SAN FRANCISCO, Nov. 9, 2008

Gay Marriage Ban Ballot Backlash

CBS Evening News: Californians Who Opposed Proposition 8 Are Outraged Over Its Passage

  • Play CBS Video Video Prop 8. Protests

    Protests continue along California's coastline with the passage of Proposition 8, which bans gay marriage statewide. John Blackstone reports.

  • Protesters against California's Proposition 8,  which banned gay marriage, marched the weekend after the ballot initiative was passed by voters. Photo

    Protesters against California's Proposition 8, which banned gay marriage, marched the weekend after the ballot initiative was passed by voters.  (CBS)

(CBS)  The passage of Proposition 8 - California's initiative banning same sex marriage - is sparking protests and division across the state, CBS Evening News correspondent John Blackstone reports from San Francisco.

Some voters who joined forces, just last week, to elect the President, now find themselves on opposite sides.

For the third straight day thousands of people marched in California, protesting the election night passage of Proposition 8 - banning same sex marriage.

Crowds continued to target the Mormon church, which poured millions into promoting the same-sex marriage ban and encouraged members to cross state lines to join the campaign. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger - who opposed the bill - says gay rights supporters were outmanned.

"They had a very strong campaign, the pro-proposition 8 people, and I think, they people who tried to defeat it and they did not have as good of a campaign or as much money behind it," Schwarzenegger told CNN's Late Edition.

But the breakdown of who voted for the bill is starting to raise concerns for some in the gay community. Exit polls show that while blacks made up 10 percent of the total vote, 70 percent of African-American voters supported Prop. 8. Whites, Hispanics and Asians were virtually evenly split.

African-Americans are historically more socially conservative and proponents of the ban tapped into that sentiment by seeking out black church leaders for support.

"It's not a civil rights issue, because as African-Americans we can't change the color of our skin," says pastor Edward Smith, who supported the ban on gay marriage.

The fact that African-Americans turned out in record numbers to vote for Barack Obama while overwhelmingly voting yes on Proposition 8 created personal conflict for some.

"I think the basis of my conflict comes from my upbringing in the church," says Jacquelynn Hawthorne, an Obama supporter.

That frustrates some civil rights leaders - they compare the struggle to the 1967 Supreme Court case of Richard and Mildred Loving, who were arrested in Virginia because interracial marriage was illegal in 16 states.

"Once we present this in the right way and we do the education we should do, I'm not worried at all because African-Americans believe in justice," says Alice Huffman of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

Gay rights advocates say they'll fight all the way to the Supreme Court, meaning protests like these may not end anytime soon.

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Video and Galleries from CBS Evening News

Add a Comment See all 733 Comments
by rosesnpearls November 9, 2008 11:19 PM PST
Build a bridge and get over it. The gay lifestyle is wrong, it is immoral, it is offensive. Stop trying to make society pay for the wickedness of your lifestyle.
Reply to this comment
by bcmgiffin2000 November 9, 2008 11:28 PM PST
The "Mormon" church did NOT "pour millions" into this campaign. CBS needs to get their facts straight.
Reply to this comment
by ioweign November 9, 2008 11:35 PM PST
The "Mormon" church did NOT "pour millions" into this campaign. CBS needs to get their facts straight.

Posted by bmcgiffin at 11:28 PM : Nov 09, 2008



Religions should be taxed like any other business...


Reply to this comment
by bcmgiffin2000 November 9, 2008 11:36 PM PST
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) donated no money to the Yes on 8 campaign (except for a nominal, and legal, in-kind donation of $2,078.97, to cover the travel expenses of leaders coming from Utah for a meeting). Individual members of the Church were encouraged to support the Yes on 8 efforts and, exercising their constitutional right to free speech, donated whatever they felt like donating."

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10842051
Reply to this comment
by darnedsocks November 9, 2008 11:38 PM PST
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF THESE SEXUAL DEVIATS HAVING A TEMPER TANTRUM! WAH! WAH! WAAAAAH! WHY DON''T THEY LOOK AT THE ROOT OF THEIR PROBLEM: THEIR CHILDHOOD SEXUAL ABUSE, AND RESOLVE IT THERE, INSTEAD OF FORCING THEIR PERVERSIONS ON THE REST OF THE WORLD? IT IS SOOOOOOOOOO DISGUSTING! GET A CONTRACT! MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN; IN THE BEGINNING IT WAS ADAM AND EVE, NOT ADAM AND STEVE! SHEESH! SO GROSS!
Reply to this comment
by yerhumps November 9, 2008 11:40 PM PST
Proposition 8 was the work of cruel religious fanatics, and passed by a cowardly, ignorant citizenry. It will not stand. Gay marriage is here to stay. In ten years or less, it will be legal in every state, once Obama levels the Supreme Court playing field with center-left appointments. It is, after all, supremely unconstitutional and un-American. Our best instincts, to grant and expand rights to our citizens, has been viciously betrayed by this piece of religious mischief.
Reply to this comment
by palindromemc November 9, 2008 11:40 PM PST
I find it interesting that a church that was so persecuted for being different has now taken the lead in doing the same to others. The morality of the LDS church has always been questionable. From Helen m Kimball, who married Joseph Smith at the age 14, to the restrictions on Blacks holding the priesthood, to fighting the ERA movement, to now fighting Gay rights.
I thought the LDS church believed in everyone''s right to live and worship as they see fit. Furthermore, the Doctrine and Covenants (A Mormon Holy Scripture) Says they believe in NOT GETTING INVOLVED in civil matters with the influence of any religion (D/C 134-9). And the LDS church didn''t sink their own money in, just asked members to do so, to the tune of 22 MILLION according to the SL Tribune.
In summary, a church founded on Immorality, should be the last to judge people. See Polyandry of Joseph Smith.. (He Married others mens'' wives in secret,(at least 10) as well as underaged little girls__several as young as 14.
Reply to this comment
by blublucollar November 9, 2008 11:45 PM PST
peabrained darnedsocks
Reply to this comment
by treehgr07 November 9, 2008 11:55 PM PST
If you do not want gay marriage then don''t have one. Anyone who says their marriage is threatened by a gay couple does not have much of a marriage to protect in the first place. Many people believe alcohol, dancing, and any holiday is immoral - that anyone would make such a statement about 2 people who want to express their committed relationship is astounding. Get over it. America was founded by non-conformists! If you want a country where everyone conforms to your sense of morality you should live in another country, perhaps Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, are a few that come to mind.
Reply to this comment
by nstag8ter November 10, 2008 12:01 AM PST
No matter if you like what a group or person says they have that right. I do not support ***. That%u2019s my right. Like it or not. I believe it to be not only against nature but against God. It is evident that most feel some what the same there is Cali. So what they are saying is we have to listen to what they say but we have no right to speak, because it offends them. Can they not see that what they are saying is highly offensive to me! Being gay to me is a sickness. These people are not mentally right, wires all crossed up.
Reply to this comment
by treehgr07 November 10, 2008 12:01 AM PST
*** guns and God.

Meanwhile the economy tanks and countless women are raped in the Congo.

The planet melts, the stock market tanks, unemployment soars.

And we roll in the mud over this one.

Sad.

Very sad.

Posted by doorgunner2
_______________________

If have often considered this very sentiment you have expressed and always arrive at the same conclusion, which is that people feel very inadequate and small to address the overwhelming needs of the world.

It is so much easier to identify gay marriage as a moral issue and to attack it, than it is to deal with the injustice in Darfur, Congo, Rwanda, China, etc. If only folks with such moral conviction put their energy into delivering food, safety, and a future to individuals around the world something could actually be accomplished. Instead they focus on tearing down people because they do not "approve" of a lifestyle someone has.
Reply to this comment
by palindromemc November 10, 2008 12:02 AM PST
Joseph Smith marries 34 (several under the age of 18)
Wives of Brigham Young= 52
Gay man marries???=0 only wants 1

Seems fair doesn''t it???

Sad :(

BTW Mormons who say that they no longer practice or believe in Polygamy?? LIARS
According to Doctrine and Covenants 132!!
You STILL BELIEVE IN POLYGAMY. Until 132 is removed from your scripture, you are not kidding anyone.

As Brother Brigham said----Monogamy is evil and those who don''t accept Polygamy will be damned.
good morals! way to go!
Reply to this comment
by treehgr07 November 10, 2008 12:02 AM PST
nstag8ter, being bigoted is a sickness.
Reply to this comment
by rudy6543 November 10, 2008 12:07 AM PST
How ironic it is that the racist Mormons, who claim that the Nephites were wonderous and white, while the Lamanites were cursed with dark skin, were able to tap into African Americans and get them to side with them through the propaganda they spewed. I wonder if people had hit back the Mormon church with their racism if they still would have been successful.
Reply to this comment
by edward1975-2009 November 10, 2008 12:09 AM PST
I see that the supporters of same *** marriages aren''t as tolerant as they profess to be when they condemn those in opposition. No one is saying you can''t practice your fetish, just keep it behind closed doors where it belongs. It''s about time a fringe group got the message that not everything is alright, and that there are boundaries that need not be crossed.
Reply to this comment
by treehgr07 November 10, 2008 12:11 AM PST
Edward1975 - your words, and the sentiment reflected within them, are the same words folks said about people of color, or people with different religious beliefs. It is called being prejudiced.
Reply to this comment
by kyleincali November 10, 2008 12:14 AM PST
Civil rights movements aren''t just related to African Americans. The women''s movement fought for civil rights, the Chicano movement fought for civil rights, and many others. No one chooses to be gay. If anything, people choose to be heterosexual when they aren''t. Why can''t we put differences aside and embrace diversity. I wouldn''t want a world of only homosexuals, or only White people, or only Christians. We all bring new ideas and practices that better the quality of life for everyone. That''s the tradition of America. Coming together in spite of our differences to make one incredible nation.
Reply to this comment
by susanhelit November 10, 2008 12:18 AM PST
The Mormon church paid for a bunch of lies - I hear all the time from people who believed their lying ads that prop 8 was about teaching chidren about gay *** in preschool, rather than the truth.

And whether or not they believe in gay marriage is irrelevant - if you don''t believe in it - don''t have one! Jews don''t believe in eating hot dogs - should they be able to ban the evil hot dogs for the rest of us? Mormons believed black people were evil - should their beliefs have lead to a ballot issue to put all black people in jail?

Your religious beliefs don''t belong in laws that apply to all of us.
Reply to this comment
by November 10, 2008 12:25 AM PST
As others have pointed out, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (there is no "Mormon Church") did not "pour millions" into the campaign: it made a modest in-kind contribution of about two thousand dollars for travel of its representatives to the coalition.

The allegation that the Church encouraged people to "cross state lines" in support of the measure is a new one -- and ludicrous. Next they''ll be invoking the Mann Act?

The Church has 740,000 members who reside in California, and they exercised their rights as individuals to speak freely on the issue.

As for hints of "outside" influence, the facts are also inconvenient to the mob in the street:

"No on 8" raised $38.4 million, with $12.0 million (31.2%) coming from out of state.
"Yes on 8" raised $36.1 million, with $10.7 million (29.6%) coming from out of state.

So "No" raised $2.3 million more than "Yes," with $1.3 million more than "Yes" coming from out of state.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-moneymap,0,2198220.htmlstory

Where are the cries of outrage about outside influence on the "No" side of the issue?

I''m disappointed, but sadly not surprised, at such irresponsible reporting from CBS.

Tracy Hall Jr
hthalljr''gmail''com
Reply to this comment
by rudy6543 November 10, 2008 12:27 AM PST
The Mormon church paid for a bunch of lies - I hear all the time from people who believed their lying ads that prop 8 was about teaching chidren about gay *** in preschool, rather than the truth.

And whether or not they believe in gay marriage is irrelevant - if you don''''t believe in it - don''''t have one! Jews don''''t believe in eating hot dogs - should they be able to ban the evil hot dogs for the rest of us? Mormons believed black people were evil - should their beliefs have lead to a ballot issue to put all black people in jail?

Your religious beliefs don''''t belong in laws that apply to all of us.


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Posted by SusanHelit at 12:18 AM

Unfortunately in our country free speech means free lies with no consequences. What would the Mormon Church say if those lies went the other way, against them, accusing them of conducting secret polygamous marriages or doing nasty things in their Temples ceremonies? They would be screaming to the top of their lungs. Sad that they want to play such games.
Reply to this comment
by rudy6543 November 10, 2008 12:31 AM PST
Posted by hthalljr at 12:25 AM

The Mormon Church got involved in something they should have stayed out of. It would have been one thing for the people to vote as they pleased, but for the Church to come all the way from Utah and spend millions to influence a vote speaks very poorly of an organization that is tax exempt, and just might end up losing that tax exemption in the future.
Reply to this comment
by imtuxy November 10, 2008 12:32 AM PST
I am one of two men who married. I love the man I married and proudly we wear our rings. We feel good about it and those family members who have been informed to date support and love us regardless. No mountains have melted, no floods have engulfed nations as a result and no thunderbolts have harmed anyone as a result. The joy and peace we feel is disturbed only by the intolerance of those who wish to take our human rights. Frankly I think those who hate in their hearts and/or heads, have the right to compose religions, clubs, and publications that express this point of view...just as those who love the diversity of life should share and express care for liberty. The issues are simple, human, humane and joyful. Same *** love is not new. Love is not new. Coupling is not new. Humans evolve. Think. Care. Focus. Rejoice.
Reply to this comment
by caldwellptr November 10, 2008 12:42 AM PST
Until recent times it was illegal or immoral to marry outside of your race, religion or even your ethnic group. And though it is legal, alot of people still have problems with it.

It is hard to believe that State and Local governments that are not allowed to discriminate by ***, religion, race and such enshrine in their Constitutions discrimination.
Reply to this comment
by nstag8ter November 10, 2008 12:44 AM PST
grlpwr3,

Its not being a bigot to not approve of homosexuals.
That''s your common attack on people who still believe in God. Its a waste of your time because it doesn''t intimidate me.
Reply to this comment
by tom90803 November 10, 2008 12:53 AM PST
In California, the "No on 8" group have the same rights and the right designation.

I read Prop 8 which defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman and Cal Family Code 297-297.5 which defines domestic partners as two same *** adults in an intimate and committed relationship of mutual caring. Marriage and domestic partners have the same rights with designations that accurately represent their relationships.

I read the California State Constitution Art 18 Sec 4 which allows constitution amendment via the proposition process.

The biggest irony is that the "No on 8" group cries discrimination because they can not use an opposite *** relationship designation for their same *** relationship designation. The "No on 8" have adopted "storm trooper" mentality and are forcing the public to submit to their cause through the media, court (California Supreme Court Case No. S168047) and marching in communities.

Many years ago, the ACLU won the right in court for the Nazi party to march in a Jewish Community in Skokie, IL. I didn''t think that was right because the holocaust surviors didn''t deserve to have a Nazi march. I see the "No on 8" group doing the same thing.

"No on 8" should accept the following: They already have the same rights with the right designation that celebrates their same *** relationship. They need to take a moment of pause and thoughtful reflection, instead of acting in an emotional state of rage and anger.
Reply to this comment
by rudy6543 November 10, 2008 1:00 AM PST
If people will remember, one of Matthew Shepard''s murderers was raised a Mormon. Does the Church in the end share some responsibility? This is the same Church that had no problem murdering a party of pioneers headed to California in 1857. The Mormon Church needs a light shined on its activities, both past and present.
Reply to this comment
by missingamerica November 10, 2008 1:01 AM PST
Silly, objecting to gay marriage. Who do you think you are - God? You don''t think He can speak for Himself, if it upsets Him?
Reply to this comment
by andor3 November 10, 2008 1:07 AM PST
Prop 8 is not what it seems--the end of gaymarriage. Instead, it has accelerated the pace: now gaymarriage is a hot topic of discussion in work, home, stores, social settings, discussions unimaginable a year ago even. And even though Yes on 8 people lied about teaching gaymarriage in schools--now Prop 8 is current events and is being discussed at every level of education. Prop 8 is also having a negative impact on churches and religion across California, questioning their role in gobvernment, politics and tax exempt status.

This is going to be interesting.
Reply to this comment
by palindromemc November 10, 2008 1:11 AM PST
The Higher-Ups in the LDS church have there own issues.
Remove the beam from your own eye before you attack another group of people!!!

George Lee (Mormon General Authority) molested a little girl and plead guilty!

Stake Pres Clayton Hildreth Teen *** Crime (14 year old girl)

Bishop Arlo Atkin gets 14 year old teen pregnant

John D. Parkinson, M. D., Fairfield Stake President molested women and children__ also misdiagnosed them so he could "Cure" them and claim it was a miracle

Lloyd Gerald Pond __ church Spokesman *** with 11 year old girl

Timothy McCleve Bishop -molested 3 little girls under the age of 8

just a few examples of how LDS church should CLEAN HOUSE FIRST before judging others.
Reply to this comment
by doctajim November 10, 2008 1:11 AM PST
The U.S. has been violently prejudiced and passed laws against Quakers, Indians, Women, "Negroes", Chinese, Japanese, Mormons, and half a dozen other groups - and has had to apologise to each for denying them their civil "rights". Now, another attack against the rights of *** - which we''ll have to apologise again for in about 20 years because we''re too short sighted to realize - you can''t pass laws to deny rights to people who haven''t comitted any crime!!! Hitler did it with the Third Nuremberg Law in 1936 - are American Christians and Muslims advocating a Nazi Theocracy?!
Reply to this comment
by lunarshanna November 10, 2008 1:15 AM PST
In 50 years everyone is going to look back at this ban and think its outrageous, just as now we look back at slavery and segregation. Tuesday''s election was bittersweet. One minority witnessed the culmination of their civil rights movement while simultaneously crushing another civil rights movement.
Obviously most people that voted yes did so on the basis of their religious beliefs. I have more faith in God than to really believe that God is a prejudiced, bigot. By the way Jesus never made any mention of homosexuality. I''m sure people can come up with all kinds of convoluted explanations for their pro 8 votes, but the FACT is that it results in bigotry and prejudice against a minority group. There will always be homosexuals, there always has been, even in other species. It''s time for people to put aside their archaic beliefs that lead them to believe that it is ok to discriminate against another group.
Reply to this comment
by govwatch-2009 November 10, 2008 1:17 AM PST
God has spoken and accordingly He is upset. Marriage is a Biblical word representing the union of a heterosexual couple. It was written into law by God fearing men that used it correctly to legalize a civil union between a heterosexual couple. Yes on means to keep it that way and not to evolve it into something other than its original intent. The *** can still have there legal union with all the rights therein. Just don''t call it marriage.
Reply to this comment
by andor3 November 10, 2008 1:18 AM PST
guess what? In California you cannot teach kids about health and family issues without their parents permission. But the Constitution is required.

So a NO vote on 8 would have kept it a private, personal matter and parents could talk to kids when they wanted. YES on 8 makes it public policy, current events, and forces it to be taught in schools.
Reply to this comment
by rhs648 November 10, 2008 1:20 AM PST
Prop 8 is not what it seems--the end of gaymarriage. Instead, it has accelerated the pace: now gaymarriage is a hot topic of discussion in work, home, stores, social settings, discussions unimaginable a year ago even. And even though Yes on 8 people lied about teaching gaymarriage in schools--now Prop 8 is current events and is being discussed at every level of education. Prop 8 is also having a negative impact on churches and religion across California, questioning their role in gobvernment, politics and tax exempt status.

This is going to be interesting.

Where is it written that *** have a right to marry? There is no such right. Gay marriage has not been recognized for thousands of years as a right by most societies. However, in America, it has been recognized that citizens have a right to determine whether something becomes a right through their state constitutions. The voters of California have spoken loud and clear. They have said no to gay marriage.
Reply to this comment
by dburfears November 10, 2008 1:24 AM PST
It never changes. It just evolves from one group to another over time.

Those who are in the majority want to create a minority with fewer civil liberties than they have. it is disgusting, but America has done it over and over again

Chinese

Blacks

Catholics

Hispanics

Italians

Jews

Germans

Irish

All were treated as second class citizens by the majority- they were denied everything from basic freedoms to the right to own property. Whites and hispanics were killed for getting married in the 1800''s. Blacks and whites were killed for marriage in the last century. Bigotry, fear, ignorance, and hate abound.

Yet today we again have people who, based on their "religion", will do away with the life , liberty, and pursuit of happiness of others who are "different" in their eyes.

Shame on my country. Shame on those who mistakenly consider themselves "Christian". For they are neither true to Christian ideas or good Americans. They are the worst of humanity- the fearful and the bigoted.

"Separate but equal" is the shame of America.

Reply to this comment
by dj03081955 November 10, 2008 1:24 AM PST
If Rosa Parks had thought that separate but equal was appropriate she would have stayed at the back of he bus. She did not she wished for equal access. Whatever Heterosexuals have Homosexuals should have
Reply to this comment
by stick1772 November 10, 2008 1:25 AM PST
whatever, you losers and freaks want to complain that we voted in a democracy on a subject and you lost. WAH WAH WAH... go cry to someone who cares. You will never get this passed anywhere in the USA. People dislike your freakish lifestyle and this will never change.

Stop trying to rewrite history of marriage being one man and one woman. You have civil right granted to same *** partnerships so stop trying to take away the true meaning of marriage.

You''re just using this as a way to get the USA to recognize same *** marriage and then force your way into the churches by saying they are violating your rights because they will never recogize same *** marriage. It is just your way of getting rid of any opposition to your sick lifestyle. This will never work and you are just making it harder on yourself by shoving it down peoples thoats.
Reply to this comment
by rlindley0 November 10, 2008 1:25 AM PST
Opponents of same-*** marriage refer to tradition and god as defining marriage. This is imposing a religious rule or tradition on other people, which exactly fits the definition of bigotry and it also violates religious freedom.
Reply to this comment
by rlindley0 November 10, 2008 1:26 AM PST
Opponents of same-*** marriage refer to tradition and god as defining marriage. This is imposing a religious rule or tradition on other people, which exactly fits the definition of bigotry and it also violates religious freedom.
Reply to this comment
by stick1772 November 10, 2008 1:27 AM PST
If Rosa Parks had thought that separate but equal was appropriate she would have stayed at the back of he bus. She did not she wished for equal access. Whatever Heterosexuals have Homosexuals should have


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Posted by dj03081955 at 01:24 AM : Nov 10, 2008

well, you will never have naturally born children like hetrosexuals do. Jamming sexual organs together from same sexes does not make babies.

You''re not the same so just accept the fact that you are different and not entitled to the sacrament of marriage.
Reply to this comment
by andor3 November 10, 2008 1:30 AM PST
"it has been recognized that citizens have a right to determine whether something becomes a right through their state constitutions"

not in California. the purpose of the Constitution is to ensure equal rights for all, and has been consistently interpreted to protect minorities from majorities in securing rights. No amendment that changes that is valid.
Reply to this comment
by andor3 November 10, 2008 1:35 AM PST
"You will never get this passed anywhere in the USA."

There is nothing to "get passed." The right of marriage is guaranteed in every state and all adults have that right. There is no doubt it will be recognized in the near future. However, what is at stake is the special treatment of so-called churches and religious groups trying to encode their values in to state law.
Reply to this comment
by rlindley0 November 10, 2008 1:36 AM PST
Opponents of same-*** marriage refer to tradition and god as defining marriage. This is imposing a religious rule or tradition on other people, which exactly fits the definition of bigotry and it also violates our religious freedom.
These traditions are thousands of years old and include several types of marriage both monogamous and polygamous. In the time of these traditions it was not understood that sexual orientation is a core part of personality, which does not change. With our current understanding of personality, our definition of marriage must be expanded. Recognizing same-*** marriage does not restrict or harm heterosexual marriage.
Reply to this comment
by stick1772 November 10, 2008 1:37 AM PST
Not one time has one of the gay and lesbian supporters answered my question of why you can''t just be happy with civil unions which grant you all the civil rights of marriage under the law. Why must you infringe on traditional marriage definitions that have been around since the beginning of time? Why must you infringe on religious values on the sacrament of marriage and want to redefine the definition.

You talk about equal right... Civil Unions grant you those rights. Why is it your goal to destroy the definition of marriage? Why must you impose your views over marriage? If your goal is equal rights you already have all the civil rights as those under traditional marriage through civil unions.
Reply to this comment
by rhs648 November 10, 2008 1:38 AM PST
The threat of taking Proposition 8 to the courts undermines the voice of the people. Activist judges repeatedly override the voice of the people. Most state constitutions give the citizens the right to modify their constitutions. Sadly, activist judges have hijacked something specificially given to the citizens. Just wanting something does not give us rights. Proposition 8 should be allowed to stand until the citizens of California choose to change it. Nothing could be more democratic than to let the citizens make that decision.
Reply to this comment
by blackyowe November 10, 2008 1:40 AM PST
stick1772, Indeed why? It''s a notch in their belts. Their actions say "If we can''t have what we want we will ruin the institution of marriage and take the children''s hope for a happy future with us.
Reply to this comment
by rlindley0 November 10, 2008 1:40 AM PST
Opponents of same-*** marriage refer to tradition or god as defining marriage. This is imposing a religious rule or tradition on other people, which exactly fits the definition of bigotry and it also violates our religious freedom.
These traditions are thousands of years old and include several types of marriage both monogamous and polygamous. In the time of these traditions it was not understood that sexual orientation is a core and unchanging part of personality. With our current understanding of personality, our definition of marriage must be expanded to include same-*** partners. Recognizing same-*** marriage does not restrict or harm heterosexual marriage.
Reply to this comment
by stick1772 November 10, 2008 1:41 AM PST
There is nothing to "get passed." The right of marriage is guaranteed in every state and all adults have that right. There is no doubt it will be recognized in the near future. However, what is at stake is the special treatment of so-called churches and religious groups trying to encode their values in to state law.


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Posted by andor3 at 01:35 AM : Nov 10, 2008

And that is your true goal. To destroy churches and religion because they oppose your lifestyle. Your goal is to destroy the last moral stance in this country and destroy the family unit and blur the line between sexes and ruin what little we have left in this country as far as a family unit is concerned anymore. We are supposed to just accept your lifestyle without question when we oppose that way of life. Why should we be forced to accept something that is against our religious views? We actually have religious freedom granted by our constitution. Nowhere is the sacrament of marriage granted to homosexuals in the constitution.
Reply to this comment
by gary2023 November 10, 2008 1:41 AM PST
It sounds like what the majority of these posts are trying to express is that everyone should tolerate the homosexual lifestyle, but they in turn do not have to tolerate someone who doesn%u2019t agree with their lifestyle. People who don%u2019t want their children indoctrinated because of another person%u2019s lifestyle shouldn%u2019t have to tolerate this behavior. The most ridiculous point is that most of these posts are from the same indoctrinated liberals who believe they think outside the box. So if you%u2019re all outside of the box thinkers, here%u2019s one for you. What if a pedophile decides he wants everyone to tolerate his lifestyle, why shouldn%u2019t they be given the right to act upon their desires and demand rights? They can use one of the same excuses the homosexuals use, God made me this way, and therefore it is okay. Here is where things get hilarious, I know most if not all of you are going to use the same argument against the pedophile that we use against the homosexual. Ultimately what we are arguing are certain rights for homosexuals, so why shouldn%u2019t a pedophile be able to argue his right to marry a underage child. Don%u2019t argue the obvious, that one is a adult and the other is a child. You don%u2019t have to go to the extreme, an example could be a 18yr old wanting to be with a 14yr old, not far off in age or intelligence. Liberals want to open one door not realizing they are opening all kinds of ridiculous possibilities.
Reply to this comment
by rlindley0 November 10, 2008 1:41 AM PST
Opponents of same-*** marriage refer to tradition or god as defining marriage. This is imposing a religious rule or tradition on other people, which exactly fits the definition of bigotry, and it also violates our religious freedom.
These traditions are thousands of years old and include several types of marriage both monogamous and polygamous. In the time of these traditions it was not understood that sexual orientation is a core and unchanging part of personality. With our current understanding of personality, our definition of marriage must be expanded to include same-*** partners. Recognizing same-*** marriage does not restrict or harm heterosexual marriage.
Reply to this comment
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