Christian GI Ruled Conscientious Objector

Oregon Native Granted Discharge After Saying Religious Awakening Left Him Opposed To War

(AP)  A federal judge has ordered the Army to grant conscientious objector status and an honorable discharge to a soldier who says he experienced a religious awakening in Iraq.

The ruling supersedes the Army's decision last year to deny Pfc. Michael Barnes' request. Barnes had told the Army that his religious experience two years ago left him opposed to war in any form.

U.S. District Judge John Sedwick said military investigators failed to provide "a basis in fact" to support their contention that Barnes' religious objections to war were insincere.

Barnes, a 26-year-old native of Portland, Ore., said Monday in a statement released by his lawyer that he was thankful the court found his request was based on his "sincere belief as a Christian."

Barnes enlisted in the Army in March 2005 and arrived in Iraq in September 2006. Soldiers in his unit testified that he devoted much of his spare time to reading the Bible.

"I have been trying to justify being a soldier and finding a way to do so while still being a Christian, because that is what I wanted to do since I was a kid," Barnes wrote in his request for conscientious objector status in December 2006.

"But I can no longer justify spending my short time in this world participating in or supporting war. ... I must try to save souls, not help take them."

Barnes remained in Iraq through the duration of his unit's 15-month deployment. His brigade returned to Anchorage last November.

It was not immediately clear if the Army would appeal the ruling. An Army spokesman late Tuesday could not immediately comment.

[fsw3]

You mean you have found a real Christian, not some hate filled bigot who hides behind the Bible and Christ! There is hope yet,.

[liberalme]

You mean you have found a real Christian, not some hate filled bigot who hides behind the Bible and Christ! There is hope yet,.


Posted by FSW3

Gawd what a traitor--totally against Palins beliefs and the thumpers out there who are praying for "end times".

[jmurrieta11]

There are *** few "Christians" who pay the slightest attention to the words of Jesus. Most of them use their "faith" as a club to beat up on other people.

This has probably been true since mass murderer Constantine took over the original Jewish Messiah cult as an instrument of war and oppression.

[mytoosense]

I had a religious awakening in bed this morning; I found myself opposed to work, I suspect I''ll get over it by Lunch Break.

[airboatboy1]

A religious awakening! Good for him! I wonder if he would explain the christian crusades to me.

[carlylaine]

When a Xtian says he is concerned for souls more than he cares to kill I think it''s great. I couldn''t kill...unless I was forced to save myself...but never to go out and kill an enemy...unless.....

[TommyCraig]

"A religious awakening! Good for him! I wonder if he would explain the christian crusades to me".
Posted by airboatboy1 at 08:44 AM : Sep 24, 2008

The "Christian Crusades" had nothing to do with what Jesus Christ told his followers to do. No where in the bible does it tell believers to go out and baptise by the sword.
Don''t let those nations that in the name of Christ who attempted to convert the world via the sword or gun skew the message of Christ.
Being a believer, however, does not mean that you must not fight in wars. If attacked, one must defend the women and children.

[babooph]

"ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS" marching on to war!!Rome accepted them ,once they agreed to fight for the emperor.

[matter77]

People who bring up the Crusades know absolutely nothing about them, or about the rest of the world at that time. They just blurt out what they heard before thinking it is an attack against the Church. Don''t waste your time, they''ll just move on to somewhere else and repeat the same stupid thing. Or they''ll spew out something else about Evolution proving the Bible is a lie or some garbage about all clergy being imposters.

All they will do is waste your time, because their REAL motive is to prepare a defense for themselves.

[sly_64]

There is nothing Holy about War.

[sly_64]

Just about all religions are just chock full of hypocrits.

[sly_64]

If God is all powerful and all-knowing, he already knows what the end result of the war is.

[excoachken]

What Would Sarah Do?

[barbaraf4]

Why are they giving him a discharge? In this day and age and with the challenge of recruiting, it seems like they could find something else for him to do in a support position.

For example: My son was born in a military hospital. Among all the women (nurses, etc.) on that floor, there was one man. He worked in the nursery and his job was to take care of the babies. I asked a nurse what this was about - she explained he was a conscientious objector. This was during the Vietnam War.

[cbs_tom]

"Why are they giving him a discharge"?
Posted by barbaraf4 at 09:53 AM : Sep 24, 2008
I agree. A majority of enlisted positions never see combat. However, his welcome will not go over very well.

[barbaraf4]

"There may be poisitions for those opposed to killing, but NOT for those opposed to war. Big difference" Posted by Nancy_Naive
~~~~~~~~~~~
Personally, I have been against this war since the start; however, unless you have quit paying taxes, you ARE supporting this war just like all the rest of us. If we didn''t have the guts to impeach Bush and get out of Iraq, then we are passively allowing the insanity to continue.

[newsjunky5]

This is BS. He made it all up. God Himself told Bush to start this war, so there can be no Christian/religious argument against it. If he was a Humanist his position would have merit.

[cbs_tom]

"If you are in the military, then you are supporting this most unChristian war. There is no role for those who object to war in the military".
Posted by Nancy_Naive at 09:56 AM : Sep 24, 2008
There is no deliniation between US civilians and military in support for war. Your tax dollars support the effort.

[newsjunky5]

Does this only work for Christianity?

[sfcusarmy1]

"Why are they giving him a discharge"?
Posted by barbaraf4 at 09:53 AM : Sep 24, 2008
I agree. A majority of enlisted positions never see combat. However, his welcome will not go over very well.


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I am only speculating here but the reason for the discharge is probably because all soldiers, whether you are a cook, army band, medic, mechanic, ect.. you are trained to be a combat soldier first. No matter what your job is you can be called upon at anytime to go out on missions and fight if needed. My personal opinion is that if this individual doesnt want to be a soldier first then he needs to go. The Army is not here for people that dont want to do their job. Plain and simple.

[legacyabq]

BY GOD we have here a real Christian!

Good for this man, and bless his soul!
"Thou shalt not kill" is fairly resistant to broad interpretation.
When are the rest gonna come around??

[barbaraf4]

"Thou shalt not kill" is fairly resistant to broad interpretation." Posted by LegacyABQ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, the original commandment was "Thou shalt not MURDER". People killed in the Bible, without consequence, all the time. It''s sort of like that incest thing - it was legal in the Bible.

As a footnote, the Bible does not list one consequence for failing to obey the 10 Commandments.

[krotec54]

A religious awakening! What a Wussy. No guts to be a real soldier or as a person that will accomplish anything in life. He knew what the military was all about. To use religion as an excuse to cancel his contract that he made to his country is one of the lowest.

[kaiyo4u]

NO, "thou shalt not murder" is a revisionist interpretation promoted by right-wing "christian" preachers who are far more right-wing than they are christian

Posted by jaydee102 at 10:47 AM : Sep 24, 2008

The Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Murder" is not a revisionist interpretation. Translated from the original Hebrew this is the true interpretation.
It was the Catholic church who originally changed the translation from murder to kill oh so many years ago.
Can you see the benefits to changing it from murder to kill? It has great implications and leaves one powerless to the church.
To not murder, leaves one the ability to protect oneself, their family and their country.

[beader59]

WHAAAAT!!! This is ridiculous. Well I say then that all prisoners who say they found god should be released from death row and prison. Why oh why??

[sfcusarmy1]

jaydee102-So are you saying that this individual has way more character than a soldier that fully fulfilled their contract to their country?

[cbs_tom]

"NO, "thou shalt not murder" is a revisionist interpretation promoted by right-wing "christian" preachers who are far more right-wing than they are christian".
Posted by jaydee102 at 10:47 AM : Sep 24, 2008
Not to argue Christian points on a public forum, but in your logic, wouldn''t this make God a hipocrat since after he gave the commandments, he instructed the hebrews to destroy all of the cannonites?

[terrapin78]

Some Christian. Doesn''t believe in a Crusade!

[cbs_tom]

"Isn''''t it funny how noone seems to "find God" until they find their a$$ in a bind... then it seems like out of some miraculous event...God always manages to suddenly appear. Sounds to me like God is more like an ambulance chaser"!!!
Posted by shawnp20 at 11:30 AM : Sep 24, 2008

Shawn, for some, they must fall on their face before they realize that they need God.

[trumpetstuff]

Some Christian. Doesn`t believe in a Crusade!


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Posted by Terrapin78 at 11:15 AM : Sep 24, 2008


Refreshing, isn`t it?

[duhrer]

Interesting comments on the thou shalt not kill/murder interpretation. I was not aware that the bible is a legal document. Murder is a legal term. Kill is not a legal term, it is a conceptual term. So by the interpretation of the word murder as the correct translation, the christians would set up the bible as a document of legal validity, which it is not. Therefore I say, make up your minds. I''m pretty sure that on such an important topic as one of the ten commandments, the christian god would not have left up to secular interpretation a command that he handed down to Moses for the chosen people. Or is it rather that some christians would like to use the bible as a legal document. In that case an entire host of activities we consider illegal today would be considered "okay", including murder.
Also, I wish people would stop calling our presence in Iraq a "war". Congress has never declared war and the president cannot without them, so what we have is a "police action", not a war. If this were a war, we would throw all our resources into defeating the enemy which to date we clearly have not. The military is not a police force so why do we insist on using them that way?

[random_radar]

I have no issue with people being conscientious objectors. I have no issue with people fighting wars in service to their country.

I do have an issue with leaders waging unjustified wars of aggression. I do have an issue with people who support leaders in waging wars of aggression.

War should be the last resort of civilized countries, but it seems to be very popular in America as a first response to everything.

And if Americans could connect the dots, they would see that the financial cost of war has been a major factor in the economic crisis we are experiencing. War is bankrupting America--morally and economically.

[makemyday2da]

So Barnes says, "I have been trying to justify being a soldier and finding a way to do so while still being a Christian, because that is what I wanted to do since I was a kid," Barnes wrote in his request for conscientious objector status in December 2006. OK, if he''s known this since he was a kid but still enlisted AFTER knowing we''re clearly "AT WAR" in Iraq, then I find this a ''cop out''. You can''t have it both ways! There are MANY soldiers who are ''christian'' or believe in a ''higher power'' who haven''t taken an easy way out. To still receive an honorary discharge is a slap in the face to the THOUSANDS of returning troops who are mentally unfit for the military - or society. These troops are being discharged WITHOUT BENEFITS since they''ve been duped into believing they had a "preexisting personality disorder". I guarantee, there are so many stories like this and it''s disgusting!

[barbaram99]

I am a daughter of a Vet and this person wants his cake and eat iy too. That person raised his/her paw to serve and that what they should do. America has sep of church and state. I don''t believe in illegal wars however they can still serve this nation while in the military. I do hate war. Serve. I can''t as of my age and blindness. That person maybe a vet but I feel he/she has slapped this nation in her face. I think it is wrong to fight illegal wars. That should remain in the service. I Wnt to thank our vets who earnt thanks and more. I see it as that person wanted out due to church. Give him/her non combat duties. I take it like he/she is is too ashame to do his/her duties. An ungrateful person that person is. I can see it if they need to take care of their family if there is small kids needing a parent. Not over church. If they get out on the church issue than they best not ask us to call them vets. They did not earn it if they walk out. I knew a kid when I was a kid felt he was too good to face the flag,he is handicapped so he could not serve. Most use the loop hole to get out. is it right . I don''t think so. They use church,gender,etc to get out. They should think before they talk that oath. If they are given orders to leave the service for med reasons that one thing. America is not/has never been a christian nation.

[barbaraf4]

BarbaraM99, good to see you again!

[mjm117]

Wouldn''t a true Christian kill anything that stands in their way? That''s the way they''ve been doing it for hundreds and hundreds of years...

[TommyCraig]

"Murder, kill -- no distinction in usage beyond the courts".
Regards,
Posted by Nancy_Naive at 12:45 PM : Sep 24, 2008
Why not? Someone attacks me and in my defense I strike the person. He dies. As long as my intent is not to end his life, is this murder? On the other hand, he attacks and I knock him down and continue to strike well beyond what is necessary to disable him. Is that murder? I think that there is a clear distinction.

[TommyCraig]

"Wouldn''''t a true Christian kill anything that stands in their way? That''''s the way they''''ve been doing it for hundreds and hundreds of years"...
Posted by mjm117 at 03:02 PM : Sep 24, 2008
Understanding...that''s all it will take you.

[chrisbieber]

as a former warmonger militarist and chickenhawk(a Reagan Youth) I saw the error of my ways after first realizing the goal of the miitarization of USA and its globalization and our "leaders" surrendering our soveriengty and then having a nearfatal caraccident and coma...God in his mercy gave me the warmonger talktalk Christian another chance...I gave away my arsenal of guns(Dylan-song like "cant touch them anymore" but am NOT for any gun control)and ditched any hint of violence and militarism....Christ told ALL us to love one another... I hate what has happened to our country, our culture(RAMPANT DEATH and MILITARY idolization) and the Church, proudly waving American Flags and advocating bombing and death and Soviet-like invasions and occupations. That is not showing any love.

This soldier and those in the trial need to be prayed for. Hopefull God will use this to inform Americans that killing is not good for the pyche, country or soul.

[babooph]

The " my time is up- or I am gay -does not work- this C O thing did work -we can expect more !

[libluv2cnsor]

This soldier and those in the trial need to be prayed for. Hopefull God will use this to inform Americans that killing is not good for the pyche, country or soul.


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Posted by ChrisBieber at 05:45 PM : Sep 24, 2008
+ report abuse


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that is all good..now are you ready to ''turn the other cheek''..chris

btw..i think you grew up during the carter era..(dont lie now)

[libluv2cnsor]

The " my time is up- or I am gay -does not work- this C O thing did work -we can expect more !


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Posted by babooph at 06:27 PM : Sep 24, 2008
+ report abuse


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ever wondered why he ''enlisted'' in the first place??

[libluv2cnsor]

name ONE non-religious society..ONE non-religious nation THAT NEVER DEFENDED THEMSELVES FROM HARM..

[libluv2cnsor]

So the 10 Commandments say you shall not flock with crows?

Murder, kill -- no distinction in usage beyond the courts.

Regards,


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Posted by Nancy_Naive at 12:45 PM : Sep 24, 2008
+ report abuse


*********
For a non-believer..you sure quote the bible a lot..

"attack denotes fear, fear denotes belief"

are you a bitter closet christian?

[libluv2cnsor]

The " my time is up- or I am gay -does not work- this C O thing did work -we can expect more !


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Posted by babooph at 06:27 PM : Sep 24, 2008
+ report abuse

********************
a lot of liberal athiests in the military will have a religious awakening..religion wins again..(of course, that is if its not all BS..is it?)

[libluv2cnsor]

Cute saying, yours? Almost as good as "Strength through Unity. Unity through Faith"...

..I fear what they have done and would do again because of it.




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Posted by Nancy_Naive at 07:41 PM : Sep 24, 2008
+ report abuse


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yes it is..

hence YOU beleive because you fear. if you dont believe them THEN THERE IS NO REASON TO FEAR..

regards..............................

[libluv2cnsor]

Posted by Nancy_Naive at 07:41 PM : Sep 24, 2008
+ report abuse

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maybe you should understand the word ''faith''...not even on a religious level but on the simple act of ''faith'' may it be faith in the bunny rabbit or the tooth fairy BUT HAVING FAITH..

[differnet]

So, part of the Bush reasoning to go to war in Iraq was to spread Democracy. Are we know going to condemn Democracy as evil because it is used as an excuse for war. Every time you try to blame religion for man''s failings you are doing the same thing. Religion is an idea. You can''t blame an idea. People pervert ideas all the time to justify their desire for power.

[tootall10142]

When i hit nam in 67 we had a cob assigned to our platoon as a combat medic. WE got orders for long range recon the first time we made contact he changed his mind and picked all the fire power he could carry and survived his tour.There is a old saying among combat soldiers. : Hell is full os soldiers and thier leaders are right behind them.

[cncrndctzn]

Good for Michael Barnes. If more of these kids would make that same decision, these warmongering leaders wouldn''t be able to cause so much loss of life and limb all over the world, just to forward their own agendas.