Guns Allowed In Some Airport Terminals

Survey Finds People With Permits Allowed To Carry Firearms 7 Of Nation's Busiest Airports

(AP)  Flying in the U.S. has been transformed since Sept. 11, with passengers forced to remove their shoes, take out their laptop computers and put liquids and gels in clear plastic bags. Yet it's perfectly legal to take a loaded gun right up to the security checkpoint at some of the nation's biggest airports.

An Associated Press survey of the 20 busiest U.S. airports found that seven of them - Philadelphia, Detroit, Phoenix, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Dallas/Fort Worth, Los Angeles and San Francisco - let people with gun permits carry firearms in the general public areas of the terminal.

Some anti-terrorism experts say that is a glaring security loophole that could endanger airport workers, passengers and people waiting to pick them up or see them off. Some suggest that allowing guns in terminals is practically asking for them to be smuggled aboard a plane.

"If your airport is not secure, then the security of your airplanes is jeopardized," said Rafi Ron, former security chief at Ben Gurion Airport in Israel who now works as an aviation consultant. "You cannot separate the two."

Other authorities say the nonsecure areas of the terminal are no different from other public venues and do not warrant special restrictions.

"It's really not more of a concern than at a mall or a train station," said Philadelphia police Lt. Louis Liberati.

Under federal law, it is illegal everywhere to try to carry a gun through a security checkpoint. The rest of the terminal, however, has long been the domain of state and local authorities.

Jon Allen, a spokesman for the federal Transportation Security Administration, said the TSA has not taken a position on guns in airports and has no authority under federal law to ban them.

The issue has led to clash in Georgia between a new state law that allows guns on public transportation and the Atlanta airport's ban on loaded weapons. Last month, a federal judge dismissed a lawsuit brought against the city by a gun rights group. At an earlier hearing, he warned that guns at the world's busiest airport could pose a "serious threat to public safety and welfare." The gun group has appealed.

Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, was surprised to learn that airports have been allowing weapons for years, and warned that Congress could move to ban the practice. In a July letter to TSA, Thompson called guns in terminals "a threat to the safety of airline travelers."

However, even at those airports that ban guns, officials are not frisking people or using metal detectors on them as they enter the terminal. Experts say an additional layer of security like that would be unworkable at America's bustling airports.

In 2002, an Egyptian immigrant killed two people and wounded several others near a ticket counter at the Los Angeles airport before he was shot to death by an El Al Israel Airlines security guard.

Some gun owners who take their weapons to the airport cite the need for protection. Others carry a gun frequently and say they do not want to be bothered finding a place to stash it if they go to the airport.

Joel Rosenberg, a firearms instructor in Minneapolis, said he regularly carries a gun to the city's airport and has not heard of any problems caused by the policy.

"People who are law-abiding are going to be law-abiding whether they have a .38 snubby on their hip or not," he said.

Some airports that allow the guns say they are trying to accommodate the culture of their patrons.

"We like our guns in Michigan," said Scott Wintner, a spokesman for Detroit Metro Airport.

Similarly, Brian Murnahan, spokesman for the Dallas-Fort Worth airport, said his airport's policy is driven by pragmatism: Texans often carry guns. "While we certainly don't encourage people to bring guns to the airport, we are trying to be reasonable," he said.

The state's other major airport has a strict no-guns ordinance.

"It's posted everywhere," said Marlene McClinton of Houston-George Bush Intercontinental Airport. "But this is Texas," she said, explaining that the airport has cited some visitors for violations. Unlawful carrying of a weapon is a misdemeanor in Texas, punishable by up to a year in jail and a $4,000 fine.

Gun rights supporters say law-abiding citizens with guns could fire back and cut short a gunman's rampage. But Ron, the Israeli security expert, said the last thing airport security agents need is a hail of bullets and no idea who the bad guy is.

"That leads to chaos," he said, "and that can lead to tragedy."

[deckardbr]

I love it when TSA throws an old lady up against the wall and makes her open her locket with a picture of her granddaughter inside. While they''re strip-searching her, five Arab males waltz past yelling, "Kill Americans!" and nobody ever searches them. It sucks to be an old white lady in a PC world.

[lf1952]

The article, not surprisingly, misses the point(s).
(1) People with CWP only VERY rarely commit ANY crimes. There is ZERO evidence to suggest that having armed citizens with CWP''s present does anything but make places safer.
(2) As noted, then ignored, Federal authorities have NO jurisdiction outside security points. Thus state law governs.
(3) All the recent multiple casualty shootings have been in "Gun free" zones. For those that have trouble with this concept, a "Gun Free Zone" is an are marked as safe for criminals to commit crimes in, confident of the helplessness of the citizens. Note that the times these crimes have been stopped, (Texas Church, Salt Lake mall) have by people with CWP''s, carrying handguns in what the criminals felt were designated safe zones for crime. I am surprised the criminals didn''t sue - the government had promised them no one would shoot back!!!

[porphyry999]

Yeah ! Totally f***ing ridiculous - You might get your baby milk confiscated if it''s not in a ziplock but a 9mm pistol - "go right ahead sir - let''s see your fake gun carrying permit - yup no problem have a nice hijacking !"

[lf1952]

Again, let''s get back to reality.
No one is suggesting weapons past security checkpoints. The discussion is about parking lots and ticket counters.
Why are the gun control nuts always so quick to move discussions from reality to the bizarre and ridiculous?
It has been argued that this is because as they lack any basis for their screams/rants, they must rely on emotional and fabrication.

[lf1952]

Sorry, slight error. In Utah, it was the owner of Trolley Square mall who promised criminals no one would shoot back - the government simply gave the mall owner the right to do so. Personally, I do not shop in any mall/store that prohibits legal carry of concealed weapons. Since they don''t want my presence, I have no intention of giving them my business.

[longtree-2009]

If one is fortunate enough to obtain a permit to pack, there should be no reason the person cannot pack anywhere or anyplace. If there are restrictions, it should be part of the permit itself. Or, airports by state legislation can outlaw guns on airport property. Assuming here that all airports, especially those hosting airlines and charter airlines, have enough trained and armed police officers. These police officers are hopefully uniformed, undercover, and patrol the airport and grounds.

[philmiamifl]

Here in South Florida, as well as the state, if you have a concealed weapons permit nothing prohibits you from carrying in the airport terminal. I do. And to think that those that don''t care for the law will ''leave their guns at the door'' is INSANE. I wish it was a permit to carry the gun exposed so people can see that you have one but being concealed, I take mine basically everywhere. You can NOT take it into government buildings (court house, post office,etc) or places like night clubs(your not supposed to because 51% is alcohol sales). I feel better with my weapon, people get shot and/or stabbed by someone who does not give a sh*t about the law. Why should I be a victim? And I am a democrat but my 2nd Amendment rights can not be overturned by any president. The right to bare arms. If I was not a law abiding citizen, do you think I would still not have a gun? Please get real. Criminals don''t care.

[philmiamifl]

Here in South Florida, as well as the state, if you have a concealed weapons permit nothing prohibits you from carrying in the airport terminal. I do. And to think that those that don''t care for the law will ''leave their guns at the door'' is INSANE. I wish it was a permit to carry the gun exposed so people can see that you have one but being concealed, I take mine basically everywhere. You can NOT take it into government buildings (court house, post office,etc) or places like night clubs(your not supposed to because 51% is alcohol sales). I feel better with my weapon, people get shot and/or stabbed by someone who does not give a sh*t about the law. Why should I be a victim? And I am a democrat but my 2nd Amendment rights can not be overturned by any president. The right to bare arms. If I was not a law abiding citizen, do you think I would still not have a gun? Please get real. Criminals don''t care.

[philmiamifl]

Here in South Florida, as well as the state, if you have a concealed weapons permit nothing prohibits you from carrying in the airport terminal. I do. And to think that those that don''t care for the law will ''leave their guns at the door'' is INSANE. I wish it was a permit to carry the gun exposed so people can see that you have one but being concealed, I take mine basically everywhere. You can NOT take it into government buildings (court house, post office,etc) or places like night clubs(your not supposed to because 51% is alcohol sales). I feel better with my weapon, people get shot and/or stabbed by someone who does not give a sh*t about the law. Why should I be a victim? And I am a democrat but my 2nd Amendment rights can not be overturned by any president. The right to bare arms. If I was not a law abiding citizen, do you think I would still not have a gun? Please get real. Criminals don''t care.

[stupidrules3]

People with permits have been through background checks and attended training to insure they are knowledgeable and proficient in the use of firearms. The criminals and psychos who go on rampages have none of this. Gun free zones mean nothing to them, except a target rich environment.

[slim1h2o]

I love it when TSA throws an old lady up against the wall and makes her open her locket with a picture of her granddaughter inside. While they''''re strip-searching her, five Arab males waltz past yelling, "Kill Americans!" and nobody ever searches them. It sucks to be an old white lady in a PC world.


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Posted by DeckardBr at 02:33 AM : Oct 16, 2008

LOL,,Funny,,,yet very true!

It does stink to be white now-a-days. No matter what,,,we''re always wrong,,or racist. What a joke!!

[payasyougo]

"Yet it''s perfectly legal to take a loaded gun right up to the security checkpoint at some of the nation''s biggest airports."
----
That would explain why there have been no mass shootings at these locations. The potential victims might shoot back. Too risky for a potential law breaker.

[payasyougo]

"Joel Rosenberg, a firearms instructor in Minneapolis, pulls back his coat to display his gun outside the property of the Minneapolis-Paul International Airport, Oct. 15, 2008 in Minneapolis."
----
Joel, you are stupid. The rest of us really appreciate you giving ammunition to CBS news and others to launch this preemptive thread in anticipation of a Democratic leadership chance at changing laws which incidentally, might put you out of the instruction business.

[lar2001-2009]

"Because after getting drunk they can be lethal, remember Columbia high shoot out that killed 29 kids.?"

Great point! The kids could not own guns, guns are banned at schools. They Broke the law.

If a couple teachers had guns a lot less kids would have died.

Gun free zones are criminal protection zones.

[lar2001-2009]

Gun free zones are criminal protection zones

Look at the cities that haved banned or heavily regulated guns. DC''s gun ban works LOL

Colubine, VA Tech, gun fre zones. Yep those shooters paid attention. I am sure they walked in and said "Wait! we cant have guns here"

In Columbine and VA Tech, the shooters would still kill some people if teachers were armed, but a lot less people would have died.

More guns = less crime

Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self defense (DOJ study) If more guns made it more dangerous then there should be millions dead every year.

Stop watching Michael Moore movies.

[lar2001-2009]

More states allow conceal carry now than ever in history, more states are passing castle doctrine laws to protect people from being prosecuted for using a gun in self defense.

The reason is because gun owners have proven themselves trustworthy.

The anti gunners have tried to demonize us for years but studies and facts have proven them wrong.

Dman those facts!!!!

[lar2001-2009]

"What! why you need carry gun to the airport?"

Crime happens everywhere.
Ask someone who has had a stalker.

[gatofeo]

What''s the big deal?
People with concealed weapon permits are legally abiding citizens. They are banned from bringing their gun past the security area. This means they can carry within the parking, ticket and baggage claim areas.
So?
Within these same areas you''ll find people with pocket knives, mace, jewelry on heavy chains and other items that may be used as weapons.
I''ve had a concealed weapon permit since 1979. Twice, it''s saved me from a dangerous assault -- without a shot fired. The mere display that I was armed sent the aggressor running.
I used to wear my handgun under my jacket at Salt Lake International Airport when picking up friends at baggage, until the airport foolishly banned even that.
So now, if a criminal opens fire in the airport I have nothing but a small Swiss Army knife to defend myself and others.
I don''t put much faith in the police being able to save me. Most of them are average to lousy shots; I practice with my handgun regularly and they don''t.
drugs.
Salt Lake International Airport adopted the ban in the foolish belief it made everyone safer. It doesnt; it only makes it more vulnerable to criminals and terrorists.

[barbaram99]

I have not flown sinse the 80s. Frankly is appalled what that asre has don''t to America. His fear. Yer can''t. the nanny again. They feel yer up,paw thru yer bag. Tell ye yer can''t. So who let the illgeals in this nation and who lied to the American people. There are more drive by shootings and gangs.

[woodpiggie]

Law abiding citizens carying guns in airports is unfair to the international terrorist community. But not to worry, President Obama and his Democrat congress will remidy this in short order!

[payasyougo]

elcantante1 and others like you come out of the woodwork on a regular basis. I read every one of your posts. You, like the others, don''t know what you are talking about. Washington DC and its gun ban speak volumes of statistics on crime and guns and the unarmed law abiding citizens that are caught in the crossfire. And you can blame DC''s astounding gun based murder rate on the easy availability of weapons from surrounding states but again, like the others before you, you would have to ignore the much lower gun murder rate in those surrounding states where the guns are even easier to obtain.

Once again, if you spent just a little time researching the online FBI crime statistics and compare it to the online gun ownership statistics you wouldn''t be so easily discounted as a ranting liberal, teacher, or some news reporter from CA or NY.

Many, many law abiding citizens granted the right to carry a concealed handgun routinely enter areas where they are legally entitled to carry their weapon. I imagine that one of those folks that held the exit door so it didn''t slam in your face could have been one of those carrying. It''s hard to tell a law abiding citizen carrying a licensed concealed weapon apart from any other law abiding citizen.

[payasyougo]

And Joel Rosenberg, if you opened your coat like that in most states it''s considered intentional failure to conceal. It would be a violation of most carry state regulations subject to minimum 30 day suspension and potentially a loss of your CHL.

Do you think you impressed anyone? Not your follow CHL folks I assure you.

[stupidrules3]

There could NOT be a shooting without a gun. Therefore the chances of a shooting are greater in airports allowing guns. The best way to keep shootings out is to keep guns out.



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Posted by elcantante1 at 01:56 PM : Oct 16, 2008

Gun free zones will only work if you set up a checkpoint where everyone has to go through a metal detector. If criminals are intent on carrying guns, they will do so. They do not go through the trouble of getting a permit. It''s a lot like alcohol. It''s illegal to drive drunk, but well nigh impossible to stop everyone who is determined to drive after drinking. Prohibition of alcohol did not stop drinking just as prohibition of guns will not eliminate them.

[woodpiggie]

elcantante1:
If your vision of armed citizens is credible,the state of Israel must not really exist. I recently returned from a five week tour of Israel. I stayed in five major cities and visited numerous villages and sites of historical and Biblical importance.
Armed uniformed and non uniformed Israelis were ubiquitious. I saw teachers, men and women in both Orthodox and secular garb, and group leaders on school field trips with an M16 or .30 carbine slung over their sholders, and/or with holstered semi autos. I saw people openly carying in restraunts and other public places with zero reaction from the public. I can only assume that many other Israelis were carying conceiled. It became very obvious to me that ordinary citizens'' "keeping and bearing" in Israel is common, and not feared or controversial. What I didn''t experience in Israeli cities was fear of walking the streets, day or night. And on the evening newscasts I saw no reports of violent street crime in anyplace that I stayed. Are Jews just genetically less susceptible to crime- causing guns than other people, or ... do guns not cause crime? Do DC murder statistics and African genicidal episodes suggest a racial propensity for violent behavior, or does an unarmed (disarmed) populace invite trouble? Anyone want to disarm America and find out? YOUBETCHA! !