JERUSALEM, Oct. 25, 2008
In Israel, Christians Feud Over Holy Site
Coptic And Ethiopian Christians Fight Over Monastery Near Purported Site Of Jesus' Crucifixion
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An Ethiopian Orthodox monk is seen the Deir El Sultan monastery in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, believed by many to be the site site of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, in Jerusalem's Old City, Oct. 15, 2008. (AP Photo/Bernat Armangue)
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Tourist visit the Deir El Sultan monastery in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, believed by many to be the site site of Jesus' crucifiction and resurrection, in Jerusalem's Old City, Oct. 15, 2008. (AP Photo/Bernat Armangue)
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For decades, Coptic and Ethiopian Christians have been fighting over the Deir el-Sultan monastery, which sits atop a chapel at the ancient Church of the Holy Sepulcher. The monastery is little more than a cluster of dilapidated rooms and a passageway divided into two incense-filled chapels, an architectural afterthought alongside the Holy Sepulcher's better-known features.
And yet Deir el-Sultan has become the subject of a feud that has gone far beyond the walls of Jerusalem's Old City. The Ethiopians control the site, but the Egypt-based Copts say they own it and see the Ethiopians as illegal squatters.
The quarrel has erupted into brawls - in 2002, when the Coptic monk moved his chair into the shade and too close to the Ethiopians, a dozen people were hurt in the ensuing melee. And today, the Ethiopians claim the battle for control could result in the monastery's collapse and even in damage to other parts of the church, one of the holiest sites in Christendom.
Since the 1970s, the Israeli government has refused to allow renovations or significant repairs at the disputed monastery until the Ethiopians and the Copts come to terms. That hasn't happened, and the Ethiopian Church says the years of neglect have put the structure in danger. The Copts suggest the Ethiopians are merely trying to further cement their hold.
The Ethiopian Church commissioned a report from an Israeli engineer backing up its claim, and in early October the Ethiopian patriarch, Archbishop Matthias, asked the Israeli government to carry out urgent repairs. The archbishop attached the engineer's assessment that the humble monastery structure could collapse - and possibly damage the chapel below - if steps are not taken to repair it.
The report, compiled by Yigal Berman of the Milav engineering firm, cited "safety hazards" that "endanger the lives of the monks and the visitors," according to a report in the daily Haaretz newspaper. Yifredew Getnet, a spokesman for the Ethiopian Embassy to Israel, confirmed the report. A committee made up of embassy representatives, churchmen and lay leaders has been appointed to oversee the monastery, he said.
Outside the monastery, Coptic monk Antonious El-Orshlemy said his church owns Deir el-Sultan and the Ethiopian claim that the monastery is about to collapse is false.
"The building is very fine, and not dangerous to someone," he said.
The most recent round of the feud over Deir el-Sultan began in 1970, when Ethiopian monks changed the locks while the Copts were at services on the eve of Easter and moved in.
The Ethiopian Church has six monasteries and 70 monks in the Holy Land, according to the office of the patriarch. A handful are stationed at Deir el-Sultan. The main parts of the Holy Sepulcher are divided between the Catholics, Armenians and Greek Orthodox.
Three years before the Easter takeover, Israel captured the Old City from Jordan in the 1967 Mideast War and found itself in charge of the Holy Sepulcher.
The Copts appealed to an Israeli court, which ruled that the Ethiopians should not have altered the fragile status quo at the church but said it was the government's job to decide what to do. The government decided not to take action, according to Daniel Rossing, director of the Jerusalem Center for Jewish-Christian Relations and an expert on the city's fractious religious mosaic.
International politics likely played a role in the decision: At the time, Israel had warm ties with Ethiopia and was at war with Egypt. Later that was reversed: Communists came to power in Ethiopia and cut ties with Israel, and Egypt and Israel signed a peace agreement. But Israel still did not act, possibly because of concerns that angering Ethiopia could hamper the emigration of the country's Jewish community.
Feuds like the one over Deir el-Sultan "don't have a solution, period," Rossing said. "The trick, then, is to do the very best job to make things as livable as possible, within the limitations of never being able to solve these issues."
Israel's interior minister, Meir Sheetrit, now plans to mediate the dispute, and the government will help renovate the site when the sides can agree on a course of action, said spokesman Ilan Marciano. But with each side entirely rejecting the other's claim to the monastery, it is unclear if an agreement is possible.
The feud is only one of a bewildering array of rivalries among churchmen in the Holy Sepulcher, where each group remains on guard against any encroachment onto their turf. Fights have flared over issues such as who is allowed to sweep which steps, and Israeli police occasionally intervene.
The Israeli government has long wanted to build a fire exit in the church, which regularly fills with thousands of pilgrims and has only one main door, but the plan is on hold because the sects cannot agree where the exit will be built. In another example, a ladder placed on a ledge over the entrance sometime in the 19th century has remained there ever since because of a dispute over who has the authority to take it down.
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Best-selling author Mitch Albom on his first nonfiction work since "Tuesdays with Morrie."
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See all 77 Comments"I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU, that YOU also love one another. By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.%u201D John 13:34,35
So the sign of a Christian is ... what?
You poor person. You talk like YOU were one of the people that were molested. I really feel bad for you man. Go have another toke. It will help calm you down.
Posted by newster1 at 06:55 PM : Oct 26, 2008
Not for the religious people as religion and reasonings are mortal enemies!
Posted by newster1"
"I agree! Sodomizing young boys in the churches is one example.
If there was no religious involvement, Palestinians who
We need to conduct a new scientific study to figure out whether RELIGIOUS PEOPLE become PSYCHOTICS or PSYCHOTIC PEOPLE become RELIGIOUS!
Posted by patriotic9 "
Yeah the pedo scandal is a ripe one, the priks denied it for decades and just shuffled them around, now they are paying thru the nose, some going bankrupt.
Belief in an invisible man in the sky and all the krap taught about this stuff is a symptom of a mental or emotional disorder, a 6 year old KID believes in Santa and flying reindeer coming down the chimney on Dec 24 to bring toys, somehow that part of some kids doesnt grow up and mature beyond that stage, so they just transfer it from invisible magical Santa in the chimney to a different invisible magical Santa- but in the sky who like the chimney Santa- keeps a "book" on everything you think and do and rewards or punishes you.
Its so pathetically transparent its laughable. Maybe someday science will find which part of the brain has this disorder and fix it, so- like the 6 year old who finally GROWS UP and matures mentally to drop the belief in a fantasy invisible chimney slider- the right wing nut finally matures and dumps this thing the same way the 6 Year old dumps the chimney Santa before they turn 10 or 11
Posted by gscotth"
Thats right! because the non xtians are not the ones claiming to be holier than thou "family values" freaks whilst they push to enact legislation against g@ys and anything else THEY dont like, and elect a moron president based on his anti g@y and anti abortion stance all due to their ''beliefs.''
I dont CARE what people do in private in their own lives, I dont have a problem with that or consential ADULT incest/adultry/ multiple marriages, bestiality, drugs or alcohol used in private behind closed doors(within moderation)
I DO have a problem with religious reich trying to take over the Govt, Judicial, Criminal courts, elections, civil rights, women''s uterii and more!
I also have a problem with these tax EXEMPT churches using MY tax dollars to foist religion off on us OR to attempt to alter the eelections processes in violation of IRS rules.
Sodomizing young boys in the same churches where homosexuals right of marriage is opposed on not daily but hourly basis! Republican Christian Mark Foley sexually harrasing a 14 years old boy on internet!
Republican Christian Larry Criag tapping foot in Airport bathroom.
Christian conservative Bill Orielly sexually harassing a female at work place and then giving her $10 million to keep her mouth shut.
Posted by patriotic9 "
Yeah, that''s the republican "Family values" at work!
See republicanoffenders.com
This just in up there;
October 14, 2008
20 year Republican Assembly member and State Parole
Board Commissioner George Chris Ortloff was arrested in a federal child s3x sting.
Agents found it suspicious when Ortloff arrived in an
Albany-area hotel with condom.s, lubricant, vibrators
and a camera expecting to find a 12 year old girl and her 11 year old sister, but the nail in
the coffin was when he answered the door naked.
Don%u2019t get Bill Allen confused with Bob Allen. In November 2007, Bob was the Allen arrested
for offering an undercover male cop $20 for oral s3x in a public restroom.
We all cried ourselves to sleep when it was revealed that he was a Floridian State Representative and co-Chairman of %u201CMcCain for President.%u201D
Posted by robert7562"
Like Ive said before as well- religion KILLS people and the x-tian''s system comes from the book, the very same one that demands DEATH by stoning for cursing one''s parents, DEATH of innocent young animals to sprinkle their BLOOD all over an altar for "sin atonement", condones slavery, death death death and more death! that''s ALL the dam thing is about!
"If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, man is sinful and
Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
George H Smith
Posted by jMcGilvray"
Exactly right, that also shows why they go after S3X and why priests were to be celebate- not supposed to have pleasure, just supposed to worship, pray, eat sleep and think gezus 16/7 till you die, some life THAT is! No wonder the bunch of them are such fruitcakes.
Posted by gscotth at 04:06 PM : Oct 26, 2008
What morality are you talking about?
Sodomizing young boys in the same churches where homosexuals'' right of marriage is opposed on not daily but hourly basis!
Republican Christian Mark Foley sexually harrasing a 14 years old boy on internet!
Republican Christian Larry Criag tapping foot in Airport bathroom.
Christian conservative Bill Orielly sexually harassing a female at work place and then giving her $10 million to keep her mouth shut.
Worst of all, snatching $3 billion a year from GOD-NEGLECTED AMERICANS to pay them to GOD-CHOSEN NON-AMERICAN in order to buy HATRED, TERRORISM and 9/11 against GOD-NEGLECTED AMERICANS and UNHOLY LAND "UNITED STATES"!
and it was a metaphor anyways..
===
it was no metaphor....exactly. yes it''s a metaphor in message, but that doesn''t mean he didn''t experience it. he feared how his brother would receive him yes.
all of the book of revelation (no not revelations---but revelation) and the entire bible is all symbolic, but it also happens in reality.
whom god chooses (truly few) experience those things. everyone wants to be saved "if there was no god it would be necessary for man to invent him" shows that man will invent god for themselves if they don''t have him (example this story). it is a need. and i believe even atheists call upon god at death.
it wasn''t esau he wrestled "with". it says he wrestled with the angel of the lord and that''s 2 fold. at the time he wrestled that big black thing he also wrestled the angel of the lord. one til death to sin and the other changing into what god wanted him to be. it''s a 2 edged sword. one side cuts to death (to sin) and the other cuts to life (in becoming christ) (christ means anointed) at the very same time. weird sounding but true.
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I think this argument over a building shows how petty and silly religion can be..
makes about as much sense as this silly debate..
Posted by legacyABQ
=== yes an excercise in futility so i cease ===
At the end off the day we are all responsible for the world that is created tomorrow the problems of this world are simply a result of our own arrogance, bigotry & ideals (and that applies to people both sides off the political fence).
Well wake up, the church has lost most of its power!
Posted by newster1 at 02:12 PM : Oct 26, 2008
I agree! Sodomizing young boys in the churches is one example. Another example is the religious ideology of human beings not being created equal but born as GOD-NEGLECTED or GOD-CHOSEN based on the RACE or FAMILY they are born in.
If it wasn''t religion, nobody could snatch $3 billion a year from the GOD-NEGLECTED US Citizens and send it to GOD-CHOSEN NON-AMERICANS to buy HATRED, TERRORISM and 9/11 against UNHOLY LAND UNITED STATES and GOD-NEGLECTED AMERICANS.
If there was no religious involvement, Palestinians who can''t even speak the language spoken by HITLER would not pay the price of crimes committed by Nazis in Concentration Camps in Germany.
We need to conduct a new scientific study to figure out whether RELIGIOUS PEOPLE become PSYCHOTICS or PSYCHOTIC PEOPLE become RELIGIOUS!
Posted by patriotic9"
Cant agree with you more!
"I want you to know that what you are saying is blasphemy... Show respect on here.
Posted by ndjam"
Phuxyou 666:66 said; you right wingers jailed and/or EXECUTED people over the ages for ''blasphemy'' and ''heresy'' you are no better than the extremist muslims who cut peoples heads off- so sit down and shut up! you dont deserve respect you murderous subversive bunch of lunatics!
Ive said it often- religion is for emotionally weak people who need a crutch to lean on because their lives are so pathetic they have the need to feel purpose and needed by some Santa Claus in the sky who rewards them for being ''good''
One church in NYC sits on a $900 BILLION trust fund while people live in cardboard boxes in the public park- it''s all about the MONEY AND CONTROL.
Well wake up, the church has lost most of its power!
And for the atheists that don''t beleive in God, that''s OK, God still beleives in you.
Posted by Displeased
Actually our decline began when you atheists/agnostics pushed for 3 things in this country
1.) [wrong]
2.) [wrong]
3.) [also wrong]
Posted by StopSocialis "
The decline began when we started OVER POPULATING the land, stripping and wasting the limited resources, fighting over food, land, forests, water, jobs and jamming ourselves into concrete jungles.
The decline began when you buybull thumpers started telling kids we are all just filthy dirty ''sinners'' unworthy of even seeing this god figure in person here because we are all ''contaminated'' filth. Meanwhile they learn this ''loving'' god kills people directly or by inaction knowing in advance a little ground movement under the ocean would kill 100,000 people and scores of innocent animals as well. They learn in the news the other day about how 52 cows died after being electrocuted by your ''loving'' god created LIGHTNING striking a fence they were huddled against in the storm.
With ''love'' like that who needs enemies!
If somebody disagrees with what I said, please come up with valid and sound reasons to prove me wrong. If you do that, I would acknowladge my mistake and change my point of view!
Posted by patriotic9
I want you to know that what you are saying is blasphemy. This world was created by God. His son came here and died for all our sins. Show respect on here.
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