Passions, Budgets Sky-High Over Prop. 8

CBS Evening News: California Vote To Reverse Same-Sex Marriage Ruling A Heated Issue

(CBS)  When California's Supreme Court declared same-sex marriage legal, most polls showed majority support around the state. That's not the case anymore, CBS News correspondent John Blackstone reports.

"I am really worried," said Willie Brown, a former mayor of San Francisco.

Brown, one of the wise men of California politics, says the battle over Proposition 8, which would ban same-sex marriage, is raising passions and money across the country.

The passion reaches into normally quiet neighborhoods, such as the one where Tom and Kelly Byrne put out a "Yes on 8" sign - only to have it answered by graffiti.

"I've heard that a lot, that we're 'haters,'" said Kelly Byrne, who opposes gay marriage.

For the Byrnes, voting "yes" on 8 is returning marriage to the meaning it has always held.

"I can't just redefine a word. I can't take the word 'heterosexual' and say that it means someone who has a sexual preference for plants, right? So it is by the same token, no one else should be able to take the word 'marriage' and redefine it to mean something else that they feel it should mean," said Tom Byrne.

Jeanne Rizzo and Pali Cooper feel strongly that the meaning of marriage should include them.

"There is something really special about a wedding and marriage," said Cooper, who supports gay marriage.

They fought all the way to California's Supreme Court, and won last May. Proposition 8 would ban future gay marriages.

"Now it really is about taking something away from us," said Rizzo. "That's not OK with me."

It's an issue that has been raising strong emotions and an impressive amount of money. More than $31 million has poured into the anti-same-sex marriage campaign.

But what could be priceless is the boost the campaign gets every Sunday in church.

"It's decision time in our lives today," said Pastor Edward Smith, who leaves no doubt how he expects his congregation to vote. "Our posture is we want to preserve marriage as being defined between a man and a woman from the beginning of time."

But on the other side, the campaign to keep same-sex marriage has raised more than $44 million, fueling the TV ad war.

With both sides viewing this vote as crucial, this is a campaign where both budgets and passions are sky high.

[kansas1946]

Bigots and haters can win a few rounds now and then, but they never have, nor never will, win the match.

[lankershim-2009]

Please vote for Proposition 8.

This is not at all about rights. It''s about tying to make the homosexual lifestyle more accepted in today''s society. It''s about gov''t taking a sacred institution (marriage) from the faith/religious sector many years ago and completely redefining its meaning to meet the fickle and deleterious demands of pop culture. Homosexual couples have the same rights as married couples:

"CALIFORNIA FAMILY CODE SECTION 297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses."

This is not about rights -- homosexual couples have all the rights of heterosexual couples, no matter what the bigoted anti-Prop 8 hate mongers would like you to believe. Please vote for Proposition 8.

[lankershim-2009]

The anti-Proposition 8 supporters make liberal use of words like "discrimination", "bigot", "hate", etc. which I find odd.

Odd because I have never seen a more obscene and hate-filled group than those bigots who attack those of us supporting Proposition 8.

Talk about hypocrites!

[hennighg]

Wow! War, economic breakdown, terrorism, election year, republican gay activities and theft, earthquakes, and more, and all those idiotic people care about is keeping people who love each other apart. Crazy US.

[votenoon8]

Who I choose to marry does not affect your marriage. you will still be married. I do not understand how it affects you. The world will still be round. If you dont like same *** marriage join a church that doesnt allow it. We are Americans and have the same rights as you, even if you dont like it. the government must give us the same rights as you. you have no right to restrict that. I will not joir your church, it''s a private club that doesnt want me and great cuz i dont want it either. But I am an American and I demand my rights as outlined in the constitution. T

[robert2237]

This little item gay marriages is just one more thing that I think we should force our federal goverment from giving this state (at least San Fransicko and LA) any of our tax dollars. First the military recuriters not allowed in the high schools then berserkie wants to kick out the marines recuriters now they want to destory marriage. Stop sending my tax money to these people. Oh I forgot they need a bail out also. I just wonder why the states who always go for the far left Ca Ny etcc. always need the federal goverment to come in and bail them out. Don''t give them one red dime, then maybe they will stop the services for the illigals, *** and anyone else who can come up with a good story.

[idnnsg]

As any anthropologist could tell you id.iots, the idea that "marriage has been solely between a man and a woman since the beginning of time" is total, ignorant BS.

But even more important, the fact of the matter is: homosexuals do exist, they do form partnerships, and ALL of society would benefit if they were allowed to form oficially-recognized, stable, long-term relationships (which, unfortunately, is something most straight people can''t seem to do even though they are allowed to get "married"). If you want to form a stable, healthy society, you should ENCOURAGE marriage for heteros3xu@s and for homos3xu@s. To do anything else is against your own best interests.

[lankershim-2009]

About the last person I would ask for a definition of marriage is an anthropologist. That''s God''s area.

Gov''t took the institution of marriage from faith/religion, not the reverse. It''s not now up to gov''t to change that definition, no matter what the anti-Prop 8 hate mongers would like to have you believe.

[ecs1749-2009]

"Who I choose to marry does not affect your marriage. you will still be married. I do not understand how it affects you."

Exactly, I want to marry my dog, then my fish. What''s wrong with that?

[rogmed-2009]

Seems to me that if folks were truly interested in protecting marriage, they would outlaw divorce, rather than restrict participation.

[kaserin]

The argument that CALIFORNIA FAMILY CODE SECTION 297.5 is enough to keep rights of same-*** partners safe and equal to that of married couples has already been debunked by the Supreme Court Justices in their decision, which has 100-something pages of legal precedence and other evidence why this is not true. "Separate but equal" has never worked and I have a personal example. I worked in the HR area of a company and of course, we would regularly handle people''s HR data. You could tell that most of the people in domestic partnerships were gay. How is it that a civil status that you need to report to your company for insurance purposes can potentially "out" you to bigots? It doesn''t make sense. At the time, I didn''t care or think much about gay rights, but it didn''t feel right to me. As history has shown, when you separate something that is supposed to be "equal," it inherently discriminates. (Brown v. Topeka Board of Education).

[votenoon8]

"Exactly, I want to marry my dog, then my fish. What''''s wrong with that? "

thats a disgusting argument. Love is a mutual feeling between two thinking people, which you clearly are not. I feel sorry for your partner, who you obviously have no respect for. When dogs can express their love for each other or you even, in a voice that be understood and validated then they should by all means be able to express and have the right to marry. Fish too. Oh, and lamp posts too.

[votenoon8]

What we really need in the country is FEDERAL GAY MARRIAGE RIGHTS. this state BS really does us no good anyway untill every state adopts gay marriage and the fed has to recognize it.

[esterpaisley]

We just had our Yes on 8 bumper sticker taken off of our car by a no on 8 individual. Hundreds (perhaps thousands) of yes on 8 signs were taken during the election time in our city. Cars were vandalized and on and on. What does this say for many of the no on 8 individuals? Do you think that they will care about what your children hear in schools either? Do individuals like this even care about children? I have seen the truth of many of the yes on 8 blasted by the no side. I see things happening now that they say won''t happen in the future. And they say we Hate. I will stand for traditional marriage on this election day. Marriage is for making a family together and having a closed relationship. We can''t give this away. Vote yes on 8.

[eus109937]

Marriage in the great State of California is a legal contract between two people and the State of California. Over 1,000 laws, rights, and obligations come with the legal marriage contract. Civil marriage in California has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with the law. All residents of the State of California must stand before the law as equals. VOTE NO ON 8.

[veachn]

Esterpaisley,

You talk about "protecting" children yet YOUR campaign...the yes on prop 8 campaign took images & videos of children, but them on your website and in commercials WITHOUT PARENTAL CONSENT.

This is the same campaign that claims schools are going to teach about "being gay" and parents won''t have any say in it.

Don''t believe that your campaign did this? Check out this article...you can also watch a video of them speaking about it on ABC News.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20081026/pl_usnw/outraged_parents_of_children_featured_in_latest_yes_on8_ad_to_speak_out_at_sunday_press_conference_over_the_exploitative_use_of


Yes on Prop 8 supporters honestly make me ill...NO ON PROP 8!!!

[lankershim-2009]

It''s not about "rights." Homosexuals are already covered in California when it comes to "rights":

"CALIFORNIA FAMILY CODE SECTION 297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses."

Stop the brainwashing! Vote YES on Proposition 8!

[veachn]

Esterpaisley,

You talk about "protecting" children yet YOUR campaign...the yes on prop 8 campaign took images & videos of children, but them on your website and in commercials WITHOUT PARENTAL CONSENT.

This is the same campaign that claims schools are going to teach about "being gay" and parents won''t have any say in it.

Don''t believe that your campaign did this? Check out this article...you can also watch a video of them speaking about it on ABC News.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20081026/pl_usnw/outraged_parents_of_children_featured_in_latest_yes_on8_ad_to_speak_out_at_sunday_press_conference_over_the_exploitative_use_of


Yes on Prop 8 supporters honestly make me ill...NO ON PROP 8!!!

[lankershim-2009]

Keep your homosexuality OUT of my Sacrament from God which the state applied laws to, not the reverse!!

Vote YES on Proposition 8!

[casurfdude1]

Almost everyone of my friends my age and younger (28) thinks prop 8 is a stupid, mean-spirited, hateful proposition. While there are obviously going to be some young people voting YES, most of us roll our eyes at the old farts who were sleazebags in the 70s, snorted coke in the 80s, then "found God" after that. It is disgusting that so called Christians are behind the Yes campaign. They air lies, spread hate but preach love. Anyone voting yes is a bigot - the core of bigotry is inequality and that is prop 8.

[voteyesprop8]

Legalizing same *** marriage would affect everyone. Despite the attempts by those voting no that gay marriage will not be taught in schools, that is false. Schools are required by law to teach marriage, and if this passes they will be forced to teach marriage is between any two people. The same thing was promised in Massachusetts, and now look at the lawsuits going on there because of what is being taught in schools. Gay couples have all the rights as a husband and wife do currently, and that is not going to change with a yes vote on prop 8. I encourage everyone to really study the issue and get the facts. I fully support yes on 8, but hope that whatever happens on tuesday, we will work together to heal the wounds that have been caused on both sides by this very sensitive subject.

[casurfdude1]

Oh, and anyone who posts about teaching gay stuff in schools is a total loser that is just trying to mask that they don''t like gay people. It''s a smoke screen and shameful that they would resort to using kids, but the Yes on 8 campaign has shown they are so slimy and low that they used kids to lie in ads and resorted to blackmail to businesses who gave to the NO campaign. The Yes voters, bigots, are beneath scumbags for the way they lie and intimidate. And they have the audacity to call themselves Christians.

[weelie57]

Protect marriage? From what? Gay and lesbians ARE NOT A THREAT TO ANY MARRIAGE. They are also NOT a threat to children. A very real and common problem for marriages in this scary time is the loss of income and the increase of the cost of everything so it could be argued that the STUPID economic policies of the Bush adminstration are a much bigger threat to marriage than all the homosexuals on earth. Stop ramming your small minded "morals" on those of us who don''t share your "faith". NO ON PROP 8!!!

[veachn]

Voteyesprop8,

Please educate yourself before publishing incorrect facts/lies...it makes you look ignorant.

Gay couples DO NOT have the same rights as married couples. Civil Unions ARE NOT the same as marriages. They do not have the tax benefits, marriage benefits, social security benefits, healthcare benefits, pension benefits, hospital visitation rights etc. etc.

VOTE NO ON PROP 8!

[veachn]

Voteyesprop8,

Please educate yourself before publishing incorrect facts/lies...it makes you look ignorant.

Gay couples DO NOT have the same rights as married couples. Civil Unions ARE NOT the same as marriages. They do not have the tax benefits, marriage benefits, social security benefits, healthcare benefits, pension benefits, hospital visitation rights etc. etc.

VOTE NO ON PROP 8!

[moxford0]

How about constitutional amendment recognizing the marriage between the republician,the phony christian,and dog poop.

[philsayegh]

Prop 8 has absolutely NOTHING to do with religious or spiritual beliefs. Ever hear of the separation of church and state? This is about a civil matter that seeks to treat everyone equally. Afraid of treating everyone equally? Then why don''t we rescind women''s right to vote, and why not keep African Americans as slaves? WAKE UP. Change is necessary and natural, lest we be stuck in discriminatory and bigoted thought and practices.

[borei2008]

Anon00,
You cannot seriously be comparing the homosexual rights issue to the black civil rights issue. Ethinicity is not a choice. Homosexuality is. It is a CHOICE about sexual preference. It is not a trait that you are BORN with. There are some doctors who say it is genetic, but just as many who say it is not. PLease do NOT minimize the civil rights movement and the good it has done by comparing it to the homosexual rights issue.

Posted by anon00 at 10:41 PM : Oct 30, 2008
+ report abuse
The argument that CALIFORNIA FAMILY CODE SECTION 297.5 is enough to keep rights of same-*** partners safe and equal to that of married couples has already been debunked by the Supreme Court Justices in their decision, which has 100-something pages of legal precedence and other evidence why this is not true. "Separate but equal" has never worked and I have a personal example. I worked in the HR area of a company and of course, we would regularly handle people''''s HR data. You could tell that most of the people in domestic partnerships were gay. How is it that a civil status that you need to report to your company for insurance purposes can potentially "out" you to bigots? It doesn''''t make sense. At the time, I didn''''t care or think much about gay rights, but it didn''''t feel right to me. As history has shown, when you separate something that is supposed to be "equal," it inherently discriminates. (Brown v. Topeka Board of Education).

[votenoon8]

"Keep your homosexuality OUT of my Sacrament from God which the state applied laws to, not the reverse!!"

Keep your false idea of a ''god'' out of my life and laws. The concept of ''god'' applying to anything that is relevent in todays society is nonsense. Laws can not be based on the concept of a god that has laid down the laws of humans . It''s absurd. God has no place in society or government. Keep your concept to yourself, dont try to push it on me. We need rights not god.

[votenoon8]

Chioce? who would choose to be hated by the likes of you? For christ sake, why would I choose to be beaten, hated, put down and stripped of my rights?

When you make a choice you would need to have experienced both sides right? Well exactly when did you try homosexuality and decided that being straight was the right ''choice'' for you? *** people and ignorant.

[philsayegh]

borei2008,

since when did you become an expert on homosexuality? talk to any gay individual and ask them when they chose to become homsexual. they will laugh in your face. why would anyone choose to face bigotry from close-minded individuals such as yourself? perhaps if you left your bigoted bubble and met with gay individuals, you would have a better sense of this issue, rather than disseminating invective about an issue with which you are clearly unfamiliar.

[esterpaisley]

veachn

I am glad the the prop 8 campaign showed us the commercial about the children going to the gay marriage as a school activity. Hence, what I said before--- What they said wouldn''t happen (the no on 8 group) is already happening. It will get worse also if prop. 8 doesn''t pass. There are many other valid arguments for the Yes on 8 side. By the way, the parents of those children had no objection when the media took pictures of the children.

[jamesisme1-2009]

I am a gay man who has been in a loving, monogmous relationship for over 34 years. Our relationship has hurt no one. Those who authored prop 8 are not concerned with truth or honesty, but rather with forcing everyone to conform to their views.
We havehurt no one and have helped many, both gay and straight. The fundamental chriatians have no clue in regard to the true message of Jesus, they are in fact worse than the Pharises'' that he condemn. In their eyes their way is the only way. How sad for them to be so ignorant. Jesus says in the beatitudes that we should live in the present, get with it folks. Today the reality is that gay men and women are loving, caring, productive members of society and deserve the same rights as everyone.

[voteyesprop8]

"CALIFORNIA FAMILY CODE SECTION 297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses."
What I find interesting is that as i read through these threads it seems to be the no on 8 votors going negative and using derogatory and hateful terms. While I don''t deny that the same exists on the yes side, I hope I can state my beliefs without ever coming across that way. People shouldn''t excuse their beliefs for what many are trying to deem socially acceptable. This is about protecting the family, so vote yes on 8!

[borei2008]

For those of you who like name calling, I am not a bigot, nor do I hate ANYONE. If you read my post carefully, you will see that at NO point did I put down or demean homosexuals. And for your information, I do have friends that are homosexuals, and we ae honest with each other. They know my views and beliefs and respect me for them, becuase I still love them for who they are. I can disagree with what someone does without hatred. Please quit attacking me personally. I have attacked noone personally and have only spoken about the issue.

Chris

[casurfdude1]

Chris
HA! If you vote Yes on prop 8, make no mistake - you aren''t ANY gay persons "friend" - you are their enemy! A TRUE friend would NEVER EVER EVER EVER vote to make someone a 2nd class citizen and unequal. With "friends" like you, who needs enemies? If you vote yes on prop 8, don''t be surprised if your gay "friends" spit in your holier-than-thou face and never look back.

[philsayegh]

Chris,
Protecting the family? According to what definition? Your closed-minded definition? CAsurfdude summed it up. How about I propose a proposition to ban Christians from owning property, or from having kids? My Christian friends will still love me, because I don''t want to oppress them. Not. A human being is a human being, If they don;t hurt you, why are you trying to systematically discriminate against them? I''m sorry, but your arguments are contradictory and, quite frankly, naive.

[borei2008]

Again with the name calling. I never said I was holier than anyone. And, Prop. 8 does not make anyone asecond class citizen. It only soldifies the orginal definition of what marriage is. And for your information, my friends and I have spoken about prop 8 and they disagree with me but respect my views and love me anyway.

[casurfdude1]

What a joke about kids. The yes on 8 campaign has made it crystal clear that they don''t give a *** about kids. Using kids to lie in ads is beneath scumbag level. Then the yes campaign threatened businesses who gave money to the NO campaign. These people call themselves Christian. They are about as un-Christian as Satan himself. Quit using kids as pawns to mask the true reason behind prop 8: the religious zealots are losing their grasp on America, and this is their final chance to cling to power. This is about them hating gay people, no matter how much they deny it.

[philsayegh]

"And, Prop. 8 does not make anyone asecond class citizen. It only soldifies the orginal definition of what marriage is. "

You''re perseverating as much as an individual with dementia. Proposition 8 explicitly denies equal rights to a class of individuals who have done no harm to you or society.

Who cares about "orignial" definitions. Times change, and so laws need to change. Which brings me back to women''s suffrage, slavery... let''s just keep everything "original." HELLO?!?!

[casurfdude1]

Hey Chris...then your friends are idiots for being friends with a bigot (yes, I called you a name...the very core of bigotry is inequality and that is what you would be voting for...I am calling a spade a spade, you don''t like it, too bad) You are NOT their friend, you are their enemy. But if they are stupid enough to maintain a "friendship" with a bigot like you, that speaks very low of them. If I were a gay dude, I would absolutely end my friendship with you. God help you.

[borei2008]

philsayegh,

You should read my posts again. I never use the pghrase "protecting the family", so please stop attacking me fot things I did not say. Second of all, I am not trying to oppress anyone or deny anyone theirs rights. Marriage has always been defined as between a man and a woman. Saying that I do not wnat to change the long standing definition is not denying your rights as a human being. Finally, look at your posts compared to mine. Who sounds more like they are spreading attitudes of hate and disrespect?

Chris

[philsayegh]

"Second of all, I am not trying to oppress anyone or deny anyone theirs rights. Marriage has always been defined as between a man and a woman. Saying that I do not wnat to change the long standing definition is not denying your rights as a human being."

Voting had always been defined as something men can do. Let''s protect that longstanding definition, because it''s right.

[philsayegh]

I am spreading eqaulity, not oppression, which is inherently right.

[casurfdude1]

Uhm Chris once again you are lying. You say you aren''t voting to oppress or take away rights....what exactly don''t you understand about the exact wording of prop 8:
"ELIMINATES THE RIGHT OF SAME-*** COUPLES TO MARRY"

You are voting to freaking eliminate rights. Jesus, are you really this much of a pathetic person? Never mind, I already know the answer to that.

[borei2008]

CAsurfdude1,

Bigotry is not about inequality, it is about hatred. I do not hate anyone for the choices they make. This issue is about choice NOT inequality. I am sorry you feel the need to speak hatefully instead of conversing calmly and with love and respect. I respect you for your views, no matter how much I disagree with them.

[philsayegh]

Well, I think I have repeated myself enough, so I am going to retire from this discussion. Best wishes to you in all aspects of life, other than discriminating against and oppressing people with your "holier than thou" thoughts. By the way, we''re in the 21st century.

[borei2008]

"Voting had always been defined as something men can do. Let''''s protect that longstanding definition, because it''''s right.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by philsayegh at 02:05 AM : Oct 31, 2008
+ report abuse"

But the definition of "voting" has not changed...just who is allowed to participate. By making homosexual marriage legal, you change the definition of marriage.

[philsayegh]

P.S. Educate yourself and read some moelcular genetics research articles before you talk about "choice." OK, now goodbye for real.

[philsayegh]

The definition of marriage won''t be changed... just who is allowed to participate. Duh.