8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father

Police Investigating Possible Abuse As Motive In Double-Murder; Father's Friend Also Killed

(AP)  Police in this small eastern Arizona community are looking into the possibility that an 8-year-old boy who is charged with killing his father and another man with a rifle had been abused, the police chief said Saturday.

The boy, who faces two counts of premeditated murder, did not act on the spur of the moment, Police Chief Roy Melnick said.

"I'm not accusing anybody of anything at this point," he said Saturday. "But we're certainly going to look at the abuse part of this. He's 8 years old. He just doesn't decide one day that he's going to shoot his father and shoot his father's friend for no reason. Something led up to this."

A judge determined Friday that there was probable cause to show the boy fatally shot his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos, with a .22-caliber rifle.

Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone 8 or older. The judge ordered a psychological evaluation.

The boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services, said Apache County Attorney Brad Carlyon.

"He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."

In a sign of the emotional and legal complexities of the case, police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult even as they investigate possible abuse, Melnick said. If convicted as a minor, the boy could be sent to juvenile detention until he turns 18.

Police had responded to calls of domestic violence at the Romero home in the past, but authorities were searching records Saturday to determine when those calls were placed, Melnick said.

"We're going to use every avenue of the law that's available to us, but we're also looking at the human side," he said.

Melnick said officers arrived at Romero's home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday in St. Johns, which has a population of about 4,000 and is 170 miles northeast of Phoenix. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.

Romans had been renting a room at the Romero house, prosecutors said. Both men were employees of a construction company working at a power plant near St. Johns.

The boy went to a neighbor's house and said he "believed that his father was dead," Carlyon said.

Melnick said police got a confession, but the boy's attorney, Benjamin Brewer, said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.

"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid."

Prosecutors aren't sure where the case is headed, Carlyon said.

"There's a ton of factors to be considered and weighed, including the juvenile's age," he said. "The counterbalance against that, the acts that he apparently committed."

FBI statistics show instances of children younger than 11 committing homicides are very rare. According to recent FBI supplementary homicide reports, there were at least three such cases each year in 2003, 2004 and 2005; there were at least 15 in 2002. More recent statistics weren't available, nor were details of the cases.

Earlier this year in Arizona, prosecutors in Cochise County filed first-degree murder charges against a 12-year-old boy accused of killing his mother.

Defense attorney Mike Piccarreta, who is not involved in the latest case, said that each case has to be considered on its own merits, but that it would be hard for him to comprehend that an 8-year-old has the mental capacity to understand the act of murder and its implications.

"If they actually prosecute the guy, it's a legal minefield," he said. "And, two, society has to make a decision as to whether they want to start using the criminal justice system to deal with 8-year-olds. That doesn't mean you don't have a troubled kid."

Wednesday's homicides were the first in at least four years in the community, where most people know one another, Melnick said.

Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's biological mother visited St. Johns during the weekend from Mississippi and returned to Arizona after the shootings, Carlyon said.

Brewer said the boy "seems to be in good spirits.

"He's scared," he said. "He's trying to be tough, but he's scared."

[heather234]

That is messed up, the kid shoots his father and the father's friend and what I'm reading is he is going to get charged as a minor with 2 counts of murder. He will be out by the age of 18. He should be tried as an adult, he is able to make decisions to get dressed and do things why shouldn't he be charged as an adult for murder.

[Matt_is_awesome]

This is ridiculous! EIGHT is perfectly old enough to know not to SHOOT YOUR FATHER! People think that little kids are so confused, but COME ON! My sister is actually eight right now, and she ****ing knows well enough not to KILL MY DAD. And don't blame it on the dad. An eight year old should know not to fire on ANYONE. Try him, and throw him in jail for the rest of his life. He doesn't deserve freedom.

[slim1h2o]

Posted by lulubun at 11:39 AM : Nov 10, 2008

Me thinks you have issues that need to be addressed, have you seen your shrink today?

[slim1h2o]

But do they have to be shot by an 8-year-old kid? Whenever you have no feelings about killing animals your feelings about killing people are affected as well.

Posted by Professor209 at 09:44 AM : Nov 10, 2008

Only you would equate the killing of a pesky critter, that has no redeeming quality to mankind, and is known to spread diseases to man, to shooting humans.

[slim1h2o]

Posted by usclimey at 09:34 AM : Nov 10, 2008

Prairie dogs are like woodchucks, ground hogs in some areas as they are known. Are invasive, and causes alot of damage. And in some areas where they reside, are being over run by them. That''s why they shoot them, population control..

BTW, Prairie dogs are a different species from woodchucks though, they just have the same habit of digging into the ground, and creating holes.

[slim1h2o]

is the equivalent of a fingernail up a blackboard only in cyberspace.

Posted by remrafdn at 09:31 AM : Nov

Very well put!!

[slim1h2o]

Like I said,,read the up-date, you twit.

And yes, you are schoollord, you don''t fool anyone.

[slim1h2o]

Professor209 at 08:38 AM : Nov 10, 2008

You better read the up-date on this story,,,,it''s on another article that the kid may have been abused..

[catlady1412]

Let''s not ban guns. Let''s ban stupid people from having guns. Two little kids involved in gun fatalities lately? Um, don''t give little kids guns!

[hunterdon6]

You people haven''t heard all the story. Maybe the kid was being sexally abused, or mentally abused, or phyically abused and the society has done nothing to protect him. If that is the case, we are to blame. Plus all the violence this 8 year old saw on TV and the movies, maybe he felt it correct to kill his abuser. Guns don''t kill by themselves, it takes a person to pull the trigger. But remember, baseball bats kill, knives kill, ropes kill, cars kill, whiskey kills, cigarettes kill, are we going to remove all of these items from society?

[ffoulkes-2009]

The stats and figures support my claims. The solution is to reduce the prevalence of guns or to designate an island just for gun owners!~ "LOL"

Posted by Professor209 at 06:35 PM : Nov 09, 2008
_____________________________________________________
Gun owners have half a continent designated to them and guaranteed by the Constitution...

[meinnv]

If you were meaning about the gun laws that is....

[meinnv]

Everything you just described is exactly how it already is..


Posted by legacyABQ at 11:21 PM : Nov 09, 2008


There are those who would disagree and say we could do more. I too feel as though we have enough safeguards in place, but it is others who don''t.

The only thing remaining is to just ban personal firearms entirely; which wouldn''t work either.

In any case this is truly a tragic story with more to it than what is being released.

[legacyabq]

Posted by meinnv at 09:25 PM : Nov 09, 2008


Everything you just described is exactly how it already is..

[butterflync]

"Responsible" gun owners are about as common as "responsible" pet owners. We saw what happened in this case. Yet as a society, we want to keep giving folks the benefit of the doubt. So just the pet doo that ends up your yard, we keep overlooking the dead bodies as they pile up (folks killed by relatives due to improper gun storage).

I remember as a child going to a piano teacher''s home where her husband had all his hunting guns on display, no locks. At best it was creepy....at worst it could have been deadly with all the kids that came in & out for lessons.

[zykracosmos]

The kid''s mom and dad were divorced. His dad remarried in September. His real mom came to visit him last weekend. Sounds like a motive could be that he blamed his father for the divorce and couldn''t accept the stepmom. Other guy living there is the mystery. Why kill him? It''ll all come out. The kid will tell his mother why he did it.

[schmidtkids]

The kid is the perp. - hardly the "victim".
Secondly, his daddy was the one who showed him how to use the weapon and was an avid hunter - so it sounds like there''''s at least one less a$$hole out there, as a result of this.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by cdfoxtrot5 at 09:20 PM : Nov 09, 2008
Ok I realize the child is the perpetrater or however you spell that word but he is only 8 years old, I have 8 year old twin boys and they would not know how to plan a murder, if they just said that the boy got the gun and shot both of these people then fine, I believe that a child could do that but they said "premeditated" like he spent days planning how he was going to kill these men and that is what bothers me

[meinnv]

this story does have some disturbances to it.

Meant to say "while I am not one for getting into the "gun debate""....

Sorry if that didn''t make sense. Then again, this story doesn''t make sense.

[meinnv]

I believe those who have the legal right to, and are responsible enough to, should own a hand gun for protection, and a rifle for hunting should they wish. Again, a personal choice.

BUT....ff they can''t take proper care of their weapons, they should lose them.

AND........anyone who does not have the legal right to own a gun, who commits a crime with a gun should face tougher penalties. ACTUALLY make that ALL GUN CRIMES.

That way people will think twice (those who do stop and think) how much responsibility goes into owning the firearm.

[meinnv]

Also, if this father did not have his weapon stored properly, being locked in a cabinet or have a gun lock, then he was an irresponsible gun owner and had he lived, I would have advocated him losing his weapons.

Responsible gun owners DO NOT let anyone have access to their weapons unless they are trained as well as the owner is.