Russia Warns West Against Backing Georgia

Moscow: Supporting Saakashvili "Mistake Of Historic Proportion"; Claims That Arms Came In With U.S. Aid

(CBS/AP)  Russia warned the West on Monday against supporting Georgia's leadership and called for an arms embargo against the nation until a different government is in place in the ex-Soviet republic.

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov's remarks are likely to anger the United States and Europe and enrage Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili. He made it clear Moscow wants Saakashvili out of power in Georgia.

"If the United States and its allies in the end choose not their own national interests, not the interests of the Georgian people, but rather choose the Saakashvili regime, it will be a mistake of historic proportions," Lavrov said.

"For a start it would be right to impose an embargo on weapons to this regime, until different authorities turn Georgia a normal state," he said in an address at Russia's top foreign policy graduate school.

Later Monday, Russia suggested U.S. ships that brought humanitarian aid to Georgia may have also carried weapons.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Andrei Nesterenko said such suspicions were among the motives for Russia's call for an arms embargo against Georgia.

Nesterenko told a news conference there were "suppositions" that the cargo of U.S. military ships that have brought aid for war-battered Georgia may also have included "military components."

Nesterenko also said that Russia would welcome an international police presence and more Western military observers in what is now a Russian-controlled zone around South Ossetia, the focus of the war earlier this month. But he indicated it will be a long time before Russia is ready to reduce its military presence.

The foreign ministry officials spoke as the European Union prepared for a summit Monday to discuss the Georgia crisis and further relations with Russia.

Russia's ties to the West have been driven to their lowest point since the Soviet collapse of 1991 by the war last month in Georgia, where Saakashvili angered Moscow by courting the West and seeking NATO membership.

Russia repelled a Georgian offensive against the breakaway Georgian province of South Ossetia and sent troops, tanks and bombers deep into undisputed Georgian territory, where some still maintain positions. Moscow last week recognized South Ossetia and another breakaway region, Abkhazia, as independent countries.

Russia says it was provoked. The United States and Europe have accused Russia of using disproportionate force and of violating the terms of a cease-fire that called for the sides to withdrawal their forces to pre-conflict positions. They have also denounced Russia's recognition of the separatist regions, saying Georgia's borders must remain intact.

[tbweb]

I understand how Russia feels completely, its very frustrating when a request is made to stop supporting what one side thinks is a bad leader and the other side does not listen! Why should the United States listen to and entertain Russia`s request to stop supporting Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili? The United States is not arming Georgia with nuclear technology or nuclear know how like Russia is doing in Iran! Which brings up Iran, why is Russia still supporting Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad when the U.S. made a similar request to Russia to stop supporting him which Russia ignores! Despite several U.N. Sanctions Russia still supports Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad! I don`t speak for my government of course, but I suggest that when Russia stops supporting Ahmadinejad, the U.S. will think about not supporting Saakashvili!

[ogobeone]

Perhaps Mr. Sergey Lavrov should be calling for elections to be held, instead of overthrowing an elected head of state.

Not to be expected, since Lavrov''s government is not elected.

[im4honesty]

Russia is starting a war. Putin is the new Hitler. We don''''t need to wait. Just forget the Mideast and bomb those Communists. Yes- the new communism there is very nearly complete. Now, it is ready to spore as did the old one.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by caliengineer


Good idea... but first we have to bomb Iran, and then North Korea, and then Argentina, and then Syria, and then Mexico, and then Canada, and then Texas. Ah, hell, let''s just blow up the planet, that''ll stop ''em.

[ajaxtheleast]

Putin better go back to the old
tried and proven Russian way !!!

Regeme change and or arms embargo either
takes too long and can get real messy or
doesn''t work at all,,,, Just ask the two
geniuses trying to keep arms from
Hesbollah and Hamas.

Putin doesn''t like Suckassvili ??

Then Suckassvili ends up in the hospital
with a face looking like the outside
of a pinapple gurgling something that sounds
like,,,"Ptttnn did iit ttt meee."

It aint pretty but it works,,,
The old fashion Russian way.

caliengineer wrote:

"Russia is starting a war. Putin is the new Hitler. We don''''t need to wait. Just forget the Mideast and bomb those Communists. Yes- the new communism there is very nearly complete. Now, it is ready to spore as did the old one."

Russia is doing exactly what we have done throughout the world over the past 70 years, except they don''t bother to conceal things.

Having said this, we also need to take a tough stance on this, and let them know exactly what they will get if they keep pressing.

Meanwhile, GW Bush does nothing, because he''s squandered our military might by invading a country that was already dead.

Unlike GW Bush, Putin is an intelligent man, who knows exactly what the situation is, and what he can do.

And he also knows that GW Bush won''t do anything - because GW Bush is a lame duck and is finished anyway.

Lets be real here. Georgia attacked in Ossetia. America has also been aggravating this by hedging the Russians in with ballistic missiles in Poland and the Ukraine. How would we react if they put missiles in Cuba, Mexico and jamaica? We''re FREAK OUT.
Does anyone believe that Georgia would attack south Ossetia without assurances that they would be protected by the US? C''mon. As Ron Paul said stop meddling in the affairs of others...we dont have the money to do it.

[tapsettle]

Western spin has gone mad. As if it wasn''t shameful enough that we let Bush spin the iraq WMD farce into a disaster we could have avoided. With his UK puppet faithfully by his side, he now spins the Georgia attack on South Ossetia as Russian aggression. If we are not careful, he will spin the world to the disaster of a new cold-war. If he continues to back the murderous Georgian lunatic president, Bush will spin the world into a new war period.

Humanity should be focused on our common interests. Exploring new worlds, extending life, creating peace...these wars over oil are foolish. We can get all the energy we need from clean local sources. This notion of "economy" and "trade" are literally killing us because we''re slaves to it. We need an American energy policy for Americans. If we consider the costs of military support for our oil interests abroad oil is probably $9 / gallon rather than the $4 we see at the pump. Hemp based ethanol is cheap and could be made available quickly, hydrogen vehicles are ready and could be subsidized if we spend less on fighting war....McSame and Obama have no vision. Expect more of the same until we decide to turn off the next episode of "Big Brother" and turn our attention to how poorly we''re being governed.

[tapsettle]

Russia is starting a war. Putin is the new Hitler. We don''''t need to wait. Just forget the Mideast and bomb those Communists.
-----
Posted by caliengineer

I hope and pray (very hard) that the first Russian response lands on you, as clearly the world would be a better place without you.

[samsel3]

The truth is, this is all about control of oil & gas pipelines. The BTC oil pipeline in South Ossetia & the Nabucco natural gas pipeline in NW Georgia supply markets in the European Union. In November 2003 the World Bank funded the BTC pipeline to circumvent Russian pipelines supplying europe.

Shareholders in the BTC pipeline are: British Petroleum, AzBTC, Chevron, Statoil, TPAO, ENI, Total, Itochu, INPEX, ConocoPhillips & Amerada Hess.

Russia is the second largest supplier of oil & gas on the planet.
After loosing Iraqi oil to Operation Iraqi Freedom, they negotiated supplies with Iran. The Russians were not happy with Cheneys BTC pipeline or the Caspian Sea Pipelines project going through Afghanistan. This threatens their economy based on oil & gas.

Again it''s the Bush administrations lust for money in World markets for their BIG OIL buddies

[rjsparling]

Lets be real here. Georgia attacked in Ossetia. America has also been aggravating this by hedging the Russians in with ballistic missiles in Poland and the Ukraine. How would we react if they put missiles in Cuba, Mexico and jamaica? We''''re FREAK OUT.


Umm ... They did try to put missles in Cuba in the early 1960s - the Cuban Missile Crisis. We did freak out. It nearly started a nuclear war. So now we put missles just off their borders.... What did anyone expect?

[neoconrcrazy]

"Russia says it was provoked. The United States and Europe have accused Russia of using disproportionate force"....

like the killing of 650''000 iraqis isn''t disproportonate???

neocon hypocrites every one of them.

[tapsettle]

Georgia attacked in Ossetia .... So now we put missles just off their borders.... What did anyone expect?
----
Posted by RJSparling

To me this is obvious common sense, and I''m pleased to see some posts reflecting this. What I want to know is, why are there so many americans that do not see it? I sometimes see so many posts of ''nuke the russians'' and ''its obvious Russia started it'' and I am beside myself with disbelief. Why is it there are so many americans who just dont recognise the most basic facts? Why is it there are no such things in the US as facts ... just people who believe a statement and people who dont believe a statement. How can we avoid war with so much spin and so many stupid people????

[neoconrcrazy]

for all of you who consider israel''s take-over of palestine as "gains of war", you should be in full support of russia''s actions, right?

[dimhumb]

"Russia''s ties to the West have been driven to their lowest point since the Soviet collapse of 1991 by the war last month in Georgia, where Saakashvili angered Moscow by courting the West and seeking NATO membership."

...and killing Russian peacekeepers (more than 10) and Ossetian civilians (more than 1600 in the night 8 aug.) at once by the bobming them under the cover of night - should have been added.
Right??? Reporters?

[hacker2xy]

Russia may cut off oil flow to the West

[dimhumb]

News. Russia started paying Ossetians compensations (539 million roubles in tote = $23 million) and financing for rebuilding (12 billion rubles = $520 million in tote as a start). Russia has set up a special programm for the rebuilding in Ossetia.

[hacker2xy]

Telegraph.co.uk (29 Aug 2008)
Fears are mounting that Russia may restrict oil deliveries to Western Europe over coming days, in response to the threat of EU sanctions and Nato naval actions in the Black Sea. Any such move would be a dramatic escalation of the Georgia crisis and play havoc with the oil markets.

[hacker2xy]

RUSSIA last night provoked fresh fears of a Cold War by boasting it has tested a new long-range nuclear missile.
Moscow%u2019s military chiefs revealed their Topol intercontinental stealth rocket had been fired successfully.

[hacker2xy]

"They have been told to be ready to cut off supplies as soon as Monday," claimed a high-level business source, speaking to The Daily Telegraph. Any move would be timed to coincide with an emergency EU summit in Brussels, where possible sanctions against Russia are on the agenda.

[hacker2xy]

Global supplies remain tight despite the economic downturn engulfing North America, Europe and Japan. A supply cut at this delicate juncture could drive crude prices much higher, possibly to record levels of $150 or even $200 a barrel.

[omnibus66]

After Miss Grin-N-Wave went to Georgia, we were told that agreements had been signed, the Russians were going to leave, and everything was hunky dorrie.

After all, everyone knows that invading a sovereign nation for regime change is wrong. Well, almost everyone. The Smirkinator doesn''t count, he''s a special case.

And then there''s the Polish missile debacle. Don''t know why the Russians would be upset about the US putting missiles a few miles from their border. It''s just to protect the Poles from Iran. There again, everyone knows that Iran has been hurling threat after threat at Poland for years. Well, almost everyone. Well, at least that is what Miss Grin-N-Wave says.

[hacker2xy]

With what moral authority do these mainstays of the neoconservative, corporate elitist, greedy, self-interested Washington regime speak, when in their own closet there are skeletons labeled Abu Ghraib, Iraq, Guantanamo, mass murder, war crimes, illegal invasion, torture, illegal detention, disrespect for international law, denial of due process, rape...?

[samsel3]

The truth is, this is all about control of oil & gas pipelines. The BTC oil pipeline in South Ossetia & the Nabucco natural gas pipeline in NW Georgia supply markets in the European Union. In November 2003 the World Bank funded the BTC pipeline to circumvent Russian pipelines supplying europe.

Shareholders in the BTC pipeline are: British Petroleum, AzBTC, Chevron, Statoil, TPAO, ENI, Total, Itochu, INPEX, ConocoPhillips & Amerada Hess.

Russia is the second largest supplier of oil & gas on the planet.
After loosing Iraqi oil to Operation Iraqi Freedom, they negotiated supplies with Iran. The Russians were not happy with Cheneys BTC pipeline or the Caspian Sea Pipelines project going through Afghanistan. This threatens their economy based on oil & gas.

Again it''s the Bush administrations lust for money in World markets for their BIG OIL buddies

[hacker2xy]

As for Cheney, this eminence grise learned a long time ago to shut the f. up and do his evil deeds behind closed doors. Nice man. After all, here is the man with all the contacts among his neocon friends, the corporate elitists whose policies dictate what Washington does and how many people its foreign policies kill. Nice man. Rumour has it that not even his own family speak to him. And how clever he was when all those contracts were allocated without tender after the US military forces targeted civilian structures in Iraq. Nice man.

[scottyusa]

The arrogance of Russia is astonishing. Who are they to warn us about anything? They are obviously trying to reverse history. They have completely lost it. Threatening to nuke Poland of all things. The west needs to nip this in the bud and put Russia back where it belongs; on the side lines.

[hypnotoad72]

Let''s support Russia. (We already offshore jobs there).

Hurry up one world government; if that''ll save everyone.

[hacker2xy]

If this pig-headed trio of crypto-fascists was to focus on its own country%u2019s deeds, then nobody would have anything to say. It is, after all, up to the people of the USA to vote for whoever they wish to lead them, deceive them, act against their interests, get the country hated in the international community, screw up its economy...whatever turns you on.

[nextgenman]

Russia has basically kicked Shrub Boy''s hinder. How funny.

[misha128-2009]

US foreign policy packed up in an old dusty cardborad box for 6 years and Bush/Cheney try to open the box and use the contents what happens.

The Bush Administration unilaterally cancels Clinton''s deal with the North Koreans, increases the concessions by releasing 25 million dollars to the North Koreans, alleged counterfeiters of US Currency, as part of a deal to make the Korean Peninsula Nuke-Free in a deal that was claimed to be as bad as Clinton''s by Ex UN Ambassador John Bolton, a fellow neocon. The consistent with projections shortly thereafter the North Koreans threatened to resume their nuclear program partially financed by the incompetence of President Bush. In the end as bad as Clinton''s deal may have been at least he did not pay for it twice.

Funny didn''t the neocons have the same correct projections of the Iraq war that they dismissed before starting it that came true later. Apparently they are only half a dumb as they appear they can determine the probable responses to an action. They are just unable to determine which probable response is more likely to occur or to plan contingencies and safeguards to prevent the occurrence of negative scenarios they predict.

[misha128-2009]

Correction

This is clearly not so funny.

With most disturbing consequences, didn''t the neocons have the same correct projections of the Iraq war that they dismissed before starting it that came true later.

[misha128-2009]

Maybe the neocons were not so good at predicting all outcomes like they did in Iraq. While Condi Rice was practicing her preferred form of diplomacy with our enemies including Russia in this case -- the "Don Rickles'' Insult". It appears they successfully maneuvered for alleged defensive, humanitarian and peacekeeping role to counter neither humanely nor as peacekeepers the military build-up in Georgia, the continued creeping of NATO closer to Russia and the missile defense system in Poland which if limited as stated would provide no effective protection from Russian missiles (the alleged purpose was protection from Iranian missiles that they are believed yet required to design and produce. Were the Bush initiatives in the area too rapid, was there a lack of coordination or civil rhetoric that led to hostilities in Georgia? We may never know, but I believe we should be asking questions and expecting answers.

[jmurrieta1]

Since Saakashvili did John McCain such a nice favor in starting this conflagration, no doubt with some words of encouragement passed on to Saaks by McCain''s campaign manager / paid lobbyist for Saaks, if McCain is elected, we can certainly look forward to his reckless game of Chicken.

Although one would think that the Black Sea would not be the best place for the USA to initiate conflict with the Red Army, if indeed any place would be good for that. McCain seems hellbent in getting us into further military actions, and his hot temper and lack of judgment may be disastrous on a scale that Bush''s incompetence could only dream of.

[hacker2xy]

Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister, said Russia was a power to be reckoned with and that he did not expect any steps from the Brussels meeting that would "aggravate" the situation.

"It still has a nuclear potential able to destroy ten times the population of the world. It''s a country growing at a rate of 7-8 per cent a year. It''s a country which has oil and gas," he said.

[hacker2xy]

The EU is divided over whether or not to implement sanctions on Russia, as France, Germany and Italy insist the bloc should not take steps to isolate Moscow, while Britain says it must face some consequences. Russia is Europe''s largest energy supplier.

[misha128-2009]

The arrogance of Russia is astonishing. Who are they to warn us about anything? They are obviously trying to reverse history. They have completely lost it. Threatening to nuke Poland of all things. The west needs to nip this in the bud and put Russia back where it belongs; on the side lines.

Posted by scottyusa at 08:11 AM

Right, wrong or otherwise; viewing events starting after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Iron Curtain to date; could the Russian feel as threatened as we were by Russian nuclear missiles in Cuba. NATO alliances in countries that were previously under Russian influence, the military buildup in Georgia, the anti-missile facilities in the Czech Republic and Poland. A US Government and Secretary of State that responded to statements of Russian concern with insults that they could not be so stupid to believe that 10 missile interceptors could negate their nuclear threat anywhere. Brinnksmanship is a dangerous international action requiring at least two participants where the slightest miscalculation often has very serious consequences on intermediaries, Intermediaries that are relatively minor participants in reasonably inconsequential actions; however when aggregated are viewed in a larger and more ominous context.

[hacker2xy]

Moscow - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on Monday called for an international weapons embargo on Georgia until President Mikheil Saakashvili is ousted from office, the Interfax news agency reported. "If the US and its allies have failed to learn lessons and were to give further (military) support to Saakashvili''s regime, that would be a mistake of historic proportions," Lavrov said.

[jydavis1]

Russia is in a much greater position of power than the US & Europe .. couple them with Iran & China and it is clear that the global power shift is underway..

[hacker2xy]

US officials last week said Washington would move to give Georgia new military assistance in the wake of Tbilisi''s defeat in last month''s war with Russia over the Georgian separatist province Ossetia

[hacker2xy]

Russia will remain in the region until persons responsible for starting the war "are unable to do more mischief," Lavrov said.

[misha128-2009]

... The west needs to nip this in the bud and put Russia back where it belongs; on the side lines.

Posted by scottyusa at 08:11 AM

Question nip it in the bud with what? How? We are currently three combat brigades short of requirements in Afghanistan. As last reported, we have a Navy ship and a Coast Guard Cutter loaded with relief supplies maneuvering off the coast of Georgia unable to secure permission to offload relief supplies at a Georgian port surrounded by the Russians. The ships as they are warships are not being viewed as humanitarian aid vessels by the Russians and (at least relatively unarmed) hospital vessels are still a considerable distance away. The bulk of our NATO allies are dependent on Russian oil and natural gas for their own economies. What measured response is available beyond real diplomacy?

[Thomas1016]

Do not be surprised at the Russian behavior. While the old soviet union may be no more. The Russian imperialist attitude has been around since the czars. The economic collapse of the soviet union simply put it on hold for awhile. Now with Russia resurging economicly their imperialist attitude is as well.

[flreason]

Does anyone doubt that the Bush alliance with the military-industrial-oil complex would court Armageddon to maintain their political control of the US?

[tangula-2009]

There is no threatening from Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov%u2019s word, only his nation%u2019s idea for the possible solution based on their country%u2019s interest. As the west leaders are attending the summit for the possible solution for this crisis, this at least give them a clue about what the Russian is thinking. As the west countries are neighboring with Russia and its rich natural resources and bourgeoning market provides sound support and rare opportunity for the west to grow even stronger and more civilized, the Russian%u2019s concern should be their concern. For their own people%u2019s fundamental interests, the EU should consider the solution by them own, not influenced by their ally far away. Georgian current president Saakashvili did make a mistake and he should pay it by himself, not by people of Georgian or even people of other nations. So how wise the current EU leaders be, let%u2019s see the possible statement from the conclusion of their meeting.

[pirmin3]

Russia knows full well that the USA can''t do anything but blow hot air. GW has already made us the laughing stock of the world.

[Thomas1016]

Anyone else find it ironic that there are so many Russian posters on an American news wesite? Hmmmm.....I wonder why......

[hacker2xy]

Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi''s influential son, echoed the delight expressed in much of the Arab news media. "What happened in Georgia is a good sign, one that means America is no longer the sole world power setting the rules of the game," the younger Gaddafi was quoted as telling the Russian daily Kommersant. "There is a balance in the world now. Russia is resurging, which is good for us, for the entire Middle East."

[hacker2xy]

In Turkey, an American and European ally that obtains more than two-thirds of its natural gas from Russia, the reaction was more complex. Turks watched as the United States, NATO and a divided European Union hesitated in the face of Russian military assertiveness, leaving them more doubtful than they already were about depending on the West to secure US-backed alternative oil and gas supply lines.

[kennedy7955]

Russia is a lunatic and always has been.

[dimhumb]

"The Russian imperialist attitude has been around since the czars. The economic collapse of the soviet union simply put it on hold for awhile. Now with Russia resurging economicly their imperialist attitude is as well."
Posted by Thomas_Kerr at 09:23 AM : Sep 01, 2008

Imperialist attitudes have been around in many countries (including Georgia by the way - a western politician said in 1920s, the period of the first genocide perpetrated by Georgia on Ossetia). And including the US and many others. And still the attitudes transpire in many countries in softer forms. For example if one of the commentors here exclaims "Who is Russia to warn us about anything?" that means he is some voter of imperialism too, isn''t he? The US warns everybody all over the world. And the Americans get used to it. That is how imperialism begins. It''s deep in our minds after all. So we need to talk with each other, not to demonize each other - Russia and the West (the US).