Doing The Math On Candidates' Tax Plans

CBS Evening News Crunches The Numbers To Find Out How Each Candidates' Proposed Tax Policy Would Affect Your Wallet

(CBS)  CBS News asked the non-partisan Tax Policy Center to calculate what individuals' tax burdens would be under each of Barack Obama and John McCain's proposed plans.

The first example family had a modest income of $35,000 a year. Under the current law, that family gets a tax credit - a check from the government - of $2,765, CBS News correspondent Nancy Cordes reports.

Obama and McCain would give them even more: $1,400 more from Obama and $480 more from McCain.

The next family of four made $50,000, the median income. Half the country's tax filers make that much or less.

Right now their 2009 tax bill was slated to be about $772.

But McCain would double the tax deduction for children, dropping their bill to $51. Obama promises a new worker tax credit, which would actually wipe out their bill, leaving them with a refund for $232.

At $150,000, Obama and McCain's tax bills are nearly identical. Right now that family's bill is $18,370.

Obama would shrink it by about $1,000; McCain, by $1,200.

At $200,000, a family's tax bill would stay the same under both candidates. But at the top of the ladder, $250,000, things change.

Not under McCain, who continues to bill that family just more than $42,000. But this is where Obama's tax increase kicks in - in this case, by $600.

"The bottom line is neither man pays for his tax cuts," said Robertson Williams of the Tax Policy Center. "By our estimates, Sen. Obama's plan would increase the federal deficit by about $3.5 trillion over the next 10 years. Sen. McCain would be even worse - about $5 trillion."

Which suggests that unlike our four families, neither candidate is focused on balancing his budget - yet.

[swingset4u]

it would be a full blown tom and jerry joke show in middle east..anb WOULD END UP costing more $$ and more blood..

Posted by libluv2spit

And this differs from what is going on now??????????? OMG you''re DUMB!

[ecphory]

For an personalized calculation of your tax rates under each candidate''s proposals, check out http://mytaxcut.us. Based on public statements by both major-party candidates, Mytaxcut.us is a non-partisan effort. In addition:

-try designing your own tax scheme: see how different tax plans affect incomes and overall tax revenues

-learn how candidates'' proposals would affect earners at different income levels

-see how income tax rates have varied in recent U.S. history

[pensacola98]

It was very popular when Ronald Reagan just fashionably called it pork and attacked those who depended on it. Let''s take a look at the grants given to public education or to law enforcement agencies. Ronald Reagan would have called that pork, too. Was it a bad thing to buy computers for schools, or vehicles and modern crime fighting infrastructure like information networking equipnent for police departments? Reagan called those things pork, too. If criminals know a small city can''t affort modern infrastructure to fight crime, then guess where all the criminals go to conduct business....you got it - small cities.

If small schools don''t have modern facilities to teach, then guess where the least competitive people entering adulthood come from....you got it - small schools.

The citizens of this nation feel it is essential to be prepared for college or working adulthood with adequate education.

The citizens also feel that secure communities offer the best places for stable homes to thrive.

Redistribution of revenues is a vital part of extending opportunities to places that lack other means to upgrade and modernize their infrastructure.

Saying no to pork is like condemning all suburban and rural communities to a second class life and only giving opportunity to inner city metro areas.

[sivalleyguy]

CBS_Oliver, your stats are a bit irregular. You would be more consistent in saying top 10% earned over $129,400. Then indicate top 1% earned over $ 1 million. Using an average for top 10% blurs the nearly asymptotic growth as roughly one tenth of people make nearly 10 times more.

Also, as an serial entrepreneur since age 20 I have to take issue with Joe the Plumber. He literally has no clue about basic business accounting and tax returns and should be embarrassed to stand up in public and act as though he knows of what he speaks. The McCain advance people should give him a couple hour tutorial before sending him out again.

He, and apparently few other Americans, don''t know the difference between business gross revenue, business net income, and adjusted gross income. His proposed business may have $250K gross revenue, but he''d be one lucky small business owner (or one with a really stupid CPA) to show $80K in adjusted gross income - the amount upon which he pays income taxes.

[incog-nito]

It''s over. There''s nothing Obama or McCain can do to bring the economy back. The globalization genie is out of the bottle. Look again, and you will see that the outsourcing of jobs to other countries still continues unabated. There''s nothing that Americans do that workers in other countries cannot do at 1/10th the pay, or less.

When they opened the labor market in the name of "free trade", they are essentially asking the American worker to compete against people making a tiny fraction of their pay, working under sweatshop conditions with little or no labor laws or regulations. And they call that the "free market".

As long as this trend continues, there is no way the economy will come back. Only when the American worker''s pay is sufficiently lowered to the point where it doesn''t pay to outsource, then maybe the jobs will come back. Unfortunately this won''t happen for a long, long time.

[standlee5]

The big difference, and it''s big, is that one plan promotes economic growth and the other contracts economy. You can''t have an economic recovery when the only growth is govt.

[scallywag8]

UHHH? Do F@rts have lumps?

[scallywag8]

What does lipstick and pigs have in common? Palin!!!

[McHineguy]

It''''s over. There''''s nothing Obama or McCain can do to bring the economy back. The globalization genie is out of the bottle. Look again, and you will see that the outsourcing of jobs to other countries still continues unabated. There''''s nothing that Americans do that workers in other countries cannot do at 1/10th the pay, or less.

When they opened the labor market in the name of "free trade", they are essentially asking the American worker to compete against people making a tiny fraction of their pay, working under sweatshop conditions with little or no labor laws or regulations. And they call that the "free market".

As long as this trend continues, there is no way the economy will come back. Only when the American worker''''s pay is sufficiently lowered to the point where it doesn''''t pay to outsource, then maybe the jobs will come back. Unfortunately this won''''t happen for a long, long time.


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Posted by incog-nito at 01:51 AM : Oct 31, 2008

There is one possible solution. Americans are pretty resourceful. If we were to work together we could build factories that are 10 times as efficient as those in the third world. Of course we have to work together. Also, we have to get more people working to make things, less people wasting their time at government jobs.

Or, we could just throw in the towel and redistribute what we have.

[McHineguy]

Redistribution of revenues is a vital part of extending opportunities to places that lack other means to upgrade and modernize their infrastructure.

Saying no to pork is like condemning all suburban and rural communities to a second class life and only giving opportunity to inner city metro areas.


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Posted by pensacola98 at 01:22 AM : Oct 31, 2008

Except for the fact that the US government is a very inneficient redistributor. By the time you add the costs of red tape and the waste when rules require you to do things that dont apply in your community, you end up with about 50% of the money being useful. add to that, the communities that end up wasting the PORK and you get about 40% useful.

Nope, I aint buying it. There are better ways to fix problems for small communities.

[McHineguy]

As one already said - it''''s not the taxes, it''''s the spending...BTW...its the pork barrel spending, entitlement spending, foreign aid, and benefits paid to illegal aliens.


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Posted by pelosilover at 01:03 AM : Oct 31, 2008

Add to that the fact that only 60% of qualified Americans actually work. Some are disabled, some are housewives, but many just choose to not work. Others CHOOSE to work part time. Then about 20% of those that work are doing government paperwork to manage government programs (think IRS and redistribution). So the end result is that half of our country is riding on the backs of the other half. And we sit a fret about a few CEO''s who find a way to be overpaid. I think if we are going to redistribute wealth we need to redistribute work.

[McHineguy]

Dear Fellow Business Owners,



As a Business owner who employs 30 people, I have resigned myself to the fact that Barack Obama wlll be our next President, and that my taxes and fees, will go up in a BIG way.



To compensate for these increases, I figure, that the Customer, will have to see an increase in my prices to them of about 10%. I will also have to lay off 6 of my employees.



This really bothered me as I believe we are family here and didn''t know how to choose who will have to go. So, this is what I did. I strolled thru the parking lot and found 8 Obama bumper stickers on my employees'' cars. I have decided these folks will be the first to be laid off since they knowingly approved of these changes in tax law and the resulting consequences affecting our business and their jobs.



I can''t think of another fair way to approach this problem. If you have a better idea, let me know.



I''m sending this letter to all the Business owners that I know.

[incog-nito]

There is one possible solution. Americans are pretty resourceful. If we were to work together we could build factories that are 10 times as efficient as those in the third world. Of course we have to work together. Also, we have to get more people working to make things, less people wasting their time at government jobs.

Or, we could just throw in the towel and redistribute what we have.

Posted by Machineguy at 02:35 AM : Oct 31, 2008

I hope you''re right, although I''m not nearly as optimistic. I see in my workplace and those of people I know. First, the factories close down and move overseas. People thought that professional, white-collar office jobs would still be safe, but then the business units start closing down also, leaving only a skeleton crew at home.

If we can come up with new innovations then it may be OK, but I get the nagging feeling they will try to ship that overseas as well, as long as the labor imbalance is still there.

[bbinfla]

You mean to tell me these people making $250,000 a year are cring their eyes out because they will have to pay $600 dollars more in taxes.

Sorry, but I do not feel your effing pain!

[bbinfla]

Let''s see you make $250,000 a year, and your taxes go up $600. Wow you are really gonna have to tighten up the belt aren''t you?

[McHineguy]

Let''''s see you make $250,000 a year, and your taxes go up $600. Wow you are really gonna have to tighten up the belt aren''''t you?


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Posted by BBinfla at 02:57 AM : Oct 31, 2008


Not at all. You havent looked very far if you think its that simple. The problem is that our factories operate with stock holders capital. No capital, no factory upgrades, old machines, obsolete products. So, we need investors to send us money instead of sending it to companies in Ireland, Japan, Korea, etc. Investors send money to companies that pay the best dividends AFTER TAXES.

[incog-nito]

Assuming that this analysis is correct, here is my takeaway from it:

At the median income of $50K, which is where most Americans are, McCain''s tax cut is $51 vs. Obama''s $252.

At the top level, somebody making $250K would pay $600 more with Obama''s plan.

Both plans are flawed, but McCain''s plan costs $5 trillions over 10 years vs. $3.5 for Obama.

Don''t know about you, but I can easily see which plan would be better.

[McHineguy]

If we can come up with new innovations then it may be OK, but I get the nagging feeling they will try to ship that overseas as well, as long as the labor imbalance is still there.


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Posted by incog-nito at 02:51 AM : Oct 31, 2008

You could be right and it worries me too. But adding more taxes to our factories will speed the process. THIS TAX PLAN IS A CRAZY WAY TO COMPETE IN WORLD TRADE.

[McHineguy]

Going to bed. At least they havent taxed sleeping yet.

[keyboardman2]

with the taxes and the spending to be done in govt, people are gonna have to remember that whatever deficit we''re going to have left, you can blame it on good ole mr George W Bush. It''s gonna take a long time to clean it up and you can''t necessarily blame it on the next president unless he can balance the budget in 2 years. Don''t we have to be realistic, especially with the mess Bush has left?

[keyboardman2]

Have you noticed the high gas prices over the summer and the financial crisis we are experiencing now in the fall ....etc., just before Bush leaves office....how strategically planned. And people wanna vote republican for john mccain. How idiotic!!!!

[longtree-2009]

flat tax across the board of some percentage regardless of income. no deductions, just flat tax for everyone. simple and would think it would reduce size of many government agencies.

[longtree-2009]

this is the type of news article wyatt andrews should have written. a stare/compare, analysis of both candidates and not just the one. cbs should have tougher requirements of its correspondents.

[bigjoe-24]

Machineguy...........

I bet you''re doing great under the current tax system and the economic hardship it brings to the middle class :)

[martel_v]

Investors send money to companies that pay the best dividends AFTER TAXES. - Posted by Machineguy

Investors are NOT sending money to the company when they buy stock unless they''re buying shares which have been newly issued by the company, which is an infrequent occurrence. Secondly, most investors don''t buy stock based upon whether or not the company issues dividends, since the overwhelming majority of companies do not.

Investors buy stock in the companies which are most efficiently and effectively using existing revenues to increase future revenues, while maintaining a small percentage of profitability as revenues increase. Exceptionally high salaries and bonuses for those at the top of the corporate pyramid reduce the ability of the corporation to grow revenue and profit.

Higher tax rates for those individuals at the top of the pyramid result in reduced growth of their salaries and bonuses, which benefits the shareholders because that money is re-invested in machinery and personnel to grow revenue, and it also tends toward a reduction in the absurd spectacle of corporate executives being paid 450 times what their average employees earn.

When American corporations were growing to world market dominance, those at the top were looking at 92% tax rates, and consequently weren''t giving themselves ridiculous salaries and bonuses. In fact, in the 1950s and 1960s, CEOs and presidents of American corporations were earning 22 to 29 times the pay of their average employees.

[babooph]

The soc. sec. tax -convieniently "LEFT OUT"the boss & worker combined send in 16%-none of it written off -even the poor pay it ALL-the rich get most of theirs EXEMPTED!!!!-That is why benifits are endlessly reduced & the & goes into the general fund -mainly for the military for the protection of the rich !!

[tapsettle]

What tax plans? They are both stuffed as bush just lumbered the next several generations with the largest tax burden ever known. As if his ''war on terror'' costs werent bad enough, he now chucks in a trillion or so to bail out his corporate and banking buddies too. What a nation of dumbos that put him in the Whitehouse.

[abbe91]

"Saying no to pork is like condemning all suburban and rural communities to a second class life and only giving opportunity to inner city metro areas.
Posted by pensacola98 at 01:22 AM : Oct 31, 2008"

Do you think that most republican voters with the income of, say, Sam the plumber, would continue to vote republican if better educated ? Republicans have no interest in education for all suburban and rural communities ...

[popstom12]

Get the flaps ready

[paulmita]

For all you McCain supporters out there, here is a little poem I wrote yesterday morning before my first appt.
- See what happens when a hairstylist has toooo much time on her hands?
( a take off on " The Night Before Christmas ")

''Twas the night before elections
And all through the town
Tempers were flaring
Emotions all up and down!

I, in my bathrobe
With a cat in my lap
Had cut off the TV
Tired of political ***.

When all of a sudden
There arose such a noise
I peered out of my window
Saw Obama and his boys

They had come for my wallet
They wanted my pay
To give to the others
Who had not worked a day!

He snatched up my money
And quick as a wink
Jumped back on his bandwagon
As I gagged from the stink

He then rallied his henchmen
Who were pulling his cart
I could tell they were out
To tear my country apart!

" On Fannie, on Freddie,
On Biden and Ayers!
On Acorn, On Pelosi"
He screamed at the pairs!

They took off for his cause
And as he flew out of sight
I heard him laugh at the nation
Who wouldn''t stand up and fight!

So I leave you to think
On this one final note-
IF YOU DONT WANT SOCIALISM
GET OUT AND VOTE!!!!

Please forward this on in hopes that maybe some folks out there who aren''t motivated to go vote will realize not getting out to vote for McCain IS A VOTE FOR OBAMA!!!- Thanks, Katy Zastrow DuBois

[heartlandjim]

The bottom line is the hard working man and woman would be better off under the Obama plan. The rich would score biiiigggggg under the McSame plan. I choose the hard working man and woman. I choose Obama!!!

[au_fait]

I worked for GE. My mother, sister, and cousins retired from GE. The company never paid as well as the auto companies. Over the years, major companies have folded up and closed. The ones that survived outsourced their work to non-union shops paying minimum wages and offering no benefits. GE sent entire units overseas. Ford brought in major components for their cars and trucks from Mexico and South American nations like Brazil.

Posted by KyRock1 at 04:48 AM : Oct 31, 2008

If you burden companies with taxes they are going to leave.DUH! That began in the other administration. The current administration has not helped the issue though. When reducing taxes, they should have had the requirement to bring positions home.

[irishmail42]

The McCain Campaign has been referring to Barack Obama as a socialist, in part, because of his middle class income tax cut proposal and his comment referring %u201Cto spread the wealth around.%u201D I wonder what the McCain Campaign%u2019s position is on the EITC, Earned Income Tax Credit, enacted in 1975, and expanded by President Reagan in 1986.

The earned income credit EITC is a tax credit for certain people who work and have low wages. A tax credit usually means more money in your pocket. It reduces the amount of tax you owe. The EITC may also give you a refund. In plain English that means money goes from those who have it to those who don''t. As President, would John McCain propose to cut this "socialist program?" I think not.

[sigotratando]

''Which suggests that unlike our four families, neither candidate is focused on balancing his budget - yet. ''

What''s incredible about the last paragraphs is that, to believe them, one must believe that there is nothing more to balancing the budget than the household tax issue meagerly compared in this article. Saying ''- yet'' as the last word does nothing to increase the scholarship or mitigate the gross simplicity of this article.

You can''t judge an architect''s building plans based on seeing only the porch.

[hennighg]

4 more years of expanded tax breaks for the wealthy, on top of a $700,000,000,000 bailout. . .I don''t care if my taxes DO go up. With Obama there is a chance that some of the revenue will go to the working class instead of to keeping the rich in their incubators. Tax me and give me affordable health care, food, and housing. Just don''t let the rich make the US a Brazil, okay?

[sigotratando]

They had come for my wallet
They wanted my pay
To give to the others
Who had not worked a day!
-Posted by pmit

How proud McCain must be to be able to cultivate such jewels. Instead of actually applying some brain power to evaluate the logic & basis for political statements, supporters mindlessly nod their heads & cheer or vociferously boo, then write poetry or put up billboards to announce the extraordinary depth of what it means to be a sheep.

''...a string of conservatives -- including David Brooks, George Will, Kathleen Parker, and David Frum -- who believe Palin exhibits a poisonous anti-intellectual instinct of the party that threatens to ultimately destroy its foundations.''

[misha128-2009]

Posted by pmita at 07:41 AM

Apparently you have difficulty believing your own choice as a candidate when he said Senator Obama is not a socialist.

[gidrev]

Who did the math. The taxable income is the base income MINUS deductions. Generally this would be the standard deductions or about 22% of AGI income. That means that a salary of about 250,000 for a single person before the Obama tax increases. A married or Head of Household would be based on 320,000 before an increase would occur. The highest (39.6%) would occur around an AGI (adjusted gross income) of around $450,000.

[gidrev]

Who did the math. The taxable income is the base income MINUS deductions. Generally this would be the standard deductions or about 22% of AGI income. That means that a salary of about 250,000 for a single person before the Obama tax increases. A married or Head of Household would be based on 320,000 before an increase would occur. The highest (39.6%) would occur around an AGI (adjusted gross income) of around $450,000.

[danielle_mom]

The math is simple. The people who are effected by the tax bills are the ones who are the employers of small companies, larger donors to communities and the people who hire out for services.

If they have to pay $1000 or $2000 extra a year, they would cut back on their spending.

Clinton passed a luxury boat tax on new boats. Several builders laid off employees for the lack of sales and the tax was repealed. Michigan changed their Small business Tax to tax services and people balked at that because they passed the cost onto the customers.

Obama''s tax plan sound great to get votes, but horrible to lower taxes.

[patocc-2009]

When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -- Benjamin Franklin

[vegas11408]

If you go to fact finder, most of McCain/Palin''s comments about Obama''s tax are false and misleading. I do not understand that majority of the Americans who are middle class would tend to go with McCain proposed tax plan to make the rich more richer, with majority of the middle class families worrying about trying to save money for college, home repairs, gas, car, kids clothes, etc. I do not think it is comparable to say that families making over $250,000 or millions will have the same worries like us middle class. At least they have some security financially. McCain as we know is very wealthy. He and his wife will get richer under his tax plan. Obama has admitted that making over $250,000, he should pay more in taxes. I think it is ironic that McCain wants to cut estate tax from 45% to 15% and he owns what 7 houses???? Lets think about what we really need in this world...

[patocc-2009]

People do realize that the more money people make the more they pay in taxes. I have a feeling that people do not know that or refuse to acknowledge it. I''m middle class and have no problem paying my fair share in taxes. I know if I make more money some day I will pay more. Its the sliding scale we have. But to what extent to we keep raising taxes on 1 class. Raising taxes on 1 class to give to another class to give them $10-20 dollars more a week does what to help them. $20 dollars a week will not improve thier lives all that much. If it does then why don''t all the people who are so much in love with this plan who can spare $20 dollars a week go ahead and pick 1 family living in poverty and give them that money. After a year see how much better they are living.

[FHMullane]

Obama''s plan costs less and puts the money in the hands of the people who need it and will spend it. Once things start at the bottom people will buy the things that corporations make and the economy will trickle up... It isn''t going to trickle down. Making the rich richer doesn''t help the little guy and if the little guy can''t spend money on food, TV, furniture, toys, cars then corporate America will continue to take a dump.

The fact that is costs will be paid back once the economy is sound because when people are making good money and corporations make good money taxes are paid and then there will be a pay back.

Enough with Joe the Plumber.... McCain said this guy is his "role model"... now that is sick.

[ilovejoethep]

Consider carefully your choice:
October Surprise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyspCRmJv7w
YouTube Search "Suit To Remove Barack Obama"
There are a TON of unanswered questions about the Democrat!

[gotravel1]

Obama''s tax plan is a lie! First he said no one making under $250,000 would see their taxes raised(even though he wants to let the Bush tax cuts expire,so everyone will have their taxes increase),then he lowered it to $200,000 and this week Biden told a TV station that it is now $150,000.Do you see a trend here?They are throwing numbers out to try to get elected,knowing all alomg that they plan to raise EVERYONE''S TAXES,and those who pay no taxes will get a wellfare check.Wake up to the reality that Obama will say anyhting to get elected and is a fraud!

[kimchongse]

NumbersThatMatter.com provides a calculator to show how much the two tax plans will save You, based on your income level.

http://www.numbersthatmatter.com/

[mccain08nc]

%u201COil Giant $14.8 billion profit shatters Its Own Record For Biggest Quarterly Profit By U.S. Corporation%u201D

Don''t worry about coorporate profits because if Obama is elected american business will no longer be profitable and if they are Obama will steal it back and redistribute it to the middle class.

So vote Obama we will have a middle class beholden to government and coorporations that are not in business for profits. Because god forbid anyone trys to make a profit you will be labeled as greedy.

[hypnotoad72]

%u201COil Giant $14.8 billion profit shatters Its Own Record For Biggest Quarterly Profit By U.S. Corporation%u201D

Don''''t worry about coorporate profits because if Obama is elected american business will no longer be profitable and if they are Obama will steal it back and redistribute it to the middle class.

So vote Obama we will have a middle class beholden to government and coorporations that are not in business for profits. Because god forbid anyone trys to make a profit you will be labeled as greedy.

Posted by Mccain08NC at 12:00 PM : Oct 31, 2008
---

Profit is one thing, but closing out a worker''s job and relocating it elsewhere because it''s "cheaper" has hidden costs too. Especially if your current workers are good ones. Without people spending, those at the top wouldn''t have wealth either. It''s a symbiosis, and recent fluctuations in the market prove that. Country First means America first and rebuilding the middle class while still allowing people to have basic freedoms.

[meinnv]

Here is something the media, and everyone is forgetting to say:

WHAT THE HECK DO THEY DEFINE AS A "FAMILY"???

Seriously?? What about the single mom, making $45,000 trying to take care of her daughter?

She''s got rent (which in this area can go as high as $1500 a month), utilities (in the summer electric is over $225 with high temps in the 110''s), food (forget McD''s that''s too expensive), car expenses (if she doesn''t have access or lives near public transportation) which can be easily $600 ($300+ car payment for those who don''t have good credit, insurance, gas & maintenance), medical expenses.

And for those who have young children, there is child care.

The list goes on.