Passions, Budgets Sky-High Over Prop. 8

CBS Evening News: California Vote To Reverse Same-Sex Marriage Ruling A Heated Issue

(CBS)  When California's Supreme Court declared same-sex marriage legal, most polls showed majority support around the state. That's not the case anymore, CBS News correspondent John Blackstone reports.

"I am really worried," said Willie Brown, a former mayor of San Francisco.

Brown, one of the wise men of California politics, says the battle over Proposition 8, which would ban same-sex marriage, is raising passions and money across the country.

The passion reaches into normally quiet neighborhoods, such as the one where Tom and Kelly Byrne put out a "Yes on 8" sign - only to have it answered by graffiti.

"I've heard that a lot, that we're 'haters,'" said Kelly Byrne, who opposes gay marriage.

For the Byrnes, voting "yes" on 8 is returning marriage to the meaning it has always held.

"I can't just redefine a word. I can't take the word 'heterosexual' and say that it means someone who has a sexual preference for plants, right? So it is by the same token, no one else should be able to take the word 'marriage' and redefine it to mean something else that they feel it should mean," said Tom Byrne.

Jeanne Rizzo and Pali Cooper feel strongly that the meaning of marriage should include them.

"There is something really special about a wedding and marriage," said Cooper, who supports gay marriage.

They fought all the way to California's Supreme Court, and won last May. Proposition 8 would ban future gay marriages.

"Now it really is about taking something away from us," said Rizzo. "That's not OK with me."

It's an issue that has been raising strong emotions and an impressive amount of money. More than $31 million has poured into the anti-same-sex marriage campaign.

But what could be priceless is the boost the campaign gets every Sunday in church.

"It's decision time in our lives today," said Pastor Edward Smith, who leaves no doubt how he expects his congregation to vote. "Our posture is we want to preserve marriage as being defined between a man and a woman from the beginning of time."

But on the other side, the campaign to keep same-sex marriage has raised more than $44 million, fueling the TV ad war.

With both sides viewing this vote as crucial, this is a campaign where both budgets and passions are sky high.

[j_sun77]

Christians for NO on 8? Thats an oxymoron you think?

1. We believe that Christ is our Lord and Savior.- Yes i agree. 1 john 4:14
2. We believe no one is without sin.- um, yes i would agree as well. Romans 5:12
3. We believe that Christ died for our sins. - Im with you. Acts 4:10,12

4. We believe in equality for all.- "ok, sounds good
5. We are voting NO on 8.- "Now i say that way off. Totally aginst scriptures. Cant call yourself christian if you dont follow or base your life on scriptures. God is Love, For God so loved the world.. As Christians we should be Christ like. So with that we should love and respect Homosexuals. God loved sinners but refused to keep them that way. Same goes for Prop 8. We should Love and respect the Homosexuals but refuse to put up with their actions, if you will. Why? Cause God speaks clearly about Homosexuality. If you call yourself a Christian in any way or form then you should read 1 Cor. 6:9-11, and Romans 1:24-27. As a Christian we can not pick and chose what and when we want to follow scripture.

Peace be with you. - Yes i agree. But also let God be with you and speak to you on making Godly choices.

[peelerca]

Christians for NO on 8.

We believe that Christ is our Lord and Savior.
We believe no one is without sin.
We believe that Christ died for our sins.

We believe in equality for all.
We are voting NO on 8.

Peace be with you.

[physicsfem]

5. Yes on 8 people claim that Prop 8 protects a child''s right to have a mother and a father which is senseless because gay couple can still adopt AND it doesn''t change the fact that straight men and women comprise the vast majority of single parents in this country.

6. Only Prop 8 supporters are trying to "redefine" marriage. Marriage has already been defined and Prop 8 is trying to change that definition.

7. The question of sexual preference being a choice or not is irrelevant. If people are getting into healthy, happy relationships--why does it matter?
If gay people are really going to hell, then just let them. It''s their life: they are not affecting you.

And that''s the final point.

Prop 8 only affects GAY PEOPLE.

It does not affect "traditionally" married couples in any way.

Your gay neighbor''s marriage has not affected your life these past 5 months. So why are you trying to take it away?

If Prop 8 passes then I, personally, will work to throw the word "marriage" out of civil law and, instead have ALL couples (gay or straight) be bound by a civil union. Marriages can strictly be in the domain of religion and if a church chooses to not marry gay couples it doesn''t have to and if a church chooses to marry gay couple it can. That way, the definition of the term "marriage" can be determined by a person''s individual faith.

There are simple solutions to all the "Yes on 8" arguments. Except for that genuine argument that you all are a bunch of ignorant homophobes.

[physicsfem]

Let''s just be real:

Proposition 8 is homophobia.

I''d much rather Prop 8 supporters admit that they''re homophobic, than pretend that they''re okay with gay people and try to manipulate the constitution to legitimize their ignorance.

1. If Prop 8 supporters were really so worried about education (even though they''ve already been told that the subject will not be taught in schools and that they will always be able to "opt out") then they would be trying to pass a statute that would require that same-*** marriage not be taught in schools instead of trying to take away rights for an entire class of citizens.

2. Prop 8 supporters claim that same-*** marriage violates their freedom of religion (huh???), but no one is telling them to stop practicing their faith. You can believe what you want and I''ll believe what I want. Besides: there is this little thing called separation of church and state.

3. What exactly are Prop 8 supporters trying to protect their children from? Gay people are NOT going anywhere. We are still going to be your neighbors, your teachers, your family members (etc, etc...) whether the proposition passes or not.

4. Furthermore, what about the children of gay people? Who is going to protect them from the hurtful things that are said about their parents and families?

[germanmom]

I''m sure the IRS considers the tax exempt status of churches every now and then. There must be a reason why they were given this status in the first place. Could it be similar to the reasons home owners get tax breaks on the interest on their home mortgages? Home owners tend to be responsible citizens and the government wants to encourage that. Remember: "If you want more of something, subsidize it; if you want less of something, tax it."
Churches also carry a big load helping with social problems and disasters. If the churches aren''t able to do it, then the government will have to do more. Guess where that money is coming from?

[kansas1946]

To paraphrase a quote from Jesus of Nazareth, ''''''''Beware the Jackasses in Human clothing; it is only going to get much worse before it all gets better.'''''''' In the war for your soul the Devil will always spend more than the opposition that fights him.


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Posted by aardbear at 04:47 PM : Oct 31, 2008
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Thanks, arrdbear. Those folks that are always trying to tell others what to do and not to do, and attacking gay families, do always seem to have a lot of money pouring in. Probably directly from the guy downstairs...

[kansas1946]

Lord. With all of the problems we are having, these toads don''t have anything better to do than run around attacking gay families. Pitiful. If they have all of that time to burn, maybe they ought to volunteer at a charity of their choice and do something constructive with their time, instead of destructive. What a hateful bunch.

[patrik1974]

aardbear
The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference of one religion over another or the support of a religious idea with no identifiable secular purpose.
Additionally for the majority opinion for Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet: "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion."
Once again, if you use Christian or other religious doctrines to support your arguments against gay marriage, the US Constitution does not support this.

[patrik1974]

aardbear
The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference of one religion over another or the support of a religious idea with no identifiable secular purpose.
Additionally for the majority opinion for Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet: "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion."
Once again, if you use Christian or other religious doctrines to support your arguments against gay marriage, the US Constitution does not support this.

[germanmom]

hippychicky: Sorry I came off sounding arrogant; didn''t mean it. I do believe God wants things to work out for us, hence, the scriptures. I''m not a scriptorian, but I know Paul addressed the issue in Romans 1:26-31. You could Google it for more. I never really spent much time thinking about homosexuality until this election. It''s a difficult thing, but everybody struggles with one thing or another. The important thing is not to act on it and if we''ve made a mistake, get up and try again...just like a toddler learning to walk. They don''t give up!

[usedeqbroker]

Couldn''t have said it better. But Churches WANT to control, they control their own members with fear of the unknown, selling them something they can''t prove, see, touch or give them a refund on if, oops! it''s not true. Let people live they way they want to live.. I am straight, but would vote NO to Prop 8 if I lived in CA!! Could you tell?

mumu11
For once, how about thinking with our brains, rather than with the equipment below the belt? As far as the law of the land is right now, we need to clarify something. Either marriage is a religious sacrament and should be regulated by each church independantly AND receive absolutely no recognition from state or federal authorities (which means no tax break, government paid health coverage (spouses of soldiers, congresspeople. etc...), or right to inherit between spouses either), or it''''s a legal contract giving right to all those government financed advantages AND then the churches have no say so about who gets to marry legally at the City Hall or County Court: their only right being that of not celebrating marriages banned by their faith. In the same way the government has no right to regulate on people''''s religious beliefs, the churches have no right to impose the tenets of their faith on the government (ie: every citizen even outside their faith). If the churches want to lobby to advance their opinions, then they shoud accept to have the same status as the other lobbies, and pay taxes.

[patrik1974]

The last time I check, in the US we have separation of Church and State. The crafters of the Constitution realized the danger of integrating religion and the government. For those who site Christian or other religious doctrines to support your arguments against gay marriage, you should remember, that not everyone in the US holds these same values. This is what makes America the greatest nation on earth. For all those who want Church and State to be integrated, you should consider moving to a country like Iran.

[mumu11]

For once, how about thinking with our brains, rather than with the equipment below the belt? As far as the law of the land is right now, we need to clarify something. Either marriage is a religious sacrament and should be regulated by each church independantly AND receive absolutely no recognition from state or federal authorities (which means no tax break, government paid health coverage (spouses of soldiers, congresspeople. etc...), or right to inherit between spouses either), or it''s a legal contract giving right to all those government financed advantages AND then the churches have no say so about who gets to marry legally at the City Hall or County Court: their only right being that of not celebrating marriages banned by their faith. In the same way the government has no right to regulate on people''s religious beliefs, the churches have no right to impose the tenets of their faith on the government (ie: every citizen even outside their faith). If the churches want to lobby to advance their opinions, then they shoud accept to have the same status as the other lobbies, and pay taxes.

[hippychicky-2009]

Think about it people aren''t we all equal under the law. Should we not have the same rights. Yes, we should regardless of race, or ***, or orientation, or anything else. Equal under the law. Say no to Prop 8!!!

[hippychicky-2009]

For all of you religion-haters: Have you ever wondered why God prohibits some things and calls it sin? Maybe because of the anquish it causes and the lives it shatters? Have you ever thought about the things He encourages? Maybe because of the wellness it brings?

Posted by germanmom

Below is the things that God said he hated...Is homosexuality in that list? Please because you seem so knowing on "sin" tell where does the scripture list this specific sin? And don''t get me the same old tired scripture in Leviticus.




16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

[germanmom]

PVperson:Did you notice the Mormon Church ended up CONFORMING? hint, hint.
Also, the church is not making the donations, the members are.

[ybotheratall]

I do NOT want my children exposed to the filthy world of homosexuality. My children learning about natural relationships (heterosexual relationships only of course) is something that they NEED to know. Finding out that two men like to insert things into where the other defecates is not something I want my children to learn. I want them to learn that there is something very wrong with the brains of g.a.y.s and that therapy and medication, just like any other brain disorder, is what is needed, not acceptance.
-----------------------------------------
I dont understand still how who I love and marry affects you people. It will not affect you if two people are allowed to love each othere. Why are you people so hateful? You will still be married, nothing will change for you.
Chris, i feel sorry for you the most. You need to be educated. It frightens me how ignorant you are.

Posted by votenoon8 at 08:25 AM

[jsklinemn]

I left California in 1976 because it was turning into a fruitcake state. Too many fruits and nuts. There should be an island somewhere that all these people can go do what they want to do. I don''t want them here because they try to indoctrinate every one else into their sins. Being a victim of some of that ***, they can go. I tolerate their presence around me, but the first time another one tries to indoctrinate me or sway me to their side, I will reject everything they have to say or do. Vote to mandate that marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN. Don''t give me this *** about "change is inevitable" either as thats another bogus line of thinking from these nuts.

[usa351]

With everything going on in the world today, the end is coming. Repent now for the Lord is coming.

[whatsnext987]

To PVperson:

No On 8 get 21% of its donations from out of state. Yes 0n 8 gets 12% from out of state. If you want "out of state" influence to be removed, start with your own side.