RIVIERA BEACH, Fla., Sept. 18, 2008
Florida Judge Rules Against Fashion Police
Says Local Law Banning Saggy Pants Is Unconstitutional
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Julius Hart, 17, was charged last week after an officer said he spotted the teenager riding his bicycle with 4 inches to 5 inches of blue-and-black boxer shorts revealed.
Hart's public defender, Carol Bickerstaff, urged a judge Monday to strike down the sagging pants law, telling him: "Your honor, we now have the fashion police."
Circuit Judge Paul Moyle ruled that the law was unconstitutional based on "the limited facts" of the case. Technically, however, the charge hasn't been dropped yet: a new arraignment awaits Hart on Oct. 5.
Voters in Riviera Beach approved the law in March. A first offense for sagging pants carries a $150 fine or community service, and habitual offenders face the possibility of jail time.
Proposals to ban saggy pants are gaining ground in several places around the U.S., and have met with opposition from civil liberties advocates who say they will lead to racial profiling against young African-Americans.
The fashion is believed to have started in prisons, where inmates are not given belts with their baggy uniform pants to prevent hangings and beatings. By the late 1980s, the trend had made it to gangster rap videos, then went on to skateboarders in the suburbs and high school hallways.
Bickerstaff said she wants the city to drop the law - regardless of whether anyone dislikes low-riding pants.
"The first time I saw this particular fashion, I disliked it," she told the judge. "And then I realized I'm getting old."
The issue in Riviera Beach illustrates a larger trend among U.S. cities that have outlawed the fashion trend.
For example, in Flint, Mich., a city with a similar law banning droopy drawers, Police Chief David Dicks said his officers will continue to arrest violators in spite of the Florida ruling. Dicks called the style of dress "disorderly" in an interview with The Detroit Free Press.
And the hubbub isn't isolated to suburban areas either. Last year, in Dallas, Deputy Mayor Pro Tem Dwaine Caraway proposed that the city council send a message to young men in his city; Pull your pants up.
"This is not about the government trying to control how you dress," Mr. Caraway told The Dallas Morning News. "It’s to protect the rights of others who don’t want to see someone’s butt."
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Oh for h e l l sakes. Why don''t they just pull their pants up. If they had any idea how ridiculous they look, they would be embarrassed to be seen in public. What are they trying to do? Are they trying to see how long their little p r i c k s will hold the pants up?
Just move on to something more important.
Second: Just because you don''t or wouldn''t wear your pants this way doesn''t mean that we should waste our time and money making it illegal. Cops have much more important things to do, or at least they should.
Third: In spite of what you racist idiots think, this fashion is now mainstream. Who cares where it started. When I was in school it was fashionable to wear scrubs. It didn''t mean I was a nurse or doctor. If my son wears his pants on his hips it just means that he is young and is showing the fashion of the young, not trying to be a thug.
FYI: My mother tells stories of when she was in school in the 50s this same fashion trend was all the rage, although the underwear at the time was white briefs.
Okay, it''s unconstitutional. And if anybody tells such a nitwit to pull up their pants, they''ll get sued for harassment.
And Bob5ford, I will definitely attempt to look that up as you suggested - if inmate filth came up with that sartorial waste... well, judging by today''s pop music the "style" (rather the lack of) fits right in.
Breastfeeding isn''t a crime. Neither is peeing. But our society cultivated itself to keep those acts (and others) private for valid reasons - usually consideration for OTHERS in the same society.
Posted by Credibility2
Oh, but it''s freedom of speech!
See, they get to walk around like gutter trash - we''re allowed the freedom to, at least behind a computer screen, say what degenerate filth they are. Tell them to get dressed to their faces, well that''s harassment and a million dollar lawsuit...
Just move on to something more important.
Posted by lewiston14
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Children in schools need uniforms. I thought the late-1980s were bad enough with those bloody awful heavy metal t-shirts... FWIW, at least they wore clothing...
Adults can wear what they want, but what''s wrong with a bit of DIGNITY, SELF-RESPECT, RESPECT FOR OTHERS, et cetera?
:eyesroll:
End Sarcasm.
Or maybe boycott, but then we''d all be naked so that''s not the solution...
Pure BS
I remember seeing "White" people, from power linesmen, to gardeners, to truck drivers, and many other "regular joes" in my youth, whose pants sagged to the point that not only underwear, but their bare crack was showing, and I am sure many of the older posters also remember such, the sight has been joked about in movies that came out more than a decade or ago.
Why was it not a problem then, but is now?
Nothing wrong with it, but such concepts cannot be legislated. Dignity and self-respect are subjective, I personally know tribal chiefs in Papua Nugini who are very dignified, and have not only self respect, but the respect of others, and all they wear is a hollowed out gourd called in English a p*enis sheath, but in their language a koteka.
Besides, if such concepts were to be codified into law, groups like the kkk, aryan nations, and people like Pat Robertson, Pat Buchanan, David Duke, and others of such ilk would be in jail.
Peeing is indeed a public health hazard, so there is logic behind bans on urinating in public, but breast feeding is a perfectly healthy way of showing concern, respect, and love to the humans that need it, i.s., infants, and so I have always considered bans on public breast feeding to be an idiotic extremist variant of outdated pre-Victorian prudishness.
The "right to not see" a thing is easily exercised, simply avert your vision.
Stercus accidit.
Rebellion and non-conformist expression is designed to oppose the establishment. When someone gets offended, then the so-called offender just became gratified. They are dissentors, not offenders.
If we were all naked, then what would be our next criteria about appearance, that would be used for arresting someone?
Living with dissentors isn''t going to make us weaker, but stronger. We need to open our minds and know that without dissentors, we not only are easily trapped by our own righteousness, but are victims of it!!
Be happy that we can have a country that permits dissentors to express their views.
Imagine Communist Russia 1980, with everyone wearing the same thing, and no freedom or choices...then remember what happened to the dissentors. How short is your memory? If you want to arrest dissentors, go live in that type of place.
This is not a place for people who arrest their dissentors. This is not NAZI Germany, COMMUNIST Russia, or FACIST Italy.
Get off your high horses and open your minds! The judge in Florida was wise not to waste tax dollars fighting for the state''s right to oppress dissentor behavior. Doing so would have taken Florida one step closer to totalitarian government that many people fought to repel!!!
"Pure BS
I remember seeing "White" people, from power linesmen, to gardeners, . . . .
Why was it not a problem then, but is now?
Posted by brianbwb at 08:49 PM
Is EVERYTHING racial to you?
Get over it already.
Your krap points are getting older than slavery.
That is sad on two counts:
One, that kids would want to look like they are prepared to go to jail.
Two, that so many people have been in jail these days - far too many of them for minor drug crimes - that that quirk of attire could become "fashion".
I must have missed this right in the constitution. Must be in the fine print somewhere.
People can wear next to nothing, bikini''s and speedo''s, that pass for a swimming suit, and yet these folks are giving tickets for letting your underwear show?
What''s next, a limit on the amount of cleavage that can be shown?
What about women who wear men''s boxer shorts for pants? Thats showing all of the underwear!
Of course, in my opinion, letting your underwear show is adolescent and tasteless, but it''s surely not criminal.
Me thinks some folks simply have their shorts on too tight:)
Posted by URSODUMB
Did he get that habit in prison, too?
Posted by rushlimpdrug
So are sagging pants, this lie about it starting in prisons is total BS, as is your non rebuttal of the main point. judging from your inability to understand the point, it seems you, or maybe your father were guilty of it way back then, also.
Racist? It is what I, and those around me saw. I very rarely ever saw "Black" people, even the economically less well off, dress in such fashion, while it was a common sight amongst working-class "Whites".
We used to laugh, at them a popular joke was that such people gave new meaning to the word "cracker."
Posted by rushlimpdrug
So are sagging pants, this lie about it starting in prisons is total BS, as is your non rebuttal of the main point. judging from your inability to understand the point, it seems you, or maybe your father were guilty of it way back then, also.
Racist? It is what I, and those around me saw. I very rarely ever saw "Black" people, even the economically less well off, dress in such fashion, while it was a common sight amongst working-class "Whites".
We used to laugh, at them a popular joke was that such people gave new meaning to the word "cracker."
Posted by brianbwb
Hahahahaha!!!
Crack kills!!
No, it is not correct. It was a common sight to see working class "White" people whose rear cleavage was on ample display way back in my childhood during the 60s. These were not ex-cons, just normal people, whose blue jeans were not designed for a hips that were smaller than the bulging waistline.
Construction workers, plumbers, power line workers, truck drivers, just normal working-class people.
Don''t be a wise crack, you''re cracking me up ; )
What do you call a g*ay man''s vibrator? A crack pipe.
Posted by downsteamjim
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Not even close to the same thing. A woman wearing bikini bottoms around town would probably get looked at funny but she would be well within her rights to do so and all they are is basically underware. So, what''s the difference if a guy wears pants showing his underware? I mean seriously, have you seen some of the runners shorts? They might as well be speedo''s and NO MAN should ever wear Speedo''s. Ever.
If you want to be treated with respect, pull up your pants. If you don''t want to pull up your pants, go somewhere else.
I guess the owner of this store is exercising his freedom too.
+ report abuse
'''' .. i saw a tiny nudist kid once walking down a city sidewalk, a full grown man with a badge and a gun told her to get dressed or he''''d have to do things to her, and she whispered something to him and they lived happily ever after, for about twenty minutes till she got bored with him .. ''''
---ok, stop talking about porn.
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Posted by stick1771 at 06:53 PM : Sep 18, 2008
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Grow Up Morons. It''''s not nudity to show underwear. If a hottie jumps out of the car in a bikini at am/pm for a soda on the way to the pool bet your old self doesn''''t say any thing about that do you. We are talking about America and her freadoms. You know, the thing our men and women are over seas fighting for. I bet more than half of those boys over there wore thier pants that way before they left to boot camp. Now you clowns want to make it a crime. Next it will be hair color.
---it''s "freEdom" -not "freAdom". anyway, they''re not fighting for our freedoms over there. They''re fighting for something else; terrorists can take away lives but seriously, what can they do to abolish our freedom? they can''t completely take over our country - especially when they are located in terrorist cells throughout various countries...
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by silverado2nv
September 21, 2008 7:24 AM PDT
- RAG HEADED RAPPERS AND WANNA BE GANGSTERS THAT CANT KEEP THIER PANTS UP AND THIER SHIRT TAIL TUCKED IN.THIS IS BLACK PEOPLE BEING ******* AND WHITE PEOPLE EXHIBITING THIER ABILITY TO FULL FILL THIER AMBITION TO BE WHITE TRASH AND DEFIANT LOSERS.
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See all 50 CommentsPosted by tootall10142 at 10:28 AM : Sep 20, 2008
You my friend are a ***, get over it and go change your depends, ohh and you might want to hit the CAPS LOCK