Court Eyes Illegal Aliens And ID Theft

Supreme Court To Decide Whether Aliens Using SS Docs Should Be Prosecuted For ID Theft

(CBS/AP)  The Supreme Court agreed Monday to decide whether people picked up on immigration violations also can face charges of identity theft if they use Social Security and other identification numbers that belong to others.

Federal appeals courts have split over whether the defendant must know that the phony ID numbers belong to a real person and the court said it will resolve the question.

Federal prosecutors have increasingly been bringing the more serious identity theft charges against undocumented immigrants, including many who were arrested in raids on meatpacking plants.

Defense lawyers have argued that their clients should not be charged with stealing someone else's identity because the immigrants only were seeking documentation that would allow them to work. They didn't know if the numbers were fictitious or belonged to someone else, their lawyers say.

The Bush administration, however, has said that it doesn't matter under federal law.

CBS News legal analyst Andrew Cohen says no matter what the Justices decide, this trend toward charging undocumented immigrants with identity theft is here to stay.

"And if the Court says that current law restricts what prosecutors can do, then Congress can simply change the law to make such charges easier to prove.

This issue is not going to go away no matter what the Justices decide. And if this weren't an election year it's likely that Congress would be voting on how to give prosecutors more leeway to go after undocumented immigrants for identity theft charges,'' said Cohen.

The 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, based in St. Louis, agreed with the administration and upheld the conviction of Ignacio Carlos Flores-Figueroa.

Flores-Figueroa, a Mexican national, worked at a steel plant in East Moline, Ill., since 2000. Originally, he worked there under an assumed name, and false Social Security and alien registration numbers. In 2006, he told his employer he wanted to be known by his real name and submitted new identification documents.

This time, though, the Social Security number belonged to someone else, and his green card number was that of yet another person. Suspicious, the employer contacted immigration authorities, who arrested Flores-Figueroa.

The five-count indictment against him included two counts of aggravated identity theft.

Federal appeals courts based in Atlanta and Richmond also have ruled in the government's favor in similar cases, while the appeals court in Washington, D.C., has sided with defendants.

The case, which will be argued next year, is Flores-Figueroa v. U.S., 08-108.

[Gary Kempf]

It is about time. Nail them for fake drivers license. Nail them for driving a vehicle without insurance. Nail all of them!!!

[drivelphobe]

How slowly justice moves. We will overcome the egregious lack of enforcement when it comes to illegal aliens. They are a scourge on the USA, particularly in the border states. California is going under because of the illegals. Our deficit could almost be eliminated if entitlements for illegals were terminated. They make every citizen sick to their stomachs as our lawmakers provide millions of our taxpayer dollars to these parasites.

Let''s hope the Supreme court rules correctly. Let''s hope the incentives to come here and the increase in penalties forces them to leave and take their despicable anchor babies and extended families with them.

[cyberus-2009]

If I were to be caught driving with someone elses drivers license or working with someone elses SS number would I be prosecuted?

Yes

So why is there a question?

[antoniof123]

If I were to be caught driving with someone elses drivers license or working with someone elses SS number would I be prosecuted?

Yes

So why is there a question?
Posted by cyberus at 01:37 PM : Oct 20, 2008

While I agree with you the question is should we put them in jail instead of sending them back.

I vote send them back and make it impossible for them to get a Visa, then find out how they got the SS# and go after the cancer instead of putting a band-aide on it.

[rematenaj]

The biggest thing is that we need to remove the anchor-baby magnet. If an illegal person gives birth in this country, their child should NOT be an American citizen.

[jjp735i]

They knew they were working with false papers and in the US illegally. It''s a no brainier. They new they were breaking the law and did not care which who''s ID they used. I doubt they ever questioned it.

[antoniof123]

Let''''s hope the Supreme court rules correctly. Let''''s hope the incentives to come here and the increase in penalties forces them to leave and take their despicable anchor babies and extended families with them.
Posted by drivelphobe at 01:23 PM : Oct 20, 2008

According to the US Constitution people who are born in this country are citezens so unless you want to amend the Constitution the child can stay. I for one will vote against an admendment of such because it could mean that people who are here legaly and have children could be sent back. So no thank you they are citezens.

[brianp55]

It is absolutely beyond my comprehension that there is even the slightest debate or question on this issue. Arrest them and ship the entire family back to their country of origin. The alternative, assemble a fleet of obsolete Navy ships to use as prison barges several miles (some unswimmable distance) off our coast. Tell them they''ve won a Disney cruise.

[mumu11]

If the person knows (s)he is using the name or the SSN of someone else, that person is guilty of ID theft, wether or not (s)he is an illegal immigrant. Why the question in the first place?

[mumu11]

just-kilaman, that''s not the subject of this article and you aren''t giving your sources. I dislike intensely Mrs. Palin, but an accusation has to be grounded in facts.

[gop_will_win]

Liberals steal IDs too. They do this to steal from the productive people. Liberals are so crooked!

[slim1h2o]

Let''''s hope the Supreme court rules correctly. Let''''s hope the incentives to come here and the increase in penalties forces them to leave and take their despicable anchor babies and extended families with them.

Posted by drivelphobe at 01:23 PM : Oct 20, 2008


I agree!!

And like so many other posters that correctly asked,

Why is there even a question of guilt? If someone steals a TV, or a car, or whatever,, that person can go go to jail.

So why not I.D. theft? That''s more damaging to a person than having your car stolen. Which very well could lead to losing your job, in some situations.

[missingamerica]

"They didn''t know if the numbers were fictitious or belonged to someone else, their lawyers say."

lolll...uh huh - yeah, right.

In fact, they are so dumb that they were incapable of doing the jobs their U.S. employers imported and hired them for, and so their employers gave them paychecks anyway as a form of charity.

[mollydtt]

Why would this even be a problem. To use someone else''s identifying information is always a crime. I''m tired of the double standard. Just because you break a whole bunch of laws all at once doesn''t mean some of them should be ignored.

[slim1h2o]

I.D. theft...

Maybe it should be a capitol offence, if you are here illegally, and holding somebody else''s I D info.

After all, if we jail them, then we are paying for their up-keep.

And if we just deport them, well, they''ll just come back, one way or another.

And quite possibly do more harm to our society..

[cattiej]

Guess where one of the biggest illegal ID''s places is in our U.S. Chicago.
Obama is the co-author of the Dream Act...free/low cost loans for children of Illegals...(it''s another give-away).
Obama is also and has voted for Comprenhensive Immigration as has McCain.
Our government has not built the wall between Mexico and the U.S. Why isn''t it finished???? Because Bush is a friend of the Mexican President.
It is time for Americans to defend our borders because our government won''t do it. It''s the Alamo, all over again. Who makes millions off the cheap labor of these illegals...rich CEO''s and farmers who contribute to the campaigns of politicans.
I have a friend, in her 60''s here in Illinois. Someone used her SS# to make a fake ID..guess where they said it was made !! Chicago..so if the police know that, why the heck don''t they do something about it. What does the Obama camp or McCain camp have to say about this????Nothing..it''s a political no-no on the campaign trail.

[timaran]

As one previous poster pointed out, the question is not whether it is a crime. Of course it''s a crime. The question is whether or not the guilty should spend time in a US jail before being deported.

[cattiej]

Let''s all move to Mexico illegally. They would catch us and put us in jail for 5-7 years, fine us thousands of dollars and we would''t get out until we paid.
Will someone write in to this site and tell us what the penalty is for illegally going into Mexico and then trying to work down there, legally.?

[noamnestymc]

Obama is the co-author of the Dream Act...free/low cost loans for children of Illegals...Posted by cattieJ at 02:19 PM : Oct 20, 2008
**** It was the Kennedy-Mccain Dream Act! Obama tried attaching adendums on the bill so IT WOULD NOT PASS! Obama is backed by labor unions WHO DO NOT WANT ILLEGALS TO GET AMNESTY! AMNESTY MCCAIN IS BACKED BY BIG BUSINESS THAT WANTS ALL THAT CHEAP LABOR AMNESTY MCCAIN IS THE ONE THAT WANTS AMNESTY FOR ILLEGALS! Obama/Biden 2008!

[denn034]

I support a compassionate approach to immigration for illegals that otherwise obey the law but, I don''t believe that they should be given a pass on ID Theft or any other crime they commit after they get here. Period!

[noamnestymc]

it''''s a political no-no on the campaign trail.
Posted by cattieJ at 02:19 PM : Oct 20, 2008
*** The saddest part Cattie is that polls find that 80 percent of americans are AGAINST giving amnesty to illegals, heck, even 50 percent of legal hispanics DO NOT WANT AMNESTY for people that came here illegally. You would think they would want to talk against amnesty for illegals, because that is a 80/20 is the biggest thing us americans actually agree on. Amnesty Mccain refuses to talk against amnesty for illegals, because his biggest backers are the oil companies and corporate america. Corporate america wants all that cheap labor! Obama is back by labor unions that won''t want illegals taking up too many american jobs. The choice is very simple this election. We can vote for Obama and turn our economy around and start making the rich CEO''s pay their share of taxes again, which in turn will create more tax cuts for the middle and lower classes!

[txlakeside]

What part of "Illegal Aliens" do people not understand.

My wife was a "legal" alien, worked hard and became a legal citizen. You can call them Undocumented workers if you want but it is against the law to enter and work here without "legal" papers allowing you so.

Yes we are a country of immigrants, but the first thing any immigrant should learn is that if they want to stay here they have to go by the rules and do not break the law or you will be kicked out! Period!

[noamnestymc]

I support a compassionate approach to immigration for illegals that otherwise obey the law but, I don''''t believe that they should be given a pass on ID Theft or any other crime they commit after they get here. Period! Posted by denn034 at 02:42 PM : Oct 20, 2008
*** I would only support compassionate immigration reform if the entire wall between US and Mexico is completed, and fully staffed... Otherwise, remember when Reagan gave amnesty to those 4 million illegals in like 1985 or 1986? Millions more came after that. That is why we can''t just through up our arms and say lets just give them all amnesty. Otherwise, why are we fighting foreigners in Iraq, if we are going to let foreigners win in our own country?

[frankinaz]

"Defense lawyers have argued that their clients should not be charged with stealing someone else''s identity because the immigrants only were seeking documentation that would allow them to work. They didn''t know if the numbers were fictitious or belonged to someone else, their lawyers say."
This is Bulls**t! Illegal immigrants know *** well what they are doing is wrong. Three illegal immigrants were recently caught in Chandler, AZ with nineteen credit cards in their possession, all with information obtained illegally. They also forge paperwork to illegally obtain driver''s licenses, other documents, goods and services as well. It''s about time to prosecute these people for all the crimes they commit; illegal immigrants have been above the law for far too long with little to no consequences for their illegal actions.

[noamnestymc]

Yes we are a country of immigrants, but the first thing any immigrant should learn is that if they want to stay here they have to go by the rules and do not break the law or you will be kicked out! Period!
Posted by txlakeside at 02:47 PM : Oct 20, 2008
**** I totally agree! People keep forgetting that illegal immigrants broke the law to come here, and the penalty for that is deportation! Instead of people complaining about the government being too strict, they need to tell the illegals to get out and come back legally! I''m tired of people being so sympathetic to lawbreakers!

[noamnestymc]

The republican party is becoming the party of lawbreakers! All the rich CEO''s breaking the laws, and illegal immigrants... When will the republicans finally start backing regular working americans????... NEVER! Obama/Biden 2008!

[makemyday2da]

xentpro - Check out the following links and you''ll see good ol'' McCain ''schmoozing'' with ACORN in 2006:
http://crooksandliars.com/silentpatriot/mccain-attended-acorn-rally; http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/a_lifetime_ago_sen_john.php

Now, you and your cohorts can get over your big, bad selves - and continuous attacks.

[textingbabe7]

I want to know more about the coverup with Obama and ACORN. I also want to know why we wouldn''t automatically charge someone with ID theft who uses another''s id, SSN or otherwise. A SSN is someone''s ID. Duh. If someone needs an ID in this country, they can go to the SSN administration and get their own, using their own face, their own name, address, birthdate, etc. Everyone comes from somewhere and is given an identity at birth. No need to use someone else''s, especially if they''re acting legally. So what''s the problem? The only problem would be for those who are acting illegally, trying to obtain identification to work in this country without proper identification. And that is a crime.

[mumu11]

While I agree that the same crime requires the same punishment, whoever the criminal is (citizen, legal resident, illegal immigrant. etc...), I disagree with the unnecessary and offensive name calling.

[penskeone]

Let''s legalize the majority of them.

Let''s pass a Comprehensive Reform Bill.

[u-r-right]

Huh? You mean this is not a law already? What is there to debate about? Of course there should be punishment for ID theft!

[penskeone]

Punishment is not the Answer.

Legalizing them is the Answer!

[penskeone]

U-r-right, the folks who do not want illegals prosecuted are the ones whose homes have not yet been burglarized, whose ID had not yet been stolen, those who have not yet been robbed at gunpoint, raped or lost their job to an illegal alien.

Deny illegals housing and employment and they will deport themselves.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by jMcGilvray



I didn''t know that illegals are the only people comitting burglaries and sticking people up at gunpoint!

If you lose your job to an illegal alien, you are a Loser!

[slim1h2o]

Punishment is not the Answer.

Legalizing them is the Answer!


Posted by penskeone at 04:40 PM : Oct 20, 2008

Yeah right,,,

Was wondering when you were going to show up, and start spewing your illegal loving non-sense.


Ooops..somehow thats a racist statement.

Loike I have said in other posts, ship the illegals out before they bankrupt us. Which is happening now....

[simplemind2]

Mr. Ignacio Carlos Flores-Figueroa presented someone else''s Social Security number and green card to his employer.
He deserves to be fired and also serve some serious jail time and after that - get deported back to Mexico where he truly belongs!

[cattiej]

It is time to put armed guards, right on the border. Finish building the *** fence, Mr. Bush.... It is time to put the business people who hire these illegals in jail and fine them at least 1 million dollars per illegal worker. Remember the Alamo!

[TrishG62]

What happened to "ignorance of the law" is no excuse ? Break the law as a citizen, feign ignorance and see how far that gets you.

Obama and McCain want to legalize everybody and keep the doors open. Obama will have a super majority more than likely so the crackpot Pelosi and Reid can finally give Mexico what it wants. Of course, just a few years ago Reid raged against the damage illegal aliens were doing. He gets a powerful position in government and suddenly has a change of heart.

Citizens don''t stand a chance in this country with Obama as president. Get ready for it.

[slim1h2o]

Posted by brdliky6 at 07:01 PM : Oct 20, 2008


Well,,, you are getting better at your poetry.

But all good poetry has a begining, a middle,,and an end.

Yours seems to have none of that,,,go back to the drawing board, and submitt it again..

[TrishG62]

Up until we began being overrun with illegal aliens, I would hear "we''re a country of immigrants". No, most people who are in the U.S. are born here--they didn''t migrate from anywhere. We are a country with immigrant descendants, not a country of immigrants--at least until Obama is elected.

[u-r-right]

Is it any wonder various crime rates spike where there is a large number of illegal South Americans?

This is not a racist statement, just pure fact.

The reason is their culture is crime driven through corruption from the top on down. From petty theft to gang and drug warfare. In their culture, it is a way of life and there often is no consequence unless they are on the wrong end of a gun.

We don''t need any more of this in our country than we already have.

The idea that this particular debate of punishment for ID theft has to be debated by our court system is absolutely ridiculous.

As others have said, it''s not going to get any better with either party who makes it to the Oval Office. Both sides favor some sort of amnesty. It will rot this country from the inside out. What a shame.

[slim1h2o]

Posted by tinyt54 at 07:19 PM : Oct 20, 2008

Part of your statement is true, we are an immigrant nation. But up till the last 30 or 40 years, it''s been a organized immigration policy here.

Now,,it''s seems to be a free-for-all type mentality, when immigration has been mentioned. Espeacially when it comes to the Latinos.

Let me tell a little story that I heard in Texas, when I lived there.

The Latinos want Texas back, and they think that they will be better off, if Texas and the other southwestern states go back to being in Mexicos hands. Not sure how they think that, just look at Mexico and judge for yourself. If anyone thinks that''s better,,,,,,

You have to be crazy to really believe that.

And, They are not above, or below, which ever you want to look at it,, to start a race war. That''s all I ever heard when I lived there. And because of all that garbage, I moved. The Latinos, the blacks hated each other. But they hated the whites even more.

There was no more racist people that I met, than the people I met in Texas, Like the Latinos and blacks.

People(white people) that I knew in Texas have moved away, back to where they come from.

And there''s more to follow, I''m sure...

[slim1h2o]

And there''''s more to follow, I''''m sure...

Posted by slim1h2o at 07:44 PM : Oct 20, 2008

And the Latino population that is here, the ones that are 2nd, and 3rd generations that have been raised here thinks it''s a good thing that the illegals are here. And these people are the ones helping the illegals.

And doing everything to get SS to help with food stamps, and other welfare benefits.
And when that''s failed, they have gotten their Embassy involved.


The question I would like to ask people who have had to ask for help,, Americans that is,,,


Did your Embassy help secure your benefits?


I doubt it...

[starleo146]

There are thousands of people who entered this country legally, and waited there turn, went to school, and became citizens of this country, for them I am glad to have them join our country, and they are improving this country every day. After saying this anyone who enters illegally should be sent back to whatever country came from, they are not all Mexicans,but are the majority, a lot come from Cuba via Mexico, and I am not for any illegals in this country for any reason. Before they decide to come here believe me, they know what they need to do, what they want to do, so stealing peoples identity should only add to the crime. If you ask the legal immigrants, I think they do not like doing everything this country laws ask of them, is not right for the illegals to think they can take a shortcut.

[nojoy01]

OK. Let''s try something new & novel to try & cut through all of the BS surrounding the basic issue. If you are an Illegal Alien, legal resident Alien, or a citizen & you commit a crime, you go to jail. Period. And if that means that we have to build more & bigger prisons, so be it. I will cheerfully pay higher taxes for a solution like this. By the way, entering the U.S. w/o going through customs IS a criminal offense, but unless you are willing to turn most of the state of Nevada into a prison compound, that law will never be enforced.

[nojoy01]

I picked Nevada for no particular reason other than there is a lot of empty space there & if you didn''t build the prisons next to the hiways nobody would notice them. Of course, West Texas is a possibility too. :)

[squeakof2006]

You know how to stop illegal imigration? You make things so miserable for anyone caught entering illegally, they don''t come here without the proper documentation to begin with. We have too many drug-dealers, rapists, burglers, murderers, all coming from Mexico with the drug trade, trashing America''s country side and cities. When they get caught, if they are an illegal with the drug trade, shoot them in the head, send them back to Mexico in a box. They steal social security numbers from citizens (they know what they''re doing when they do it!!), cut off their hands, deport them. They try to come back, shoot them. No compassion. They make a moccary of our nation. Time to deal with them. If their home contries won''t take them back, send them for a swim in the ocean. Make their lives miserable until they leave. Illegal is illegal. It''s time to take a stand!

[slim1h2o]

Posted by brdliky6 at 09:22 PM : Oct 20, 2008

Sorry Oakishpines,,,,

This poem is unacceptable,,


try again,,,,

[stevador39]

Illegal aliens are criminals. This country is swamped with illegal aliens, refugees and immigrants. They all need to be denied access to food stamps, health care, education and jobs. The charities that encourage illegals are making money from this mess. Do not give to any charity that gives to foreigners.

[nojoy01]

Posted by brdliky6 at 09:22 PM : Oct 20, 2008

Unfortunately, as a poem, this sucks. But, you should try putting it to ''music'' and spitting it out as a rap piece. It''ll probably go platinum.

[tktkr]

It is the Governments fault all the immigrants are here overpopulating us and taking benefits that don''t belong to them,etc.etc. It is B.S. This is another reason why we should vote Democrat. We already have seen what Republicans DON''T DO.