for a good ''Rodney King'' on the little brat....

[tpeks40]

Ya think that maybe this kid is a psychopath? With no evidence of abuse, this tyke killed 2 people execution style. I suppose that if Dad was abusing the child, he might have also thought to lock up his ammo. From the report it seems that Dad was your typical single dad, with a demon for a kid.

[barbaram99]

Why wasn''t the gun locked up. People know they should lock up their guns. The parent is the blamed to leave a gun where a child has access to. With children in the home the guns should be locked. Yes I am older. I don''t blame the kid. I do blame the care giver. I am aware this is 08 but still a child should not be playing with guns. Now he will be locked up. It is time adults stand up to the plate and get the guns in the home locked and the key out of reach of a child. computer games be barred if they are them gun ones. Dell put them on my pc and I removed the gun ones. I have fate. Parents need to have educational games and change the child''s tv habits.

[gracel2]

That little boy needs a good scolding and sent to bed without any supper...

[earache4]

Kid watched too much itchy and scratchy....

[evian_ycnan]

Brewer complained that police questioned the third-grader without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.

======================

Isn`t there a minimum IQ required to be a policeman? I realize that it seems to be hard enough for them to remember and recite the Miranda Rights, judging from the number of appeals because of cops not advising suspects, but almost every state in the union has protections for juveniles that include "no questioning without a parent or gaurdian". A judge could have assigned a guardian ad litem, if it was that important.

IDIOTS. Taze them, Bro!

[usmc1968]

It is telling what comes out of the mouths of some in our society when a story likes this appears, we see the whole range of comments from execute him, incarcerate him for life, till he turns 21, pity him, he had to have been abused sexually or non sexually, has to be disturbed mentally, etc, etc, the list goes on, but fact is he is only 8 years old, a age when kids usually are into cartoons, ninja turtles, power rangers, as my 10 year old is, and I cannot imagine a 8 year old methodically execution style killing his dad and another man! I have to be suspicious of this coercive, illegal interrogation by hick town police in Saint Johns whom seem to either not care or have no clue its illegal to interrogate a 8 year old without counsel/guardian present! Possible false confession, since reportedly he first denied doing it, mysterious pre-murder visit by biological mom, non custodial mom, with apparent alibi of being back in Mississppi, but did she have a fake alibi, did she have a boyfriend, if so where was he, a new stepmom in the picture, where was she? Hopefully the state bureau of investigation is on this case, if they are not up to the job maybe the FBI ought to be called in many a murder for hire, passion occurs in custody disputes, and I see more here than a killer child as many seem to automatically assume is the case! I see many suspects, twists and turns in this case which need to be investigated!

[mydiatribe]

This DOES NOT end well, no matter how the courts proceed.
I suspect this young offender hasn''t got a clue what''s in store for him. None of it Good, nor should it be.

[kaybee2121]

This is nonsense...I feel sorry for the kid too but better punish him and make sure he cannot hurt someone else. If people do not go back to corporal punishment (Spankng is good) we are getting more and more prisons overflowing with people who have no self discipline. They learn from the time they are little that they should have everything they want. Try making them do chores and give them something to think about when they misbehave. Stop buying them those awful games and limit the TV. This poor little boy probably does not know rightfrom wrong

[usclimey]

How does an 8 year old boy kill someone, let alone an adult, execution style?

Posted by ozilott

And with a gun that''s probably as tall as he is?

[usclimey]

Thanks to the NRA this child is no longer a victim of sixual abuse from his gay father and lover.

Posted by yongamerica

You are kidding, right?

[kaybee2121]

centerfalls93 you are without a doubt a brainwashed person who thinks about taking away guns...only the crooks and mental cases will have guns then.

[yourpointis]

More blood on the hands of the NRA.

Posted by Centerfall93 at 11:48 AM : Nov 11, 2008


Hrm, last time I looked I didn''t see anything on the NRA website stating to please go kill your parents execution style, whatever age you are. Jacknut....get a life. It''s not the NRA''s fault.

[eggy1620]

The story goes that the dad was eager to give his son a rifle. Doubt that abuse was going on. Only a certified moron would give his victim a weapon.

[hatemorons]

I repeat: only in a right-wing, backwater toilet bowl such as Arizona (where of course McBackwater''s from)could anyone even entertain so crazy a notion as arresting an 8 year old and attempting to charge him as an adult. I live in Minneapolis and here at least it''s hip, urbane, vibrant--we don''t arrest kids that age here. Further, I challenge anyone to show me evidence of small children being "psychopaths" or "serial killers". You bloodthirsty right-wingers out there better stay the hell away from Minneapolis, San Francisco and New York!

[earache4]

Hrm, last time I looked I didn''t see anything on the NRA website stating to please go kill your parents execution style, whatever age you are. Jacknut....get a life. It''s not the NRA''s fault.
Posted by yourpointis at 12:08 PM

It''s in the fine print next to the article about what gun you should buy your mentally unstable pre-teen....

[ljb6599]

Could something be wrong with the child''s brain????

[lpgideon]

Ya know, why would teaching of how to safely use a rifle be any different than a parent teaching infants to swim safely. Both I would think are critical in the child''s understanding of dangers that are around him. That said, I wonder just how one trained in the safety of the rifle would dare use it the way he is accused.

[albrightw]

Try to understand this, The boy wants to be with his real mother. If he eliminates his father, he feels he will be placed with his real mother. If his real mother was on the ball, the gun would not be available to him. The emotional distance between the boy and the step mother must be considerable.

[slim1h2o]

...a psychiatric evaluation, not a lawyer....

Posted by mjlewis6 at 01:16 PM : Nov 11, 2008

HE DOESN''T NEED A LAWYER?....***!

He''s already had 3 of his rights trampled on, his right to an attorney while questioning, His right to have a parent present while questioning or a guardian. And his Miranda rights were not read to him, prior to questioning.

The 1st thing he needs is a lawyer. Sheesh...

[mollydtt]

No one has any idea why this happened.

I seems reasonable, however, that if the father had been abusing his son, he wouldn''t have bent over backwards to make sure said kid had a lethal weapon at his disposal--and the knowledge of how to use it. Think about it....

At any rate, a lawyer should have been provided. Providing a parent is hard when one is dead, the other is in another state and one is a step parent.
I just don''t buy the idea that this is "obviously" a case of parental abuse.

[neonink]

On Halloween night 1963, six-year-old Michael Audrey Myers stabs his seventeen-year-old sister Judith to death with a large kitchen knife at their home in Haddonfield, Illinois. Almost immediately after, his mother and father arrive home and find him in a trance-like state. They send him to Smith''s Grove - Warren County Sanitarium and he is placed under the care of child psychiatrist Dr. Sam Loomis.
_________________________________________

I can see next year''s box office smash at Halloween.

[hatemorons]

What simian, low-IQ redneck types could be so evil as to charge any 8 year old with murder? Clearly, they''re all double-wide inhabiting, simpering and twitching geriatrics who can''t get conjugal thrills at home anymore (wife has dementia, is frequently seen at midnight running through the streets of Flagstff in an open robe and whose hair smells like it''s never had a shampoo) so they resort to an attempt at lynching a child.

[batman2888]

As I see with many post, jump on me all you want. I have not seen anything about sexual abuse and tho it may be possible that he was abuse, that doesn''t change the fact he killed two people. Age has nothing to do with it. 8 or 80, this kid killed two people without thinking. He deserves to be treated like an adult. Kids today have the means and the ability to do things like this without fear of consequence because the government raises them now.

[ljb6599]

Does this boy have a problem in his brain?? Should we look????

[bush_mcsame]

The sickness of American society is reflected in the fact that they can have an 8 year not only on trial, but in CUFFS even! Degraded.

Repubes are people who believe simultaneously in two things:
1] Guns don''t kill people. 2] Condoms make teens have ***.
So, in one case a lifeless object in behavior, but in the other case not? How''s that again?

[bush_mcsame]

The sickness of American society is reflected in the fact that they can have an 8 year not only on trial, but in CUFFS even! Degraded.

Repubes are people who believe simultaneously in two things:
1] Guns don''t kill people. 2] Condoms force teens have se-x
So, in one case a lifeless object changes behavior, but in the other case not? How''s that again?

Let''s do an experiment: Let''s give 8 year olds guns, and see how many of them are still alive at years end.

Do you think Cho, a tiny 5 foot-something guy, would''ve been able to kill THIRTY-TWO people without a gun? Of course not.

[mbrantley38]

NO ONE KNOWS IF THIS YOUNG BOY COMMITED THIS CRIME. ALL THEY KNOW IS THERE WAS A CONFESSION BY AN 8 YEAR OLD WITH NO ATTORNEY OR LEGAL GUARDIAN PRESENT. HOW DO WE KNOW THIS LITTLE BOY REALLY CONFESSED. THERE IS NO PROOF OF A CONFESSION!

[mbrantley38]

NO ONE KNOWS IF THIS YOUNG BOY COMMITED THIS CRIME. ALL THEY KNOW IS THERE WAS A CONFESSION BY AN 8 YEAR OLD WITH NO ATTORNEY OR LEGAL GUARDIAN PRESENT. HOW DO WE KNOW THIS LITTLE BOY REALLY CONFESSED. THERE IS NO PROOF OF A CONFESSION!

[garoo2]

We have had guns in our house all our lives, and we were taught to repect guns. We wern''t allowed to play with them because they were not toys. They were to protect the family with and to go hunting. Even toy guns , if you were caught even looking like you were pointing it at someone, you got your but beat. What''s wrong with this world is people don''t want the responsibility of raising their own and teaching them right from wrong!!! Yes I have a right to bear arms and I''M DAM PROUD!!!!!

[Froman08]

And with the increased gun purchases over the election of President Obama...I suspect we will be hearing alot more stories like this one.

If your going to have guns in your home with kids...at least have some intelligence and lock them up.

[mugaluv]

batman2888
Your remarks are ludicrous (completely devoid of wisdom or good sense). He is 8 years old. I can''t believe you think an 8-year-old doesn''t deserve special consideration. He may have been abused and he may have been desensitized by video games, but to punish him as an adult won''t help anyone. Pray for the little guy; he needs to be really loved by someone who can really guide and nurture him. Locking him up for life won''t bring back his father or his father''s friend, it will only serve to crush and already broken child.

[waterandsand]

i started hunting at age 7,, i havent shot anyone,

[docadams3]

What if it was a murder-suidice? Could the boy be covering for the father? One thing is for sure: this whole situtation is really messed up.

[incog-nito]

Under current he can''t be charged as an adult, period. They would have to do some extraordinary legal maneuvering to make that happen.

[rsmik]

This case isn''t about gun control or careless parenting. The father and his family were avid hunters and the father wanted the boy to be a hunter too, starting him out shooting prairie dogs. Maybe the kid didn''t like killing animals, maybe he liked it too much, maybe the mother put him up to it, maybe he was abused, who knows until the facts come out.

[bizzybirdy]

Now they said the child killed these two grown men "execution" style! I find this so hard to believe. How could 2 MEN allow a child to shoot them if they were awake? Wouldn''t one of them have heard the first shot? It didn''t say they were sleeping, did it? And was this kid that good a shot that he could KILL them both, not even wounding one? Did he use a machine gun or what? This just doesn''t make much sense the way they say it happened unless I am not reading this correctly.

[maedean]

Excuse me but the kid should be in hand cuffs. He killed 2 people. Do you think they should treat him like a boy scout who just earned a badge? He kills not one but 2 people and everyone wants to feel sorry for the kid. Get real.......

[kaffirboetie]

hatemorons claims there''s no evidence of young children being psychopaths. However, I would like to refer him to a case in England from about 30 years ago in which a serial poisoner may have begun his evil career at the age of 7 years old when he was thought to have poisoned his grandmother. What was proven in that case was that he poisoned some schoolmates at the age of 11 years old and after he was released from juvey at 21 he went on to poison 7 workmates. The case showed that occasionally a young child can indeed be innately evil

[owlwomanxxxx]

So...what''s the scoop....they are going for the death penalty on this boy?

[sepa2]

"They were always together doing things as a family, fishing, hunting,"
Happiness never come to those who seeks happiness by hurting others (from Dhammapada)