8-Year-Old Accused Of Dad's Slay In Court

Police Say Ariz. Boy Confessed To Shooting Deaths Of Father And His Co-Worker

(CBS/AP)  Vincent Romero was no stranger to guns. The avid hunter reportedly asked his priest whether he should buy his young son a firearm.

Now his 8-year-old boy is due in court on two counts of premeditated murder.

Police say the boy confessed to planning and carrying out the shooting deaths of Romero, 29, and co-worker Timothy Romans, 39, who rented a room from him. The men were found shot to death inside Romero's home in the small eastern Arizona community northeast of Phoenix last week.

Police and neighbors are at a loss to explain why he would have used a .22-caliber rifle to kill his father and another man at their home.

"That child, I don't think he knows what he did, and it was brutal," said the family priest, the Very Rev. John Paul Sauter.

The third-grader is due in court Monday, the same day as a funeral Mass scheduled to be held for his dad at St. John the Baptist Catholic Church.

In a sign of the emotional and legal complexities of the case, police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult even as they investigate possible abuse, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said. If convicted as a minor, the boy could be sent to juvenile detention until he turns 18.

But former prosecutor Wendy Murphy said that there is not enough evidence known yet to tell whether this murder fits that profile.

"It's an incredibly unusual case," Murphy told Early Show anchor Maggie Rodriguez. "We hear about 8-year-olds accidentally shooting a gun. This was execution style. So I think it's fair to say there was something pretty awful going on behind closed doors. Police have already talked about the investigation of this child being an abuse victim. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that this child was suffering terribly horrible things behind closed doors."

St. Johns police are hoping a judge will agree to try the boy as an adult but admit it's unlikely.

"There is no physical evidence that has been analyzed to link him to anything," the boy's defense attorney, Benjamin Brewer, told CBS News.

Brewer also said police questioned his client without representation from a parent or attorney and didn't advise the child of his rights.

"In Arizona you can be prosecuted in adult court at age 8. That's not true in most other states," said Murphy on The Early Show. "I think if it comes out this child was being abused, that he was desperate, this was his only way of defending himself against some terrible things there happening, you don't see a lot of public sympathy for keeping him in the juvenile justice system."

The boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services, said Apache County Attorney Brad Carlyon.

"He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."

Romero was from a family of avid hunters and wanted to make sure the boy wasn't afraid of guns and knew how to handle them, Sauter said. The boy's stepmother had suggested he have a BB gun, the priest said.

It's not unusual in a state like many around the West with liberal gun laws for children to learn early how to shoot small animals in the company of their fathers. But it might have been too much for an 8-year-old, Sauter said Saturday.

Murphy said encouraging an 8-year-old having a gun was "part of the recipe for disaster.

"But I don't think that's enough of an explanation, not nearly enough. He was 8. I mean, that's barely old enough as a matter of law to be held accountable. I don't think that's going to be the only explanation."

The boy's reported confession is also being examined.

How much truth can be imparted on such a statement from a child? Rodriguez asked.

"What's interesting about 8-year-olds is that we think they fantasize, they believe in, you know, Power Rangers and things like that, but they tend to be real credible when it comes to courtroom testimony and providing information to the police for the simple reason that, at 8 years old, they're not very good liars."

A Tragic Loss In A Tight-Knit Community

People in this small community are reeling from the killing of Romero, and they will likely turn out in droves for his funeral.

"I don't think this church is big enough to handle it all," said Sauter.

"The recent tragedy in our community has been very sad, an incident that makes us ask 'Why?' yet pulls our citizens together with love and support," said Ross Overson, mayor of the town in eastern Arizona. "Without exception, the entire community has been affected by this tragic loss. No community can begin to understand how something like this could happen."

Ask anyone here, and chances are they know a member of the Romero family.

"Everybody knows them because there's like 100 of them," said Marybeth Ellsworth, who played the piano at Romero's wedding in September. "They're very well-liked in the community."

[slim1h2o]

Well I didn''t want to speak the unthinkable yesterday, but if both men were abusing this kid, then they got what they deserved.

And the use of a gun was appropriate in this case...

[usmc1968]

This child is just to young to be held accountable in a adult court, I am still baffled to this case, 8 year olds like the story says, live in fantasy, cartoons, imaginary life of power rangers, nija turtles, my 10 year old son used to tell me when he grows up he wanted to be a ninja turtle hero, so for anyone to suggest this child needs adult criminal court, I say their humanity is in question, and this case has to many possible motives, maybe abuse, sexual or non sexual, a absent biological mother who just happens to visit prior to the murders, execution style murders, apparently the biological mom has a air tight alibi, or maybe not, depends on facts if reported accurately in news, does she have a boyfriend, where was he when all this happened, then there is the step-mother, where was she, if this boy did this, something drove him to it, if he falsely confessed by being coercively interrogated by police in absence of guardians, legal counsel, it is a travesty of justice, and my first impression is these law enforcement officers ought to be fired!

[crystalblue3]

*** would you give an 8 year old a gun? Yes yes, I know it''s a constitutional right but since when does common sense fly out the window? Absolutely ludacris and completely avoidable.

[crystalblue3]

ohhh wait. Silly me. Common sense? What''s that?

[getoffmine1]

If there was physical abuse going on then you cannot really blame the kid. If there was not and he just did this he does need to be charged as an adult regardless of his age. If he could shoot his father and another on a whim he should never be free again. It would not be fair to those of us who follow the law.

[usmc1968]

My dad taught me how to shoot .22 cal. rifle, pistols at about this boys age, dad never kept his guns under lock and key as I would do today, but thats another generation and era, I fully admit any father whom leaves a gun of any kind, out not under lock and key is asking for tragedy, many a case has occured where young children accidently shoot themselves or someone else with unlocked guns, my son age 10 has a .177 cal. pellet rifle, never uses without my direct supervision, it is kept under lock and key, cannot imagine training him in gun use yet, but do not judge those who do, since I was taught at around this boys age with no adverse effects, but not all kids are the same, not all are at the same level of maturity! Guess that is where parenting comes in, this case haunts me since I see a child of 8 ruined for life, no matter what the circumstances of this case, his dad dead, him accused, rightly or wrongly, many hard hearted demanding he get adult court treatment, juvenile detention till 18/21 depending on the laws of Arizona, and I am a resident of Arizona and do not know the law of the land here on that issue. My first impression is to question his guilt based on a coerced confession, many children older than him have been coerced into false confessions, news reports first reported he denied guilt, then confessed after agressive questioning by law enforcment!

[evian_ycnan]

"In Arizona you can be prosecuted in adult court at age 8. That''s not true in most other states," said Murphy on The Early Show.

I think that is not true in most civilized nations. I dunno, let''s try an 8-year old as an adult and see if anyone compares it to stoning a 13-year for adultry...

Arizona -- Home of John McCain, `nuff said.

[evian_ycnan]

*** would you give an 8 year old a gun? Yes yes, I know it`s a constitutional right but since when does common sense fly out the window? Absolutely ludacris and completely avoidable.

Posted by crystalblue3 at 08:52 AM : Nov 10, 2008

Two weeks ago, some idiot let his kid fire an Uzi on full-auto. It kicked up and blew the kid''s head off. Maybe this is Karma.

Regards,

[usmc1968]

I still see it suspicous this boys biological mom visited the weekend before this incident, returns to Mississppi, then back in Arizona post shooting, one has to ask did she induce this by suggesting to a impressionable 8 year old, he could be with her if dad was dead, or worse did she do it, herself, since the acts reported seem execution style a little advanced for a 8 year olds abilities, did she have a 2nd unknown party do it, a boyfriend maybe, hired killer, who knows, but I am just a suspicious natured fellow, and find it hard to believe a 8 year old is capable of such a premeditated act! One might wonder if mom did not have custody, she was either unfit, or did not want custody, in our biased family court system moms have to be unfit to not get custody and dads rarely get it unless mom simply does not want it or is so unfit the court will not let them have custody, this case is suspicious under the circumstances of her visit, right after dad remarries, a new stepmom, whom the real mom might resent, be angered at someone replacing her, murder and violence has occured for less!

[evian_ycnan]

Well I didn`t want to speak the unthinkable yesterday, but if both men were abusing this kid, then they got what they deserved.

And the use of a gun was appropriate in this case...

Posted by slim1h2o at 08:38 AM : Nov 10, 2008


If this goes to an Adult Court, you can bet your last dollar that the defense attorneys will push that angle, whether true or not, slathered with a lot of insinuation of homosexual activity hoping to get jury nullification.

In juvenile court, the truth is more likely to come out. There''s no percentage in trashing the victim when you are before the judge.

[usmc1968]

I find the 2nd amendment nut cases or anti-gun nut cases, trying to use this tragedy for thier political views dispicable, low life, and truly shows how sick society is, here we have a 8 year old boy, life ruined no matter what the circumstances, and these two adversary groups can only see a political issue! Neither group seems to me even capable of seeing the human tragedy here! No wonder in our last election, the far right lost, and the far left was marginalized, and a centrist won election! I believe in 2nd amendment but also believe some common sense laws need to be had, one does not need a machine gun to hunt, nor does one need to ban guns simply because someone committs a crime! Since criminals rarely buy their guns legally anyway!

[usmc1968]

One thing for sure this case will be debated, questioned, investigated, and only when all the real facts are out will any of us know the truth, we all are going on rumors, news reports that might or might not be accurate, just to early to tell, all I can do is pray for this young child, who is the real issue here, the deceased are in gods domain now, the living in ours!

[slim1h2o]

In juvenile court, the truth is more likely to come out. There''''s no percentage in trashing the victim when you are before the judge.

Posted by Evian_Ycnan at 09:14 AM : Nov 10, 2008

Sadly you are right. In todays Justice system, all parties'' sling mud at each other and hopes the jury favors their side, or who deems themselves more credible, instead of getting at the truth. That''s why our Justice system has broken down.

No matter what happened in this situation, the kid should be tried in Juvenile court. He''s just too young for Adult court in my estimation.

[rixmix98]

I find the 2nd amendment nut cases or anti-gun nut cases, trying to use this tragedy for thier political views dispicable, low life, and truly shows how sick society is, here we have a 8 year old boy, life ruined no matter what the circumstances, and these two adversary groups can only see a political issue! Neither group seems to me even capable of seeing the human tragedy here! No wonder in our last election, the far right lost, and the far left was marginalized, and a centrist won election! I believe in 2nd amendment but also believe some common sense laws need to be had, one does not need a machine gun to hunt, nor does one need to ban guns simply because someone committs a crime! Since criminals rarely buy their guns legally anyway!

Posted by usmc1968 at 09:17 AM : Nov 10, 2008



One of the most logical post I''ve ever read.

[usmc1968]

Can see the "Peta nut cases" are out in force today, animal murderers, guess when they go buy their processed chickens, beef, they feel superior not having killed the animals themselves. I find it not surprising the nut cases come out of the wood work, have mercy for animals but cry for the blood, flesh of a 8 year old and find glee in the two deceased deaths! Makes one realize why bible says the blind biblical goats will not be known to Jesus on judgment day, they really are blind!

[nolalou]

According to news reports on TV this morning, this is being handled in Juvenile Court, he will not be tried as a adult. If found guilty, he would be placed in some type of group home, since even juvenile detention centers are not equipped to deal with someone as young as 8 years old.

[evian_ycnan]

TWOFER:


1) ... since even juvenile detention centers are not equipped to deal with someone as young as 8 years old. -- Posted by nolalou at 09:36 AM : Nov 10, 2008

And still, the law allows an 8-year old to be tried as an adult even if the juvenile centers can handle them... Hmmm... Arizona is bizarre.

2) Can see the "Peta nut cases" are out in force today, animal murderers... Posted by usmc1968 at 09:24 AM : Nov 10, 2

One post is "out in force"? Dood, you need to recalibrate your threat meter. Next you`ll be posting about black helicopters and tinfoil hats...

[tonynbrandy]

The boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services, said Apache County Attorney Brad Carlyon.

"He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."
i am a former victim of abuse and NEVER said a word for fear of death to my family....so we dont know what may have happened in that house behind closed doors. Of course in the same breath nothing may have happened and it will have to play itself out in court to find out the truth. I can only speak for what happened to me and it was never reported and i was an honors student so grades in school and reported abuse doesnt mean a thing. and 8 years old is such a young age yet they SHOULD know right from wrong...this is a tragedy.

[daddioof3]

why are you painting this kid as a victim of child abuse already without any information? didn''t the media learn anything from the jon bonoit murder?

[karl_in_az]

I wonder what good these ''comments'' provide for society, other than as proof that 99% of the people that read the news and then post comments are abject
morons...

[armydog2]

This little boy''s life is ruined, it should stay in juvenile court and they need to find out what prompted this child to do this. This is really sad.

[yakshasa]

I can see no situation in which an eight year old child should be tried as an adult. Many children that age don''t even have a clear idea of what death really is (and I''m sure video game where you have multiple do-overs when you die don''t help clear up the concept)

[msthet1]

I sure hope that 8 year old boy followed the NRA guidelines for use of a firearm. I''m guessing he did because he hit what he was aiming for and did not hurt himself.

[vittoria1]

Various posters on several sites are either assuming that the mother must have incited this murder, or that the father must have abused the child. It is far too early to be making such assumptions about people we do not know. The one thing we can say with certainty is that 8-year-olds do not grasp the finality of death. For that reason, any one of myriad scenarios could be involved here. I suggest that we sit back and wait for more information.

[ici2i]

I''m guessing it probably is a case of sexual abuse and self preservation / defense. Apparently there was a priest involved in this story as well as two men living "together" so it makes it difficult to overlook the possibility. Sorry to the clergy or religious types but you still wear the stench of years of concealed abuse so it always occurs to me as a distinct possibility.

[skarrzpapi]

You know..ya gotta love Arizona..*** those Zonies..lol..they dont recognize MLK Day or Savings Time...I hope & pray this boy is provided any & all services to help him along...At a gut level, i think most of us sense there were "reasons" the boy did this..if not then...whether justified or not...this is a bad one for all of us!!!

[blessed1959]

I guess this child was Pro-Choice. He chose not to have a father..

[skarrzpapi]

"karl_in_az"...i couldnt agree MORE!!! now you might put me in theat cat, but nonetheless i agree...lol..toooo dam funny!!!

[misands]

The idea of trying an 8 year old as an adult is crazy. For a young child to have done this is the sign of failure of the adults around him.

[skarrzpapi]

Another good reason for those of you in "looney Land" to have yourselves spade & neutered!!!...Early!!! ..I''ve heard the mother came out from the South, saw then boy, and has now gone back home...i hope im wrong about that...

[violist47]

Almost all we have to go on in this case is conjecture, but one fact stands out. This is an 8-year-old boy. Consequently, whether or not he is guilty of a crime, he needs help. Immediate and competent help.

[getoffmine1]

Almost all we have to go on in this case is conjecture, but one fact stands out. This is an 8-year-old boy. Consequently, whether or not he is guilty of a crime, he needs help. Immediate and competent help.

Posted by violist47 at 11:11 AM : Nov 10, 2008

if he is guilty and there was no abuse, what kind of help? Are you suggesting he should be let out inot the population when he is 18 or 21? How is that fair to those of us who follow the laws? It would put innocent people in danger, and why should we have to sacrifice our safety to benifit this kid?
If there was abuse or his mom contributed to this crime then that is different, but if the kid got angry about something and decided to kill his father he should never be aloowed inot society again.

[violist47]

This is a child who allegedly has done something he cannot possibly comprehend. 8-year-olds are not culpable under the law in any democracy I know of, except, apparently, in Arizona. Conceivably he needs to be under care for the rest of his life. There is no way to know that until and unless he is given a competent assessment. Whether or not he committed this crime, his father is now dead. His father''s friend is dead. This is a child in need of psychological assistance.

[blogthis1]

How can anyone with ANY brains give an 8 year a gun?? The father got what he deserved for being a dumazz.

[mediabrat60]

No matter what the incident, the kid is deranged and needs some serious help.

[evian_ycnan]

I wonder what good these ''''comments'''' provide for society, other than as proof that 99% of the people that read the news and then post comments are abject
morons... Posted by karl_in_az at 10:42 AM : Nov 10, 2008

Thank you, it`s not that often that the morons posting provide solid examples to accompany their hypotheses -- point noted.

[navyjimfl]

here we go again.....another stupid gun nut puts a deadly firearm in the hands of an 8 year old with no supervision....rest in peace moron....

[lissbell]

After reading this article two things came to thought..1. Did the biological mother have her hand in this (I''m thinking more towards this) 2. Abuse
Another thing that I''m wondering, do the Miranda Rights exist in Arizona? It has been stated that the child''s rights were not explained and he was not represented by an attorney &/or parent. Isn''t this illegal???? They talk about trying the kid as an adult yet they didn''t treat the child as an adult.

[kommoncents-2009]

If you are abusing a child and you give a gun to that child, well, I guess you get what you deserve.
Moron.

[skarrzpapi]

"iCi2i" I totally agree with you...very well said!!!

[skarrzpapi]

Yeah...let''s all decide to give this poor kid a break!! I''m thinking the odds of him being truly a nut...maybe 3% if that!!..so lets see what hapens... like alike of you..i''m thinking some form of abuse etc..sad sad sad..my Thot & prayers go out to all nvolved!!!......RIP

[three_g2]

I just read the story and it''s very sad. Parents need to become parents and not friends. Their kids will still love them. We all should go back to the Good Book "The Holy Bible" and apply God''s teaching. I''ve seen a lot of parents afraid to make their children angry because they know they haven''t endorsed a parent role. (2)getoffmine1, get back in school and learn to spell. I hope you''re not a home-schooler.

The 8 yr does need extensive help not punishment. His parents may have done enough of that.

[irishmick4]

skarrzpapi - As is almost always the case when people like yourself attempt to put down others living in parts of the country they do not, you succeed in doing nothing but showing your own ignorance.

First off, MLK is recognized in Arizona, and has been for many years.

Secondly, I believe what you mean to say is that people in the south should be SPAYED and neutered. A spade, is a shovel or a suit in a deck of cards.

Here''s hoping you have no offspring of your own to whom you will impart your particular brand of "wisdom" regarding other states and/or the people who live within them.

[apndrgn]

They are adapting. The son of a gun kid before this guy shot himself in the head with a mini uzzi. Evolution is a remarkable process.

[connapa]

This case may be very similar to the recent case outside of Springfield, Mass where an 8 year old shot himself (accidently) in the head with a fully automatic UZI- with parental permission and with a trained instructor beside him. Perhaps he was acting out something from a videogame and chose to use a real gun. These and other cases just emphasize that all weapons need to be properly secured when not in use.

[random_radar]

"This was execution style. So I think it''s fair to say there was something pretty awful going on behind closed doors."

Wrong! This is irresponsible conjecture from someone who should not be in a position to make this comment.

Just because a kid has a gun and knows how to use it doesn''t mean he was abused. We need the facts in an open trial to determine the what and why.

The right to trial by an impartial jury extends to everyone accused of a crime.

[apndrgn]

These weapons, properly secured, are safe to give to your eight year old.

[apndrgn]

you could give a nuclear davy crockett to your eight year old if properly secured. most people chose not to leave the keys in the car, another lethal weapon, with children around.

[witchesolace]

Excuse me but I beg to differ a child at the age of eight should know by then the difference of right an wrong,perhaps you should look up some old movies on this subject,may i suggest you seek out the demonseed or perhaps the good son would be more to your liking

[witchesolace]

oh an be careful about crocketts,thats an ancestorof mine lolol