SAN FRANCISCO, Nov. 3, 2008
Calif. Gay-Marriage Advocates Get Personal
Gays, Advocates Encouraged To Tell Co-Workers And Neighbors Why Their Votes Matter
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Calif. Gay Marriage Under Fire
Proposition 8 seeks to overturn the California Supreme Court's decision that gay marriage is legal. And, as John Blackstone reports, millions have been raised on both sides of the controversy.
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(AP Photo/Gary Kazanjian)
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Bob Sodervick, right, waves the gay pride flag outside of City Hall in San Francisco, where same-sex marriage is currently legal. Proposition 8 seeks to change that. (AP Photo/Marcio Jose Sanchez)
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Photo Essay
Taking The Plunge In Calif.
Festive atmosphere as gay and lesbian couples take their marriage vows.
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Timeline
Gay Marriage Goes Global
A look at the nations that have passed laws recognizing same-sex marriage.
Same-sex couples who have married since June knocked on doors in neighborhoods across the state on Sunday to share stories with the voters they hoped to persuade to defeat Proposition 8.
In recent weeks, other gay opponents of the ban, including a Roman Catholic priest, a former Republican mayor and a small-town newspaper editor, came out of the closet to show how the issue cuts across religious and social lines.
Proposition 8 has turned into this year's most expensive election question aside from the presidential race. Religious and civil rights groups have poured money and effort into the drive, making it one of the nation's most closely watched races.
When California's Supreme Court declared same-sex marriage legal, most polls showed majority support around the state. That is not the case anymore, reported CBS News correspondent John Blackstone.
"I am really worried," Willie Brown, a former mayor of San Francisco told CBS News.
Brown, one of the wise men of California politics, said the battle over Proposition 8 is raising passions, and money, across the country.
During his 23 years as a priest in the San Joaquin Valley, the Rev. Geoffrey Farrow offered solace to a mother who did not know how to relate to her lesbian daughter and to an 11-year-old boy who thought he might be gay.
Yet it was not until some parishioners confided they were confused about how to vote on Proposition 8 that Farrow, 50, decided he had an obligation to minister to a bigger audience - even if it meant publicly disagreeing with his bishop and other church leaders.
"By asking all of the pastors of the Diocese of Fresno to promote Catholics to vote yes on Proposition 8, the bishop has placed me in a moral predicament," Farrow began a homily he gave Sunday, Oct. 5. "They are making a statement which has a direct, and damaging, effect on some of the people who may be sitting in the pews next to you today."
He asked his parishioners to consider that their votes "can cause other human beings untold happiness or sorrow for a lifetime." Then he concluded by observing that he was prepared for any consequences of his words.
Farrow had revealed in response to a reporter's question just before the Mass that he was gay, but he did not disclose his sexual orientation to his parish.
Within days of his homily, Farrow was relieved as the St. Paul Newman Center's pastor and suspended without pay for contradicting church teachings and bringing scandal to his parish. He has retained a lawyer for a disciplinary hearing; the diocese has not commented on the case.
Former Folsom Mayor Glenn Fait has found a colorful way of describing his allegiance to the Grand Old Party.
"I like to say I'm a Lincoln Republican when it comes to civil rights, a Teddy Roosevelt Republican when it comes to the environment and a Reagan Republican when it comes to the economy," said Fait, a former city councilman and mayor of the Sacramento suburb made famous by the Johnny Cash song about the prison there.
His political experience and affiliation, as well as his background as a lawyer, made him a good No on 8 ambassador, Fait knew. But he had another card to play, and he laid it on the table in a quarter-page advertisement in his hometown newspaper Oct. 22.
"As a gay man, I have a personal interest in Proposition 8. My civil rights are at stake," wrote Fait, 65. "That is one reason I ask the people of Folsom to vote no."
Scott Shackford has spent the last six years in Barstow, in the high Mojave Desert between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. The editor-in-chief of the Desert Dispatch has lived as openly gay for most of his adult life.
"Small, modestly conservative towns like Barstow know what it's like to feel powerless in the face of the majority," he wrote in an opinion piece published Oct. 23 in which he urged his readers to vote no on Proposition 8. "I come to you now from a position of powerlessness."
The column was the third Shackford, 37, had penned on a gay rights issue in the past four years.
While writing about Proposition 8, Shackford said he had to persuade the community that while he respected the fear associated with same-sex marriage, giving him a new right did not take threaten anyone else's freedom.
"As a gay person, you have to be able to live in the same world as these people, and they have to be able to live in the same world as you," he said.
© MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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See all 111 CommentsThis in-your-face, confrontational demand for forced acceptance of queer lifestyles will only create more hate and intolerance than they can handle. I will not accept marriage of queers and I am feeling more resentful the more they keep pushing.
They should live their lives quietly and be thankful every minute they are able to do that. If this marriage law is left on the books, another societal divide will bring more problems than they can imagine. This country is turning into an abyss of despair for the masses and the result is predictably civil unrest and chaos.
Any law that attempts to force citizens to accept something as egregiously offensive and repugnant as same gender marriage, will only fan the flames of social resistance.
Proposition 8 must pass or this issue will lead to more problems than one can imagine.
We knew there was a problem with easy mortgages, but we chose to ignore it-the result is obvious.
So many decisions lately were incorrect because we gave into political expediency. Now everybody is trying distance themselves from involvement in those decisions.
What will be the result of the decision on prop 8?
I can''t wait for the sociopaths'' twisted response to my open ended question.
This approach would be the American version of the Taliban.
Socialismsux: Sort of implies that those who do not agree with you have no morals
...I got no problem with ''Civil Unions''...just don''t use the term ''Marriage''...it mocks God...not a very good idea.
...what part of the word "NO" don''t you people understand!
Posted by obiden08 at 07:29 AM : Nov 03, 2008
The questions had no opinion either way-they were merely verbal Rorschach or inkblot tests to see what someone would read into them.
Someone with an anti homosexuality bent would have read something else into them.
Like inkblot tests you saw what you wanted to see.
Ok thank you it was just really ambiguous and I didn''''t know which way it was leaning or if it was leaning at all.
Posted by obiden08 at 08:46 AM : Nov 03, 2008
It was intended to be ambiguous-read the last line in the original post indicating that the open ended questions were made for the purpose of eliciting an extreme response.
-------------------------------------------------------- posted by obiden08
...it is God that taught me about how wrong it is...and God ain''t dead... but you are definately ''Dead Wrong'' in your thinking!
...good luck with theat fire and brimstone thing...c-ya, wouldn''t want to b-ya!
Please vote No on Proposition 8 in California
...I got no problem with ''''Civil Unions''''...just don''''t use the term ''''Marriage''''...it mocks God...not a very good idea.
...what part of the word "NO" don''''t you people understand!
Posted by piercetheval
What happened to seperation of church and state???? We are all equal under the law.
...by the way did you happen to notice all the fires around Calif this past spring and summer that occured right after the Gay Marriages here commenced?
I *** sure don''t want to be within a hundred miles of San Francisco if this thing passes...which I don''t beelieve it will... it just maybe, and probably is, a moot point...but worthy of my disdain!
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Posted by hippychicky at 09:40 AM : Nov 03, 2008
...It''s obvious you don''t understand the difference between a Marriage and a Civil Union.
...one more time...Marriage is a Religious Rite!
You are correct in saying the gov''t has no say in such matters. If YOUR church or religion wishes to perform "Marriage Ceromonies" for Gay or Lesbian couples...go for it!
...All weddings performed outside of Church or without a minster of that particular Faith are nothing more than ''Civil Unions''...the gov''t has no right to call it a "Marriage" in the first place.
California will have no other choice but to NOT recognize marriage in any sense of the word to meet the requirements within the State Constitution. All the legal rights "marriage" carries will be moved under civil partnerships/unions for all couples - heterosexual and homosexuals alike. "Marriage" will become nothing more than a religious ceremony between the Church, Deity, and Couple with no inherent legal rights associated. Thus, the State will have created a State Constitutional Amendment which makes a law which forbids a CHURCH from performing "marriages" between same-*** couples - thus it violates the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution - thus its an unconstitutional law and will be thrown out - regardless of how many people voted for it.
Again this is not a religious issue. This is a civil rights issue. You can list scripture and be disdainful all day long, but it doesn''t change the facts. Equal under the law means just that.
I''m voting NO on 8!
But marriage is tough and menopause is a total freak show...are you ready for that ?
Will this mean that lifers in prison would be able to marry their cell mates?? They''re already "Husband & Wife" for all intent & purpose anyway.
God does exist, he is on his throne,and NOTHING gets by him. Deep down inside, we all know this. Bury it deep enough, though, and suddenly, it''s all about "my rights" and "I deserve". I am not going to argue about whether homosexuals have the "right" to marry. It is not something that should even be brought to light. As stated before, God is on his throne, and I for one, know the day is coming when he says "enough!"
Whether you believe that or not does not matter unless you are one who does not see. The FACT,the REALITY, still remains. HE is the great I AM! Not you.
He stated in his word that it is an abomination to him and destroyed two cities( Sodom and Gomorah)for the sexual immorality taking place. Do not disguise what is really going on here with the word "marriage".
What''s next?
First at rhetorical question. Why are public facilities such as the showers at the YMCA or your local fitness center separated into male & female rooms??
Because men & women do not want people staring & oogalling them in a sexual way.
At the local gym that me & the wife used go to there are quite a few Gaay & Leesbian members that use those places as a way to check out new prospects. When I inquired with the manager about this he said that they do not cater or advertise to Gaay & Lesbian people & everyone is welcome. Knowing that these people take advantage of these facilities to get a free show of people they want to nail seems like a pretty scummy thing to do. At two separate times the wife had very masculine women solicit her for s.ex
while she was in the shower.(ya, they were naked too) I tried not to laugh when she told me, but she was very offended by it. I got to thinking how that scenario would be any different than if a man entered the womens shower & did the same thing. And it isn''t!! What is the solution to this problem??
1) If you allow Gay marriage, then soon you will be able to marry a dog. Do I really need to explain why this is dumb, take a logic class and get back to me?
2) Marriage is to procreate. What about those who are married who don%u2019t want or can%u2019t have children, should they be able to marry?
3) Marriage has always been between a man and a woman. Think you should find a new history book; look at medieval Europe or Rome, to name a few.
4) It is against God%u2019s will. Which God would that be your God, or the American God? Until God speaks directly about gay marriage, this is just speculation.
Finally, if you were gay, wouldn%u2019t you like the same rights as your straight friends and family?
Really was that a serious question...are you stating that g*ys should be segregated from straight society??
1) If you allow Gay marriage, then soon you will be able to marry a dog. Do I really need to explain why this is dumb, take a logic class and get back to me?
Yes, Einstein, explain it to me. In light of the current movement in Australia to categorize a chimp as being a "human", tell me why it is so off the wall to think that once you start to change the defenition of marriage you will ever be able to stop the changing to accomodate anyone who wants it changed. Tell me how you can be so sure it will never lead to someone wanting to change the defenition of marriage to incorporate an animal.
Just because you can does not mean you have to and does not mean you cannot use common sense to know when you should not.
You are striking out quickly here richard.
Dictionaries define marriage as one man and one woman.
Are you stating we should do what other nations do? Historical Japan has men seducing young boys, do you promote we do that too?
Strike 3 there richard.
God, if you believe in Him, does state it in the Bible. You might not believe in Him or the Bible but it does state it in the Bible.
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