All That Money You Lost - Where Did It Go?

Surprise! It Was Never Really Money In The First Place

(AP)  Trillions in stock market value - gone. Trillions in retirement savings - gone. A huge chunk of the money you paid for your house, the money you're saving for college, the money your boss needs to make payroll - gone, gone, gone.

Whether you're a stock broker or Joe Six-pack, if you have a 401(k), a mutual fund or a college savings plan, tumbling stock markets and sagging home prices mean you've lost a whole lot of the money that was right there on your account statements just a few months ago.

But if you no longer have that money, who does? The fat cats on Wall Street? Some oil baron in Saudi Arabia? The government of China?

Or is it just - gone?

If you're looking to track down your missing money - figure out who has it now, maybe ask to have it back - you might be disappointed to learn that is was never really money in the first place.

Robert Shiller, an economist at Yale, puts it bluntly: The notion that you lose a pile of money whenever the stock market tanks is a "fallacy." He says the price of a stock has never been the same thing as money - it's simply the "best guess" of what the stock is worth.

"It's in people's minds," Shiller explains. "We're just recording a measure of what people think the stock market is worth. What the people who are willing to trade today - who are very, very few people - are actually trading at. So we're just extrapolating that and thinking, well, maybe that's what everyone thinks it's worth."

Shiller uses the example of an appraiser who values a house at $350,000, a week after saying it was worth $400,000.

"In a sense, $50,000 just disappeared when he said that," he said. "But it's all in the mind."

Though something, of course, is disappearing as markets and real estate values tumble. Even if a share of stock you own isn't a wad of bills in your wallet, even if the value of your home isn't something you can redeem at will, surely you can lose potential money - that is, the money that would be yours to spend if you sold your house or emptied out your mutual funds right now.

And if you're a few months away from retirement, or hoping to sell your house and buy a smaller one to help pay for your kid's college tuition, this "potential money" is something you're counting on to get by. For people who need cash and need it now, this is as real as money gets, whether or not it meets the technical definition of the word.

Still, you run into trouble when you think of that potential money as being the same thing as the cash in your purse or your checking account.

"That's a big mistake," says Dale Jorgenson, an economics professor at Harvard.

There's a key distinction here: While the money in your pocket is unlikely to just vanish into thin air, the money you could have had, if only you'd sold your house or drained your stock-heavy mutual funds a year ago, most certainly can.

"You can't enjoy the benefits of your 401(k) if it's disappeared," Jorgenson explains. "If you had it all in financial stocks and they've all gone down by 80 percent - sorry! That is a permanent loss because those folks aren't coming back. We're gonna have a huge shrinkage in the financial sector."

There was a time when nobody had to wonder what happened to the money they used to have. Until paper money was developed in China around the ninth century, money was something solid that had actual value - like a gold coin that was worth whatever that amount of gold was worth, according to Douglas Mudd, curator of the American Numismatic Association's Money Museum in Denver.

Back then, if the money you once had was suddenly gone, there was a simple reason - you spent it, someone stole it, you dropped it in a field somewhere, or maybe a tornado or some other disaster struck wherever you last put it down.

But these days, a lot of things that have monetary value can't be held in your hand.

If you choose, you can pour most of your money into stocks and track their value in real time on a computer screen, confident that you'll get good money for them when you decide to sell. And you won't be alone - staring at millions of computer screens are other investors who share your confidence that the value of their portfolios will hold up.

But that collective confidence, Jorgenson says, is gone. And when confidence is drained out of a financial system, a lot of investors will decide to sell at any price, and a big chunk of that money you thought your investments were worth simply goes away.

If you once thought your investment portfolio was as good as a suitcase full of twenties, you might suddenly suspect that it's not.

In the process, of course, you're losing wealth. But does that mean someone else must be gaining it? Does the world have some fixed amount of wealth that shifts between people, nations and institutions with the ebb and flow of the economy?

Jorgenson says no - the amount of wealth in the world "simply decreases in a situation like this." And he cautions against assuming that your investment losses mean a gain for someone else - like wealthy stock speculators who try to make money by betting that the market will drop.

"Those folks in general have been losing their shirts at a prodigious rate," he said. "They took a big risk and now they're suffering from the consequences."

"Of course, they had a great life, as long as it lasted."

[ubrew12]

Article: "Robert Shiller, an economist at Yale, puts it bluntly: The notion that you lose a pile of money whenever the stock market tanks is a ''fallacy.'' He says the price of a stock has never been the same thing as money "

Thanks. That''ll pay the rent...

[ubrew12]

Article: "you run into trouble when you think of that potential money as being the same thing as the cash in your purse or your checking account. "That''s a big mistake," says Dale Jorgenson, an economics professor at Harvard. There''s a key distinction here: While the money in your pocket is unlikely to just vanish into thin air, the money you could have had, if only you''d sold your house or drained your stock-heavy mutual funds a year ago, most certainly can. "

And the years of your life you lost, working to pad your 401k, they were never really there either. Indeed, your whole life has been a cosmic joke.

Enjoy...

[walt1944-2009]

Who has our money??? According to economists, people who lost money in the stock market, in their IRA''s in mutual funds, never really lost "money" because it never really existed!!!!

And because you "lost" money you never really had and never did exist, you will NEVER GET IT BACK!!!!

Amazingly, the Great Emperor Bush II was able to get Congress to find $700 BILLION to thrown at financial institutions which never had your "phantom" money in the first place!!!!!!!!

Is it just me, or do I smell a SUPER HUGE SCAM here???????????

Move over Robert Redord and Paul Newman, The Great Emperor Bush II has you beat with the GREATEST, BIGGEST, NASTIEST STING OF all time!!!!!!!

SIG HEIL, LETS PRINT MORE PHANTOM "FUNNY MONEY"!!!, BUSH!!!
sig heil, I''M REALLY GLAD I DON''T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ECONOMICS!!!, McBush!!!
sig heil, SO WHAT IF REPUBLICANS ARE CROOKS, OBAMA IS A TERRRRRRORRIST!!!, Palin!!!!

[mcv57]

He did not say that when cash is just valueless paper; gold always seems to find bartering value.

[jerr11]

How about the Liar-in-Chief in the white house who put us in this hole?

Was he never really the president in the first place?

And the war in Iraq, is that never really a war in the first place?

And the 4180 Dead Americans killed in Iraq for Halliburton?

Were they never really our sons, daughters, mothers, and fathers in the first place?

[mcv57]

... silver is a poor man''s gold.

[neo269]

"If you had it all in financial stocks and they''ve all gone down by 80 percent - sorry! That is a permanent loss because those folks aren''t coming back. We''re gonna have a huge shrinkage in the financial sector."

They were way overvalued anyway. No investor lost money - only scumbag speculators did.

[jerr11]

This economic disaster started on March 20, 2003.

That was the day that Bush decided to take the nation to war so that he could do to the US what Bin Laden did to the Soviet Union, bankrupt us in an endless war.

And now five years later, the chickens have come home to roost.

The Cowboy from Texas has decided he will ride out of office in a blaze of glory.

Thousands Dead Americans in Iraq.

The country''s economy decimated.

Millions lost their savings and retirement funds.

But hey, there''s one bright spot in all this gloom and doom!

Halliburton''s doing well!

Let''s keep this war going for another 100 years!!

Vote for McCain/Palin 08!!

[luvcomments]

He''s right. And it''s why so many people are adamant that we should never have been tricked into doing away with gold behind the currency. It''s a bunch of useless, worthless printed paper IOU''s. What good is an IOU if the entity issuing it can''t pay up?

[random_radar]

If you think the dollar is worthless now, wait until the government prints 10 or 100 times more money in the next couple of years to bail out the rich. Zimbabwe here we come!

[eroosevelt08]

When the economy sinks like it is the US Government usually likes to spend money on defense so it can start more fights in the world. I would think that it is time buy defense company stocks like Rockwell Collins (COL), Raytheon or Lockheed Martin because those are probably what will be going up.

[leighg1]

BUT WE PUT AWAY INTO THE ACCOUNT REAL MONEY $3200/mon from our pay check. That''s real, Or not?

[eroosevelt08]

If we get inflation we can pay off our mortgages with play money.

[eddieusa]

Buy valuable ammunition and pay for it with worthless Federal Reserve Notes. You can''''t lose.


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Posted by DeckardBR at 01:05 AM : Oct 12, 2008


Can''t agree with you more. Investing in commodities like lead and copper won''t hurt...
Gold - overpriced in my opinion, plus you can''t eat it.
Just wonder, how is "The One" is going to pay for free healthcare for everyone?

[incog-nito]

Total B.S. The money you lost is not just a figment of your imagination. Say you bought a house for $300K at the height of the housing boom, that money went to the seller, whether it''s an individual or a home builder. If it''s only worth $200K now, YOU OWE the difference. Similarly if you''re contributing regularly to your 401K and your portfolio dropped by 30%, YOU LOST that money. Somebody sold the shares to you (or your mutual fund manager) at the higher price before the drop. For every dollar somebody lost, somebody else gained.

[lastdance127]

Censored From ABC News :

The US Auto Manufacture BAIL-OUT
Any Japanese Car Sold in the US by an US Auto Manufacturer
That money goes into a Japanese Controlled Bank in the US
At Night The Money is Transferred To Banks in Japan
The Same with The "GERMAN" Auto Maker

Dahlmer-Chrysler __ Get it Yet ??

The Money that is Given to US Auto Manufactures
Does NOT STAY in The United States

The Achievement of : Criminal Corporate NAZI Fascist America

ECONOMIC STRIFE - That is Being used as a Weapon to
ELIMINATE a DEMOCRACY _ and _ REPLACE IT
With The Totalitarian Dictatorship of : A NAZI FASCIST RULE
Against : The Populace of the United States

Any Corporation or POLITICAL INFLUENCE
That has Supported and Assisted in :
The Achievement of : PURPOSELY and INTENTIONALLY DESTROYING
The DEMOCRATIC INFRASTRUCTURE and The ECONOMIC INFRASTRUCTURE
of The United States is an : Act of TREASON

ECONOMIC STRIFE : Has always Been
The Endorsement of : The Republican NAZI Fascist Party

If your Comments have have been Censored from
ABC News Comments

Contact the : Civil Liberties Union
Ask for a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT Against :
Brian Ross and The ABC News

Ask The Civil Liberties Union :
To Advertise For People Who Have Been Censored By
Brian Ross and ABC News
To Join in That Class Action Law Suit
http://www.aclu.org/contact/general : (Request Legal Assistance)

http://www.aclu.org/contact/general
Posted CBS News - Ruters (BBC) - MSNBC - FOX (Others)

[lastdance127]

Each Year US Auto Manufactures Ask for and
Have Been Getting FREE Money from The
Federal Government Every Year - For DECADES

Under The Nazi Fascist : Reagan-Bush Crime Regime

Chrysler was the First Automaker to Build New
US Auto Manufacturing Plants in :
Mexico - China - Germany - France - Egypt and Saudi Arabia

Chrysler was the First Automaker to close a
Auto Manufacturing Plant (Wisconsin)
20,000 Jobs lost in One Day) and to Send Those Jobs
outside of the United States

That Year Chrysler Management gave themselves a
$29 Million Dollar Pay Bonus _ Saying :
"They were such a good management team"

Criminal Corporate NAZI Fascist America
Will do as it has always Done __ MOCK and Ridicule
The American Worker and The American TAXPAYER
Then and Stick any Taxpayer Funds into their own Pockets

Any Corporation or Political Influence :
That has Supported and Assisted in : The Achievement of
PURPOSELY and INTENTIONALLY
Destroying The : ECONOMIC INFRASTRUCTURE of
The United States is an : Act of TREASON
TREASON is : A CRIMINAL ACT ! ! !

[lastdance127]

The Average Retired Union Autoworker is
Receiving between $612.00 and $1,400.00 a month
Health Insurance is PAID by : The Retiree

The Autoworker Union Members
Have NEVER Received the Pay Scale or
Retirement Benefits Equal to : THE FEDERAL EMPLOYEE

The Federal Employee, who has never learned how to Work
The Federal Employee, Who Has NEVER Had to Make Production
The Federal Employee, Who works at a LEISURELY PACE
Making Little or no Production ! !

What you see on TV as Auto Production
Is Staged by Management Employees

Figure it Out
One (1) Full Sized Car built every Sixty Three (63) Seconds
Three (3) Seconds between each car
One car Built every minute

Four Hundred and eighty (480) Full Sized Cars Built each
Eight (8) hour Shift __ Monday through Saturday
Overtime is Minatory - No Refusal

One (1) Twelve (12) minute Break in the morning (company assigned)
One (1) fourteen (14) minute break in The afternoon (company assigned)
Three (3) Times Tardy or Absent in a Eighteen (18) Month Period __ Your Fired ! !

The Federal Employee couldn''t - "Survive" in that Production Environment
If you complain about : PAY SCALE and RETIREMENT Benefits
Look to the - DEAD BEAT - Federal Employee ! !

[waspeus]

All these comments show how deep is the financial knowledge of the regular people. Close to zero. Economy and finance should be taught in schools starting with grade 1. That''s why we are in a situation where 90% of the Americans don''t really understand weather the 700 bilions "bailout" is a good thing or not, and a excellent article like this is derided and labeled as BS.

[jendreyfuss]

Obviously, the author of the story hasn''t received a letter from the county assessor''s office. You know the one where they give you the great news that yur taxes have been lowered because they have de-valued your home.

[erb0087]

Jimmy Carter should be very grateful to George W. Bush.

The waning months of the Bush adminsitration are making the Carter years, with those lines at the gas pump, seem like an economic Golden Age by comparison.

[slim1h2o]

The waning months of the Bush adminsitration are making the Carter years, with those lines at the gas pump, seem like an economic Golden Age by comparison.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by erb0087 at 05:50 AM : Oct 12, 2008


I think you''re a little confused. Those gas lines were in 73'' and 74''.

Jimmy Carters Presidency ran from 76'' till 1980.
So, he had nothing to do with the gas shortage, Unless a senator from Georgia has more power than I think he does or did.

[brianbwb-2009]

"You took a risk when you bought. This is Mr. Risk knocking at your door and saying "Hello!" Posted by txgrouch2007

Absolutely correct, but there is also another side, those companies whose worth is now devalued because of credit default swap playing, are now asking the taxpayer to cover losses of money they never actually had, and the idiots in DC are accommodating them.

When the bills are printed to cover this $850 billion dollar bailout, (more like 2 trillion before this is done) plus the $3 trillion cost of the Bush military misadventures, the value of the dollars in the hand of someone who was not playing Wall street will also fall, meaning less buying power for the work done to earn the money.

It doesn''t disappear in this case, it is being stolen by averaging from everyone who uses dollars.

[wl7bzh]

The Federal Employee couldn''''t - "Survive" in that Production Environment
If you complain about : PAY SCALE and RETIREMENT Benefits
Look to the - DEAD BEAT - Federal Employee ! !

Posted by lastdance127 at 01:33 AM : Oct 12, 2008


Dead Beat-Federal Employee-You mean not blue collar?

Self Righteous indignation-Jealousy with a halo.

Little suggestion? If you want your blue collar rug rats to not have to do manual labor suggest that instead of shoving the high school geek in the wall locker, ask the nerd if he would be willing to help your mentally deficient brat with his homework.

Yea, I know he wants to be just like his ol man. Hey baby doll, ball games on-bring me and tha boys anuther beer. EEEEH Ha.

[ybotheratall]

Joe Six Pack is a stupid term and needs to be eliminated, along with other moronic phrases like "throwing them under the bus". It makes the people who use the phrases sound like idiots.

To say that the money we lost was never even there is an insult to those who viewed the numbers in their retirement, bank and other accounts as real assets they could count on. The criminals (read: execs) who still, even after the bailout, reap the benefits of their malicious activities and won''t lose their spa visits, luxury homes or be affected by the REAL trillions of dollars that were lost. Shame on CBS for trivializing the losses so many have faced.

[tannerbird]

I think Robert Shiller is full of shi! if you bought stocks and spent 50.000 of your money and now it is worth 10.000 someone has your money!

[bobgee_1999]

"Surprise! It Was Never Really Money In The First Place"

Not really that revelatory an observation. If you want to split such hairs, money is just paper anyway; it represents value used to purchase goods. It doesn''t matter whether the value is represented by paper or abstract figures, the prinicple is the same.

[tannerbird]

The old farmer raises chickens one day a man comes and offers to buy all his chickens for 1.00 each the old farmer sells thinking he has done well. The next week a man comes buy wants to buy chickens says he will pay 5.00 for all the chickens he can find.Well the old farmer thinks about this calls the man that bought the chickens and offers him 3.00 for the chickens he sold for 1.00 thinking i will make 2.00 when the man comes back that offered 5.00 but guess what THE MAN THAT OFFERED 5.00 NEVER COMES BACK.The people on wall-street are crooks they make money on your money.

[tannerbird]

Txgrouch2007 i was saying if you had to sell now. If you can wait it out maby it will go back up have a nice day!

[hypnotoad72]

What does that "k" stand for in "401(k)", anyway? Kleptomania? :P

[pollroller1]

Now let me see if I can figure this out. I take one hundred dollars out of my pocket and buy some stocks, the next day the stock is only worth 50 dollars and I sell it. Did I not just lose 50 dollars?

[hypnotoad72]

What does that "k" stand for in "401(k)", anyway? Kleptomania? :P
Posted by hypnotoad72 at 08:33 AM : Oct 12, 2008

It stands for Paragraph k of Section 401 if the IRS code, which defined the 401(k) plans.

There are also 401(a), 401(b), etcetera plans.

Posted by txgrouch2007 at 08:38 AM : Oct 12, 2008
---

Thank you much for the edification. Succinct and to the point. (Granted, I was a tad jocular... typical to my persona, but I genuinely was ignorant. Again, thank you.)

[tdebat]

2/3 rds of congress is corrupt until that corruption is gone the American life style is decline until the there is no middle class.

[slim1h2o]

Yup, you sure did.

Try to pick a better stock next time.

What was your question?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by txgrouch2007 at 09:03 AM : Oct 12, 2008


Hey Grouch, everyone knows that the buying of stock is a LONG TERM investment.

So, anyone that buys stock, then turns around and sells the next day, to get rich scheme, is just foolish with their money.

[joenikk]

Dear CBS,

As far a shadow markets go, didn''t we cover that over thirty five years ago. We went to buy some stocks, they took our money, and refused to provide the stock certificates. When we complained, we were told it was our own fault.....

Remember it now. We knew were our money went, it just wasn''t "real" to us any more.

Let''s see the old films before opening bell.

[pollroller1]

I take one hundred dollars out of my pocket and buy some stocks, the next day the stock is only worth 50 dollars and I sell it. Did I not just lose 50 dollars?
Posted by pollroller1 at 08:59 AM : Oct 12, 2008

Yup, you sure did.

Try to pick a better stock next time.

What was your question?

Posted by txgrouch2007 at 09:03 AM : Oct 12, 2008
------------------------------------
OH, so that''s how this stock market works.
LOL

[slim1h2o]

Suit yourself. As for me, if the situation was reversed and I bought a stock for $50 one day and it was $100 the next day, I''''D SELL!!!




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by txgrouch2007 at 09:21 AM : Oct 12, 2008


LOL, Well I would too! I was just thinking of Redhat stock, when I published the 1st post. If I had bought that when it sold for $7, or $8 bucks, then it zoomed to $200.00 and $300.00 per share, then I would have been living high on the hog.

But that''s the exception to the rule, of long term stocks.

[soremeat]

How do you settle the "financial crisis" ? We could throw 100s of billions at the rich and hope the big companies pull through with $400,000 worth of massages at resorts. Or we could give every adult American a million dollars, require they pay off their home loan first, buy a new American made car, pay off one credit card, and eat out at least one night a week for a month. That would take about 200 million bucks, solve the housing problems of every one but those who thought they need to live in a house that cost over a million. Save GM, Ford, and Chrysler from failure. Put college kids to work as waiters. And leave a few bucks left over to put in the bank for middle class people. Problems solved, every one happy, except Washington politicians and super rich, stuff shirts, whose passed down family fortunes will lose value. Dang that was easy.

[oilfix]

Yea, tell that to your creditors and see what happens.
On another matter, why shouldn''t the fraudsters trash
the economy when they can rely on public monies and
cherrypick the failed institutions. How about
creating a real economy with real assets.

[soremeat]

How do you settle the "financial crisis" ? We could throw 100s of BILLIONS at Banks and the Rich and hope the big companies pull through with $400,000 massages at resorts.


Or we could give every adult American a million dollars, require they pay off their home loan first, buy a new American made car, pay off one credit card, and eat out at least one night a week for a month. That would take about ONLY 200MILLION bucks, solve the housing problems of every one but those who need to live in a house that cost over a million. Save GM, Ford, and Chrysler from failure. Put college kids to work as waiters. And leave a few bucks left over to put in the bank for middle class people.


Problems solved, every one happy, except Washington politicians and super rich, stuff shirts, whose passed down family fortunes will lose some value. Dang that was easy.

[geneonlbk]

Robert Shiller is a stupid ***. Of course we all have so far lost 50% of the value of our stocks. If I want to sell my stock I get real money, and I paid real money to purchase the stock. Shiller must be living under an ivy covered rock in New Haven. Real people make and lose real money every day on the stock exchanges.

[jn122736]

take one hundred dollars out of my pocket and buy some stocks, the next day the stock is only worth 50 dollars and I sell it. Did I not just lose 50 dollars?
Posted by pollroller1 at 08:59 AM : Oct 12, 2008

Yup, you sure did.

Try to pick a better stock next time.

What was your question?

Posted by txgrouch2007 at 09:03 AM : Oct 12, 2008
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey Grouch, everyone knows that the buying of stock is a LONG TERM investment.

So, anyone that buys stock, then turns around and sells the next day, to get rich scheme, is just foolish with their money.

Posted by slim1h2o at 09:19 AM : Oct 12, 2008
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



pollroller1 was accurately pointing out the fallacy of the article%u2019s premise.

txgrouch2007, and slim1h2o totally ignored that fact by their condescending responses.

Playing the stock market is exactly the same as playing poker.

You must use money from your cash reserves to buy either chips or stocks. The original chips/stocks you buy, actually, is the cash you invested.

If you lose your chips/stocks it is definitely lost cash/savings/reserves, no matter how long the game lasts.

I read all 7 pages of comments on this article, and only read 4 or 5 comments that pointed to the inaccuracy of the article.

[andarpul]

This article is misleading. As has been pointed out, real money has been lost (every investor has a cost basis, and when the market value dips below that, you''ve lost money you sell - there''s just a timing difference involved). Additionally, real money has been transferred in the sub-prime real estate loan transactions at the heart of the crisis. All that borrowed (real) money went somewhere (developers, real estate brokers, up-front closing costs, etc.).

[andarpul]

Additionally, one of the best aspects of the financial markets is the liquidity that they represent. To say that you haven''t lost real money when the markets decline is a "fallacy". You''re only 1 trade away from converting unrealized loss into a recognized loss measured by (wait for it) the amount of real cash you put in versus the amount of real cash you take out. This article should make it clear that much of market value is comprised of a transient, speculative value but that real money drives the market and that market''s liquidity makes the transference to real money lost only a matter of a couple of "clicks" away.

[slim1h2o]

I read all 7 pages of comments on this article, and only read 4 or 5 comments that pointed to the inaccuracy of the article.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by jn122736 at 10:11 AM : Oct 12, 2008

It''s not my job to point out anything.

If people can''t figure out what they''re reading, weather it''s true or not, that''s not my fault.

I was pointing out that investing in stocks is long term, usually.

And I was responding to another poster, so therefore, the articles content was not relevant.

[partagus7]

It went to the short sellers.
When someone sells a stock they dont own, then buys it at a later price before delivery of the stock to the new owner, and they get to pocket the difference, That is real money going into their pockets!

One day someone is going to have to explain to me why this should not be illeagal. At a minimum, the up-tick rule should never have been remove.

[god-is-true]

soremeat
1 Million dollars times 1000 is 1 billion, look it up on google. If you wanted to give 200 million Americans 1 dollar that would cost 200 million.

[jetdy01]

Yes, either Mr. Shiller gave poor and narrow answers which he shouldn''t, since he''s a Yale Professor or only excerpts from his interview were taken and poorly edited. In either case I find the article a bit irresponsible. Read by most, it would say you''ve lost imaginary money you never had and it is your own fault. Much of that presumes you''ve been watching your investments grow and the value has not dropped below your original purchase price. There are many other scenarios. To answer the article''s question that most people probably clicked on, hoping for a good answer: All That Money You Lost - Where Did It Go? Unrealized gains (something that has increased in value that you do not sell for the higher price) do go up in smoke. Drops below the purchase price are REAL money lost. And where did it go? To the guy who sold it to you. And that is the problem with our economy. Too much of it is based on inflated values and not REAL value. Remember the dot.com''s? And, the people making money on the stock market, the ones who know how to play it, are taking REAL money from real people. REAL money is made by adding value to society, this is always through work, like manufacturing something or providing a service or supporting one of those activities. Also natural resources are a source of money but usually you still need someone to dig it out of the ground or cut it down. (Continued in next post%u2026)

[jetdy01]

(Continued from previous post%u2026) Buying and selling stock does not add value to society. It is just like gambling. However, there are many forces amassed against the regular guy to take that gamble. Pre-tax dollars for 401K%u2019s for example. So lost purchased price money does go to everyone who takes REAL money out of the system and that money goes everywhere. If REAL money wasn''t being lost then REAL money couldn''t be made by rich people. Unfortunately for Americans, that money is more likely everyday, to leave the country either by a foreign investor or by an American investor who takes his money and invests it outside of the country. And, when it goes to really rich American people, a lot of it will get spent on ways that don%u2019t benefit our society or the economy as efficiently. I am not a financial expert. Though these days, that is probably an oxymoron. I think about this stuff as elections come up. I would appreciate if experts or regular people can tell me if this makes sense to them. I want to get my ideas straight and help others understand. Hopefully, the more people understand, the less the system can get out of control like it is.

[tuckerdognc]

So, when do we see all the television advertising for Charles Schwab, T Rowe price, et al CHANGE to "well, you really aren''t saving anything. We just take the real money and turn it into fake money." Funny. I haven''t seen any of the advertising change yet. Perhaps it should be outlawed like tobacco ads where; just "financial experts" selling misrepresentation and lies. "American''s don''t save enough!"Put it in the market" was the mantra. Now it''s "Oh, well, wasn''t real to begin with!?!?! Duped again.