NEW YORK, Sept. 17, 2008

Wall Street Continues Nosedive

Market Down Almost 450 Points After Fed Rescues AIG With $85B Takeover

  • Video Feds Save AIG

    The Federal Reserve saved AIG, the insurance co. that backed failed credit swap instruments. Jeff Glor reports and Harry Smith talks to business journalist Liz Claman about the effects for Americans.

  • Video U.S. Government To Bail Out AIG

    With the stock market in shambles, the U.S. government has announced they will bail out insurance company AIG by giving them an $85 billion dollar loan. Beverly Goodman, Sr. Editor of Smart Money Magazine, weighs in.

    • Trader Michael Quinn studies his handheld device while working the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, Wednesday Sept. 17, 2008. Wall Street stumbled again Wednesday, with anxieties about the financial system still running high after the government bailed out insurer American International Group Inc. Photo

      Trader Michael Quinn studies his handheld device while working the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, Wednesday Sept. 17, 2008. Wall Street stumbled again Wednesday, with anxieties about the financial system still running high after the government bailed out insurer American International Group Inc.  (AP)

    • Trader Christopher Crotty rubs his eyes as he works on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, Wednesday Sept. 17, 2008. Photo

      Trader Christopher Crotty rubs his eyes as he works on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, Wednesday Sept. 17, 2008.  (AP Photo/Richard Drew)

    • In a statement late Tuesday, AIG's board of directors said the loan will protect all AIG policy holders, address concerns of rating agencies and buy the company time to sell off assets. Photo

      In a statement late Tuesday, AIG's board of directors said the loan will protect all AIG policy holders, address concerns of rating agencies and buy the company time to sell off assets.  (AP Photo/Mark Lennihan)

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  • Interactive Eye On The Economy

    In-depth features on U.S. markets, taxes, employment and the Federal Reserve.

  • Timeline Languishing Lehman

    Key events at Lehman Brothers since the beginning of the credit crisis.

Should the feds have bailed out AIG?
 Yes
 No
 Don't know

(CBS/AP)  Wall Street plunged again Wednesday as anxieties about the financial system ran high after the government's bailout of insurer American International Group Inc. and left investors with little confidence in many banking stocks. The Dow Jones industrial average lost about 450 points, giving it a shortfall of more than 800 so far this week.

As investors fled stocks, they sought the safety of hard assets and government debt, sending gold, oil and short-term Treasurys soaring.

The market was more unnerved than comforted by news that the Federal Reserve is giving a two-year, $85 billion loan to AIG in exchange for a nearly 80 percent stake in the company, which lost billions in the risky business of insuring against bond defaults. Wall Street had feared that the conglomerate, which has extensive ties to various financial services industries around the world, would follow the investment bank Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. into bankruptcy. However, the ramifications of the world's largest insurer going under likely would have far surpassed the demise of Lehman.

"It's like banging on a big gong," Bernard McSherry of Cuttone & Company told CBS News business correspondent Anthony Mason. "It reverberates for a while. And we're dealing with that reverberation right now. And we're getting these waves for very uncomfortable feelings in our stomach."

"People are scared to death," said Bill Stone, chief investment strategist for PNC Wealth Management. "Who would have imagined that AIG would have gotten into this position?"

He said the anxiety gripping the markets reflects investors' concerns that AIG wasn't able to find a lifeline in the private sector and that Wall Street is now fretting about what other institutions could falter. Over the past year, companies including Lehman and AIG have sought to reassure investors that they weren't in trouble, but as market conditions have worsened the market appears distrustful of any assurances.

"No one's going to be believing anybody now because AIG said they were OK along with everybody else," Stone said.

The two independent Wall Street investment banks left standing - Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley - remain under scrutiny, as does Washington Mutual Inc., the country's largest thrift bank. Morgan Stanley revealed better-than-expected quarterly results late Tuesday and insisted that it is surviving the credit crisis that has ravaged many of its peers.

Lehman filed for bankruptcy protection on Monday, and by late Tuesday had sold its North American investment banking and trading operations to Barclays, Britain's third-largest bank, for the bargain price of $250 million. Over the weekend, Merrill Lynch & Co., the world's largest brokerage, sold itself to Bank of America Corp. in a quickly arranged plan to sidestep further slides in its stock.

"It's still uncertain ground we're treading. We just have to move on a daily basis," said Jack A. Ablin, chief investment officer at Harris Private Bank.

The Dow fell 449.36, or 4.06 percent, to 10,609.66, finishing not far off its lows of the session. On Monday, the Dow lost 504 points, the largest tumble since its drop following the September 2001 terror attacks. On Tuesday, it rose 141 points, after the Fed decided to leave interest rates unchanged.

The index is down more than 7 percent on the week, its worst showing since July 2002. The blue chips have fallen more than 25 percent since reaching a record close of 14,164.53 on Oct. 9 last year.

Broader stock indicators also fell sharply Wednesday. The Standard & Poor's 500 index dropped 57.21, or 4.71 percent, to 1,156.39, while the Nasdaq composite index fell 109.05, or 4.94 percent, to 2,098.85.

About 200 stocks rose on the New York Stock Exchange, while nearly 3,000 fell.

The stock market is likely to see heavy back-and-forth movement as traders continue to assess the flood of news that has poured in over the past several days.

Short-term Treasurys moved sharply higher as investors sought a safe place for at least the near future. There was heavy buying in T-bills, which range from three months to a year in maturities. But the yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note, which moves opposite its price, slipped to 3.42 percent from 3.43 percent late Tuesday as longer-term debt fell.

Tom di Galoma, head of Treasurys trading at Jefferies & Co., characterized the mood of the bond market as "sheer panic." With turmoil in markets such as credit default swaps, which are essentially insurance policies against bond defaults, investors sought out alternative short-duration assets, he said.

The dollar was lower against other major currencies.

Quote

People are scared to death. Who would have imagined that AIG would have gotten into this position?

Bill Stone, chief investment strategist for PNC Wealth Management
Commodities prices that have slumped in recent weeks amid growing signs of economic weakness, soared because of the appeal of hard assets.

Gold for December delivery shot up as much as $90.40, or 11.6 percent, to $870.90 an ounce in after-hours trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange after jumping $70 to settle at $850.50 in the regular session; that was its largest ever one-day gain in dollar terms.

Crude oil that had also skidded lower since midsummer $6.01 to settle at $97.16 a barrel on the Nymex after the government reported a drop in domestic crude and gas inventories. Oil dropped by about $10 a barrel on Monday and Tuesday.

The government took other measures Tuesday to help alleviate the turmoil in the markets. The Treasury said it will start selling bonds for the Fed to aid it with its lending efforts, while the Securities and Exchange Commission said it will strictly prohibit naked short-selling starting Thursday.

Short-selling occurs when traders borrow shares of a stock they expect will fall and sell them. If the stock does indeed fall, the traders buy the cheaper shares to cover the borrowed ones and profit from the difference. Naked short-selling occurs when sellers don't actually borrow the shares before selling them; it's a practice some say is partially responsible for the huge drop in the shares of investment banks like Lehman, Merrill Lynch and Bear Stearns Cos., which JPMorgan Chase & Co. bought earlier this year.

Among financial names getting hit, Goldman Sachs fell $18.51, or 14 percent, to $114.50 and Morgan Stanley fell $6.95, or 24 percent, to $21.75. AIG fell $1.70, or 45 percent, to $2.05.

Many of the investment banks are now being forced to pair up with regular banks, whose solid deposit base can provide ballast in a turbulent market.

"People are afraid of the unknown and they don't know what's on the books of these companies," said Joe Saluzzi, co-head of equity trading at Themis Trading. "The first reaction in a situation like this is to sell."

Saluzzi noted that surging gold prices and other measures of investors jitters indicate that anxiety is building.

Indeed, the Chicago Board Options Exchange's volatility index, known as the VIX, and often referred to as the "fear index," jumped nearly 15 percent to its highest close since 2002. A widely followed measure of financial stocks fell to its lowest close since mid-July.

Saluzzi is somewhat optimistic that the nervousness could be nearing a crescendo, which could squeeze out more investors and then clear the way for a snapback rally.

But the woes of the financial sector could also exacerbate problems facing other parts of the economy, given that individuals and businesses rely on the nation's money centers.

The Commerce Department reported Wednesday that home construction fell by 6.2 percent in August to 895,000 units, the slowest pace since January 1991. Slumping demand for houses, sinking home prices and mortgage defaults have been the catalysts behind Wall Street's turmoil - and the risky mortgage-backed assets held by the nation's banks are not apt to regain in value until the housing market turns around.

NYSE consolidated volume came to a very heavy 9.23 billion, little changed from Tuesday's 9.25 billion.

Overseas, Japan's Nikkei stock average rose 1.2 percent after AIG's rescue, but Hong Kong's Hang Seng index lost 3.6 percent. Britain's FTSE 100 fell 2.25 percent, Germany's DAX index fell 1.75 percent, and France's CAC-40 fell 2.14 percent.

© MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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Add a Comment See all 428 Comments
by u-r-right September 17, 2008 7:50 AM PDT
AIG is a business just like any other. If they made bad decisions they should face the consequences. I wonder if their executives are still grabbing their cash at the end of each pay period?

Our entire country is in bad financial shape and yet, we are bailing out a select few finincial institutions.
Reply to this comment
by jediservant September 17, 2008 8:01 AM PDT
I think we need to stop filing 1040''s and let Washington pay with their money from now own!
Reply to this comment
by smurfcrusher September 17, 2008 8:07 AM PDT
I guess this means McCain shouldn''t have introduced the bill, later passed, to deregulate the industry!

Those financial controls he swept aside, allowing today''s "greed", would have prevented these BILLIONS of YOUR TAX DOLLARS from being diverted to fix this mess.

One would think McCain would have LEARNED fom Reagans Savings and Loan mess! But then, he never was a quick study... Bottom .6% of his class at Annapolis.

Three Cheers for "BOTTOM GUN!"
Reply to this comment
by kef805 September 17, 2008 8:12 AM PDT
I don''t know what planet Jeff Glor is on! On the TV, he stated that our gas tanks should be happy and that hurricane Ike did not raise gas prices!!! In Georgia, we have been paying up to $4.50 per gallon since BEFORE the hurricane hit in anticipation of refineries being shut down! Stations selling near $4.00 run out of gas. Truckers can not get loads to deliver! My tank nor my pocketbook is happy AT ALL!
Reply to this comment
by oleander8 September 17, 2008 8:21 AM PDT
No one company should be allowed to become so big that their failure threatens the entire US economy.
Reply to this comment
by omega40 September 17, 2008 8:21 AM PDT
So how''s Bush''s "ownership society" treating you all? I bet you never thought you would own Freddie and Fannie or an 85% stake in AIG, Huh?
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:26 AM PDT
WHAT?!?!? Just yesterday we were told that there would be NO bailout!!!

Now - there goes ANOTHER nearly $100 BILLION of OUR MONEY out of OUR POCKETS to pay for corporate GREED AND RECKLESSNESS!!!!!!!!

I agree with jediservant - let''s stop paying our income tax and let the friggin'' government bail ITSELF out.

Oh, BTW - my paycheck was $33 last week. WHO''S GONNA BAIL ME OUT????????????????????????????
Reply to this comment
by avembe September 17, 2008 8:29 AM PDT
i thought the Reps wanted less government...
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:30 AM PDT
The "magic of the marketplace" the Righties love so much is pretty much just sleight of hand, eh?
Posted by jmurrieta11 at 08:02 AM : Sep 17, 2008

It is when you let BABY BOOMERS run it.

The whole time I was growing up, I remember hearing the grownups dreading the day when the spoiled brat Boomers became the leaders of our nation.

THAT DAY ARRIVED sixteen years ago, with "I didn''t inhale." Before that, it would have been unthinkable for anyone to say that and go on to WIN THE ELECTION to be President.

But now our President is a former drug addict. And the mayor of Washington DC was elected BACK into office AFTER he was exposed as an active crack user.

SIXTEEN YEARS IS ENOUGH. NO MORE BABY BOOMERS in our government.
Reply to this comment
by jtdev1 September 17, 2008 8:33 AM PDT
Our entire country is in bad financial shape and yet, we are bailing out a select few finincial institutions.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by u-r-right



Yup! Bailing out the buddies...

I bet if someone did some research, they would find out that only the people who donated big to Bush & Co were receiving these bailouts.

Capitalism at it''s finest. They wanted de-regulation and small government, but who do they come crying to when their ponzi scheme blows up?

I remember only a few years ago they were all claiming HUGE profit increases, now everything is falling apart... I knew then that it was all fake.

Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:33 AM PDT
LOL!! i think your paycheck being 33 dollars is your problem...not Bush. LOL!!
Posted by jamesm12341 at 08:28 AM : Sep 17, 2008

I think the problems of ALL the recipients of government bailouts were "their problem."

But they got their big bucks and kept their big bonuses. WHERE''S MY SHARE OF THE ACTION??????????????

WHO''S GONNA BAIL ME OUT?????????

Hey, Bush! I voted for you BOTH TIMES. What are you gonna do for ME????????????
Reply to this comment
by mytoosense September 17, 2008 8:33 AM PDT
I would like someone to explain how the mess started and how it affected companies like AIG. All I hear is Government take-overs, not detailed explainations as to how they failed.
Posted by TomMarAlem19

AIG Insured the Sub-Prime Mortgage Loans made by Fanny, Freddie, and the Rest.

Same Torpedo, different ship.


Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:34 AM PDT
i thought the Reps wanted less government...
Posted by Avembe at 08:29 AM : Sep 17, 2008

What - you BELIEVED what a bunch of BABY BOOMERS told you? LOL!


Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:37 AM PDT
AIG Insured the Sub-Prime Mortgage Loans made by Fanny, Freddie, and the Rest.
Posted by mytoosense at 08:33 AM : Sep 17, 2008

It''s called the domino effect.

The first domino was someone who said "I didn''t inhale."

He didn''t inhale - now our economy is collapsing because of the recklessly irresponsible government he introduced -

AND THAT BUSH PERPETUATED.

BOTH are to blame for this mess. Clinton for causing it - and Bush for failing to stop it.

Reply to this comment
by omega40 September 17, 2008 8:38 AM PDT
Hey, Bush! I voted for you BOTH TIMES. What are you gonna do for ME????????????

Posted by txgrouch2006

LOL! Wow, I sincerely believe you''re the first person I have heard admit this.
Reply to this comment
by jtdev1 September 17, 2008 8:40 AM PDT
Has anyone been keeping tabs on just how much bailing out our government has done since 01/01/2008?

How much money was pumped into the economy, made available for borrowing (cheap)?

Now the Freddie/Fanny bailout has no price tag (Priceless)...

All said and done I guess it will be over 1 Trillion of our tax payer dollars going to bail the elite out. Not to mention the inflation this has caused.

Our dollar is worthless now...
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:42 AM PDT
OK, everyone agrees that the Baby Boom started in 1946.

Statistically, it ended around 1964 - EIGHTEEN YEARS.

But as a cultural phenomenon, I believe it ended much sooner than that.

But be that as it may - 1946 plus SIXTEEN YEARS is 1962. Let''s call that CLOSE ENOUGH.

CAN WE PLEEEEEEASE SAY THAT THE BOOMERS HAVE HAD THEIR DAY IN POWER - now it''s time to turn the reigns over to someone else. ANYONE else. For the love of God, NO MORE BABY BOOMERS in government!!!!

SIXTEEN YEARS IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!! WE NEED A CHANGE.
Reply to this comment
by infe5 September 17, 2008 8:42 AM PDT
So now, every other financial company will say to themselves, "Hey as long as we act grossley irresponsible and become ''too big to fail'', the government will always bail us out!" Essentially, the government is gauranteeing NO RISK for companies that want to make very risky and bad decisions. The only condition is that companies must act SO irresponsible, that they become big enough to hurt others if they fail. This is rediculous. We should have let them fail. Sure we may have to go through a deep recession afterwards, but by bailing these companies out, we are only prolonging the inevitable. Climbing the ladder for a higher fall.
Reply to this comment
by jab232 September 17, 2008 8:43 AM PDT
We do remember, don''t we, that McCain adviser Phil Gramm is one of the three sponsors of the act that took off the regulations that had been in place since the depression and set the field for these huge bailouts. And McCain voted for the act. And then after he retired, Gramm, who had, surprise, surprise, become a bank lobbyist, short circuited legislation to put some reasonable regulation back in. When President McCain appoints his commission (another commission!), that group will have to investigate Phil Gramm and John McCain. Republicans have held the presidency for eight years, the complete congress for six of those eight years, and veto control for the other two. They and their lobbyist friends are the ones who took you! Hold them accountable.
Reply to this comment
by jtdev1 September 17, 2008 8:44 AM PDT
BOTH are to blame for this mess. Clinton for causing it - and Bush for failing to stop it.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by txgrouch2006




It all started with "Trickle Down Economics" (voodoo economics)

thats when the elite started thinking they were worth more than they really are.... Befor then, the pay difference was only 100 to 1, now it''s 10000 to 1...







Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:45 AM PDT
Our dollar is worthless now...
Posted by jtdev1 at 08:40 AM : Sep 17, 2008

And just days ago, someone flamed me for saying hyperinflation was coming back.

Bush is the Jimmy Carter of the Republican presidents.

But look at the bright side - when we finally have to pay back out debt with worthless hyperinflated dollars in the future, it will be like paying DIMES ON THE DOLLAR of the debt we''re running up today.

But then, our PAY might be only dimes on the dollar of what we''re making today.

Which means my paycheck will be around $3 per week.

Hey, I used to make a six-figure income in the high-tech industry, where I had a career that lasted 20 years.

WHO''S GOING TO BAIL ME OUT???????????

Reply to this comment
by jmurrieta11 September 17, 2008 8:46 AM PDT
"WallStreetFolly.com had an evocative take on the fiasco. On Tuesday morning, I noticed this post: "The word to shell-shocked Lehman employees in Europe: ''It''s over''... ''move on.''"

As the site noted: "A sad ending: They may not be getting their end-of-the-month paychecks, and they could even be liable for expenses on their corporate credit cards. ...""


So the Bushit fatcats get their multi-million dollars golden parachutes, while the peasantry has to pay off their corporate credit cards for expenses incurred on behalf of the company.

This is "compassionate conservatism" folks!

Compassionate towards the poor billionaires of the Bushit Rangers, conservative towards everyone else.

And John McCain is more of the same. He never met a fatcat he didn''t like.


Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:47 AM PDT
We do remember, don''''t we, that McCain adviser Phil Gramm is one of the three sponsors of the act that took off the regulations that had been in place since the depression and set the field for these huge bailouts.
Posted by JAB232 at 08:43 AM : Sep 17, 2008

Yes, I do. So why didn''t PRESIDENT CLINTON veto it, because it happened ON CLINTON''S WATCH??????

Reply to this comment
by wes_elliott September 17, 2008 8:48 AM PDT
OK, so we bailed out AIG. The early show related that the CEO is to be replaced. What does his golden parachute cost? Would jail time be more appropriate? There should be a violation of a feduciary relationship.
Reply to this comment
by jmurrieta11 September 17, 2008 8:48 AM PDT
"OBAMA HAS MADE IT OFFICIAL:
He now takes his lifeline along with him on campaign trail - - the teleprompter
ROFL!!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by fenner



But "Squeaky" McClone can''t even read a teleprompter in his stumbling way without Joe Lie-berman behind him to remind him of the facts.

That''s not a problem for "Screech Owl" Palin tho''! She can rant on in her glass-etching scream for hours without saying a single thing! Of course she didn''t write her own speech--but she sure can screech it!
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:49 AM PDT
It all started with "Trickle Down Economics" (voodoo economics)
Posted by jtdev1 at 08:44 AM : Sep 17, 2008

Sorry, but the Reagan years were the START of my 20 year career in high-tech that eventually paid me a six-figure annual income.

You can''t blame Reagan by me.
Reply to this comment
by gop_will_win September 17, 2008 8:49 AM PDT
Yes, I do. So why didn''''t PRESIDENT CLINTON veto it, because it happened ON CLINTON''''S WATCH??????




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by txgrouch2006
===============================
Actually this had to do with the changes the SEC did to the leverage requirements in 2004 so it was entirely Clintons fault.
Reply to this comment
by ofbyfor2 September 17, 2008 8:50 AM PDT
If these companies want bailouts paid for by the American taxpayers, then they need to accept regulation and oversight as well. Period.
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:51 AM PDT
There should be a violation of a feduciary relationship.
Posted by wes_elliott at 08:48 AM : Sep 17, 2008

Yes. Same for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which had a FEDERAL GUARANTEE against loss.

BTW, both Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac were created by the federal government. They were called "private corporations" so their activity wouldn''t appear in the federal budget. BUT THEY WERE NEVER REALLY PRIVATE AT ALL.
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:52 AM PDT
Actually this had to do with the changes the SEC did to the leverage requirements in 2004 so it was entirely Clintons fault.
Posted by gop_will_win at 08:49 AM : Sep 17, 2008

Then respond to the poster who blamed it on the Clinton-era deregulation of the financial industry.

And Bush was president in 2004.

Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:54 AM PDT
Hey, President Bush. I voted for you BOTH TIMES.

When are you going to BAIL ME OUT?????
Reply to this comment
by omega40 September 17, 2008 8:55 AM PDT
John McCain

"the fundamentals of the economy are strong.%u201D

"Errr..I mean the workers of the economy are strong"

"Uhhm, I mean the workers that still have a job are strong"
Reply to this comment
by wes_elliott September 17, 2008 8:57 AM PDT
With limited securities knowledge having license is foth 6 & 63. I would have gone to jail if I operated like AIG.
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:57 AM PDT
let the free market work
Posted by wjksea at 08:53 AM : Sep 17, 2008

If it was REALLY a "free market," there would be NO FEDERAL GUARANTEES for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and there would be NO BAILOUTS today.

The reckless Clinton "free market" was really NO FREE MARKET AT ALL. Just taking away the rules for the fat cats, but LET THEM KEEP REACHING INTO THE PUBLIC TREASURY to bail themselves out when they get burned.
Reply to this comment
by omega40 September 17, 2008 8:58 AM PDT
Posted by fenner a

LOL! Carly Fiarina isn''t Obama''s financial adviser though, she is John McCain''s..
Reply to this comment
by ofbyfor2 September 17, 2008 8:59 AM PDT
Actually this had to do with the changes the SEC did to the leverage requirements in 2004 so it was entirely Clintons fault.
Posted by gop_will_win at 08:49 AM : Sep 17, 2008

Then respond to the poster who blamed it on the Clinton-era deregulation of the financial industry.

And Bush was president in 2004.

Posted by txgrouch2006 at 08:52 AM : Sep 17, 2008

gop_will_wi is a troll. Best to ignore him.
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 8:59 AM PDT
I will reiterate an other poster, it started even as far back a Nixon.
Posted by curse914 at 08:54 AM : Sep 17, 2008

It went back to FDR for starting the Social Security entitlement monster that has grown more heads and become BIGGER THAN THE MILITARY.

Then someone will say it went back to Hoover or Coolidge or whoever.

Eventually it will go back to George Washington or Thomas Jefferson for founding a system that has run amuck.

LET''S BLAME KING GEORGE!!!
Reply to this comment
by usclimey September 17, 2008 9:00 AM PDT
Yes, I do. So why didn''''t PRESIDENT CLINTON veto it, because it happened ON CLINTON''''S WATCH??????

Posted by txgrouch2006

What would have been the point? - the GOPigs had enough votes to override.
Reply to this comment
by dinkydog1 September 17, 2008 9:03 AM PDT
We do remember, don''''''''t we, that McCain adviser Phil Gramm is one of the three sponsors of the act that took off the regulations that had been in place since the depression and set the field for these huge bailouts.
Posted by JAB232 at 08:43 AM : Sep 17, 2008

Yes, I do. So why didn''''t PRESIDENT CLINTON veto it, because it happened ON CLINTON''''S WATCH??????



Posted by txgrouch2006 at 08:47 AM : Sep 17, 2008

....................

Jeeez.... This takes the cake, it''s Clintons fault because he didn''t save Republicans from them selves!.


Reply to this comment
by gop_will_win September 17, 2008 9:04 AM PDT
gop_will_wi is a troll. Best to ignore him.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by ofbyfor2
=======================
So post proof that the SEC didnt change leverage requirements or the leverage requirements didnt cause the fall of Lehman or AIG.
Reply to this comment
by omega40 September 17, 2008 9:04 AM PDT
It went back to FDR for starting the Social Security entitlement monster that has grown more heads and become BIGGER THAN THE MILITARY.

Then someone will say it went back to Hoover or Coolidge or whoever.

Eventually it will go back to George Washington or Thomas Jefferson for founding a system that has run amuck.

LET''''S BLAME KING GEORGE!!!

Posted by txgrouch2006

When Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard, deficits no longer mattered. This nation''s huge debt is exactly why we are where we are.
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 9:05 AM PDT
What would have been the point? - the GOPigs had enough votes to override.
Posted by usclimey at 09:00 AM : Sep 17, 2008

Then wouldn''t Clinton be SMELLING LIKE A ROSE today if he can remind us all of the big speech he made against it and that he vetoed it, but the GOP overrode his veto so THE BLAME WOULD REST SQUARELY ON THEM???

Instead, it was just MORE RECKLESSNESS that was in character of the Clinton years.
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 9:06 AM PDT
But for instance when you lower taxes on Capital Gains, you are giving the Investor Class an advantage over the average laborer.
Posted by curse914 at 09:03 AM : Sep 17, 2008

Thanks for reminding me. That was ANOTHER thing Clinton did.


Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 9:07 AM PDT
it''''s Clintons fault because he didn''''t save Republicans from them selves!.
Posted by dinkydog1 at 09:03 AM : Sep 17, 2008

It happened on Clinton''s watch. He takes the blame, because he didn''t veto it.
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 9:09 AM PDT
When Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard, deficits no longer mattered. This nation''''s huge debt is exactly why we are where we are.
Posted by omega40 at 09:04 AM : Sep 17, 2008

FDR ran the biggest deficits in history (adjusted for inflation). After that, we became the world''s creditor nation, and we ran a surplus.

Do you actually HAVE a point...?
Reply to this comment
by vsg4 September 17, 2008 9:09 AM PDT
Now that Fed owns 80% of AIG what will happen to 30 million share options it''s CEO got as bonus during these years. Will he give them back for his failure ?
Reply to this comment
by txlakeside September 17, 2008 9:09 AM PDT
The next time any greedy repub tells you less gov is good gov and we need free markets just remind them of 2008 and the corporate welfare form the greed of 2000-2008. Remember to tell them that AIG was called to the carpet in 2005 for juggling the books but the good ole boy repubs said less gov is good gov! They dont nedd oversite, just free open markets!

Then slap the greedy repub up side their head!
Reply to this comment
by dinkydog1 September 17, 2008 9:10 AM PDT
it''''''''s Clintons fault because he didn''''''''t save Republicans from them selves!.
Posted by dinkydog1 at 09:03 AM : Sep 17, 2008

It happened on Clinton''''s watch. He takes the blame, because he didn''''t veto it.


Posted by txgrouch2006 at 09:07 AM : Sep 17, 2008

....................

Your absoutly right, Clinton should have relized all republicans were idiots and vetoed the bill.
Reply to this comment
by simon9999-2009 September 17, 2008 9:13 AM PDT
Don''t worry - Sarah Mooseburger will ride down Wall Street on her snowmobile and take care of those crooks. She''ll be there right after she takes out Putin then finds Bin Laden in his cave. John McBush says everything''s fine, and we know he wouldn''t lie about anything.
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2006 September 17, 2008 9:14 AM PDT
you are misguided in thinking Clinton was the start, he was more inactive with regard to what was happening.
Posted by curse914 at 09:08 AM : Sep 17, 2008

You mean, the same as Bush has been "inactive" in fixing ANY of these problems for 8 years?

Then maybe Clinton should have been MORE ACTIVE is stopping the "evil" GOP from wrecking our country ON HIS WATCH.

Gosh, I suppose next you''ll say the GOP was to blame for THE PRESIDENTIAL EXECUTIVE ORDERS that wrecked our national security and left all the doors and windows unlocked and open for the 9/11 attack - ANOTHER ACT OF SABOTAGE THAT BUSH FAILED to correct in time.

Are you blaming the GOP for CLINTON''S OWN EXECUTIVE ORDERS????
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