Turning The Iraq Tide, From The Bottom Up

Former Marine, Author Says The Perspective of Grunts On The Ground, And A Visionary Sunni Sheik, Reversed Course Of War

(CBS)  Who TRULY deserves the credit for the turnaround in the U.S. position in Iraq? It's a much-debated question, which our National Security Correspondent David Martin now addresses in this Sunday Journal:

---

The wealth and leisure of Newport, Rhode Island are about as far removed from Iraq as you can get.

Bing West lives here among the mega-yachts and mansions, yet it is Iraq which keeps drawing him back.

"I'm a writer," he told Martin. "I wanted to see for myself how this war was unfolding and at my age I had the opportunity to do it, and so I took the opportunity."

"But some people might say: 'Exactly, at your age, you're living the good life, why? Why do you need to do this?'" Martin asked.

"I think somebody should try to tell the story from the perspective of somebody who has fought an insurgency, who understands it," West said.

West was a Marine in Vietnam, and wrote a book about it, "The Village," which is now considered a classic work on counterinsurgency. But his exposure to what happens on a battlefield goes back further than that.

As a toddler he paraded not with a toy gun, but with a captured Japanese rifle.

"I was born during World War II and my uncles were Marines, and whenever they would come back from the islands, Iwo Jima and Okinawa and Guadacanal, my mother used to put me upstairs, playing with them, with the Marines. So to a large extent (laugh) I was raised by Marines!"

So when the U.S. invaded Iraq, West (left)went in with the Marines … shooting a video camera instead of a rifle.

"We were in the middle of the tank column, in a yellow SUV, with a close-up view - too close."

What he recorded was a grunt's eye view of the war, with all its implausibilities.

"We saw bizarre things, like this shepherd and his sheep walking in the middle of a firefight."

His latest book, "The Strongest Tribe: War, Politics, and the Endgame in Iraq" (Random House), is the product of 20 months on the front lines in Iraq. It's a bottom-up view of the war, which West believes is the only view that matters.

"This is not a book about great men," he said. "This is not a book about how terrific or how bad President Bush was, or General Petraeus. They didn't win or lose the war. The war was fought at that people level, at the ground level."

And it tells a very different story from the memoirs and inside-the-Oval Office exposes that have been written so far.

"When I hear people say, 'We just needed more troops,' I'd say, 'What were you gonna do with those troops when you didn't have a plan, you didn't have a strategy, you didn't have a doctrine, and you had poor leaders at the top who didn't "get it," didn't understand the situation?'"

West says the only ones who did "get it" were mid-ranking officers.

"They believed they understood the situation. They were the ones out there, but they weren't listened to."

As an acknowledged expert in guerilla war, West was able to send his own message from the bottom-up to the top, writing this memo to the American commander, Gen. George Casey (left), which said the insurgency was getting stronger.

"Did he agree with you?" Martin asked.

"Yes."

Yet, says West, Casey saw no need to change course.

"From start to finish, Casey's strategy was not victory, not to prevail, but to turn the war over to the Iraqis and have them settle it for themselves."

It was a no-win strategy, but the U.S. stuck with it - even as the specter of defeat loomed over the Bush administration.

"By June of 2006, from the president on down, there was high misgivings whether we were losing. And we were losing in the Baghdad area," West said.

Yet it would take seven more months for the president's war cabinet to come up with a new strategy.

"Could we have lost in terms of the morale of our own soldiers sagging to the point that it would have infected our Congress and everything else? Yes, probably," West said. "It was a close run thing."

"It was in those dark days that the first and perhaps only great leader of the Iraq war stepped forward - and he wasn't an American. He was Sheik Abu Resa Sattar.

"If you look for one national hero in Iraq, it's Sheik Sattar (left)," West said. "He said to his tribes, 'Look, we have to get rid of these guys, these al Qaeda guys.' I mean. this man had courage and vision."

And 99 out of 100 Americans have never heard of him.

"Correct. He was really exceptional."

Sattar was assassinated shortly after this meeting with President Bush. But that didn't stop what became known as the Great Awakening of the Sunni tribes in western Iraq.

"And as the Sunni tribes came over and began to say, 'He's al Qaeda … he's al Qaeda …' it just tilted, and al Qaeda had no place to hide."

It was a stunning turnaround. After three years of fighting against the tribes, the Marines joined forces with their former enemies to hunt down al Qaeda. It was the first inkling of a winning strategy - and once again it came from the bottom-up.

"So we actually were learning," Martin said.

"You can't b---s--- the guy who's out there on patrol," West said. "After a while, he begins to get it, to really get it."

But the eastern front - Baghdad and surroundings - was still in flames. This time the president's national security advisor, a civilian who looks more like an accountant than a warrior, stepped into the breach.

"In my judgment, Stephen Hadley (left), and I've talked to a lot of people about this, more than any other single person, deserves the credit for the change in strategy," West said.

And what does that say about military leadership, that it falls to a civilian to come up with a strategy that turns the tide, Martin asked.

"I believe it said about our military at the time that they were unwilling to look at radical change at a time when they should have looked at the radical change."

That radical change was, of course, the surge - sending five more combat brigades into Baghdad - everything the Army had left - plus a new commander, David Pretraeus.

"He took one look at the changed conditions in Anbar and said, 'What's going on here?' And they said, 'Well, the tribes are now with us.' Just like that, he got it. He said, 'I get it,' and he went back to Baghdad and said, 'What they're doing out in the western frontier, that's what we have to be doing here.'"

"His brilliance was recognizing success and reinforcing it," Martin said.

"Correct, correct."

It took nearly four years, West says, for the leaders to absorb the wisdom of the troops on the ground.

"What this war again showed is, you get into a war, you're getting down to the grunts. You're getting down to these groups of Marines and soldiers who are their own small tribes. I don't know where they come from. They're less than one-half of one percent of our population, but somehow they find each other, pull together."

"They're the same kids that were babysitting for you when you were two and three years old," Martin said.

"Correct, correct," West said. "Somehow, despite all our mistakes, this country still finds them."

[hacker2xy]

At least six people were killed and 50 wounded after a suicide car bomber staged a traffic accident as a tactic to draw more victims into the explosion.

The suicide attack happened around midday Sunday at an outdoor market in the city of Tal Afar, an Iraqi Interior Ministry official said.

[hacker2xy]

Also on Saturday, the head of security for Iraq''s Minister of Justice was wounded in an explosion in Baghdad. (reuters)

[hacker2xy]

,%u201D al-Zawahri said. %u201CIf the American forces leave, they will lose everything. And if they stay, they will bleed to death.%u201D

[kj_mojo]

Interesting insight. The first report about the war I''ve watched which makes sense to me.

[ljb6599]

How will the Irag government respond when they all discover they have been being spied on for years by this country.Not exactly the groundworks for a trusting relationship.Meanwhile 150,000-160,000 U.S.soldiers remain there with no troops coming home until next year.The current Bush administration has set up the democrats if they return to the white house because they will be blamed for increase violence when the troops starting coming home next year.Bush will leave the next administration to end the qugmire in Irag which they started. What a disgrace!!

[hacker2xy]

Success is when we have a stable government in Iraq and they can defend themselves from the Jihadist. Not that hard to figure out.......

[clestes-2009]

So the troops can come home!!

Wait, what is that you say?? Not until next Jan and next June is what Petraeus, the great surge master himself, wants!!

Gee, and I thought all this talk of winning the surge meant something.

Same old tired lies as the hundreds that preceded it for more than 5 years now.

[hacker2xy]

Islamic militancy rising in Europe, and who-knows-what in the way of terrorist incidents being prepared in the United States itself. All of these play in the Afghan and Iraqi wars, no less than car bombs in Baghdad and ambushes outside Kandahar. It is all one war, one battlefield. State boundaries mean nothing.

[hacker2xy]

The "surge" hasn%u2019t worked. There are no political gains, no political stability, the Iraqi haven%u2019t stood up, and America is still paying 10 billion/week in Iraq. The surge failed.....

[summarex]

I tink a lot of you are forgetting that superhuman efforts have been made towards minimizing casualties and violence in the run-up to the US election. This awakening council is essentially a vehicle for routing payoffs to the insurgents in exchange for a few months of inaction. After the election we should see either a flare up in violence or the start of a withdrawal.

[dremn1]

The person below must be really pissed we still have troops in Germany!!


So the troops can come home!!

Wait, what is that you say?? Not until next Jan and next June is what Petraeus, the great surge master himself, wants!!

Gee, and I thought all this talk of winning the surge meant something.

Same old tired lies as the hundreds that preceded it for more than 5 years now.

[ugot2bfree]

I have one question? How much was Sheik Sattar and his tribe paid by the US to start participating and stop killing US soldiers. From what I have read we are paying each opposing fighter $300 a month to not attack us. In comparison to the US living standard that is equivalent to a person in the US making $50,000 a year. So we went to Iraq to get rid of Hussein and we end up being black mailed by the tribes. Smart move Bush/McCain. It pisses me off to have my leaders get me into a situation where I am being ripped off everyday. Of course those same leaders and their friends are making a fortune off this war.
To all those planning to vote for McCain. Real smart.

[cameo35]

.............AND MCCAIN WANTS FOUR MORE YEARS OF WAR , HE''S SENILE "..

[jerkytree]

Bush,Cheney,Rumsfeld and Rice.

[jerkytree]

I guess Bush and Cheney will be on the board of the big oil giants and Rice will be promoted to be the next Secretary General of the UN. That would be in line with they way Washington works. Rewards for total failure.

[obamaisaho2]

jerkytree,

your name says it all. If anything the "total failure" are gutless, non-serving Lib cowards like you, your friends, especially Obama and Biden. Or as we say, Chimp and Chump.

Go hump Bin Laden. That''s really your speed, isn''t it.

[jerr11]

This book is a load of cra*p.

The surge is a cover for an elaborate scheme to defraud the American taxpayers by PAYING Sunni warlords and Islamic jihadists to keep the peace.

Yes, our soldiers are handing out FREE MONEY to those who''ve bombed and killed us!

Gen Betrayus''s war strategy:

If you can''t beat them PAY THEM WITH HARD CASH!

That''s called giving in to blackmail!

[ajaxtheleast]

Just read that yesterday''s suicide bomber

in Iraq first got into an auto accident,

then started an argument with the other drive,

waited for a crowd to gather

then blew himself up killing 6 and

wounding 24.

(If Mohammid wont go to the crowd,

bring the crowd to Mohammid)

[obamaisaho2]

CAMEO,

A memo for you and the other girlieboys like Hacker and Jerky.

Did you ever serve this country? Probably not, unless it was the Dairy Queen that even Obama thought he was too good for. Or the Salvation Army.

I was NOT a big fan of John McCain but if you want to call anyone senile or stupid, it is a "Black" guy who forgot the role of the Democratic Party in establishing Slavery and Secession - and after the Civil War, "Jim Crow" but one who goes running to kiss his good buddy Grand Kleagle aka Senator Byrd on the anal cavity. Or a plagarizer who claims he''s against terrorism yet voted to give the Iranian Revolutionary Guards a pass - to kill our servicemen -on the flimsy excuse it would give President Bush a pretext for war on Iran.

Nice. You call these non-serving cowards Americans? I call Chimp and Chump stupid senile ***.

Because it is they - NOT McCain, nor Bush, nor Cheney who truly are.

NEXT...

[obamaisaho2]

jerr,

another neo-nazi girlieboy coward who needs to change his diapers. he''s pissed because the Surge is working and that his allies, the Islamohitlerites are dying like the roaches they are.

Go change the diaper, little boy. And don''t forget to scream sieg heil like the rest of the Neo-Nazi girlieboys and Plantation Slave (Obama) supporters as the doors hits you in the - you know.

LOL.

[jerr11]

Posted by obamaisaho2 at 11:27 AM : Sep 07, 2008



I''m sick and tired of these Israeli agents trolling these boards posing as Americans.

Their only agenda is to get McCain elected so America will continue to fight their endless wars for them in the middle east!

If you''re against the war in Iraq,

a war costing us $12 billion a month,

so far over 4000 dead,

they call you a NAZI!!

Hey buddy,

one war for Israel is enough!

[pensacola98]

This is a very pleasant article to read, because it provides the first evidence that Iraqi were producing their heroes and leaders as they repelled Iranian sponsored insurgency.

I was always a critc of two things: I didn''t like the president or presidential candidates going to Iraq to meet with anyone there. It proved hazardous for Sattar, who was assasinated the next day, and the loss was never revealed until now.

I didn''t like Donald Rumsfield use of media to propel Pvt. Jessica Lynch into stardom. It reminded me of the captured Nazi media film reels about patriotism that were distributed to control the country and dampen dissention.

History will not be kind to us for the Iraqi invasion for quite some time regardless of the outcome. Twenty or thirty years may pass and the Iraqis will teach their young, that they repelled the coalition forces.

What the USA has finally learned is that only brutal force can stave down religious-based dissention. This is why removing Milosevec and Saddaam Hussien was comparable to removing a cork from the bottle and allowing the villanous genie to escape.

[jerr11]

This book is a load of cra*p.

The surge is a cover for an elaborate scheme to defraud the American taxpayers by PAYING Sunni warlords and Islamic jihadists to keep the peace.

Yes, our soldiers are handing out FREE MONEY to those who''ve bombed and killed us!

Gen Betrayus''s brilliant war strategy:

If you can''t beat them PAY THEM WITH HARD CASH!

That''s called giving in to blackmail!

[smtownmayor]

Palin/Patraeus 2012!

[edward1975-2009]

It was always known that the strategy for Iraq was flawed and this is what caused this to be as strung out as it has been. But this in no way, shape, or form, excuses people here in the states that make disparging comments about the men and women who serve and have made the ultimate sacrifice for this great nation. You don''t have to agree with the politics of the war, but you should absolutely support those who serve.

[jgertzma73kv]

Thanks for the McCain commercial. While Mr West''s credentials as military strategist are strong, your story was about how the war was mismanaged, but finally, b/c we listened to our boots on the ground, we "got it right," and got the better of the evil ones. No mention of how Al Qaeda metastasized to its present power through our unilateralist policy. More, more occupation: a hundred years if necessary. No mention of what happens in a country when its natural resources are appropriated after an invasion built on lies. No mention of the number of young people rounded up and thrown into prison, the number of homes invaded, the chaos that still is Bagdad. That was b/c of bad judgment, not the fact of preemptive invasion. After all, once we "get it right," the benefits are enormous: to Big Oil, arms manufacturers like (hmm) G.E., and military privatizers who train mercenaries to do tasks of occupation that make ordinary young men and women mentally ill. I''m referring to those Americans who, when they return from the dehumanizing tasks imposed on them, wait months and years for treatment while the money goes to fight more battles for the sake of Blackwater, Exxon, and -- yes -- GE.

[jimbo554]

Edward1975, in all fairness I haven''t heard anybody disparage the troops themselves. Except for that Abu Ghraib thing and a few out of control soldiers, all the criticism has been directed at those leading the military. I think it is a popular myth among Republicans that Democrats and "liberals" say disparaging things about the troops, but I''m just not really seeing such a thing.

[edward1975-2009]

Jimbo554: I don''t see it as a party thing, more from those who have never served and question these patriots that do. We are safely enjoying life here in the states, while those abroad are tasked with keeping their butts alive, then have some question the manner in which they do that. That is who this was directed too. And thank you for your comment.

[missingamerica]

[bq]
That radical change was, of course, the surge - sending five more combat brigades into Baghdad - everything the Army had left - plus a new commander, David Pretraeus.

"He took one look at the changed conditions in Anbar and said, ''What''s going on here?'' And they said, ''Well, the tribes are now with us.'' Just like that, he got it.
[...]
"His brilliance was recognizing success and reinforcing it," Martin said.
[eq]

There are better ways to get people to act the way you want them to than by an invasion and their forcible removal from all of their roles in their society.

Bush, Cheney, & PNAC, LLP, of course, were inadequately prepared to learn that because of too little offshore experience and far too much experience with instant obedience due to their grip on the economic survival and/or careers of their subordinates in the States.

Gaining the capability to say "You''re fired!" in no way makes you a leader - in today''s America, it just makes you a politician.

Secondly, re-read that phrase "everything the Army had left" and ponder Putin''s moves in light of that information; ponder too Putin''s undoubted awareness that we have crippled our industrial base.

Republicans lack the long-term vision it takes to be a leader; their decisions are driven by their need for instant gratification - typically, of their greed.

Worse, they feel unduly safe in their cocoon of accumulated wealth and power, and so they don''t hesitate to start wars or over commit our forces.

[missingamerica]

[bq]
That radical change was, of course, the surge - sending five more combat brigades into Baghdad - everything the Army had left - plus a new commander, David Pretraeus.

"He took one look at the changed conditions in Anbar and said, ''What''s going on here?'' And they said, ''Well, the tribes are now with us.'' Just like that, he got it.
[...]
"His brilliance was recognizing success and reinforcing it," Martin said.
[eq]

There are better ways to get people to act the way you want them to than by an invasion and their forcible removal from all of their roles in their society.

Bush, Cheney, & PNAC, LLP, of course, were inadequately prepared to learn that because of too little offshore experience and far too much experience with instant obedience due to their grip on the economic survival and/or careers of their subordinates in the States.

Gaining the capability to say "You''re fired!" in no way makes you a leader - in today''s America, it just makes you a politician.

Secondly, re-read that phrase "everything the Army had left" and ponder Putin''s moves in light of that information; ponder too Putin''s undoubted awareness that we have crippled our industrial base.

Republicans lack the long-term vision it takes to be a leader; their decisions are driven by their need for instant gratification - typically, of their greed.

Worse, they feel unduly safe in their cocoon of accumulated wealth and power, and so they don''t hesitate to start wars or over commit our forces.

[andrew_693]

First of all, the war is not over yet, today a suicide bomber killed 25 so there''s a lot of *** going on every day. The situation is not normalized, in no normal city around the world bombs go off every day, nowhere in the civilized world there are mercenaries from another country running around pointing guns at people, like the blackawater guys are doing. Also "not fighting" the war and letting the iraquis take the hits is not exactly winning. Third, the operation was to find weapons of mass destruction.....there are no weapons anywhere, it''s basically a waste of taxpayers money for a mistake that nobody is being held accountable to this day. Lastly, if the operation was meant to take out Saddam because he was dictator, it''s totally a lie because there are dictators all over the world, some of them are even our allies and commit barbarities against their own people every day and we don''t invade them. When you start to see that iraq is the second largest producer of oil in the world, than the invasion makes sense and when you see that the "coalition of the willing" is made up of countries that have huge debts with the US it also makes sense why Bush found some support in commiting this barbarity. They are doing the same thing in afghanistan, if you read, there civilians being bombed by mistake every day by american bombers. They are cleaning up in order to run a pipe line to steal more oil.

[jacques42]

The Sunnis and the Shiites briefly interrupted fighting each other in the 1100s when Saladin pointed out that the Knights Templar had parked their horses at the Temple Mount?

Senator John Kennedy pissed off the Vietnamese people when he suggested that the Catholics could run the country better because they spoke better French.

President John Kennedy and this Harvard/Yale team decided that Fidel Castro was a commie because he wore a beard, just like Karl Marx. Later, Fidel pissed of Kennedy when he threw the Italian Mob out of Havana and took away their hotels and casinos. Kennedy and the CIA then began to cause mischief on the island, to the extent had Fidel asked Nikita for help. The real hero of the %u201CKennedy Legacy%u201D is Nikita.

The real casualties are the young men that continue show up at the recruiting stations. As long as they are %u201Csmart enough to do the work, but dumb enough to do the job,%u201D the president and congress will continue the same, repetitive misadventures, based on ignorance and arrogance.

Until the American people learn to read, and to read history, the longer we will be throwing away our cash and our children.

There is always the opportunity to support the VA in their efforts to disown and distain the American serviceman. The solution, and we%u2019re getting close, no warrior, no war. Our young men can come home to die.

[downsteamjim]

How dare someone say something positive about the American and Iraqi success! The left is very fearful that democracy may take hold in Iraq.

[misha128-2009]

Why doesn''t Col MacFarland get credit for his own work?

First McCain claims is has part of his "extended surge" no one else recognizes (it was between several and many months before the surge started according to any other source). Then Stephen Hadley get credit for copying it and taking it to Baghdad?

[misha128-2009]

cCain says this is Winning?

Sunni regions were considerably less organized than the Shiite and Kurdish regions because of their initial violence levels and non-participation were not aided with the passage of the Reconciliation Law. The Reconciliation Law (a falsely claimed success), intended to reinstate qualified Sunnis excluded in the initial post-war setup of the government, backfired as significant numbers of "previously qualified" Sunnis were disqualified (not expected) and fewer "previously disqualified" Sunnis were reinstated than expected.

Further indications of failure came with the backsliding provincial elections (another claimed success) as first delayed and then canceled for 2008. The Sunnis remain under represented and their regions remain disorganized due to a boycott of the national elections and the cancellation of provincial elections.

The formal sharing of oil revenues between the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds is only a interim agreement as the Oil Law is not completed.

Sunnis insurgents (most are still disqualified by the government) were paid and guaranteed future jobs (government) by US forces in exchange for their cooperation (the "Anbar Awakening") cannot be satisfied with the proceeding issues. Especially considering the risks associated with the pending withdrawal of US troops, opening the real possibility for civil war a between the factions considering all the unresolved issues.

Does this even sound like success or diplomatic failure?

[hbevis]

Start reading instead of going on and on...

[hbevis]

Also "not fighting" the war and letting the iraquis take the hits is not exactly winning. Third, the operation was to find weapons of mass destruction.....there are no weapons anywhere, it''''s basically a waste of taxpayers money for a mistake that nobody is being held accountable to this day. Lastly, if the operation was meant to take out Saddam because he was dictator, it''''s totally a lie because there are dictators all over the world, some of them are even our allies and commit barbarities against their own people every day and we don''''t invade them. When you start to see that iraq is the second largest producer of oil in the world, than the invasion makes sense and when you see that the "coalition of the willing" is made up of countries that have huge debts with the US it also makes sense why Bush found some support in commiting this barbarity. They are doing the same thing in afghanistan, if you read, there civilians being bombed by mistake every day by american bombers. They are cleaning up in order to run a pipe line to steal more oil.

Posted by andrew_693 at 05:03 PM : Sep 07, 2008

Sounds just like another "Liberal" to me. We are making progress in Iraq. Listen to the men on the ground and you may be able to figure it all out.

[hbevis]

How dare someone say something positive about the American and Iraqi success! The left is very fearful that democracy may take hold in Iraq.

Posted by downsteamjim at 05:21 PM : Sep 07, 2008

YOU HAVE MADE A VERY POSITIVE POINT HERE. I JUST WISH THAT THE LIBERALS WOULD BE QUITE AND LET THE MILITARY DO THEIR JOB.

[hbevis]

Third, the operation was to find weapons of mass destruction.....there are no weapons anywhere, it''s basically a waste of taxpayers money for a mistake that nobody is being held accountable to this day.

There was WMD in Iraq. Saddam had used them on his own people. How about the Russian Fighter Jets that were found covered with sand in the desert? When we first went into the WAR Saddam%u2019s own Generals thought that they had WMD%u2019s that they could use against us.

I feel that people are being held accountable to a great degree.

[gce65]

It''s still been a waste of our time, money, and has destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives for the military and civilian dead, wounded and their families on both sides.

[hbevis]

I think that the only way the "tide will get turned" is when the "men" in those countries decide to GROW UP and be MEN! They worry about all the wrong things while what SHOULD be worried about goes to hell in a handbasket. All I see them do is sit on their ***** and make up stupid rules that the WOMEN have to follow. Let''''s get real - beating your wife doesn''''t get rid of the taliban. Shooting a woman in the head doesn''''t build a hospital or fix a home. Selling your 6-year old daughter off in "marriage" doesn''''t get her an education. If they''''re SO proud of being "men" WHY DON''''T THEY DO SOMETHING FOR THEIR COUNTRY?

Posted by Demongirl60 at 06:54 PM : Sep 07, 2008

I feel that you 100% right...

[hbevis]

It''''s still been a waste of our time, money, and has destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives for the military and civilian dead, wounded and their families on both sides.

Posted by gce65 at 07:18 PM : Sep 07, 2008

You are right to some extent. But, hindsight is always 20/20. We are doing a lot of good over there right now. Since some of the Iraqi people got their heads together and went to turning in the trouble makers, things have been coming together for the good of everyone.

[neo267-2009]

A "war" that would never have happened in the first place without the News Media and sick Liberal Hypocrisy encouraging and supporting the Terrorists. Get rid of the enemies here and we will have a lot fewer enemies elsewhere.

[toolmangler-2009]

This jerk just signed the Sheiks death warrant. he is nothing but a dead man walking. You were a good man Sheik Abu Resa Sattar.

[edward1975-2009]

andrew693: Hussein used them on the nothern Kurdish villages, he had started his own version of Hitler''s ethnic cleasening, where upwards of 600K people died, he had to be gotten rid of. And the good that has came from our presence in the region is showing today. Nations who haven''t sat and talked peace in over 50 yrs, Isreal and surrounding Arab countries, are now doing so. This region could no longer be left to it''s own devices. Some order had to be restored. Progress is being made in Iraq daily, to the extent that we will be cutting our trops down, though I wish this government ( Iraqi) would quit taking babysteps, they are getting there. It didn''t happen overnight, nothing worthwhile ever does, but they are getting there.

[claydowner]

What David Martin''s interview with Bing West represents is the wisdom of grunts on the ground. Counterinsurgency warfare requires expert diplomatic, cultural awareness, and linquistic skills in order to achieve a political resolution between the parties engaged in combat. You can have all of the firepower and technology that you want but without a longterm strategy that emphasizes political reconciliation between the parties you can never win regardless of how many "battles" you win, you will lose the war.

Guerrilla and counter-terrorist wars need diplomats, foreign area officers, and civil affairs administrators who are all in agreement to a common political goal backed up by a strategy to make it happen. Counterinsurgency warfare is about as complex of a subject that you can find. The benefits of having the local tribes on your side will allow you to destroy terrorists fairly quickly because they have no where to hide. If you fail to win the local tribes over you will be chasing ghosts literally forever because the bad guys will always have a place to hide. George Bush and *** Cheney should have served as infantryman out on patrol in Vietnam. Then they would be like Senators Chuck Hagel and John Kerry. They would actually understand what they bit off when we invaded Iraq in 2003 instead of the bogus neoconservative rubbish they turned out totally wrong.

[marshall65]

"This jerk just signed the Sheiks death warrant. he is nothing but a dead man walking. You were a good man Sheik Abu Resa Sattar. ".............Geez-you scanned the article then jumped to your expert conclusion. Read it again-the Sheik was killed after his interview with Bush...............Claydowner, thank you. You put it as best as it can be stated and I like your comment about Hagel and Kerry. People we should listen to but wind up ignoring at our own peril.

[marshall65]

"There was WMD in Iraq. Saddam had used them on his own people." It wasn''t too hard in 2000 and 2001 to see that Hussein put up a front to keep the Iranians misinformed. A lot of folks figured that out. Powell did not show his usual conviction when he went before the UN with Tenet and Negroponte sitting behind him and he has said several times since that appearance is a blot on his record. The pre-invasion excuses were cooked up and that''s behind us. How we leave the field with honor is another question staring us in the face. Hopefully not like when Nixon abandoned South Vietnam.

[claydowner]

We need to step back and not get too involved with looking at tactics, strategy, and diplomatic efforts in Iraq. The critics of the Iraq war really do not understand that just pulling out of Iraq won''t really change anything. We will just be going back to the Persian Gulf or Africa to fight more wars for oil at some future date. Maybe there will be more terrorism combined with a war that leads to making it nearly impossible to secure our energy supply lines. If Israel strikes Iran maybe the price for oil can get to $200 or more per barrel. I personally wish oil would stay high priced then the country will get smart for a change.

What has to be done to honor the sacrifice of our servicemen in Iraq is to break our dependence on foreign oil forever. We can not drill our way out with only 3% of the world''s oil reserves and 25% of the demand. We need to adopt an Al Gore/T.Boone Pickens approach and invest in huge windfarms on the Plains states, solar in the desert southwest, smart electric grids, and natural gas for trucks with cars going to all electric plugin or plugin hybrid types that get at least 50 MPG plus.

The US Federal Government must make a strategic shift away from imported oil from unstable parts of the globe. The cycle of death, killing, terrorism, and economic boom to bust to bankruptcy will never end until we quit depending on imported oil forever.

[txpatriot4us]

I have a hunch this story was tossed in to counter the Woodward story. Like Oh it''s all good! Not.