June 18, 2009 6:22 PM

For Average Joes, Mixed Feelings On Wealth

(AP)  The war of words waged by John McCain and Barack Obama for the votes of plumbers and other average Joes is a reminder of the nation's long-standing doubts about concentrated wealth - and its qualms about doing something about it.

Americans have voiced concerns about putting too much wealth in to too few hands since the country was founded, but the public's views also come with contradictions.

Now it's clearer than ever - thanks to Obama's much scrutinized talk about taxes with a certain Ohio voter and McCain's dogged criticism - that these mixed feelings about income inequality are a long way from being resolved.

"I think that when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody," Obama told the man - maybe you've heard of him - Joe the Plumber.

The remark may have sounded pretty innocuous. But McCain has lambasted his rival's words as sounding "a lot like socialism," and turned the criticism into a central theme of his campaign's final round. Obama's remarks, McCain says, are emblematic of a tax plan to confiscate wealth and give it to the poor that would make the IRS "into a giant welfare agency."

The comments of both presidential candidates touch nerves in American politics - longtime concern about too much concentration of wealth, but also about the role of government and the individual. More than two centuries after Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson and other early leaders warned about the hazards of too much in the hands of too few, Americans have developed complex views on the intertwining issues.

A substantial majority of Americans say the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes, opinion polls show. A growing number say the U.S. is becoming a nation of haves and have-nots.

The public's concerns reflect a shifting dynamic in recent years, as an increasing share of the wealth has gone to people at the top of the income scale. The top tenth of U.S. households now earn an average of 11.2 times what those in the bottom tenth make, according to the Census Bureau. That's up from a ratio of 8.7 three decades ago. The wealthiest fifth of U.S. households now take in 50 percent of all income, up from 44 percent in 1977. The differences are even more pronounced in analyses of incomes for the top 1 percent of households.

"The income gap between the rich and the rest of the U.S. population has become so wide, and is growing so fast, that it might eventually threaten the stability of democratic capitalism itself," then-Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said in 2005.

But Americans are divided on whether government should be heavily taxing the rich in order to benefit those with less.

"It's a complicated area to try to understand American attitudes," said Frank Newport, editor-in-chief of the Gallup Poll. "It's kind of like, in some instances, conflicting medical research ... There's no one answer."

A majority of Americans - 51 percent in a poll by Gallup this past April - said they support "heavy taxes" on the rich to redistribute wealth. That is significantly higher than when the same question was asked in 1939, at the tail end of the Great Depression, when 35 percent agreed.

But people's support for higher taxes on the wealthy are tempered by their own aspirations.

"Most Americans hope to some day be wealthy and as a result, the idea of kind of redistributing income is not as popular as (government policies resulting in) making a bigger pie so everybody does better off," said Dennis Jacobe, chief economist for Gallup.


© 2009 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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by samthetvcat October 27, 2008 12:39 AM EDT
---"Obama is a little like God"---
Posted by SmartVote8

Yeah, he often masks his deception by speaking out against a practice at the very time he''s engaging in that same practice by appealing to peoples'' vanity.

Politicians all perpetuate stereotypes to get people to buy into the idea that people need what it is they''re selling . . . nobody thinks Barack supporters who think he''s some sort of different kind of politician are savvy when they call Joe the Plumber stupid . . .
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by hootal2 October 27, 2008 12:27 AM EDT
That has always been how the Rebublicans have convinced the middle and lower middle class to vote for them. By perpetuating the self-deluting fantasy that they too will one day be that rich person the Republicans are always benefiting. It is sad how they get the lower middle and middle class to screw themselves.


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Posted by mkcscbs at 08:49 PM : Oct 26, 2008
+ report abuse
the world needs ditch-diggers too! work hard and get ahead. simple concept you demoturds need to grasp.
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by mkcscbs October 26, 2008 11:49 PM EDT
That has always been how the Rebublicans have convinced the middle and lower middle class to vote for them. By perpetuating the self-deluting fantasy that they too will one day be that rich person the Republicans are always benefiting. It is sad how they get the lower middle and middle class to screw themselves.
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by smartvote8 October 26, 2008 11:02 PM EDT
Joe the Plumber only provided a small ***** in the tough armour that Obama hides behind. Obama is a little like God -- people don''t read the bible and check the facts, they just make up and believe whatever they choose to believe he is.
Vote McCain/Palin!
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by samthetvcat October 26, 2008 11:01 PM EDT
---"All the charisma in the world won''t save Obama when his policies fail"---
Posted by jimiwhitten

You know what we seem to love to do in politics is symbolically rail ''against the British'' (any institutional concept that''s come to be too powerful). This year it''s all about the CEO''s and big business. In 4 or 8 years it might very well be the cultural elites in politics - celebrities, performers/entertainers, the punditry, academia - all the people saw all those same qualities in Barack and really went out there to champion him and his idea that one can intellectualize any human experience through study - power plays, business savvy, handling a crisis, etc.

Barack beating Billary seemed to be all about repudiating legacy candidates for President. Maybe the next trend to be repudiated''ll be the ivy leaguers - there hasn''t been a non-ivy leaguer since Reagan, is that right?
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by misha128-2009 October 26, 2008 10:51 PM EDT
Posted by jimiwhitten at 07:09 PM

the Freddie and Fannie central cause of the financial meltdown was refuted by Greenspan and two other administration officials. In their refutation Greenspan refuted the validity of deregulation and called for significant and appropriate regulation noting that

Business does not act in it''s own best interest.

Meaning management is not acting in the interests of either the stockholders or the employees.
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by jimiwhitten October 26, 2008 10:47 PM EDT
I am very well read up on the FORRESTAL and the Keating five, how well read up are you on Marxism and socialism, on what eventually happens when politicians get caught in a lie (like Nixon and Clinton). All the charisma in the world won''t save Obama when his policies fail and he is still telling stories (I plan to stick to public money - Hell, McCain has done a great job considering that he is outspent 8 to 1).
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by misha128-2009 October 26, 2008 10:45 PM EDT
Posted by jimiwhitten at 07:22 PM

Ever hear of preventing identity theft?
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by ciabello October 26, 2008 10:43 PM EDT
You know people cheer and say he only wants to tax the rich. But they don''t realize if the 250,000.00 ceiling doesn''t adjust with inflation it will be just like the AMT Tax that all married people pay that make over 100K pay each year. The politicians are having a hard time getting rid of it. They could adjust the AMT with inflation but they aren''t going to do that.

Also if you have insurance policies, or inheritance and it is a one time payment of over $20,000.00 you will be hit with at 38% capitals gains tax if you have another source of income. Not only will you pay payroll taxes you will pay capital gains. If you put the money in the bank and it earns interest you will have to pay taxes on it as well.

So his "tax the rich" will really tax anyone that has parents that will leave them with an estate even if it is just a modest one or has an insurance policy.
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by samthetvcat October 26, 2008 10:41 PM EDT
PS Applied to a different scenario, I think having a narrow rather than full view of greed both across the board good and bad is going to impede Barack''s ability to grow the economy, no matter how much he tries to ''intellectualize'' the concept of economic growth. If he believes that spreading the wealth is ''fair'', he''s never going to be able to accurately gauge when is the right situation for good greed to flourish imo
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