April 19, 2009

Bullfighting's Blood Brothers

60 Minutes Interviews A Star Matador, Who Is Then Nearly Killed In The Ring

  • Play CBS Video Video Blood Brothers Revisited

    Brothers Cayetano and Francisco Ordonez are part of an illustrious bullfighting dynasty in Spain. As Bob Simon reports, they're creating just as much drama outside the ring as in it.

  • Video Deadly Allure Of Bullfighting

    A star matador from Spain explains the deadly allure of bullfighting in an interview with Bob Simon. Cameras later captured him nearly being killed by a bull. Sunday, April 19, 7 p.m. ET/PT.

  • Fast Facts Spain

    Learn about the people, economy and history.

(CBS)  There is a new generation of matadors in Spain who bring more excitement and more spectators into the bull ring than there's been for some time. High on this list are two brothers, Francisco Rivera Ordonez and his kid brother Cayetano.

Last October, 60 Minutes correspondent Bob Simon reported on their exploits inside and outside the ring and there's an update: the Spanish government recently awarded Francisco, the older brother, with the Fine Arts medal - the highest honor any artist can receive.

It led to front page news and to a national scandal. Two previous winners of the award returned their medals in disgust, insisting that Francisco didn't deserve it. His brother Cayetano believes he certainly does deserve it, and after watching and reading this story, you'll understand why.



Francisco Rivera Ordoñez has been fighting for 13 years. In fact, while 60 Minutes was Spain in Spain filming, he fought his 1000th fight. And the crowds couldn’t get enough of him.

Cayetano, his kid brother, has to fight off the crowds. People beg to be touched by their icon. He has been fighting only three years, and although he is still a rookie, he's worshipped all over Spain. He is one of the highest paid matadors in the country.

In fact, the brothers are the two most eligible bachelors in Spain. They each fight around 60 times during the season, and occasionally fight on the same day in the same place.

"When you and Cayetano enter the bull ring together, the crowd goes crazy," Simon remarks.

Referring to Cayetano, Francisco jokes, "More for him, now, 'cause he's younger, he's taller."

Francisco and Cayetano are in different stages of their careers: Cayetano is still blossoming, while Francisco is beginning to think of retirement. The brothers don't like to fight together. They're terrified when the other is in the ring; something awful can happen.

And there's something else: "Of course, there's the competition,” Cayetano tells Simon. “And I'm very happy when he's success…"

"As long as you succeed, too," Simon remarks.

“[As long as I succeed] more," Cayetano says.

It's not just fraternal rivalry that prods them onwards. They are both competing against ghosts.

Their grandfather, Antonio, was the greatest matador of the last 50 years. Hemingway, Orson Welles, Rita Hayworth, Grace Kelly all came to pay homage to the maestro. The boys' father was Paquirri, a legendary matador of his time.

Continued



Produced by Michael Gavshon and Paul Bellinger
© MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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Add a Comment See all 141 Comments
by hejira-2009 October 20, 2008 4:40 AM EDT
Thank you for the report on Fran and Cayetano. Now I''d like to see one on the two real stars of this Spanish season--Jose Tomas and Miguel Angel Perera.
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by carlylaine October 20, 2008 7:55 AM EDT
Bull fighting is a great sport and art. Any good hunting is an art form, but I choose not to participate or even watch...because these people are killing a beautiful animal for the sake of pride and adulation of the masses.

That''s their choice..it''s my choice not to be involved. But I still appreciate their verve.

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by pirmin3 October 20, 2008 1:05 PM EDT
Too bad the moron didn''t get killed!! That is truly a sick and perverse "sport".
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by jn122736 October 20, 2008 1:22 PM EDT
Too bad the moron didn''''t get killed!! That is truly a sick and perverse "sport".

Posted by pirmin3 at 10:05 AM : Oct 20, 2008
~~~~~~~~~

I hope you remember that remark while you are enjoying yor steak supper, which could very well be from the same bull.
Reply to this comment
by spacecat56 October 20, 2008 2:53 PM EDT
After dismissing objections to bullfighting by "animal lovers" your entire story is overtly sympathetic to the bullfighters. You tell us of their fame, of the excitement they experience. It''s good that you pointed out that the risks in the ring are uneven - "it''s all over for the bull"; but many viewers missed your point.

One of those men has publicly tormented and then killed more than 1000 bulls using sword and spear, merely for the thrill of danger and the entertainment of a crowd. Here that would net him 2000 years in prison. In Spain it makes him a national hero.

I''m no vegan and have no sympathy with PETA - but this activity is evil, and the culture that admires it is disgusting and out of place in the modern world. You owe it to your audience to be more clear about the facts and more balanced in your presentation of how those facts are viewed.
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by spacecat56 October 20, 2008 3:10 PM EDT
I hope you remember that remark while you are enjoying yor steak supper, which could very well be from the same bull.

That is just silly.

1. The animal was bred for fighting then tortured to death. There''s no way it then ends up as a person''s "steak dinner": the meat is both tough and spoiled by lactic acid buildup. More likely it''s meat will dried, powdered, and fed to cows as an admix to their grain.

2. Eating meat does not oblige one to accept ritual killing. We have laws concerning the treatment of animals. We do not permit them to ritually tormented and tortured to death, let alone for someone''s sick thrill. Yes, there are abuses - but we recognize them as *crimes*, not as something admirable.


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by mgeddis20 October 20, 2008 4:01 PM EDT
Bull fighting, when done properly is a beautiful and amazing sport. It is neither cruel nor inhumane. The bulls lead very nice lives before they are taken to the ring and are only made to suffer for twenty minutes or so. I have never seen a Spanish bull fight but I presume they are not too different from those I saw in France where after the fight, the bull is taken straight to market, its meat sold to restaurants as a delicacy. Bull fighting is a messy, controversial sport but the thing to remember is that it''s culture. Whether you agree or disagree it''s no one''s place to say it''s wrong just because it''s different.
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by andaleirc July 13, 2009 4:54 AM EDT
Bullfighting is the culture of those who simply benefit from torture!
by spacecat56 October 20, 2008 5:02 PM EDT
mgeddis20 says the bulls "are only made to suffer for twenty minutes or so" and that "it''s no one''s place to say it''s wrong just because it''s different".

That''s mistaken. It is indeed my place, as a moral adult human, to judge this activity and to say that tormenting animals for entertainment and thrills is evil. The "beauty" of the ritual is part of what makes it so deeply abhorrent: dressing up the cruelty with pageantry.

Cruel actions are not excused by being part of a "culture", i.e. something that has been done and accepted for a while by a particular group. The catalog of evils that would be accepted under that fallacious rule is mind boggling.
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by aperg October 20, 2008 5:46 PM EDT
Bob Simon should be ashamed of his "reporting." The piece is totally biased. Mr Simon didn''t even have the guts to ask the matadors to respond to the controversy surrounding this blood "sport." Bullfighting is viewed by other European nations as barbaric and the fact that it''s been around for years by no means legitimizes it. This was a totally imbalanced piece -- doesn''t even rise to the term "journalism." Mr Simon should know that a journalist is obligated to present both sides of a story. But he didn''t even bother interviewing a sigle one of the millions of people in this world who are offended by the idea of watching an animal be tortured for sport. If he didn''t want to give the other side a voice in his story, he could have asked these brothers how they respond to the criticism. A lame story that seemed to be written by the brothers'' publicist. I expect more from 60 Minutes.
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by mwintroath October 20, 2008 6:25 PM EDT
Like so many people outside of this particular world and country, I find the "sport" of bullfighting cruel and unusual, but I must abide by the fact that it is a centuries-old sport in Spain and it''s not about to go away.

I would like to correct Mr. Simon on one thing. He stated in his story that their mother, Carmen Ordonez was Paquirri''a widow. She was not. They had divorced. His widow is Isabel Pantoja a well known singer in Spain who had a son by Paquirri and who has not yet shown interest in following in his father or step-brothers''sport.
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by juanca7 October 20, 2008 6:39 PM EDT
This goes to spacecat56 on his/her comment about the Spanish culture being disgusting because bullfighting is popular there. I''m a native Spanish, living in the US for a number of years. I never cared for bullfighting and I only read these comments by accident, but here are a couple thoughts.

Bullfighting is just another sport where animals are killed. To me, bow and arrow hunting is worse because if the hunter doesn''t hit a critical point the animal can take off and suffer a very slow death (hours). Since you are not pro PETA, I%u2019d assume you are ok with this type of hunting. So according to your own logic, the US culture is a pretty disgusting one as well.

I just think you got this wrong. You are mixing your own prejudices with the bullfight issue. Just say bullfighting is wrong because you think it is, but don%u2019t label a whole country the way you did because of the limited knowledge you may have of my people.
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by dabrunea October 20, 2008 6:45 PM EDT
Dear 60 Minutes
How dare you promote the discusting barbaric "sport" of bull fighting.
"The greatness of a nation and it''s moral progress can be judged by the way that it''s animals are treated .. Gandhi
Shame on Spain, and shame on you for not even mentioning the cruelty to the animals. It was a perfect teaching moment, and you blew it.
Denise Bruneau
Milwaukee, WI
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by Countrykenrs October 20, 2008 7:02 PM EDT
Sixty minutes has really slithered into the mire by nuzzling up to the "Blood Brothers" with this story. I hear that Michael Vick is still hanging out. If you are this hard up for a story maybe you could spread your adulation around and interview him in jail.
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by rlwtoreria October 20, 2008 7:38 PM EDT
For those that are misinformed, some facts:

1. Fighting bulls live betweeen 4 and 5 years on very large open range ranches. They are worth a lot of money and live an ideal life before going to the bullring. They have a much better life than domestic cattle that live 9-14 months in tight pens and are fattened up for the slaughter.

2. The bulls ALWAYS go for meat directly after the bullfight. It is hardy meat (not tender veal), but the meat is ALWAYS sold to the butcher directly after the bullfight and is ALWAYS consumed by people.

3. When a bull performs exceptionally well the audience can petition to have the animal spared. It will then go back to the ranch and be a stud bull with a harem of 50 cows for the rest of its life.

4. Without the bullfight the entire race of the fighting bull (toro de lidia) would become extinct. This bull is a completely different breed of animal than domestic cattle. It is a beautiful, majestic and wild animal. The bullfight guarantees this animal''s preservation. Ban the bullfight and we lose this species.

5. There are bullfights in Spain, France, Mexico, Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, and Venezuela. It has especially grown in popularity in France in the last few decades as there are hundreds of events in hundreds of bullrings every season in France. Portugal also has bullfights but the bull is not killed in the ring in front of the audience, it is killed 5 minutes afterwards in the corrals and then goes for meat.
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by jdk671 October 20, 2008 7:40 PM EDT
This "blood brothers" story was a huge disappointment. What a missed opportunity to educate viewers about the horrific cruelty that''s inflicted on these bulls. There is so much that''s unseen in this cowardly event.

The matador has the choice to be there %u2013 the bull does not. From the moment he enters the ring from the dark alleyway where he is kept, the bull doesn%u2019t stand a chance. He may be weakened by beatings with sandbags, have the muscles in his neck cut in order to prevent him from lifting his head up all the way, be debilitated with laxatives, have his horns shaved or have petroleum jelly rubbed into his eyes in order to alter his ability to judge distance.

For those who want to know more about this barbaric outdated ritual, visit:
http://www.runningofthenudes.com/bullfighting_facts.asp
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by shmagnolia October 20, 2008 8:48 PM EDT
How dare you glorify the horrible practice (it is not a sport) of bull fighting. That was the most disappointing piece I have ever seen on your show. I have no sympathy for anyone injured or killed fighting a bull. The bullfighter has a choice to be in the ring - the bull does not.
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by dannykp October 20, 2008 9:30 PM EDT
That will be the last time I watch 60 Minutes. What a sad excuse for journalism. Did Mr. Simon, I wonder, do any reporting? As a journalist for the New York Times who just returned from Spain, I was shocked to realize that Mr. Simon didn''t even mention that bullfighting is HUGELY unpopular and controversial in Spain. It is considered unbelievably cruel and archaic, and rightly so. To glorify something so awful and inhumane is worse than shoddy journalism--it''s downright despicable. 60 Minutes has lost all claim to calling itself a news show.
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by cazalis-2009 October 20, 2008 10:06 PM EDT
As usual, the Americans confuse sport with performance. As usual the confuse politics with passion. And as still seems to be the case they forget where they''re leather shoes and steaks come from and through what process they come about. And lest I forget the Chileans, Cubans, Mexicans, Panamanians, Philippinos, Vietnamese, Koreans, Afghans and Iraqi innocent people that died in your politically and economically motivated wars did not choose to be under your bombds either.

You want stop animal suffering? Stop it first in your neighborhood, in your city, in your state and your country.

Rubbish!! Your all so good at spreading the "word" elsewhere.
Reply to this comment
by cazalis-2009 October 20, 2008 10:07 PM EDT
As usual, the Americans confuse sport with performance. As usual the confuse politics with passion. And as still seems to be the case they forget where they''re leather shoes and steaks come from and through what process they come about. And lest I forget the Chileans, Cubans, Mexicans, Panamanians, Philippinos, Vietnamese, Koreans, Afghans and Iraqi innocent people that died in your politically and economically motivated wars did not choose to be under your bombds either.

You want stop animal suffering? Stop it first in your neighborhood, in your city, in your state and your country.

Rubbish!! Your all so good at spreading the "word" elsewhere.
Reply to this comment
by facl115 October 20, 2008 10:56 PM EDT
It could be a matter of a thesis in Psychology, but it''s amazing how blind people are to their own failings; most of the adverse comments about bullfighting are people that say nothing about boxing, and kick boxing and the cruelties of hunting deer and bear and other game not to mention sports fishing right here in our midst; wake up folks there is a lot to fix here before playing the hypocritical righteousness...ah and they showed on tv the other day horrendous treatment of commercial cattle in this country, animals that for years are confined and made eat day and night to then be killed to feed the humongous hunger for beef in this country (witness McDonalds, Burger King, etc.) a fighting bull grows pampered four years of his life to die in 20 minutes, have no doubt I''d choose to be a fighting bull than a bull commercially grown in this country for meat...
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by esperanza32 October 21, 2008 2:13 AM EDT
I felt like the segment was a set up for us to watch matadors get gored. This is the part that offended me.
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by srivera10 October 21, 2008 3:47 AM EDT
I would like to applaud 60 Minutes for the piece on the Rivera Ordonez brothers.
For all of those who criticize bullfighting, first look at what you eat and wear. Are all of you vegans? Do you understand what the process is for all of the cellophane wrapped meats/poultry at the grocery markets and leather shoes, purses, belts, and wallets you all use and wear?
Bullfighting is part of a culture. The entire country of Spain may not agree with the sport, but it is arrogant to state that one comment is a representation for all of Europe or Spain.
Also, from what I have read, Carmen Rivera Ordonez divorced Paquirri, not annulled their marriage so technically she was still his widow.
The Rivera Ordonez brothers have not only my admiration but also my prayers for their continued success and safety.
I thank them for holding true to the Spanish culture.
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by goodsense2 October 21, 2008 4:57 AM EDT
It''s fascinating to me how Americans draw conclusions with a total lack of knowledge and culture. We are one minded and are unable to imagine that anything other than our experience is valuable. Bullfighting is not a sport. There is history and art involved in bullfighting. Brave Bulls are not oxes. They are a unique spices with very unusual traits. Only if you take time to understand what a Brave bull is can you begin to have an enlightened opinion about Bullfighting. You might not like it, but you won''t sound inane when expressing your opinion about this art. By the way, aren''t we a country that has gone to war, killed foreigners and had our kids killed. How do we want the world to think about us. In the same simplistic way we judge the world or with a dose of reflection, knowledge, intelligence. Reading some comments here I''m not convinced some of us are capable of that.
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by dannykp October 21, 2008 11:57 AM EDT
That will be the last time I watch 60 Minutes. What a sad excuse for journalism. Did Mr. Simon, I wonder, do any reporting? As a journalist for the New York Times who just returned from Spain, I was shocked to realize that Mr. Simon didn''t even mention that bullfighting is HUGELY unpopular and controversial in Spain. It is considered unbelievably cruel and archaic, and rightly so. To glorify something so awful and inhumane is worse than shoddy journalism--it''s downright despicable. 60 Minutes has lost all claim to calling itself a news show.
Reply to this comment
by dannykp October 21, 2008 12:09 PM EDT
That will be the last time I watch 60 Minutes. What a sad excuse for journalism. Did Mr. Simon, I wonder, do any reporting? As a journalist for the New York Times who just returned from Spain, I was shocked to realize that Mr. Simon didn''t even mention that bullfighting is HUGELY unpopular and controversial in Spain. It is considered unbelievably cruel and archaic, and rightly so. To glorify something so awful and inhumane is worse than shoddy journalism--it''s downright despicable. 60 Minutes has lost all claim to calling itself a news show.
Reply to this comment
by dannykp October 21, 2008 12:11 PM EDT
Please don''t justify the cruelty of bullfighting by pointing to its tradition and history. By that measure, slavery merits a second look.
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by cazalis-2009 October 21, 2008 12:21 PM EDT
As usual, the Americans confuse sport with performance. Yet I''m not surprised others who defend it also call it sport.

As Oxford says:

Sport, noun. an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

Bullfighting is not a competition, in fact the name bull fighting is erroneous in it''s translation as the Spanish don''t see it and never have as a fight.

As usual Americans confuse politics with passion. And as still seems to be the case they forget where they''re leather shoes and steaks come from and through what process they come about. And lest I forget the Chileans, Cubans, Mexicans, Panamanians, Philippinos, Vietnamese, Koreans, Afghans and Iraqi innocent people that died in your politically and economically motivated wars did not choose to be under your bombs either.

You want to stop animal suffering? I think that''s really good and you should. Stop it and fight agaisnt it first in your neighborhood, in your city, in your state and your country.

Rubbish!! Your all so good at spreading the "word" elsewhere.

Reply to this comment
by spacecat56 October 21, 2008 1:07 PM EDT
There''s a lot of eyewash about the bravery of the bullfighters, the idyllic life of bulls, supposedly comparable activities, etc. How well you treat an animal before you torment it to death is gnerally irrelevant. In this case, it is actually part of the crime: the bulls are alllowed to run "free" precisely so that that they will provide better sport! These are all just distractions from a very simple matter. The essence of it is this:

1. It is evil to inflict pain on a living creature in order to derive pleasure.

2. In bullfighting a bull is tormented, injured, and ultimately killed in order to provide thrills for the bullfighter and entertainment for an audience.

3. Therefore, bullfighting is evil.


There is no real comparison to bow hunting. Bow hunters are not national heroes. Bullfighters are. I can, and I do, condemn the entire culture that celebrates blood sports:

1. A culture that glorifies evil activity is contemptible and should not be tolerated.

2. In Spanish culture, bullfighting is extremely popular and bullfighters are celebrated "national heroes"

3. As proven above, bullfighting is evil.

4. Therefore, Spanish culture is contemptible and should not be tolerated.


Everything else is just distraction - cape-waving. Sure there are "good things" in Spanish culture - so what? It is deeply corrupted by the celebration of blood sports. It is, as I said earlier, disgusting.
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by spacecat56 October 21, 2008 1:27 PM EDT
cazalis says "...they forget where they''''re leather shoes and steaks come from..." and "...You want stop animal suffering? Stop it first in your neighborhood..."

These points are utterly irrelevant to the question of BULLFIGHTING; cazalis is just waving his cape to try to distract us. The possibility of *some other evil occurring elsewhere* does not excuse or prevent one from objecting to a particular evil under discussion!

These points are also wrong. My shoes and steaks don''t come from public torment of an animal for pleasure. And if my neighbor is fighting dogs or beating his horse, that''s a crime, not a national celebration!

All of this cape waving about the brave and rare bull, other things that may also be objectionable, etc. etc. simply expose the fact that bullfighting is in fact indefensible. Rather than defend it, those who favor it must distract us from it. They can''t deal with the essence of the matter: it is evil to inflict pain and suffering in order to derive pleasure.

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by skykliner October 21, 2008 1:50 PM EDT
It is ludicrous to justify an act of savagery by labelling it "tradition," which is nothing more than an activity done by groups of people for a long time. Dressing up in colorful garb with a musical background doesn''t disguise the agony and terror suffered by the bull and it is disgusting that people would gather to watch, and actually enjoy, such brutality. There are always simpletons who try to distract from the issue by pointing to other acts of cruelty, like factory farming. It is absurd to imagine that we would refrain from helping an injured or starving person by pointing to all the impoverished countries where people suffer worse. Pointing to other issues does not lessen the suffering of the bull. This is inhumanity at its worst because people view this as entertainment. I couldn''t bear to watch this segment of "60 Minutes" thought I normally find the program enlightening and educational. I guess I am stuck with having a soul.
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by susannad-2009 October 21, 2008 8:05 PM EDT
How sad, so much print devoted to a family that has no idea what real courage is or what a real fight is. Dragging an innocent animal out of a peaceful grazing field, forcing him into darkness, beating him repeatedly, blinding his eyes with caustic chemicals, weakening him with all manner of brutality against his physical and emotional body BEFORE he even enters the arena is NOT A FIGHT, it is TORTURE, ANIMAL ABUSE,SADISM, SAVAGERY, and the most unspeakable crime against animals anywhere! Spaniards do not want to be known for this cruelty, it is the greedy nobility who hang on to it, they are a disgrace!! The international community frowns upon this outdated savagery!
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by hejira-2009 October 22, 2008 8:23 AM EDT
Toreo is an art, not a sport. While the argument that killing an animal as part of an artistic performance is immoral may be valid, you lose credibility when you propagate lies such as the bull being beaten and having caustic substances rubbed in his eyes. Simply put, the basis of toreo is that the matador stands still and moves the lure to get the bull to follow it instead of hitting the matador. Good eyesight is essential for this to work and a bull with poor eyesight is considered more dangerous, not less. Yet supposedly rational people continue to spread ludicrous lies about vaseline being put into a bulls eyes so it sees poorly before it enters the ring. Ditto re: beatings occuring in the corrals, etc. Serious gorings are common but anti''s would have us believe that the bull is weak and defenseless--ridiculous when you consider how many toreros are gored every year. Artists the stature of Picasso have painted toreo, writers from Lorca to Hemingway have written of it and there are countless poetry books, songs, etc. dedicated to it. It is a cruel art, but an art none the less.
Reply to this comment
by hejira-2009 October 22, 2008 8:25 AM EDT
Toreo is an art, not a sport. While the argument that killing an animal as part of an artistic performance is immoral may be valid, you lose credibility when you propagate lies such as the bull being beaten and having caustic substances rubbed in his eyes. Simply put, the basis of toreo is that the matador stands still and moves the lure to get the bull to follow it instead of hitting the matador. Good eyesight is essential for this to work and a bull with poor eyesight is considered more dangerous, not less. Yet supposedly rational people continue to spread ludicrous lies about vaseline being put into a bulls eyes so it sees poorly before it enters the ring. Ditto re: beatings occuring in the corrals, etc. Serious gorings are common but anti''s would have us believe that the bull is weak and defenseless--ridiculous when you consider how many toreros are gored every year. Artists the stature of Picasso have painted toreo, writers from Lorca to Hemingway have written of it and there are countless poetry books, songs, etc. dedicated to it. It is a cruel art, but an art none the less.
Reply to this comment
by hejira-2009 October 22, 2008 8:29 AM EDT
Toreo is an art, not a sport. While the argument that killing an animal as part of an artistic performance being immoral may be valid, you lose credibility when you propagate lies such as the bull being beaten & having caustic substances rubbed in his eyes. Simply put, the basis of toreo is that the matador stands still & moves the lure to get the bull to follow it instead of hitting the matador. Good eyesight is essential for this to work & a bull with poor eyesight is considered more dangerous, not less. Yet supposedly rational people continue to spread ludicrous lies about vaseline being put into a bulls eyes so it sees poorly before it enters the ring. Ditto re: beatings occuring in the corrals, etc. Serious gorings are common but anti''s would have us believe that the bull is weak & defenseless. Ridiculous when you consider how many toreros are gored every year & how many have been killed. Artists the stature of Picasso have painted toreo, writers from Lorca to Hemingway have written of it & there are countless poetry books, songs and films dedicated to it. It is a cruel art, but an art none the less.
Reply to this comment
by spacecat56 October 22, 2008 2:01 PM EDT
Hejira, in her obnoxiously repeated post, says "the argument that killing an animal as part of an artistic performance being immoral may be valid, you lose credibility when you propagate lies".

She has that half right.

Yes, tormenting and killing an animal in a so-called "artistic performance" is immoral.

But no, nothing else that may be said has any bearing on the "credibility" of that obvious truth. Regardless of whether it may be correct and proven, or not.

As before, supporters of this activity cannot just address the basic truth of the matter, they resort to cape-waving in an attempt to distract and confuse.

Repeating your post times does not make it any more true. It is, however, an abuse of this board and has been reported as such.
Reply to this comment
by klvthatsme October 22, 2008 2:33 PM EDT
SICK !! These people are no better than terrorists. No different than dog fighting or *** fighting or domestic abuse and I''m sure there are other things out there we don''t even know about. How can a human being think this is OK.
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by don-nacho October 22, 2008 2:57 PM EDT
Thank you CBS "60 Minutes" for enlightening people about the Corrida de Toros, the most beautiful Fiesta of all the fiestas, in spite of what the misinformed or malintentioned people might say. Kudos to all those who contributed in making the documentary about the Ordonez brothers a very enjoyable one.
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by usrm October 22, 2008 3:01 PM EDT
Thank you 60 Minutes for the Rivera Ordonez bullfight story. It was a gutsy move to air a story about two brothers who "bullfight". But that is what has made 60 Minutes the successful program it has been for years and kept viewers like me loyal.
You air a story and I draw my own conclusions.
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by golfcamp2 October 22, 2008 5:49 PM EDT

I last saw Francisco in 1986 at my summer camp in Maine, practicing his passes with a cape and sword out on the baseball field of my summer camp that the boys had been sent to by their mother. She wanted them to be away from Europe and Jeffery Lyons the film critic, whose family was friends with Hemingway and the Ordonez family had recommended Kennebec, my summer camp for boys in rustic Belgrade, Maine. Francisco was an amazing athlete and blew by me on the basketball court, though he hardly even knew the rules, let alone the skills.

Cayatano was quiet and shy and the protected younger brother. He did not exhibit any interest in bull fighting at all.

Both boys were supremely well liked and majestically polite and powerful at the same time. Their english was minimal but their command of the moment was unrivaled.

I have been interviewed from time to time about what it was like to have the "Kennedy Children of Europe" at our all boys, spartan and rustic camp.

It was, I imagine,like being in the audience of one of their fights today. Every time I saw them it was magical.

I only wish to tell them that the director, I, known to them as Uncle Joel, thinks of them and hopes to see their smiling faces once again. Perhaps on Lake Salmon at their old camp, which has kept up with the times and has adopted a new theme of Golf, Tennis and Hockey to lure the young princes and princesses of the world.

Please, if you can send them my warmest wishes and hello. Rip Rah Rex




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by golfcamp2 October 22, 2008 5:50 PM EDT

I last saw Francisco in 1986 at my summer camp in Maine, practicing his passes with a cape and sword out on the baseball field of my summer camp that the boys had been sent to by their mother. She wanted them to be away from Europe and Jeffery Lyons the film critic, whose family was friends with Hemingway and the Ordonez family had recommended Kennebec, my summer camp for boys in rustic Belgrade, Maine. Francisco was an amazing athlete and blew by me on the basketball court, though he hardly even knew the rules, let alone the skills.

Cayatano was quiet and shy and the protected younger brother. He did not exhibit any interest in bull fighting at all.

Both boys were supremely well liked and majestically polite and powerful at the same time. Their english was minimal but their command of the moment was unrivaled.

I have been interviewed from time to time about what it was like to have the "Kennedy Children of Europe" at our all boys, spartan and rustic camp.

It was, I imagine,like being in the audience of one of their fights today. Every time I saw them it was magical.

I only wish to tell them that the director, I, known to them as Uncle Joel, thinks of them and hopes to see their smiling faces once again. Perhaps on Lake Salmon at their old camp, which has kept up with the times and has adopted a new theme of Golf, Tennis and Hockey to lure the young princes and princesses of the world.

Please, if you can send them my warmest wishes and hello. Rip Rah Rex




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by spacecat56 October 22, 2008 7:11 PM EDT
golfcamp2 talks about what wonderful boys these evil men used to be, and hopes to see them again.

New for you! You shouldn''t be seeing them in Maine, their occupation is a felony anywhere in the USA and they are not eligible to enter the country!

And a reality check please! I don''t care how sweet someone is while tormenting an animal for thrills: the act is evil and the best you can say is that maybe that *used to be* a good person but now he is corrupted by an evil obsession.
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by bcrpeanutsmom April 19, 2009 7:44 PM EDT
I cannot believe you are showcasing such a blood sport. This is disgusting, brutal and cruel.
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by MaineWriter April 19, 2009 8:09 PM EDT
To Spacecat56

From what I understand, the bull is butchered and the meat is often given to charity. A fitting end, following a noble last stand. Much better than the slaughter houses we have here in the United States. At least these Spanish bulls are cultivated, strengthened, respected and revered throughout their lives before meeting their demise!
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by ricjoan April 19, 2009 8:13 PM EDT
This was THE most deplorable news segment I have ever seen. This ranks with Dog fighting and **** fighting. Why not highlight Michael Vick as a hero on your next episode. I truly doubt I will ever watch 60 Minutes in the future.
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by gold_matter April 19, 2009 8:21 PM EDT
Animal torture. CBS should be ashamed.
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by Sensecheckguy April 19, 2009 8:29 PM EDT
Did anyone notice the correspondent's reference to Spain as a "progressive country" because they have gay marriage, quickie divorce and legalized abortion? What kind of definition is that? How sad.

Oh, I forgot. This is CBS. I should not have been surprised.
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by megan25r April 19, 2009 8:30 PM EDT
This story disgusted me so much that I had to get up and leave the room. To show a bleeding, defenseless bull dying in the ring is beyond distasteful. It truly upsetted and angered me. I think Spain is a dispicable country for allowing such inhumane treatment of animals. What barbaric & sick people they are to go and watch a defenseless animal that THEY MADE get into the ring be slaughtered and murdered. What crazy, twisted people call that entertainment? I hope the brothers have the same fate as their father. I'm very disapointed and disgusted by 60 Minutes' decision to report this story. I am literally sick to my stomach. I hope this is the last piece 60 Minutes chooses to show that glamorizes animal cruelty
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by AranM April 19, 2009 8:46 PM EDT
I have watched 60 Minutes for many years and before tonight had always enjoyed the balanced and responsible journalism. It saddens me that none of the people involved in producing tonight's story were disgusted by the cruelty of bullfighting and the abhorent images of a "man" causing an innocent animal to suffer for "sport". This may be a tradition in Spain but that is no justification for continuing this practice. There was a time when slavery was also a tradition.

I hope CBS will see tonight's story on bullfighting as a serious lapse in judgement and will ensure nothing similar is broadcast in the future. Next time it happens you will lose me for good.
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by kopcake April 19, 2009 8:51 PM EDT
I completely agree with the commentator who feels the things CBS thinks are signs of a progressive culture (gay marriage, abortion and quickie divorces) are just the opposite, all these things are destructive to our societies. But am I the only one who thought the spot ended too abruptly?
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by scauchi1 April 19, 2009 8:55 PM EDT
I find the glorification of this barbarian sport and the participants disgusting. I don't think it was bold of 60 Minutes to air this story; I think it was misguided. In an era of violence and moral uncertainty this is appalling. That this activity (I refusing to call it a sport) continues is as shocking as so many of the inhumane activities that occur across the world. Ghandi said that a society is judged by the way it treats its most vulnerable. Torturing innocent animals, particular in the name of sport casts poor judgement upon Spain and upon 60 Minutes. You should be ashamed.
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